SM UU Break This Team Mk. II (Week 8 - Hiatus)

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#51
I'm giving it to ridk021 cause:

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Empoleon: 374-444 (100.5 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 1116-1312 (400 - 470.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 296-350 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Wash: 344-408 (113.1 - 134.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

BOP BOP BOP BOP

The Zydawg alone can OHKO 4/6 members of the team, and malt and krook get chunked on switch in, and Suicune manhandles Krook anyways.
 
#58
okay I normally refrain from voting in these competitions because I normally am overly critical of the other submissions, apologies for my competitive nature! But I'd just like to point out that Zydog literally has no ability to switch into this team aside from CC from Cobalion (which does 81% min), it fears a burn from both Empoleon and Rotom-W, it dies to +2 Acid Downpour from Salazzle, it fears a Knock Off/EQ from Krookodile and is set up bait for M-Altaria.

Speaking of M-Atlaria, it can actually beat this core 1v1 if it were in a last Pokemon situation. Furthermore, it avoids the 2HKO from Thousand Arrows on the switch (presuming it will mega evolve straight after).
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Altaria: 154-183 (43.5 - 51.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Altaria-Mega: 133-157 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
maximum damage of ~95.9%

+6 0 Atk Pixilate burned Altaria-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Suicune: 228-268 (56.4 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
This is not a personal attack at any one submitting teams, I just wanted to justify my reasoning for not voting, and I am challenging voters to look closely at submissions, be critical, and try to justify your votes, rather than bandwagoning. For context, I had chosen not to pick Zygarde when countering this team for reasoning stipulated above.

Okay now I feel bad, I will cast a vote. I'm voting for bla bla fat's submission, Mega-Altaria easily has the most opportunities to switch in and set up versus this team (Choice locked Krook, Rotom-W) although Toxic from Empoleon and Iron Head from Cobalion can give it issues, perhaps pairing it with SpD Gliscor would have been a better idea. In this case, Gliscor, is able to check Cobalion, can take +2 Fire Blast from Salazzle, and Empoleon can be stalled through Roost.

edit: Just wanted to add, sure its easy coming up with mons that can sweep teams, but please think about how these cores function against the team, I could have a fantastic set up sweeper for a future submission, but what use it is if it cannot set up.
 
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#59
okay I normally refrain from voting in these competitions because I normally am overly critical of the other submissions, apologies for my competitive nature! But I'd just like to point out that Zydog literally has no ability to switch into this team aside from CC from Cobalion (which does 81% min), it fears a burn from both Empoleon and Rotom-W, it dies to +2 Acid Downpour from Salazzle, it fears a Knock Off/EQ from Krookodile and is set up bait for M-Altaria.

Speaking of M-Atlaria, it can actually beat this core 1v1 if it were in a last Pokemon situation. Furthermore, it avoids the 2HKO from Thousand Arrows on the switch (presuming it will mega evolve straight after).
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Altaria: 154-183 (43.5 - 51.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Altaria-Mega: 133-157 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
maximum damage of ~95.9%

+6 0 Atk Pixilate burned Altaria-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Suicune: 228-268 (56.4 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
This is not a personal attack at any one submitting teams, I just wanted to justify my reasoning for not voting, and I am challenging voters to look closely at submissions, be critical, and try to justify your votes, rather than bandwagoning. For context, I had chosen not to pick Zygarde when countering this team for reasoning stipulated above.

Okay now I feel bad, I will cast a vote. I'm voting for bla bla fat's submission, Mega-Altaria easily has the most opportunities to switch in and set up versus this team (Choice locked Krook, Rotom-W) although Toxic from Empoleon and Iron Head from Cobalion can give it issues, perhaps pairing it with SpD Gliscor would have been a better idea. In this case, Gliscor, is able to check Cobalion, can take +2 Fire Blast from Salazzle, and Empoleon can be stalled through Roost.

edit: Just wanted to add, sure its easy coming up with mons that can sweep teams, but please think about how these cores function against the team, I could have a fantastic set up sweeper for a future submission, but what use it is if it cannot set up.
There's actually something I've been wondering about in relation to the topic of how the cores we submit function against the team of the week and how the cores function against the rest of the meta, and now seems like decent time to bring up my question so bear with me as I ramble on a little bit.

Now, I understand that the majority of mons have some degree of flexibility in the sets they run and that it would be very difficult, if not outright impossible to have just two pokemon that can beat all the viable possible sets a team of six could run, but I find the line between having a core that breaks a team and one that simply Cteams it to be a bit blurry. To try and explain what I mean a bit better I'll use my recent core as an example.

After I had picked out Sceptile and Tentacruel and ran some calcs to be sure they handled everything, I found myself asking two questions:
1. Should I run Iron Tail over Dragon Claw on Sceptile for the sake of being able to hit MAlt and beat the team in question more reliably?
2. Should I replace Tentacruel with something else since it fails to stop a MAlt carrying DD+EQ?

The first choice was easy enough to make because Grass+Ground+(shaky accuracy) Steel coverage seemed lackluster and would forfeit the cores only shot at doing anything to a Latias, even though that wasn't something the core had to handle.
But the Tentacruel issue kinda stuck with me for awhile, on the one hand DD MAlt with EQ isn't terribly uncommon and ruined the core, on the other hand however Tentacruel could beat TSR's MAlt and had some decent defensive synergy with Sceptile while providing some utility to boot.

Ultimately I decided to stick with Tenta since it did what it was required to do for this weeks project, but it's left me questioning if it's okay for cores to have this kind of issue of being able to beat the team in question but lose to some of the other sets commonly run by the mons on said team?

Again I know you can't cover all the bases with just two pokemon and I'm not asking for any kind of change in the rules, it's just something that I've been thinking about lately and I wanted to get it off my chest and maybe get some other opinions.

Oh, and just so this post isn't just a long winded rant, I'm voting for bla bla fat's core.
 
#60
okay I normally refrain from voting in these competitions because I normally am overly critical of the other submissions, apologies for my competitive nature! But I'd just like to point out that Zydog literally has no ability to switch into this team aside from CC from Cobalion (which does 81% min), it fears a burn from both Empoleon and Rotom-W, it dies to +2 Acid Downpour from Salazzle, it fears a Knock Off/EQ from Krookodile and is set up bait for M-Altaria.
I feel like this paragraph is pretty pointless, Terrakion from the core you posted suffers from the same problem too but does that make it bad?. I might be missing something here so if you explain it with more detail it would be nice. I agree with the rest of the post tho the last mon situation with M-Altaria seems like a nitpick lol. Just an opinion.
 
#61
I feel like this paragraph is pretty pointless, Terrakion from the core you posted suffers from the same problem too but does that make it bad?. I might be missing something here so if you explain it with more detail it would be nice. I agree with the rest of the post tho the last mon situation with M-Altaria seems like a nitpick lol. Just an opinion.
if you read my post, Terrakion comes in on the one mon that forces out Amoonguss, it also provides the rocks that pressure said 'mon.

edit: I am sincerely sorry it appears I am attacking your post, I by no means have said my core is fantastic or better in comparison to your own. I guess this is more a critic on what the basis of submitting our cores should be, as stipulated above by CodeRed23, are we submitting a two mon core that has the best chance of shutting down this team on its own? or, is this a two mon core that does the most work when supported by a team?
 
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#63
just to clarify we're talking about two-mon cores that can do the most work when supported by a team, so you can just assume rocks are up and that you can pivot about (EDIT: Within reason) etc. You still need to find you own opportunities to set up, however.

Also, in regards to CodeRed23's question, the core of two mons doesn't need to be able to also take on EQ malt, for instance. No core is flawless, they all have their weaknesses. Just as long as the core can feasibly work together on a team (e.g., not Blissey+Azelf, or Quagsire+any mon that will never be a good choice for stall to use), the submission is fine. As for the point with Iron Tail over Dragon Claw on Sceptile, think about it for a moment: Would you ever run SD Sceptile without Dragon Claw in the current meta for any reason? If it's justifiable, you can probably submit it. However, if a Pokemon in a submission is running a completely suboptimal ability or spread or something just because it fares better against that specific team, that would definitely qualify as counterteaming.
 
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#64
just to clarify we're talking about two-mon cores that can do the most work when supported by a team, so you can just assume rocks are up and that you can pivot about etc. You still need to find you own opportunities to set up, however.

Also, in regards to CodeRed23's question, the core of two mons doesn't need to be able to also take on EQ malt, for instance. No core is flawless, they all have their weaknesses. Just as long as the core can feasibly work together on a team (e.g., not Blissey+Azelf, or Quagsire+any mon that will never be a good choice for stall to use), the submission is fine. As for the point with Iron Tail over Dragon Claw on Sceptile, think about it for a moment: Would you ever run SD Sceptile without Dragon Claw in the current meta for any reason? If it's justifiable, you can probably submit it. However, if a Pokemon in a submission is running a completely suboptimal ability or spread or something just because it fares better against that specific team, that would definitely qualify as counterteaming.
Alright, thank you for the clarification. I suppose I've just been over thinking the effectiveness of my cores and trying to hard to cover as many sets as possible, which probably explains why I have such a difficult time with team building now that I think about.
 
#65
I'm really bad at remembering friday is a day that exists whoops.

This was a close race, but this week's winner was ridk021! Give him a round of applause!

Votes Breakdown (The formatting for this changes every week):
ridk021: 5
bla bla fat: 4
CodeRed23: 1

For the upcoming week, I'm gonna submit one of my own teams. This may seem familiar to some of you from TSR's Teambuilding Competition, and this is because it's a slightly edited version of that team (And also a slightly edited description)! So, let's go ahead and smash all my hard work with sets of two mons, eh?


Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Facade
- Earthquake

Rotom-Wash @ Psychium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Dream Eater

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Roar

Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Play Rough

Zygarde-10% @ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Toxic


So, I've had the idea of building around Z-Dream Eater Rotom+Altaria (A core built around overwhelming teams with Amoon as their Malt check by luring and OHKOing it after rocks with Rotom). So, going off from that I added rocks pert to help with Electrics, Weavile, and Scizor a bit, then added Scarf Infernape to further assure that I'd have as few issues with Scizor and Weavile as possible. I added Klefki for speed control and spikes support since both of those really help this team, with toxic to assist versus Mega Latias somewhat, and I finally added Zygarde-10% due to its ability to RK Rotom and also because it's a moderately fast mon which benefits greatly from spikes.

Submissions are due Wednesday, October 18, at 7:00 PM GMT -5!
 
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#66

Well I used this core because the team really can’t do much against it, Celebi and Gliscor complement each other very well and versus this team they can put a ton of work
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Earth Power

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 248 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Roost
Celebi takes cares of Rotom-W, Swampert and Klefki (thanks to Earth Power which can 2HKO it). Whenever Klefki comes in, it just invites a free switch in for Celebi to fire off an Earth Power which the team doesn’t really have an answer for it since the only non-grounded mon (Rotom-W) is weak to Celebi’s STAB.

Gliscor deals with the rest of offensive mons, M-Altaria, Infernape and Zygarde-10%. Both Infernape and Zygarde-10% get shut down by Gliscor, Zygarde-10%’s Outrage can’t 2HKO Gliscor thanks to it’s defensive bulk. Gliscor can switch in safely on M-Altaria since it’s need to DD 3 times in order to have a chance to 2HKO it, Gliscor can force it out with SD which can 2HKO after with a Facade or Earthquake.
Celebi
252+ SpA Celebi Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Klefki: 204-240 (64.3 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Altaria-Mega: 129-153 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Gliscor
252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Outrage vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 166-196 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Facade vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 124-147 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal

+2 252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Facade vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 166-196 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

+2 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Altaria-Mega: 190-225 (65.2 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Altaria-Mega: 177-209 (60.8 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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#67

Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Facade
- Earthquake
- Roost

Magneton @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Mega-Altaria and Magneton form a good offensive core, since Magneton traps Steel-types that can stop M-Altaria sweep, and it's indisputably the best teammate for it, dealing with Klefki and other Steel-types. Magneton can also threaten Mega-Altaria with a STAB super effective Flash Cannon. In return, Altaria can stomach Fire and Fighting types attack from Infernape aimed at Magneton, and can switch on Swampert hits if Altaria are not mega-evolved, and due to Facade, it doesn't have to worry about burns or annoying things like. However, Mega-Altaria needs to be careful when switching in a Thousand Arrows by Zydog, being 2HKOed.
 
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TSR

dead blue
is a Tiering Contributor
#68
reserving (TSpikes) Nidoking + Mega Sharpedo



Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam


So first thing I noticed about the team in question here is that it's Offense with neither a hazard remover OR a grounded Poison, so it's just asking to get eaten alive by Toxic Spikes. Nidoking itself can also do a number to this team over the course of a game, backed up by good hazard control and perhaps VoltTurn support it can get in safely, primarily against Altaria and Klefki and start wreaking some havoc. Protect users in conjunction with TSpikes is one of the oldest tricks in the book, and Sharpedo is no exception, as it greatly appreciates the constant chip vs Altaria and Swampert. Shark only needs a bit of chip vs offensive Rotom to power through it with Crunch, as it's a roll in its favor after only a single round of Stealth Rock damage (252 Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Wash: 195-231 (80.9 - 95.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock). Scarf Infernape and Zydog will likely be some decently threatening mons to the offense that this core would likely be found on, but thanks to Toxic Spikes, Sharpedo can do a decent job of just waiting them out until it's in a prime position to sweep.
 
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#69
Bringing back an old ORAS core for this week.


Aggron-Mega @ Aggronite
Ability: Filter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Curse
- Toxic
- Rest

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Protect
- Wish
- Heal Bell

Maggron and Sylveon made for a rather solid defensive core last gen and while nether have overly enjoyed the meta shifts that SuMo brought about and the Maggron set isn't really seen anymore, they can still be a troublesome duo to deal with as I shall explain in this post, starting with the main muscle.

Aggron: Filter in conjunction with Maggron's fantastic bulk gives it the ability to easily switch into Malt and shrug off a +1 EQ with very little issue, while it's typing lets it come in against Klefki with nothing to worry about. Once safely in Maggron can Curse up just a single time to give itself the extra bulk in needs to reliably beat Zydog and Infernape, forcing the team to either Roar it out with Swampert or wear it down with Rotom-W, nether of which want to be on the receiving end of a Toxic.
Rest is to keep Maggron healthy and burn free should the worst happen and Sylveon gets KO'd before enough damage has been done to ensure victory.

Sylveon: This mons job is mostly to support Maggron through it's standard cleric set while taking on a few of the things it's partner can't, namely Rotom-W and Swampert, both of whom give it very little trouble. Aside from that nether Malt or Zydog can switch into Sylveon and beat it 1v1 due to how strong it's Hyper Voice is, and Protect gives Infernape the problem of getting locked into a move before actually getting to hit anything with it, leaving the team with only Klefki as a solid switchin, which is something Maggron loves to take advantage of.

On a final note I'll point out that with hazards up the pair needs a safe switchin to reliably beat Zygarde, so be mindful of that.
 
#73
I'll toss my vote to TSR as well since TSpikes alone puts in a lot of work against the team, although giving Altaria a max powered Facade sounds mildly terrifying if not done carefully.

Frankly I found this weeks team is just annoyingly well designed when it comes to breaking stuff. Rotom and Infernape make an effective VoltTurn pair and help bypass Zydog's switching in troubles, Klefki and Swampert are a bit of a defensive backbone that can shut down setup mons and stack hazards, and Mega Altaria can just roflstomp stuff because of how potent Fairy+Ground coverage is.
The lack of hazard removal is it's most glaring issue and the lack of a grounded Poison type makes TSpikes (probably) the best shot for a BO or balance team to win in the match up.
 
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