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Smeargle (Revamp) [QC 2/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Santuga, Sep 15, 2013.

  1. Santuga

    Santuga

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    QC: 2/3 GP: 0/0

    [Overview]
    • Access to all kind of hazards and Spore make Smeargle one of the best hazard setters in the tier
    • Faster than common hazard setters, putting them to sleep easy
    • Baton Pass + Quiver Dance / Shift Gear
    • Doesn't pack offensive presence
    • RU is well prepared for sleeping inducing moves, Sleep Talk and Lum Berry are everywhere and Smeargle is one of the main reasons why this happens
    • Very likely to get the job done and can support the team mid and late game as well
    [SET]
    name: Hazard Lead
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Spikes
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Whirlwind / Explosion / Rapid Spin / Thunder Wave
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Own Tempo
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • One layer guaranteed unless the opponent has Taunt or multi-hit moves
    • Spore shuts down the opponent's active Pokemon therefore having extra turns to Spike stack
    • Stealth Rock in conjunction with Spikes wear down teams fast
    • Whirlwind provides Smeargle with an answer to set up sweeepers and Substitute users, can phaze out the opponent after being put to sleep, helps to rack up entry hazard damage, and can phaze out spinners on a predicted switch-in
    • Explosion blocks a potencial Rapid Spin and at the same time lets the user bring a check for the opponent's Pokemon safely. while dealing damage in the process, doing a ton to Cryogonal for example, a common spinner in the tier
    • Rapid Spin lets Smeargle get rid of entry hazards against faster and common hazard setter leads, such as Uxie, Qwilfish, and Accelgor, and can be saved for mid and late game to get a surprise Rapid Spin. Nice replacement for Kabutops if you can't afford to run one in your team
    • Thunder Wave slows down Pokemon that like to come in on Spore, such as Sawsbuck, Emboar, and Entei. Ensures Smeargle outspeeds the opponent or the chance of getting full para to set up one extra layer,
    • The goal of this set is to set up as many entry hazards as possible to help out the rest of the team come through. Spore pretty much nullifies a Pokemon on the opposing side, starting off the match with a small edge. When looking at the team preview, you should account for Sap Sipper or Sleep Talk users, seeing as Lum Berry is hard to see beforehand. When facing one of these, one should refrain from using Spore most of the time, because it is very likely that the opposing side will switch in one of the aforementioned Pokemon to take advantage of such a move, therefore double switching or getting up one extra layer is beneficial as opposed to going for the sleep inducing move
    • Although this is set is best used as a lead, Smeargle doesn't perform badly outside of the lead position as long as it has its Focus Sash intact. Volt Switch and U-Turn users, such as Rotom-C and Braviary, really come in handy to make such thing happen
    • Without Whirlwind, Substitute users get a free opportunity to come in and set up. Prime users are Sceptile, Gallade and Magmortar, the latter having Vital Spirit to block a potencial Spore on the switch
    • If you don't care as much about set up sweepers, the last two slashes work perfectly fine on the set
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Focus Sash because Smeargle won't live one hit otherwise and enables it to get one extra hazard down
    • Max Speed to ensure Smeargle outspeeds as many Pokemon as possible to put them to Sleep before getting hit.
    • Smeargle won't be attacking, so the remaining EVs are put into HP and Defense
    • If running Explosion, max Attack should be used over max HP
    • This set is best used as a lead
    • Magic Coat
    • Memento
    • Toxic Spikes
    • Endeavor
    • Taunt
    • Encore
    • Works best in offensive playstyles, seeing as it isn't bulky enough to make a strong presence it defensive teams and offensive teams enjoy the damage dealt by hazards when forcing switches. Qwilfish and Roselia are better hazard setters in those kind of teams
    • Offensive powerhouses, such as Entei, Druddigon, and Sceptile are able to put to good work the hazards Smeargle lays down on the opposing side
    • Keeping up momentum with U-Turn and Volt Switch when combined with such a great amount of hazards set up racks up super fast on the opponent's team
    • Spinblocker is recommended, Golurk, Rotom and Spiritomb are kewl
    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Quilver Dance / Shift Gear
    move 3: Spore
    move 4: Substitute
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Own Tempo
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Access to every move in the game, why not Baton Pass? (because it's gay lol)
    • Smeargle can support its team mates by passing off boosts
    • Quiver Dance for special sweepers, Shift Gear for physical sweepers
    • Spore lets Smeargle take advantage of a sleeping for to either set up some more or get a free Baton Pass onto a team member
    • Substitute lets Smeargle avoid any kind of status and when Baton Pass'd, it gives the team mate another free turn to strike while having its stats boosted up.
    • This set is put to its fullest potencial after you have set up entry hazards or at least spread some damage on the opposing side so you don't get surprised by a random Focus Sash mid-game or the opponent still has a reliable check to your Baton Pass receiver at a good amount of health. When using this set, most times it is better to boost up first and then Spore, unless the foe packs a priority move or is faster after the Speed boost. This makes the opponent stay asleep for one extra turn which might prove to be key to successfully sweep.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Focus Sash as the item to make sure Smeargle takes one hit
    • It won't live more than one and it won't attack, so Smeargle should have max Speed and max HP
    • Belly Drum
    • Tail Glow
    • Ingrain so that Roar / Whirlwind / Dragon Tail doesn't mess it up
    • Taunt over Substitute
    • Works better on offensive teams with potent Baton Pass receivers, such as Moltres, Magmortar, Medicham, Sceptile, Entei, Emboar, Galvantula, and Gallade
    [SET]
    name: FEARgle
    move 1: Trick Room
    move 2: Spore
    move 3: Endeavor
    move 4: Dragon Rage
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Own Tempo
    nature: Hardy
    evs: 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Sets up Trick Room no matter what, unless the opponent has Taunt, Sleeping inducing moves, gets full paralyze or multi-hit moves.
    • Spore cripples a Pokemon for the rest of the match pretty much
    • After being put to sleep, Endeavor bring the opponent down enough to the point where it gets easily revenge killed
    • Dragon Rage deals consistent 40 HP damage, enough to take out the opponent after using Endeavor even after Leftovers recovery
    • After taking a hit thanks to Focus Sash, Smeargle uses Trick Room to outspeed the opposing Spore and follows with a Spore. Endeavor brings the foe down enough to the point where Dragon Rage knocks them out. Repeat the process, profit.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Level 1 makes Smeargle's HP stat lowered to the max while lowering its Speed too
    • Ghost types are unnafected by Endeavor. Rotom is especially useful against Smeargle because it can also block the Spore with Substitute
    • After having its sash broken, Smeargle falls down to every priority user in the tier
    • Spiritomb can Pursuit trap those Ghost-types, and it can both set up and benefit from Trick Room.
    • Smeargle is best used on a full Trick Room team, so Slowking, Aggron, Druddigon, Exeggutor, Mesprit, and Escavalier are good team mates
    • Destiny Bond can be used over Dragon Rage to get a last resort KO, but you lose the ability to attack and knock out the opposing Pokemon.
    • Magic Coat can also be used to shut down Taunt users
    [Other Options]
    • Tailwind
    • Despite large movepool, the best options are already accounted for in the sets above
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Lum Berry users, such as Gallade, Durant, Kabutops, Uxie, and Lilligant can easily 2HKO Smeargle and not being put to sleep turn one
    • Multi-hit moves such as Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Tail Slap, and Gear Grind annihilate Smeargle. Cinccino is a prime user of these kind of moves, Klinklang is especially good at countering Smeargle since it can block Spore wit Substitute and attempt to sweep from there if Smeargle doesn't pack Whirlwind, Rhydon and Crustle also wreck it with Rock Blast. Smeargle outspeeds the latter two Pokemon and can put them to sleep before they move though
    • Volt Switch and U-Turn can be used to break Smeargle's Focus Sash and switch to something that can take Smeargle on, thus preventing it from setting up. Faster Lum Berry users, such as Durant, Gallade, Kabutops, Omastar, Uxie, and Lilligant are very good switch-ins to Smeargle after Volt Switch or U-Turn damage, seeing as they won't be put to sleep and can take down Smeargle afterwards
    • Sap Sipper Pokemon can absorb Spore. Bouffalant, Miltank and Sawsbuck
    • Substitute blocks Spore, so it's a good way to deal with Smeargle. Sceptile, Uxie, Gallade, and Moltres are good options. Whirlwind is a thing though.
    • Sleep Talk users can absorb Spore and directly threaten Smeargle. Emboar and Entei are good options
    • Magmortar can't be put to sleep due to its ability Vital Spirit, and it can make quick work of Smeargle
    • Faster sleep inducers, such as Jynx and Lilligant, can put Smeargle to sleep before it moves
    • Magic Coat users, such as Golurk and Mesprit, can bounce back Spores and hazards back
    • A faster Qwilfish with Taunt can easily shut down Smeargle and have a free turn to lay down Spikes if Smeargle doesn't bounce it back with Magic Coat
    • Fake Out, Kangaskhan, Hariyama, and Hitmonlee are gud
    • Phazing move users like Steelix or haze users like Cryogonal completely stop the Baton Pass set
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  2. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    I'd keep FEARgle, its a really annoying and potentially devastating set.

    [Spikes]
    *I'd call the set "hazard lead" because why would you not lead with Smeargle.
    *Mention that, with Explosion, maximum attack should be ran.
    *Remove Toxic Spikes from AC, as they are only useful if you set up two layers of it. Smeargle rarely lays more than two layers down. This makes most other moves useless on here... maybe OO.

    [Baton Pass]
    *Remove Cosmic Power and Cotton Guard, they aren't worth passing.
    *It honestly looks like you just took a bunch of offensive Pokemon and threw them into AC, which shouldn't happen. It should usually be Pokemon that cannot set up themselves or are not bad, so I'd remove Scyther, Gallade, Crawdaunt, and Electivire. It may seem wierd but I'd remove Aerodactyl too, since its only getting +1 in attack, which isn't enough, and +2 in speed, which it has plenty of. I'd also put Emboar > Entei because Emboar needs the speed boost more so than the power boost. And then, of course, specify why each one is a good recipient (needs the speed boost or cannot set up on their own, gets great coverage to abuse, etc.)

    [Other Options]
    *Maybe a pure Belly Drum set? With Trick Room gone you need more stuff, and I've actually seen it work, albeit with a lot of support.
    *Toxic Spikes and Cosmic Power would have a good place here.

    [Checks and Counters]
    *Id personally mention Cinccino in this section FIRST, and it prevents it from doing anything at all
    *Remove Aerodactyl and Archeops from Taunt + Stealth Rock users, both are not good users of it. Unfortunately, as of how it stands, nothing is faster than Smeargle and uses Taunt other than Whimsicott, so I'd actually just remove Taunt overall.
    *Remove Natu, its too rare.
    *I'd remove Bouffalant if only because its slower unlike the other two Sap Sippers.
    *Remove Electivire, it never uses Vital Spirit
    *When you mention Lum/Chesto users, mention specific common users of it. I don't think anything uses a Chesto tbh though
    *Id remove Escavalier from the Sleep Talk users. Because its slower, Smeargle still lays down 2 layers, and if it leads, Smeargle could use Spikes turn 1 and then Spore, or if Escavalier tries to use Sleep Talk here, that's three layers. It's honestly easy for Smeargle to play around it due to that low speed.

    I'll look at it again once this is implemented
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  3. Santuga

    Santuga

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    I implemented most changes, but I kept some of them, for example Toxic Spikes. Against some teams, 1 layer of Toxic Spikes racks up a lot faster than two, and the extra percentage in the first turns is crucial to get some KOs. I also kept Gallade as a Baton Pass receiver, it packs a lot of power and decent bulk to put it to good use. Thank you for the comment
  4. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    [Overview]
    • You don't need to say it's the most versatile Pokemon when it only has support sets that play very similar.
    • Don't mention standard stuff like "Horrible stats all around," "Usable Speed stat, outpaces most walls in the tier." The reader can already tell that by looking at the stats above.
    • Taunt is incredibly rare in RU. Nothing good that uses Taunt is even coming to mind atm.
    • You need to describe Smeargle's role and how it does in the metagame. Yeah RU is prepared for sleeping moves but Smeargle is still a Top A Rank threat. The Overview should explain why that is instead of listing obvious or irrelevant details.

    [Hazard Lead]
    • move 3: Move Magic Coat to AC. Like I said for the Overview, Taunt is never seen and Stealth Rock is usually more beneficial on Smeargle.
    • move 4: Whirlwind / Explosion / Rapid Spin / Thunder Wave
    • For Whirlwind you can get rid of the bit about sleep mechanics, and add in that it helps rack up entry hazard damage; it can also force out a predicted spinner switch-in like Kabutops.
    • Idk about 4 slashes but Memento can definitely be AC. The main reason to use Explosion is to deal heavy damage to Cryogonal trying to spin. Rapid Spin is a surprise move that can help you get rid of SR set up by an opposing lead like Uxie which is helpful if you have offensive teammates like Moltres. Thunder Wave cripples Emboar and Sawsbuck that try to come in on Spore.
    • You need to explain how to actually use the set, such as what to do if you see a likely Sleep Talk user like Emboar.
    • Also mention in AC that Focus Sash allows it to get an extra layer of Spikes.

    Not going to comment on the other sets now because you need to revise them based on my comments for the first set. For example, the Baton Pass set needs to specify which Pokemon are best to pass to and how to play it (doesn't need to be a lead). Same with the other set, get rid of useless info like "Under Trick Room, Smeargle will be the fastest Pokemon in the battle" and "Spore puts the foe to Sleep." Basically: get rid of obvious information and focus more on how to use the Pokemon.

    [Other Options]
    • Your first three bullets are already in a set so you can remove them.
    • Cosmic Power sucks so you can take it out.
    • Only Tailwind is pretty good and I can't really think of anything else I've seen do well.
    • I think the current OO section can be saved so this doesn't need to be rewritten. Just add Belly Drum I guess but I don't really see how that works lol.

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Mention Lum Berry holders first since they are the most common way of dealing with Smeargle. Kabutops is the best and you should also include Uxie.
    • Faster users with sleep moves like Lilligant and Jynx can check Smeargle but are kinda unreliable because of the accuracy.
    • Volt Switching out to a Lum Berry or Sleep Talk user needs to be specified.
    • Remove the line about Taunt users b/c they're bad and replace it with Magic Coat users like Mesprit and Golurk.

    This needs a lot of work before it can get a QC check so remind us to read it again when you finish revising the skeleton.
  5. Santuga

    Santuga

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    changes implemented, hopefully it goes more accordingly to QC standards
  6. EonX

    EonX Rise Above
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    Ok, I'll take a crack at this one:

    [Overview]

    Be sure to make mention of moves it can Baton Pass. As you mention the hazards it uses, mentioning stuff it Baton Passes keeps the Overview consistent

    [Hazard Lead]

    Mention how scout leads such as Rotom-C and Braviary can get Smeargle in safely if it isn't used as a lead
    Big mention of Rotom-C as it's deadly with hazards support and it can be used as a scout lead if you don't like the possible lead matchup
    Sub users are a problem if you don't use Whirlwind. Gallade and Sceptile are the biggest offenders here as they can Sub to block Spore and proceed to do serious damage
    Just make mention of more specific teammates for offensive playstyles (Druddigon, Entei, Sceptile, etc.)

    [Baton Pass]

    Remove Belly Drum as it actually disables Focus Sash. Replace with Swords Dance if you're intent on keeping an Attack-only boosting move
    Moltres wrecks shit with a QD pass and becomes borderline broken, so heavy mention it in the writeup

    [FEARgle]

    Other Trick Room setters. Mesprit, Exeggutor, Uxie, etc.
    Have an answer for Tank Rhydon. It is a decently common lead and can use Rock Blast to royally screw Smeargle

    [Other Options]

    Hate leaving it that small, but there literally is nothing out of that expansive movepool to use that isn't covered in the 3 sets.
    Maybe Bulk Up, Calm Mind, Agility, etc. but that's really stretching it

    [Checks and Counters]

    Cinccino should be mentioned first. It stops all of Smeargle's sets in a lead matchup
    Scout leads (Volt Switch and U-turn users that are faster than Smeargle) should be moved up imo considering Scarf Rotom-C is incredibly common. P. much anything that can handle sleep is a good switch-in after the Volt Switch/U-turn
    CB Druddigon is a deadly Sleep Talk user. May be slower than Smeargle, but it's a prime candidate to switch-in off of a Volt Switch or U-turn
    Mention Steelix as a phazer and Cryogonal as a Haze user (you make a general mention of them, but this gives the reader specific things to be aware of)
    I'd remove Hitmonlee from the Fake Out users. While Lee can use the move, it isn't sweeping if it has to use it on Smeargle turn 1. Kanga and Hariyama have secondary priority moves to follow up with and don't lose effectiveness from using Fake Out so early.

    That's all I have right now. I'll let others weigh in on this (again)
  7. Santuga

    Santuga

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    Not sure if I implemented all the changes or not, I edited this thread in two completely different times. I hope everything's ok to get QC rolling
  8. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Just a few things that i think deserve a mention in the checks and counters section, the analysis looks pretty good otherwise at first glance, so once these are discussed and/or implemented i'll take another look just to make sure and then QC Approve.

    • It should be at least mentioned in the multi hit users section that several multi hit users such as Rhydon or Crustle are slower than Smeargle, which means Smeargle can pull off a Spore or get an extra layer of hazards before being taken down by the multi hit move of choice, which can be pretty annoying

    • Klinklang should also be mentioned as a potential multi hit move user to beat Smeargle with, as it can be easily eved to Outspeed Smeargle and easily OHKO with gear grind before Smeargle can accomplish anything. if Klinklang has Substitute and Smeargle lacks Whirlwind the gear Pokemon can actually set up on Smeargle pretty easily as well, especially since in resists Explosion at all, most teams naturally pack a check or counter to Klinklang though, so it might not always be able to sweep from the get go even if it sets up on Smeargle.

    • I don't know about the other Taunt Pokemon since the move isn't *that* common in RU and a lot of the potential users are somewhat mediocre, but Qwilfish with an EV spread should definitely be mentioned as a way to beat Smeargle, fast Taunt Qwilfish essentially stops Smeargle from doing anything and can turn it into a free turn to set up Spikes pretty reliably. It should be mentioned Smeargle varients with Magic Coat can get around this though.
  9. Santuga

    Santuga

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    Changes implemented
  10. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    [Overview]
    • You can literally get rid of the first four bullets and say like: Smeargle is one of the best hazard setters due to having access to all of them and Spore to cripple the opposition and gain another layer
    • You can probably get rid of the line about being easy to set up on because Whirlwind is the first slash and not many mons try to set up on Smeargle imo
    • Sleep Talk and stuff like Lum Berry is everywhere because of Smeargle. Be sure to mention that
    • Despite the above, Smeargle is still likely to get the job done and cause an annoyance by being sent out later in the game or supporting Baton Pass and TR teams
    [Hazard Lead]
    • Rapid Spin can also be used late-game if you choose to save Smeargle for a surprise spin
    • Thunder Wave may also allow Smeargle to outspeed something or fully para the opponent and get another layer
    • Whirlwind is generally the most recommended move, but you can use the latter two if you're not worried about setup sweepers
    • Rapid Spin if you can't afford to use something like Kabutops on an offensive team
    • Thunder Wave if you're trying to cripple Emboar so you can outspeed with something like Slowking
    • The last bullet in AC (about Whirlwind) can just be put into the set comments

    Too lazy to do the other sets but they should be fine. This looks ready for QC checks after you implement these changes!
  11. Santuga

    Santuga

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    Changes implemented, ready for QC checks
  12. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Since Omastar is slower it will get Spored the next turn, so don't put it as a check.

    QC Approved 1/3
  13. Santuga

    Santuga

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    Removed Omastar, thanks for the check, two more!
  14. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 2/3
  15. DittoCrow

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    Santuga is giving this up. Post here if you want to take it over!
  16. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    Smeargle is too frail to set up both SR and Spikes, and even in an ideal scenario unless the opponent misplays or has no pokemon faster than smeargle and no spinner you're only getting 2 hazards out. Spore/Spin/Spikes/Whirlwind is my personal preference. If you know a switch to a sleep absorber is coming is coming I'd honestly rather get an extra layer down and then switch to save my sash (if they switch turn 1) or Whirlwind to get extra hazards damage and force them to switch again (if they switch after turn 1, since you already got a layer down the turn before). Rapid Spin gives Smeargle way more utility than twave mid-game, and twave smeargle is useless late game as it's not bulky enough to live an attack and sash will be broken so the only things you can paralyze are pokemon slower than base 75 speed or pokemon who don't invest in speed, and neither group really cares about getting paraed.

    Oh and Explosion is viable I guess but I'd almost always rather save Smeargle for death fodder, unless I was playing with a HO team. And I wouldn't use Smeargle on a HO team because he's not that reliable and HO teams need to reliably get hazards or they kinda lose. Actually a HO team needs death fodder more than most other teams so I really wouldn't use Explosion ever.

    edit: oh i forgot you can spinblock with boom yeah it can stay slashed i guess
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2013

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