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All Gens Small Niches

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Typhlito, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Spooky Dawg
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    So in this thread I would like to talk about pokemon in various gens that had a small niche at what they do. However that niche is not enough to give it much use in OU or even UU if you want to include that in this thread as well. Heres an example.

    Camerupt

    [​IMG]

    Overall it isnt very good in the ou metagame. It has a huge water weakness that pokemon like suicune can abuse. Its incredibly slow and its not very bulky. However due to its ground typing, it is the only fire pokemon that isnt negatively affected by ttar's sand. It can probably make a decent scizor counter. Its also able to take rock and grass type moves neutrally and is immune to electric types. Even with those perks, its still never seen because its still generally a waste of a pokemon spot. As much as I would like it to be, fire types bar heatran and infernape had a harder time in ou because of their common weaknesses.
  2. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Rapid Spin Tentacruel in GSC. It's an amazing spinner, able to come in on both Cloy and Forry extremely easily, and to boot it's immune to Poison (although it does struggle to get past Ghosts). It's good for little else, though, as its Poison typing renders it unable to counter Grounds and its Water typing renders it weak to the Electrics that already combat Starmie and Cloyster. Plus it's illegal to use any other cool toys (Haze, Swords Dance, Mirror Coat) in tandem with Rapid Spin.
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  3. Isa

    Isa

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    Kingler in RBY.

    It's the sole user of Swords Dance seen in OU and has the most powerful move in the game, Crabhammer (balanced by awful Special stat, still deals tons of damage though). Not used because of no physical STAB (a 1,5* damage boost to his attacks would wreck), 2HKO'd by special STAB attacks or non-STAB Thunderbolts, and fairly slow.
  4. Tomahawk

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    What exactly is Camerupt's niche? I assume you're talking about DPP OU here. I don't really see your points: Heatran is also unaffected by sand, it is also a Scizor counter, also can take Rock and Grass, and while it isn't immune to Electric it still is a better Electric-type mons counter in general, since Camerupt has terrible 70 / 70 / 70 defenses and is hit hard even by a neutral unSTABed moves.

    Anyhow, interesting thread idea. Here's one:

    [​IMG]
    Toxicroak @ Life Orb
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Cross Chop
    - Sucker Punch
    - Taunt / Stone Edge

    Now, Toxicroak is mostly inferior to Lucario: worse stats, inferior typing (in most cases), and no Close Combat and a less reliable priority move. However, Toxicroak has its advantages. The main one is Dry Skin, giving it an immunity to Water-type moves. This allows it to set up on bulky Water-types quite easily, and also recover health on a predicted switchin. It also actually allows to set up on the most common Lucario counter on stall: Gyarados, since with Taunt there's nothing Gyarados can do except heal Toxicroak. Also, Toxicroak's Poison typing helps when your team has problems with Toxic Spikes. Even if Toxicroak isn't able to get a hit in, it can still remove them. Finally, there's Sucker Punch. While it has its obvious disadvantages, it has a better typing in some situations. It is still able to hit common revenge killers (Scarf Flygon), and has the advantage of hitting Scarf Rotom-A and Scarf/Mixed Jirachi. While they are able to Trick Toxicroak, they will still have to attack on the second turn so they are either forced out or are KOed anyway. It can also do stuff like OHKO Starmie unboosted.
  5. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Spooky Dawg
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    Oh, I wasnt talking about DPP when I used camerupt as an example. I was talking about ADV. I dont know much about DPP so I wouldnt know what pokemon have niches in that gen. Probably should have been clearer there.
  6. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Fuck you, pay me
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    Oh okay, sorry about that. I assumed you were talking DPP since you mentioned Heatran and Infernape.
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  7. Aerodactyl Legend

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    Magcargo isn't affected by sand either. Not that it's any good though.

    A good example I can think of is Umbreon in DP. Should be UU, but it's not. Its niche is Baton Passing Mean Look (only several can do this), which is good for a BP team. You can also use it on general teams just as an interesting way too trap and kill stuff (you need to get rid of Scizor though).
  8. zfs

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    Solrock in ADV OU fits this category. He's a fantastic counter to standard DD/Taunt Gyara and even to DD Mence with Rock Slide as a 4th move, but has very few other uses. He's also a decent BP pivot, with levitate and his resistances to normal and flying.

    He can run Psych Up against mono-attacker Curselax as well, but that's an even smaller niche.
  9. adv

    adv

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    ADV Cacturne! Good non-HP Fire Cele answer, annoying af Subseeder if it gets in, Sand Veil is funny for the guy using it, and it even gets Spikes if that's what you're into (also Starmie, Cloyster and Claydol obviously can't come in on it so whenever you set a layer, the hazard will deal some damage somewhere). Its cons are that it's hard to switch into most things really because it's so squishy, it's trapped by Dug, and it requires sand and a certain type of team.
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  10. Danilo

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    As the ADV OU Camerupt master,I will talk about the pig's place in the metagame. Basically, it is just a nice Gengar counter for offensive teams that don't want to rely on Snorlax, especially since Lax is getting owned by WoW. Owning electrics is also great because it takes the stress off of lax, or whatever your specially defensive pivot dude is. Booming on Water-types is also great since it paves the way for your mence or ttar later on in the game. Camerupt is p good on certain offensive teams =]
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  11. magic9mushroom

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    Victreebel.

    Victreebel itself qualifies here, though. It's got an absolutely fantastic movepool (Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, Swords Dance, Wrap, Body Slam, and Razor Leaf are all moves legions of Pokemon would kill for), and the attacking stats to hit hard on both sides... so why isn't it used? Its typing. Grass/Poison is one of the worst typings possible in RBY OU; the two most common special types are Ice (usually seen in the form of non-STAB Blizzards) and Psychic (usually seen as STAB Psychics). Victreebel is weak to both, and is 2HKOed by all STAB Psychics and most non-STAB Blizzards. Combined with its somewhat lackluster Speed, it's far too much of a glass cannon. It is, however, one of the best Slowbro counters in existence, and is exceedingly hard to switch into thanks to its unpredictability; Swords Dance + Hyper Beam is very scary on something that Starmie can't switch into, and Stun Spore + Wrap is also absolutely deadly (it's a mini-Dragonite in this respect).
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
  12. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    I think we're getting away from mons with niches and are just mentioning underused mons at this point. If we're to pick narrow niche mons in RBY, I'd probably go with Machamp for the Normal destruction, or something like Ninetales that figures into the lead game and outspeeds/hammers Egg/Jynx. Or, more viably, Hypno, who is mostly outclassed in every way by Alakzam except for the fact that Hypno can actually put things to sleep in the lead spot. Or Cloyster, who mostly walls Snorlax/Tauros like nothing else and can Clamp, but is otherwise probably better off replaced by Lapras. Flareon's also cool, it's a physical mon that actually has a STAB move for smashing Exeggutors, which is pretty unique, and furthermore it isn't completely walled by Rocks unlike Zapdos thanks to the FB burn chance.

    Also it's a camel Danilo. Not a pig. Camerupt. Camel.
  13. zfs

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    I feel like ADV OU has a good deal of these. Another one is Hitmontop, who emerged as the premiere counter to Tyraniboah (the famous Sub/Focus Punch/Ice Beam/Crunch set that was a staple of many OU teams after chaos and Jumpman introduced it), with Intimidate, a high special defense, resistance to Crunch, and the ability to easily break Boah's subs with Triple Kick.

    Hitmontop remains a very good check to pretty much every single Tyranitar set, which is itself a solid niche.
  14. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Spooky Dawg
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    Another one I noticed for having a decent niche in ADV is clefable since you cant really counter it well until you find out what set it uses. Although its inferior to blissey as a support/calm mind pokemon, it does at least have some speed. Ttar and blissey wouldnt want to risk switching into a focus punch while suicune doesnt know if it can reliably set up because of the risk of encore. Its sheer versitility is her greatest strength. It would just have to keep its set hidden for as long as possible to make full use of her potential because once its set is discovered, it is easier to deal with.

    In GSC, typhlosion has a niche of being able to hit both skarmory and blissey/snorlax with high damage. It can hit skarm with a powerful fire blast while hitting snorlax/blissey switch ins with a semi reliable dynamic punch. It is able to 2hko both snorlax and blissey with dynamic punch iirc if it manages to land both. The confusion that comes with dynamic punch does help ease the chance of missing though.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  15. Aerodactyl Legend

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    It's not something to risk. No sub to hide behind and you'll either get statused or hit with Body Slam or Earthquake. Those with Cross Chop have a better chance (not against Snorlax though, obviously).
  16. Bedschibaer

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    Hitting both Skarm and Bliss isn't really a small niche in gsc though. Bellyzard, Mixtar, Mixlax, Tentacruel, the list goes on.
    Also i have seen a fire blast Low Kick Rapidash once, that was a pretty cool set and it hits Snorlax reliably.
  17. Jorgen

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    Low kick is mega weak. That's an unSTAB Earthquake coming from 298 Attack against Blissey and Snorlax. It's not doing squat to anything not named Tyranitar.
  18. Bedschibaer

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    Well then it was probably bugged as hell because i'm pretty sure i saw it when PS started hosting a gen 2 ladder. Iirc it was 2hkoing a snorlax, now that i think about it it probably was a known bug.
  19. Royal Flush

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    Double Kick bro
    and even then, it barely scratches Lax. Low Kick on PS is probably using weight mechanics thingy and hitting lax with 120 bp lol


    and Typh will never ever 2hko lax with dynamicpunch where do you guys take these calcs
    Only Machamp is able to 2hko lax (and Marowak after spikes damage iirc)
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  20. Karpi

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    Agh, I was going to post Hitmontop! This also applies to 4th gen, in case anyone was curious or interested. You can also use Poliwrath in 3rd or 4th gen for the same purpose, but it's not QUITE as good.
  21. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Spooky Dawg
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    Ah you're right. Dynamic punch only 3hkos which is pretty iffy considering how often that move misses. I still like it though even though its not the most reliable move.
  22. Jorgen

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    It doesn't even 3HKO. At least, it barely ever 3HKOes. Not to say it isn't a good move to toss out against Lax on the switch (the confusion can always allow KOs where pure damages won't), but on pure damage it's 170-200 per turn, and you need to average 195.667 per turn to 3HKO lax.

    Typhlosion is an okay-ish Sun abuser. It's got the Speed tie with Zapdos and a decent enough Special Attack stat to 3HKO Snorlax in the sun with Fire Blast, and DPunch makes the lives of Ttar and Bliss very difficult, but it fails to do anything substantial to Vap/Cune (very slim chances of 4HKOing both with ThunderPunch, but they both frequently sleep talk anyway so it's w/e, and if you use HP Grass you can get past the odd Rhydon and Quag but fail to 4HKO the bulky waters).
  23. magic9mushroom

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    Marowak can 2HKO without Spikes. Unlikely though.
  24. Adam Lambert

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    Sandslash in RBY (Isa, you forgot this pokemon uses Swords Dance....)
    Not used enough because it faces a lot of competition from the rocks, who have Normal- and Flying-type resists. Above the rocks, however,it outspeeds Exeggutor and Chansey, and has Swords Dance which allows it to clean up later on. Furthermore, Sandslash is countered by a lot of popular OU threats, like Starmie, Lapras, Tauros and so on. All of which beat it.

    Articuno in RBY
    Has the strongest Blizzard in the game, which is huge. Articuno also forms a decent core with Gengar, as mentioned in the RBY synergy forum. Not used because it's so easy to counter, Slowbro, Starmie, Lapras, Chansey, and so on. It also has a common weakness to the Electric-type, which is not exactly a good thing. Jynx and Lapras also pretty much outclass it as for as Ice-types go, and Starmie and Chansey are also better at Freezing.

    Ninetails in RBY
    Very small niche as being an anti-Jynx lead. There are better ways to deal with her, though, like using Gengar who has a faster sleep, or he can just outright explode in her face.
  25. McMeghan

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    RBY
    • Moltres
      Agility + Fire Spin allows it to act as a pseudo-Dragonite to clean games. On the other hand, it has a poor speed and is hard walled by some common Pokémons (Rhydon, Golem, Starmie). Most people are also reluctant to use fire move in a metagame where Freeze is often a deciding game factor that you have to take into consideration. Unlike Zapdos, it can actually cripple its switch-in if you catch a Burn on them with Fire Blast and unlike Dragonite, it has a strong stabbed move to kill weakened Pokémons.

    ADV
    • Alakazam
      Alakazam is basically a way less bulkier Jirachi with less set-up opportunities lacking a Toxic immunity. On the other hand, it can find its way in Special oriented teams thanks to its high speed allowing it to not being outright revenge killed by Dugtrio (still a Speed tie). It can also cripple/beat Blissey either thanks to the use of Trick (which is a rare sight in ADV) or the use of a Rune Protect / Recover moveset.
    • Articuno
      Most people will usually use Zapdos as their primary/secondary special wall but Articuno has the "advantage" to have an Ice typing and a stabbed Ice Beam. This fact alone threatens anything with a Flying type to switch in, along with the few Levitator of the tier such as Flygon. It means that Articuno is one hell of a good spikes abuser with its access to Roar, on top of checking some ADV threats such as Celebi. Zapdos is usually preferred as it can check more dangerous ADV menaces like Metagross.
    • Breloom
      Breloom is basically the only Pokémon who can make use of a priority in ADV with Mach Punch (Quick Attack/Extreme Speed have a poor distribution). With Mach Punch, Breloom will always be able to check a DDTyranitar in a pinch, no matter how much boosts it has under its belt. Its access to Spore is also quite useful. Lack of Rock coverage/terrible bulk means it's usually inferior to Heracross/Medicham.
    • Dragonite
      Dragonite, unlike Salamence, has an access to Thunder to cripple both Skarmory and Milotic/Suicune to enable a sweep later for itself or a teammate. On top of that, it has a far better natural bulk, allowing it to reliably run a Liechi Berry which can come handy in a lot of situations. Its main downside compared to Salamence is its lack of physical coverage (no Rock Slide for Aerodactyl/opposing Salamence) and lack of Speed (Aerodactyl still outspeeds unless you're running Jolly).
    • Houndoom
      Its typing allows it to check a handful of Special Sweepers in ADV such as CM Celebi/Jirachi or Gengar. Its access to Pursuit is its main niche, allowing it to ~reliably removes a Gengar (as well as a Celebi given the situation) for good. It has a pretty bad bulk/defensive typing otherwise and a terrible 4 MMS.
    • Steelix
      Steelix is rarely used due to its lack of good recovery move, "spike weakness" and horrible offensive prowess. On the other hand, its unique typing allows it to check the famous Electric/Ice AND Electric/Grass coverage (granted they're used by Electric typed Pokemons). Coupled with his outstanding physical bulk, Steelix can check some of the most fearsome special attackers in the tier (Raikou, Zapdos, Jolteon) as well as offering some really useful physical resistances, especially against Choice users (Aerodactyl, Metagross, Salamence). Its access to Explosion is also quite useful.

    Will post more Pokémons (Charizard, Jynx, etc) and more niche movesets (Sub Roar Suicune, Sub Endeavor Swampert) in the future~
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
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