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Discussion in 'Site Projects' started by TAY, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. TAY

    TAY You and I Know
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    Tangerine and I were talking on irc about how a lot of intelligent Stark threads get little to no discussion since they are already "complete" so to speak. Since these threads are already essentially articles, it would make more sense to publish them as just that. So we had the idea of writing articles to be released onto the site at regular intervals (exactly what that interval is we did not decide). Here is a snippet of our conversation:

    Code:
    [01:05] <Tangerine> why can't smogon have a blog
    [01:05] <TAY> lol
    [01:05] <Tangerine> like a newspaper
    [01:05] <Tangerine> maybe
    [01:05] <TAY> chris will say we copied him
    [01:05] <Tangerine> have 3~4 articles
    [01:05] <Tangerine> each month
    [01:05] <Tangerine> about random competitive stuff
    [01:05] <Tangerine> like offensive status
    [01:05] <Tangerine> etc
    [01:05] <TAY> isnt the front page like the newspaper?
    [01:06] <Tangerine> not really
    [01:06] <Tangerine> that's more like news
    [01:06] <TAY> oh you mean like a scholarly journal
    [01:06] <Tangerine> yeah
    [01:06] <TAY> better analogy imo
    [01:06] <Tangerine> that's what i want really
    [01:06] <Tangerine> a blog thing
    [01:06] <Tangerine> =]
    [01:06] <Tangerine> we can have contributors for that too
    [01:06] <TAY> well then we could have more contributors too
    [01:06] <Tangerine> yup
    [01:06] <Tangerine> i have a lot of crazy ideas for the site that i dont have time to do
    [01:06] <Tangerine> lol
    [01:06] <Tangerine> i mean your offensive status
    [01:06] <Tangerine> rather than making it into a discussion
    [01:07] <Tangerine> you can just write about it into a mini article like my thread
    [01:07] <Tangerine> etc
    [01:07] <TAY> just write about it
    [01:07] <Tangerine> yup
    [01:07] <Tangerine> and then we can post them in stark
    [01:07] <Tangerine> and make a "promoting discussion" version
    [01:07] <Tangerine> like your probability of hax thread
    [01:07] <Tangerine> would be a very good article for that
    [01:07] <Tangerine> etc
    [01:08] <Tangerine> basically its for things that are not important enough to be on the site but are still interesting
    [01:08] <TAY> well
    [01:08] <Tangerine> like McGraw's game theory posts
    [01:08] <TAY> yeah
    [01:08] <TAY> well i think we could do it
    [01:08] <Tangerine> we need more writers though
    [01:08] <Tangerine> that's the biggest thing
    [01:08] <Tangerine> lol
    [01:09] <TAY> well that shouldnt be too hard
    [01:09] <TAY> chris is me would probably help out
    [01:09] <Tangerine> lol no
    [01:09] <Tangerine> he shouldn't be writing imo
    [01:09] <TAY> what!?!?
    [01:09] <Tangerine> he doenst know what he's doing
    [01:09] <TAY> i hope you know i was joking lol
    [01:09] <Tangerine> oh okay
    [01:09] <Tangerine> lol
    [01:09] <Tangerine> anyway
    [01:09] <Tangerine> there are a lot of good "stark" threads
    [01:09] <Tangerine> that needs more visibility
    [01:09] <Tangerine> etc
    [01:10] <Tangerine> if people want to write i can give them topics to write about etc
    [01:10] <Tangerine> i mean
    [01:10] <Tangerine> there are so many things i can talk about
    
    So what we are proposing is that we begin a sort of Smogon "Scholarly Journal" which has current articles that don't belong on the main page section of the site (i.e. they are not guides), but will hopefully help people to better understand the game and will be interesting to read.

    We are asking for two things:

    1.) A place to publish these articles on the site.

    2.) We need writers. This would obviously be too much for Tangerine and I to handle alone. Tangerine has plenty of ideas regarding what to write about, so you do not have to come up with things to write about yourself (though it would be nice!). Any help we can get will be appreciated.

    Here are examples of threads which could be articles:
    McGraw's Game Theory

    And much more recently:
    Offensive Status
    Optimal Choice & Team Building



    So..thoughts? volunteers?
  2. SoT

    SoT Yes please!
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    I think that'd be a cool idea. I'd help if you need me to.


    Edit: Stark forum, or C&C forum btw?
  3. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    I have a lot of things to write about as well, and do write them.

    But are they noticed?

    ...

    I'll leave that up to you to decide.
  4. Tangerine

    Tangerine Where the Lights Are
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    "not as much as they deserve to be"

    By archiving them on the site they get more visibility, and they become a lot easier to refer to.
  5. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider
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    I'm really interested in this idea and would like to volunteer if you need me. If it matters, I'm an editor and a writer for my school magazine so I do have a bit of experience in writing.
  6. Stellar

    Stellar
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    Little Cup Pope

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    I'll help!
  7. Great Sage

    Great Sage

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    This sounds like a good idea.
  8. Aeolus

    Aeolus Bag
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    Gather several publishable articles fully prepared for the site first... and then contact me. I'll set up a section for you where you can place them.
  9. Tangerine

    Tangerine Where the Lights Are
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    I'm going to make a huge list of threads for now - and we can decide which one of them can be on site immediately and which ones need to be refined/modified a bit before going on there

    The ones that need to be cleaned up - those can be rewritten etc. It's almost hard to believe people can't think of things to discuss in stark almost! :P

    Transferal of Clauses
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33098

    Identifying your "edge" in Pokemon
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22055

    Applying Game Theory to Pokemon I
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21646

    Applying Game Theory to Pokemon II
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46975

    Concept of Lures
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44894

    Attack and Defense Tiers
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25863
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=524515#post524515

    The Purpose of Tiers
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43197

    Stall Play
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41798

    Element of Surprise
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39114

    SpecsLucario
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46963

    Minimizing Luck
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50398

    Probability of Hax
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50976

    Infrequently used Moves
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50509

    Offensive Status
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50993

    Damage Stats
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49449

    Best Attack Types
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44608

    Average Damage Dealt by a Move
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42012

    Optimal Choice and Team Building
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51083

    Analysis of Choice Band/Specs
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39185

    Beating the Learning Curve
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41690

    Metagame Analysis June/July 2008
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44744

    Counter Mentality
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45565
    This thread most likely needs a lot of cleaning up so it's less extreme first

    Overcentralization
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41364

    Derivation of the Characteristics of Uber
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1703006&postcount=46
  10. TAY

    TAY You and I Know
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    I would be happy to do edits on any of these, except for X-Act's since I obviously cannot do it. For now I would like to claim my own threads (Probability of Hax and Offensive Status), as well as the ones written by Aldaron (Transferal of Clauses and Lures). I would also be happy to take on "Identifying your Edge" if no one else wants it.


    EDIT: If anyone else has threads they think should be included, then obviously feel free to post them here.
  11. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    I'd like to add this to the mix. It's not perfect, but this is one of my very best documents, and I'm very disappointed that very few people seem to care, or have cared, about it. (Maybe this is because it is posted in the CAP forum... which many people deem as noobish.)

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1347091

    I'd also put the rating system for competitor there, but not until Competitor is officially released. (I need some input there, by the way.)
  12. Tangerine

    Tangerine Where the Lights Are
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    I'm going to start rewriting some of my threads so they can be "articleized"

    let me know if you guys want to help
  13. TAY

    TAY You and I Know
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    OK now that the intro to competitive mons guide is pretty much done, I would like to get this off the ground. After initially asking for volunteers the thread pretty much died, so I am going to ask again: Who is willing to prepare some of the threads listed for this project?

    I need people to go over the threads and:
    • Fix any grammatical / sentence structure errors
    • Update it if necessary
    • Turn them into articles
    To clarify the third point: In general, these threads were created to start discussion. That isn't the point of articles (though they should be interesting enough to do so!). The articles should not be frequently asking questions intended to start discussion, should not have unnecessary edits, etc. There should be examples when relevant, and you should try to avoid overly casual speech.

    If there are any questions then obviously feel free to ask.



    So if you would like to help revise current threads, post here. It would also be nice if you would say exactly which articles you are willing to edit (the list is on this page).



    I would also like some input on the following topics:
    • How often should we put new articles on site, and should it even be done at regular intervals?
    • How many articles should we be trying to push out at each [time interval]? I would say even just like 3-6 articles a month is plenty. Ideally I would like to get some "regular" articles going (Legacy Raider's Metagame Analysis is a good candidate).
    • Who should be allowed to submit articles, and should we have a regular writing staff?
    After these points are cleared up we can move forward.
  14. Caelum

    Caelum qibz official stalker
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    I am always willing to help TAY :toast:

    My first suggestion is to get an admin to create a sub-section under DP (maybe path /dp/journal or something idk, or maybe a sub-section of articles) and I'm pretty sure site staff can't do this and you have to be an admin so yeah - that's step one.

    I guess as often (i.e. monthly if we could), but every 3 months would be fine too. Depends how much content there really is.

    I doubt people would read more than 3-6 articles per month so yes that's fine.

    People would have to be assigned to them if you wanted regular articles otherwise it will never pan out (maybe legacy raider is interested in doing a monthly one?). I'm sure other people would be willing to volunteer (maybe me if you ask me nicely). I'm sure there are other regular topics that could come up monthly but I'm too tired to brainstorm right now.

    Only for the "regular" articles would that be needed. The rest could just be picked out from Stark and formalized in editing.

    I can do any grammar / sentence structure bits (I'm oddly better at correcting others then my own ._.) and do the formalization and cache and what not so I'm here for that.

    edit: i'll get a few together in ~ 2 days.
  15. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    I'd love to help on this but I've simply got too much going on right now.
  16. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider
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    I'd like to help. I'm comfortable with doing the majority of listed threads, but I'd quite like to start with Aldaron's "Concept of Lures" thread if that's alright.

    I think the articles should be posted on a regular basis - something along the lines of once a week. Whatever we choose to do it should be as regular as possible, somewhat like a tradition (e.g "Friday Articles"), as that way we'd get the most readers.

    Also, I'm willing to do Metagame Analyses regularly if everyone is alright with that. Once a month is a bit steep imo as the metagame doesn't change all that much in a single month (and it takes a while longer than that to get a real 'feel' for the metagame), but perhaps every 2 or 3 months?

    Anyway, I just wanted to say I'm willing to work on whatever, really.
  17. timw06

    timw06

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    Not quite related but there's still no way for people to find the generation neutral articles (at /articles/) and some of those are well worth reading (especially by the newer members).

    A tabbed layout (like the pokedex pages) would be good, then the link on the front page could be changed to /articles/ and not /dp/articles.

    Getting these "journal" articles published at a regular time (same day as the monthly usage stats?) sounds like a good idea and I'm prepared to help with converting them to html / checking grammar / etc if needed.
  18. Tangerine

    Tangerine Where the Lights Are
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    Okay, time to turn this Bigger.

    I don't see a reason why we should just limit ourselves to articles. There are a ridiculous number of things in this site that never get archived and remembered competitively or otherwise.

    I am proposing that we turn this project into a full blown "smogon magazine" published in a regular time period (every two months or so). I think this "magazine" can be not only used to promote good stark threads and articles and what not but to promote the community itself and attract people to the community.

    We can have regular columns of things. Competitive Pokemon wise, we can have

    1) Metagame Analysis (This is actually what I wanted to go with Metagame Analysis in the end!)
    2) A "Question of the moment", where users can submit interesting questions and we get a user to write about it
    3) "The Suspect Experience" where we can either get users to write about their experiences in the suspect ladder or collect interesting blurbs from the thread.
    4) Metagame Prediction Contests - where we can get users to predict how the metagame will look X period from now, or with a certain suspect. winner can get a custom title or something i guess.
    5) War Stories. The really really great ones
    6) Event coverages (like Showdown 2009 developments and articles relating to it)
    7) Tournament Reports, with winners and losers, key games, key moves

    etc etc etc. There are so many things that we can do JUST we competitive Pokemon. community wise we can have things like mafia summary threads and other firebot related shenanigans, funny blurbs, etc etc etc.

    Sure this is probably too much to ask for considering no one is getting paid or anything but it's worth bringing up :[... I'm willing to invest the time needed to direct something like this if enough people are interested or something
  19. Blue Kirby

    Blue Kirby Never back down.
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    A magazine? Now you've got me interested.

    I would love to write a few articles for something like that on a regular basis.
  20. Havak

    Havak I'm the Best. You're a Towel.
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    Great idea Tangerine, I fully support that and would love to be one of the writers.
  21. twash

    twash
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    Exactly what Havak said.
  22. Imran

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    I had a few ideas about the Metagame Analysis Sub-forum floating around in my head, I never posted them because LR said he was happy to do it. If he still is then that is fine, but I will give you a quick overview of my thoughts, just incase anyone was interested:

    The main problem with MA was always participation, and I have a couple of solutions that might help that. I was thinking, if we have a defined writing period and "process" that put users in a position of power, I was thinking having a "topic leader" for each metagame's write-up, then they have a responsibility to get it finished. This came along with a process that I have penciled out on paper. I don't have the time to write it down here now, but if anyone is interested I can post it in the old MA thread in PR, and see if we can "save the sub-forum." My other idea was to simply open it up to more people, it is much easier to write down metagame trends than it is to decide policies, so I believe we could give many many users access without it turning into a problem (I don't see why we could try opening it up to the majority of the community, or at least give that a try). If people show interest in what I have to say I will divulge more, but now I must go!
  23. twash

    twash
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    IIRC this was discussed before, I'm not sure if a decision was made. What I do know however, is that Great Sage has plans for it in the near future. I don't know what they are but I'd like to see if possible, I think MA has been "idle" far too long. Also I don't particularly see a problem with every member having access to it, provided discussion is intelligent. Anyway we are completely off track here, so I'll stop there.
  24. Imran

    Imran
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    Sorry, I didn't mean to go off track. My trail of thought was that we could set such a process up in tandem with this magazine, so that the final product of each analysis was ready for each publication. I'm sure that each "section" that Tangerine mentioned would probably need a similar system, although perhaps on a smaller scale.
  25. Jimbo

    Jimbo take me anywhere
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    I ditto what Havak said; I would love to help out.

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