SM UU Viability Ranking Thread Mk. II

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C+-->B-/B

Crobat being C+ is an absolute travesty. This mon sits at a great speed tier of 130 outspeed a huge amount of the unboosted metagame. Sky plate+roost is probably the best set it runs. Being able to spam brave bird over and over again is huge. The SSSS set is no slouch either. It can easily 2HKO bulky sciz with BB followed up by SSSS after rocks. It also has access to taunt, defog(albeit a rubbish defogger) and a key ability in infiltrator to deal with the rash of veil teams being spammed on ladder and in open. It's not without drawbacks however. It doesn't have a way to boost its attack. It's walled by the likes of empo and M-lix, both of which have been seeing increased usage. It's also checked by alomomomomomomola and at risk of being burned from scald even when taunt shuts it down. Also, it's checked by maero and can be pursuit trapped. Even with these weaknesses, i feel crobat's strengths outway its weaknesses
 

Alolan Ninetales: B- to B

Yeah, I think A Tales is due for a raise. In itself, it holds much more utility than just being your typical weather setter / play style lead. While, yes Alolan Ninetales literally carries Aurora Veil Offense on its back, this mon has really solid utility for a Pokemon that does lead such a potent offensive style. Encore is a complete blessing for it, and it stops many set up sweepers right in their tracks, and also in general disrupts offensive and defensive threats to the play style, but what am I doing, that is something you already know, so there has to be something in meta game trends leads to this rise.

That answer lies in the play style it leads itself, which I feel has really picked up its effectiveness in the current meta game. First, there is the rise of Rain, typically manned by Rain Sweepers such as Kingdra and Mega Pert, A Tales not only has the ability to beat those sweepers, but also to shut down Rain has a play style. Typically, while Alolan Ninetales does have to get a free switch in to those, A Veil can often afford to sack something. Klefki is also rather ill fated vs Aurora Veil teams, with a staple such as Xurkitree turning it into complete set up fodder with the ZHypno set.

To illustrate why Alolan Ninetales must rise, we must see what has changed in the meta for it. First off, it does like how scarf Lati is so popular regardless, that is a free Aurora Veil up, and it can ensue to encore it into something like Defog, which creates set up opportunities for the team, even if the Veil is then gone. Second, it is a solid answer to Weavile, which has risen in popularity as of late, and the bulky waters that have been on the rise, such as Jellicent, Suicune, Empoleon, and Mantine, are either prone to getting weakened by Alolan Ninetales or turn themselves into complete set up bait for the rest of the team. Ninetales finds it very easy in this meta to allow its teammates set up opportunities. Something I have liked using on A Veil teams is Gliscor, because it is such a nice blanket check to the playstyle's weaknesses and still gives the team rocks, and as such helps Ninetales with its rather ailing weaknesses. But, with the rise of all these bulky waters, Ninetales can pretty easily get up Aurora Veil and still weaken or create set up opportunities. This mon offers incredible support in this meta and its really worth noting how well it performs just in general. The speed tier it hits also easily allows it to outpace a lot of the meta and easily set up Aurora Veil, making it very ideal, especially in the current meta game. Its defensive utility is pretty underrated, even though Ice-Fairy is pretty bad typing on paper, it offers a really nice immunity in Dragon, which is always nice to make Hydreigon or Lati think twice. It has extremely solid Sp Def and in this meta I cannot stress how useful that is, with it being able to usually at least eat up a Xurk T Bolt, easily eating up Lati's hits and more, it offers more utility on the defensive side than one would think.

I think A Veil has become so strong in the meta game with Xurkitree and Hawlucha notably, but I think the main thing that creates a perfect trio is A Tales. I could argue for a Hawlucha rise as well, as that thing really just takes advantage of A Tales's support and can sweep way easier than it should.

Overall, Aurora Veil Offense has become really strong, and Alolan Ninetales should absolutely not just because of the solid rise of A Veil, but also because of its ability to dunk on rain, defensive utility, and overall ability to find ways to aid its teammates in set up opportunities. In the meta it finds doing just that easier than ever, and with the aid of some teammates, it easily carries a potent play style and makes it strong.

TL;DR: A Veil Offense has rose and A Tales finds it much easier to help its teammates find set up opportunities in this meta.

And do strongly consider Hawlucha to B, that thing is pretty amazing.
 

eaglehawk

once known as smogon gay baby #4
My nominations

Aurorus to C
Sandslash-A to C

These two Pokemon go hand-in-hand when playing Aurora Veil, and I think these two Pokemon are much better suited for an offensive playstyle than Ninetales-Alola.

Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Blizzard
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic

Sandslash-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aurora Veil
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head
- Icicle Crash

The whole premise comes off as this. Aurorus is primarily meant to set Hail and die (and put up SR if possible). Sandslash sets up a super-fast Aurora Veil because of Slush Rush and has the added benefit of being able to Spin away Hazards (always good for Offense teams). I personally think that these two together generate more momentum due to their disposable nature.
 

esche

AKA Wang Fire
is a Tiering Contributor
eaglehawk said:
My nominations

Aurorus to C
Sandslash-A to C
These two Pokemon go hand-in-hand when playing Aurora Veil, and I think these two Pokemon are much better suited for an offensive playstyle than Ninetales-Alola.

Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Blizzard
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic

Sandslash-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aurora Veil
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head
- Icicle Crash

The whole premise comes off as this. Aurorus is primarily meant to set Hail and die (and put up SR if possible). Sandslash sets up a super-fast Aurora Veil because of Slush Rush and has the added benefit of being able to Spin away Hazards (always good for Offense teams). I personally think that these two together generate more momentum due to their disposable nature.
i dont see the point in dedicating 2 team slots for setting up aurora veil if you can get it in 1 with ninetales-a. sure, you might also get up rocks in the process but is it really worth it instead of packing a reliable rocker that is not utterly useless outside of setting rocks and hail? aurorus already wastes hail turns setting up rocks, reducing the number of available turns to set up aurora veil, and relying on sandslash to set up veil afterwards makes this strategy easier to play around:

1) stalling out hail turns becomes an option for the opponent, at some point forcing the veil player to hard switch into sandslash, which without veil up is rather frail and therefore vulnerable to not being able to set up veil at all.
2) this strategy has no options at all vs other weather setters, ninetales-a can at least come in on the opposing weather setter and proceed to set up veil, whereas sandslash becomes utterly useless once hail runs out or an opposing weather setter switches in on it.
3) this strategy will only work once a game with aurorus + sandslash (sacrificing the hail setter early on to get a free switch into the veil setter). ninetales-a, however, can provide a team with veil for more than 8 turns by setting it up again, if played cautiously.
4) rapid spin on sandslash might seem appealing to prevent hazards on your own side but in practice sandslash will just be wasting veil turns doing that while the opponent spams rocks, so nothing gained there.

additionally, sandslash doesn't even provide much offensively bc its weak and cant effectively make use of its doubled speed without an atk boost.

dont get me wrong, this strategy is a good substitute for ninetales-a - in RU and NU where you dont have access to instant hail + veil.
 

Primal Bidoof

formerly googlemaster190
My nominations

Aurorus to C
Sandslash-A to C

These two Pokemon go hand-in-hand when playing Aurora Veil, and I think these two Pokemon are much better suited for an offensive playstyle than Ninetales-Alola.

Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Blizzard
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic

Sandslash-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aurora Veil
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head
- Icicle Crash

The whole premise comes off as this. Aurorus is primarily meant to set Hail and die (and put up SR if possible). Sandslash sets up a super-fast Aurora Veil because of Slush Rush and has the added benefit of being able to Spin away Hazards (always good for Offense teams). I personally think that these two together generate more momentum due to their disposable nature.
I disagree with Auroras And Sandslash-A to C. Ninetales-a sets up aurora veil just fine, you are essentially wasting a pokemon slot using Aurorus and Sandslash-A. Not to mention this isnt really a good combo in uu, even sandslash with ninetales, it just doesnt work so well.
 

dingbat

ban all garden sneks
is a Tiering Contributor
Aurorus is thorougly outclassed by Alolan Ninetales despite the latter obviously not having SR (not rlly an issue)

I have seen one person (maybe meeps? Feel free to confirm or deny but I did see that team pre-suspect) utilize a Ninetales/Sandslash combo on one of his teams and I could see spin/veil compression holding some niche along the road if people can successfully utilize that, but as stated above, there's so much opportunity cost to using this and I don't see it getting ranked in the meantime.

Regarding Alolan Muk, I don't necessarily agree that it has gotten worse, although I don't necessarily support it going up either. Muk is a critical part of why balance still (barely) exists because of how important it is in getting rid of or severely weakening core-breaking threats like Latias and Xurk that doesn't have Z-bolt at +3. While I agree that many of the meta defining physical attackers give Muk a bit of trouble especially after a free switch-in, supporting Muk isn't terribly hard to do, especially when balance gives it the perfect partner in Alomomola who can capably check many of those physical attackers while increasing Muk's longevity with Wish support. Finally, regarding EV spread, Muk doesn't rlly need max spDef; I legit ran maybe 80 EVs (252 hp / 124+ atk / 56 spA / 80 spD with -spe or something like that, I ran Fire Blast > Sneak to fuck with Scizor and Forry, also does close to 50 to Cobalion) and it was still able to sufficiently do its role of trapping shit while being a general annoyance to everything else with of Knock Off and Poison Touch.

Dragalge's z-Draco set is definitely C rank worthy; sucks that it folds to a great deal of threats, but at the same time, absolutely none of them are ever going to hard switch into Dragalge either simply due to the fear of getting annihilated by z-Draco.
 
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Yoshizilla315

Tournament Banned
Primarina to A+ (This won't be as quality as I like because I'm on phone lol)

What it Does:
It basically checks everything that's not named Xurkitree or Raikou which is incredible. It has some nice STAB, Water and Fairy, which are very useful in the current meta, especially since Mega Aerodactyl and and Latias. It can also run HP Fire , meaning Scizor has a very hard time getting in against this Pokémon. Let's not mention that with specs, it does around 70% to Scizor with Hydro Pump anyway, which is nothing to mess around with.

TD;LR:
  • Checks a large portion of the meta
  • Good STABs
  • Beats high-ranked Pokémon
  • Wideish movepool
  • Very powerful specs set.
What Pokémon do to it: Essentially, no Pokémon counters this one if you predict correctly. With Hydro Pump, Moonblast, Psychic, and Hidden Power Fire, it's no wonder why this Pokémon doesn't have a switch in. It can also eat a hit or two, which is a great bonus. However, Primarina does have a few checks, being Xurkitree, Raikou, and uh other Pokémon.

TD;LR
  • No Pokémon switches into Primarina, thanks to insane coverage.
  • It can take hits.
  • Has very few checks, mainly electric types.
Conclusion: All in all, Primarina, with the right team support, can be unstoppable. It has the coverage it needs to fit into the meta, and it fits in very well. With virtually no switch in, since, if you try, you're losing about 70% (Mantine loses like 40% lol). However, it does have a couple checks that could pose a threat to Primarina, but that doesn't stop it from being an incredible Pokémon.

Please move this near perfect Pokémon to A+.
 
Seeing Moltres in the same ranking as Persian or Pyukumuku is really sad, especially when it has a great matchup against top tier threats like Scizor, Cobalion, Krookodile, Infernape, etc. Its hazard weak but also can (and should) run defog for itself and tends to beat most of the hazard setters in the tier if it switches into them before rocks, like last gen- Coba, Celebi, Infernape, Hippo, Krook, Mamo, Klefki, Steelix, Forry, Donphan Chesnaught etc- some of the mons like Krook might run stone edgeor super-effective coverage of some sort but that seems to have lowered in usage this gen a bit with z-iron tail options etc. (This is running the 252hp 252 speed timid set). Defensive Krook also gets pressure stalled when burned and cant win with stone edge anyway.

Flame Body is also quite good, while it doesnt have the option of defog it puts a lot of strain on u-turners and physical attackers in general with a decent physical typing and a threat to burn at any time simply by switching in, which can steal matches pretty nicely. Obviously its better than talonflame for this since it actually has physical bulk. Its not its best set, but having the threat of any Moltres potentially being Flame Body is a small benefit to the Pressure set also.

Air Slash + Will-o-wisp is a really decent mono-attacking set for a fast defensive role, and flyinium-Z can be used on the flame body sets to allow it to switch into CB knock offs from scizors and whatever else with greater ease. Fire STAB + Z Hurricane + Toxic is another option for a more offensive flame body set and pretty much nothing from the upper tiers is wanting to switch into these moves- even stuff like Suicune is going to regret switching in if its going to get outsped and hit by poison.

Moltres still has all the same flaws as before, which revolve around its 4x rock weakness, but with the mons currently sitting at the top of the tier im surprised it cant move up. The mons it beats are glue mons for like every team right now, Scizor and Coba in particular, so it always can put in some work as a defogger and defensive pivot. It requires a lot of team support but vs some teams with the wrong hazard setters it is totally self-sufficient. So I want to suggest Moltres to C+ at least. Its more relevant than pretty much the entirety of the C tier atm.
 
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Yoshizilla315

Tournament Banned
Seeing Moltres in the same ranking as Persian or Pyukumuku is really sad, especially when it has a great matchup against top tier threats like Scizor, Cobalion, Krookodile, Infernape, etc. Its hazard weak but also can run defog for itself and tends to beat most of the hazard setters in the tier if it switches into them before rocks, like last gen- Coba, Celebi, Infernape, Hippo, Krook, Mamo, Klefki, Steelix, Forry, Donphan Chesnaught etc- some of the mons like Krook might run stone edgeor super-effective coverage of some sort but that seems to have lowered in usage this gen a bit with z-iron tail options etc. (This is running the 252hp 252 speed timid set). Defensive Krook also gets pressure stalled when burned and cant win with stone edge anyway.

Flame Body is also quite good, while it doesnt have the option of defog it puts a lot of strain on u-turners and physical attackers in general with a decent physical typing and a threat to burn at any time simply by switching in, which can steal matches pretty nicely. Obviously its better than talonflame for this since it actually has physical bulk. Its not its best set, but having the threat of any Moltres potentially being Flame Body is a small benefit to the Pressure set also.

Air Slash + Will-o-wisp is really decent mono-attacking sets for a fast defensive role, and flyinium-Z can be used on the flame body sets to allow it to switch into CB knock offs from scizors and whatever else with greater ease. Fire STAB + Z Hurricane + Toxic is another option for a more offensive flame body set and pretty much nothing from the upper tiers is wanting to switch into these moves- even stuff like Suicune is going to regret switching in if its going to get outsped and hit by poison.

Moltres still has all the same flaws as before, which revolve around its 4x rock weakness, but with the mons currently sitting at the top of the tier im surprised it cant move up. The mons it beats are glue mons for like every team right now, Scizor and Coba in particular, so it always can put in some work as a defogger and defensive pivot. It requires a lot of team support but vs some teams with the wrong hazard setters it is totally self-sufficient. So I want to suggest Moltres to C+ at least. Its more relevant than pretty much the entirety of the C tier atm.
Moltres is not relevant at all right now, it's only niche I could see is on sun. Rocks are everywhere right now so I'm confused... running defog for itself means nothing because you lose a move slot + you already lost 50%. Why don't you focus on the higher tiers rather than the irrelevant lower ones, which need heavy team support to be effective.
 
Rocks have always been "everywhere". Moltres barely has any 4mss at all with good dual STAB or single STAB options and we're allowed to make any suggestions we want. I dont mind if people disagree to a discussion point but at least make an effort
 

Yoshizilla315

Tournament Banned
Rocks have always been "everywhere". Moltres barely has any 4mss at all and we're allowed to make any suggestions we want. I dont mind if people disagree to a discussion point but at least make an effort
I get what you're saying but it's very pointless. So what if rocks have been everywhere forever? That makes your case worse, especially since Moltres can't switch in twice, unless you have the opportunity to roost which is kinda rare.

Moltres doesn't even check Cobalion since it Volt Switches out. Sure it beats scizor, but you have to remember there's another 5 Pokémon on the team which support Scizor, such as bulky waters, which Moltres doesn't like. Sure, Moltres does commonly Hidden Power Grass, but Tentacruel and Suicune aren't taking anything from that.

Also, Moltres doesn't enjoy Pokémon like Crawdaunt, which will be way more popular once Conk is banned, Primarina, Mega Aerodactyl, Raikou, and many other popular Pokémon in the current meta, including Mega Swampert in the rain.

All in all, you just can't use Moltres right now since a lot of popular Pokémon beat it, and it has a hard time facing teams when rocks are set up, as well as not doing enough damage to some Pokémon.
 
Rocks have always been "everywhere". Moltres barely has any 4mss at all with good dual STAB or single STAB options and we're allowed to make any suggestions we want. I dont mind if people disagree to a discussion point but at least make an effort
If you want to bump up a Pokemon with 4x Stealth Rock weakness from C- to C+, you need to at least post some high level replays of Moltres in action.
 
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TD;LR
  • No Pokémon switches into Primarina, thanks to insane coverage.
  • It can take hits.
  • Has very few checks, mainly electric types.
Please move this near perfect Pokémon to A+.
No switch ins is an overstatement. Blissey, Empoleon, AV Slowking can all switch in regardless of rocks, and can either Toxic it, Knock Off it's specs in Empoleon's case, or force it out with Psyshock in Slowking's case. You also don't mention it's lacklustre speed and physical bulk, which are fairly significant flaws. Not disagreeing with this nom, but I think you're over exaggerating a little bit.
also its TL;DR bop


Moltres is not relevant at all right now, it's only niche I could see is on sun. Rocks are everywhere right now so I'm confused... running defog for itself means nothing because you lose a move slot + you already lost 50%. Why don't you focus on the higher tiers rather than the irrelevant lower ones, which need heavy team support to be effective.
The VR is supposed to be a ranking of all the mons that can viably be used in the tier, and should include niche picks like the ones in C rank. Ranking them correctly isn't irrelevant, and does warrant discussion.
 

Yoshizilla315

Tournament Banned
No switch ins is an overstatement. Blissey, Empoleon, AV Slowking can all switch in regardless of rocks, and can either Toxic it, Knock Off it's specs in Empoleon's case, or force it out with Psyshock in Slowking's case. You also don't mention it's lacklustre speed and physical bulk, which are fairly significant flaws. Not disagreeing with this nom, but I think you're over exaggerating a little bit.
also its TL;DR bop

The VR is supposed to be a ranking of all the mons that can viably be used in the tier, and should include niche picks like the ones in C rank. Ranking them correctly isn't irrelevant, and does warrant discussion.
Yeah you're right that was an overstatement but there are very few! Also yeah I was kinda abbot in the wrong with the moltres thing but either way I've been on phone and I suck at writing on here lol.
 
Primarina to A+ (This won't be as quality as I like because I'm on phone lol)
What it Does: It basically checks everything that's not named Xurkitree or Raikou which is incredible. It has some nice STAB, Water and Fairy, which are very useful in the current meta, especially since Mega Aerodactyl and and Latias. It can also run HP Fire , meaning Scizor has a very hard time getting in against this Pokémon. Let's not mention that with specs, it does around 70% to Scizor with Hydro Pump anyway, which is nothing to mess around with.

TD;LR:
  • Checks a large portion of the meta
  • Good STABs
  • Beats high-ranked Pokémon
  • Wideish movepool
  • Very powerful specs set.
What Pokémon do to it: Essentially, no Pokémon counters this one if you predict correctly. With Hydro Pump, Moonblast, Psychic, and Hidden Power Fire, it's no wonder why this Pokémon doesn't have a switch in. It can also eat a hit or two, which is a great bonus. However, Primarina does have a few checks, being Xurkitree, Raikou, and uh other Pokémon.

TD;LR
  • No Pokémon switches into Primarina, thanks to insane coverage.
  • It can take hits.
  • Has very few checks, mainly electric types.
Conclusion: All in all, Primarina, with the right team support, can be unstoppable. It has the coverage it needs to fit into the meta, and it fits in very well. With virtually no switch in, since, if you try, you're losing about 70% (Mantine loses like 40% lol). However, it does have a couple checks that could pose a threat to Primarina, but that doesn't stop it from being an incredible Pokémon.

Please move this near perfect Pokémon to A+.
I'd like to add on to what Notily said a bit, Prima's ability to smash through stuff is very impressive but it's not exactly grabbing free kills whenever it comes in. I'm not completely against it going to A+, however it's not nearly as ''near perfect'' as you claim.

First off is it's horrible physical defensive, unless you actually invest into it Prima's bulk you're 2HKO'd by the majority physical attackers in the tier after rocks, so switching in is rather difficult.

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 133-157 (44.1 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 130-154 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 132-156 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 156-185 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 207-244 (68.7 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 158-186 (52.4 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


You basically need another water type along side Prima to actually handle the things that a water type should be able too.

Also, in addition to the mons Notily mentioned I would like to add a few more, Recycle Snorlax and Spdef Sylveon can both stall out Prima's Hydro Pumps and take Moonblasts well enough to allow them return fire between turns of healing, bulky Celebi can also recover off the damage from anything outside of max roll Moonblasts (it does like 57% at max) and threaten Prima out with Giga Drain.
And finally, it comes with the same weaknesses of any choice locked mon of having to engage in mind games and getting screwed over by anything with Protect or a fast Substitute.

Is it a great nuke? Definitely! Is it near perfect? Not at all, each playstyle has a decent number of options for dealing with it either defensively or offensively. It's unquestionably effective but I wouldn't put it in the same league as Mega-Swampert who can completely plow through teams in rain while still having fantastic bulk, or Krookodile who serves as one of the best revenge killers in UU.

On a side note, RestTalk Prima is pretty decent middle ground between bulky water and offensive threat and it should get a bit attention then it currently does.
 

Yoshizilla315

Tournament Banned
I'd like to add on to what Notily said a bit, Prima's ability to smash through stuff is very impressive but it's not exactly grabbing free kills whenever it comes in. I'm not completely against it going to A+, however it's not nearly as ''near perfect'' as you claim.

First off is it's horrible physical defensive, unless you actually invest into it Prima's bulk you're 2HKO'd by the majority physical attackers in the tier after rocks, so switching in is rather difficult.

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 133-157 (44.1 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 130-154 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 132-156 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 156-185 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 207-244 (68.7 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 158-186 (52.4 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


You basically need another water type along side Prima to actually handle the things that a water type should be able too.

Also, in addition to the mons Notily mentioned I would like to add a few more, Recycle Snorlax and Spdef Sylveon can both stall out Prima's Hydro Pumps and take Moonblasts well enough to allow them return fire between turns of healing, bulky Celebi can also recover off the damage from anything outside of max roll Moonblasts (it does like 57% at max) and threaten Prima out with Giga Drain.
And finally, it comes with the same weaknesses of any choice locked mon of having to engage in mind games and getting screwed over by anything with Protect or a fast Substitute.

Is it a great nuke? Definitely! Is it near perfect? Not at all, each playstyle has a decent number of options for dealing with it either defensively or offensively. It's unquestionably effective but I wouldn't put it in the same league as Mega-Swampert who can completely plow through teams in rain while still having fantastic bulk, or Krookodile who serves as one of the best revenge killers in UU.

On a side note, RestTalk Prima is pretty decent middle ground between bulky water and offensive threat and it should get a bit attention then it currently does.
Eh I guess I am over exaggerating a bit (I like marketing lol) but yeah all the stuff you say is true! When I get home later this week I intend on making a better post on moving Prima to A+. Thanks for the feedback!
 

Mandibuzz B --> B-
This Pokemon isn't good anymore. A lot of Pokemon in the higher ranks get free switches in onto this Pokemon, such as Terrakion, Mega Steelix, Suicune, and Xurkitree. I think Mantine outclasses Mandibuzz as a Defogger, because of its superior defensive typing and its natural special bulk. Its huge set up bait to Rain Dance users and Alolan Ninetails, and gets killed by so many things in this metagame, I think that Mandibuzz would be more suited in B- than B.
 

Mandibuzz B --> B-
This Pokemon isn't good anymore. A lot of Pokemon in the higher ranks get free switches in onto this Pokemon, such as Terrakion, Mega Steelix, Suicune, and Xurkitree. I think Mantine outclasses Mandibuzz as a Defogger, because of its superior defensive typing and its natural special bulk. Its huge set up bait to Rain Dance users and Alolan Ninetails, and gets killed by so many things in this metagame, I think that Mandibuzz would be more suited in B- than B.
I agree that mandibuzz isn't too hot in the meta right now, as fairy, ice and electric weaknesses can hold it back quite a bit, but it does do decently against defensive/balance teams with a fairly fast taunt, recovery and status moves, while taking a hit from some of the offensive mons they might run (like krook) to check the offensive nature of the meta. I'd still second the drop though.
 
I'm against the drop of Mandibuzz.

Suicune can't really switch in if it's the common Vincune because it hates losing Leftovers and Steelix just gets whittled and loses its hazards so it can't win unless it has Toxic which can even be Taunted.

Also you can run U-Turn to keep momentum on more balanced teams or teams that have offensive cores.

B isn't necessarily a high rank and to me when you get to the Bs and Cs the minus becomes pretty subjective and it's more important to see if a Pokémon rises or falls.

While Mandibuzz may be marginally worse with Xurkitree and I agree Terrakion seems to be rising in usage, it's main role as a Defogger that can switch into most hazard users has not changed. It also has very above average physical bulk which with Foul Play lets it counter S/A threats like Scizor and Swampert Mega and Krookodile and Gliscor to a significant extent.
 

A up to A+

A+ is looking extremely vacant right now, especially now that Mega Swampert is gone. Xurkitree basically has no hard counters outside of Blissey, which makes Xurkitree + Cobalion cores superb because Cobalion breaks through Xurkitree's one hard counter. Seriously, nothing else in S through A- switches in on Xurkitree at all except for Latias and Celebi which are beaten by Tail Glow sets if Xurkitree is paired with webs. Speaking of webs, Tail Glow Xurkitree is an absolute nightmare on them since it solves Xurkitree's weakness to offense while being stupidly powerful as ever. And Beast Boost continues to add on to Xurkitree's power. Being an Electric type that beats Swampert is also neat. I also see no problem with running a Scarf set to outspeed Mega Pidgeot right off the bat.


A up to A+

Again, A+ has basically no Pokemon and Weavile is a clear cut above most of the rest of A. The Conkeldurr ban did Weavile justice, as did the departure of Mega Swampert. It's basically a faster Krookodile in a way. It completely smashes Latias into oblivion and outspeeds practically everything (and threatening Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Beedrill with Ice Shard, as both of them are weak to Rocks) in the metagame. Almost all of its counters are crippled by Knock Off, therefore hindering their roles, bar Cobalion and Terrakion if they're packing Z-Moves. It can also be really effective on Spikes, especially since Weavile beats all of the tier's relevant offensive hazard removal. Its good matchup against offense and to an extent stall is enough to push it out of A IMO.


C+ up to B/B+

I've been using this a bit lately and the playstyle of webs is much higher than C+. Webs is what turns Tail Glow Xurkitree into an absolute monster. Shuckle is EXTREMELY bulky, if you mix its defensive stats it has 125 HP/125 Defenses. Shuckle can take almost any attack. It will almost always be able to set up Sticky Web and Stealth Rock, just as long as the opponent doesn't lead off with a Taunter/Specs Primarina. Encore is great for granting free switches. Tail Glow Manaphy makes Shuckle even better, now that there's another Sticky Web abuser in the tier.
 
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A up to A+

A+ is looking extremely vacant right now, especially now that Mega Swampert is gone. Xurkitree basically has no hard counters outside of Blissey, which makes Xurkitree + Cobalion cores superb because Cobalion breaks through Xurkitree's one hard counter. Seriously, nothing else in S through A- switches in on Xurkitree at all except for Latias and Celebi which are beaten by Tail Glow sets if Xurkitree is paired with webs. Speaking of webs, Tail Glow Xurkitree is an absolute nightmare on them since it solves Xurkitree's weakness to offense while being stupidly powerful as ever. And Beast Boost continues to add on to Xurkitree's power. Being an Electric type that beats Swampert is also neat. I also see no problem with running a Scarf set to outspeed Mega Pidgeot right off the bat.


A up to A+

Again, A+ has basically no Pokemon and Weavile is a clear cut above most of the rest of A. The Conkeldurr ban did Weavile justice, as did the departure of Mega Swampert. It's basically a faster Krookodile in a way. It completely smashes Latias into oblivion and outspeeds practically everything (and threatening Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Beedrill with Ice Shard, as both of them are weak to Rocks) in the metagame. Almost all of its counters are crippled by Knock Off, therefore hindering their roles, bar Cobalion and Terrakion if they're packing Z-Moves. It can also be really effective on Spikes, especially since Weavile beats all of the tier's relevant offensive hazard removal. Its good matchup against offense and to an extent stall is enough to push it out of A IMO.
This is kind of a shitpost but I can't really tell that's xurkitree (I do support a rise btw).

Anyways, I'm actually gonna say Weavile to S right now. This thing is meta-defining imo, The loss of Mega Swampert only helps it because Mega Swampert outsped and OHKOed. Now, we truly have just about nothing to tank this thing's attacks. Scizor has to played very carefully or else it'll get knocked off into oblivion. Not only is it extremely powerful, it also packs tons of utility in its moves. Pursuit, Knock off and especially Ice Shard all have incredible utility. Fightings often have to be careful around low kick (cobalion and terrakion) and knock as well. Overall, this thing is just too much to be out of S rn.
 
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