CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 2

[spiderweb]

Grass won the poll why a ghost!

 

[Time Mage]

Ghost/Fight to lobby for a certain kick-ass possessed kung fu puppet evo.

Eh, good to see you liked the idea! :) But it should be reserved for a Banette evo, so I'm not voting for Ghost/Fighting.



Instead, I'm voting for... Ghost/Steel. Oh, it won't have Levitate? I DON'T CARE. I never cared about it. In my mind, the Ghost/Steel defensive pokémon was the non-cheap physical wall cousin of Blissey.

Stats would be something like 140/50/150/100/50/30. That's a total of 520, with a max HP/Max Def physical defense noticeably inferior to max HP/Max Def Blissey special defense, and having much less special defense than Blissey physical defense, plus two weakness, and of course no Levitate. Sure, it would have a load of resistances and immunities, but Blissey would still be superior in her field. And Infernape would still rape both :) Magnet Rise could be an option, given its poor speed: Won't be able to come into something that also carries EQ and MR before being hit. Although in the case it got MR, it wouldn't get an instant recovery move, and vice versa. So, it would either get Recover or Magnet Rise, but not both. The ability could be synchronize. It wouldn't protect it from status, but at least would get an instant revenge on the statuser. And a somewhat high SpAtt, because I'm tired of having walls that attack on the same side they wall on.

I thought that, since it's not going to win, I could at least share my ideas about it :/

 

[Zenigame]

One more person for Ghost/Fire to tie.

 

[Gmax]

Leech Seed. No Rapid Spins. Leech Seed. No Rapid Spins. Leech Seed. No Rapid Spins.

It also resists EQ, TBolt, Waterfall, and Normal/Fight Immune.

Swampy and Gyarados say "OMG No Whut!"

Um, TB is usually backed up by IB or another move that hits just as hard, and EQ will be backed up by Stone Edge/Ice Fang.

Swampert and Gyarados will just IB/Fang without giving a shit. And since when do people care about Spin removing Leech Seed? Its really more of an additional bonus than a huge reason to use it. Really, since walling involves both utilising resists and not having weaknesses, its better to have a typing like Ghost/Steel which has got a nice bunch of resists as well as a lower number of Weaknesses(Fire/Ground, which bulky waters deal with)

 

[Time Mage]

Well, depending on its speed, this Ghost/Grass could subseed pretty well, and with Ghost move/HP Fighting, it could cover a lot. Or maybe just Fire move + WoW+Subseed. A burn plus leech seed is a lot of lost HP per round.

It doesn't seem extremely useful, but it isn't bad, either.

 

[Deck Knight]

Um, TB is usually backed up by IB or another move that hits just as hard, and EQ will be backed up by Stone Edge/Ice Fang.

Swampert and Gyarados will just IB/Fang without giving a shit. And since when do people care about Spin removing Leech Seed? Its really more of an additional bonus than a huge reason to use it. Really, since walling involves both utilising resists and not having weaknesses, its better to have a typing like Ghost/Steel which has got a nice bunch of resists as well as a lower number of Weaknesses(Fire/Ground, which bulky waters deal with)

Anything even remotely defensive can shrug off Swampy Ice Beam and Ice Fang. Ice Fang is clearly Gyarados' crappiest option. To put it in perspective, Swampert can't even 3HKO Meganium with Ice Beam. In the meantime, Swampy gets OHKO'd and STAB Grass Knot has 120 BP against fat Gyarados.

 

[Gmax]

Anything even remotely defensive can shrug off Swampy Ice Beam and Ice Fang. Ice Fang is clearly Gyarados' crappiest option. To put it in perspective, Swampert can't even 3HKO Meganium with Ice Beam. In the meantime, Swampy gets OHKO'd and STAB Grass Knot has 120 BP against fat Gyarados.

Lol Specspert.

Anyway, being serious, what about the second part of my post? And the beginning? What real advantage does Grass/Ghost have? What is the point of a wall that can't switch in on so many common attacks?

 

[DiamondDust]

why did grass suddenly shoot ahead?
im having some kind of gasm, this is madness.

i think i have a basic idea of a grass ghost.

 

[éyaang]

lol, fire is now one vote ahead thanks to moi.

 

[Kamikaze Korean]

I went with Ghost/Steel. There's no rule that a Steel type has to be a wall or tank, is there? Just because there's never been a really speedy Steel before, doesn't mean there can't be one. With a Ghost type going with it, the weight of Steel can be negated in a way that makes sense. Sure, Steel is a bad attacking type, but if we get a Ghost/Steel sweeper, it would have a lot of opportunities to switch in on resistances.

 

[spiderweb]

Grass/Ghost is good it gets neutrally to Bug/Poison and many resistance.

 

[Cooper]

What the hell is a Ghost grass? A haunted tree? If I'm not going to get my spectral lynx, I want my foxfire. Gogogo Ghost/Fire.

By rubbing their tails together, a kitsune can make lightning or fire. The kitsune can also, to a small range, breathe out fire. Kitsune can also make small 'fox lanterns', by producing small balls of fire to float around them, and guide their way. This fire can be used as a weapon, or as a toy.

Can you say Humanshape Ninetails evo?

 

[Tauros]

ghost/normal ftw

 

[Arcadia Oni]

I was thinking in Ghost/Water and Ghost/Steel... But I voted Ghost/Steel even without lol Levitate, just wondering how this thing will looks like.

 

[ultimifier]

"what, the ghost steel can't get levititate... shit, that sucks. i guess i won't vote for it now" i wonder how many people had that run through their minds when they saw the no levitate hyra... thank you.

i however voted for ghost/grass for one reason and one reason only... i don't want ghost/fire to win.

ghost fire has way too many weaknesses: water, rock, ground, ghost and dark. with all of those being fairly common in the metagame. stealth rock weakness sucks, which will just make even more people use stalth rock, and slow the game down.

 

[Suburvia]

Damn, looks like I'm not getting my Ghost/Water. Ah, well. So long as Ghost/Fire beats out Ghost/Grass, I'll be happy. Well, I wouldn't be unhappy for a Ghost/Grass, so long as it's not a tank or something, because despite Grass's great resists, it gets a weak for each one, including the omnipresent Ice.

Basically, I'm saying I want a special sweeper. Ghost/Fire is definitely better for offense (though that SR weak is, as always, nasty), as Fire is just a fantastic offensive type. . . Grass is just meh. Too many resists for hitting just three, albeit common, types SE. Seriously, I once had an entire team that was unintentionally resistant to Grass. Two 4x resists, and four 2x resists. SubSeeding would be a cool bonus, though.

Ghost/Fire has 5 weaks: Ground, Ghost, Dark, Water, and Rock. So? T-Tar does too: Fighting, Ground, Water, Grass, and Bug. Ghost/Fire also has two immunities, Fighting and Normal, to come in on, in addition to a 4x Bug Resist. It resists Steel, Fire, and ICE for the record, as well.

Eh, whatever. I don't want this to become a massive rant.

 

[tennisace]

The Ghost / Fighting Combination
An In-Depth Look Into the Opportunities

Introduction:
It need not be said that I voted for Ghost / Fighting. I am absolutely determined to aid the community in understanding how absolutely essential and perplexing the addition of a Ghost / Fighting Pokemon would be. I will address several things in this post, as I unfortunately must -- we still do not know what kind of role our new Pokemon will have, so I will take it upon myself to point out the positives and negatives that this type combination has in every area of battling.

Breaking Down the Typing:
Ghost / Fighting has a number of key resistances while still having a few weaknesses to maintain competitive viability. Please refer to the following chart for a complete list.

Weaknesses
~ 2x Ghost
~ 2x Flying
~ 2x Psychic
Resistances
~ 4x Bug
~ 2x Rock
~ 2x Poison
Immunities
~ Fighting
~ Normal

As you can see, a large majority of attacks do, in fact, hit neutral on a Ghost / Fighting type combination. However, look at the resistances and immunities; specifically, look at the 4x Bug-resist, Rock-resist, and Fighting-immunity. According to newly established charts, Fighting and Rock-typed attacks are among the very top of lists regarding type-coverage, super-effective coverage, and usage in the overused metagame. Very few Pokemon in the game even resist Fighting and Rock-attacks at the same time, and those that do -- for instance, Claydol -- exchange their duel-resistance for a number of weaknesses that hinder their performances in competitive play. However, a Ghost / Fighting combination exchanges this resistance for three weaknesses -- Flying, Ghost, and Psychic. Flying, while an effective type for coverage, is only seen on a few particular Pokemon, namely Yanmega, Togekiss, and Staraptor, while Psychic receives very little love in the overused metagame these days. Of the aforementioned weaknesses, only Ghost is of that much concern. Moreover, the 4x-resistance to Bug gives a Ghost / Fighting Pokemon even more durability against certain threats -- specifically Heracross. We'll get there soon.

Defensive Tactics:
Countering the Offensive ~ A Ghost / Fighting combination has a lot of interesting facets about it. As recently stated, it bears a resistance or immunity to three of the four attacks that Heracross carries. It is immune to Close Combat, 4x-resists Megahorn, and resists Stone Edge. No other Pokemon in ever created boasts of such ability. Gliscor and Weezing resist the dual-STAB, and Dusknoir bears the immunity. Yet, none can boast of an immunity and 4x-resistance, followed by yet another resistance to Heracross' ace-in-the-hole against its many counters, Stone Edge.

Come to mention it, a Ghost / Fighting combination is the bringer of hellfire against most common fighting-typed threats in the overused metagame. Many fighting-types rely on complementary rock-typed attacks to "counter" their counters. Machamp, one of the most dominant physical threats in the game, typically relies on Stone Edge to hurt what it cannot with Dynamicpunch. Breloom's most commonly seen secondary move to Focus Punch is Stone Edge. Physical Lucario variations (Extremespeed, Close Combat, Stone Edge) and Special Lucario variations (Aura Sphere, Vacuum Wave) are significantly hindered. Medicham can do a lot of damage if it has Psycho Cut, but if it opts for Double-Edge instead to beat up on Cresselia, it has no chance between Hi Jump Kick and Double-Edge. Only the mixed Infernape even has a shot at taking down a Ghost / Fighting.
Priority Means Nothing ~ A closer look lends itself to the concept of priority attacks. Currently, there are only a handful of priority attacks used in the metagame -- Extremespeed, Bullet Punch, Vacuum Wave, Mach Punch, Shadow Sneak, and Ice Shard. Of these, a Ghost / Fighting is only weak to Shadow Sneak, while completely avoiding three of them.

No Spinning Here~ Currently, there are two premier anti-spinners seeing a lot of use in the overused metagame -- Spiritomb and Dusknoir. I suppose one could mention Gengar. Of these, the most efficient is probably Dusknoir. Dusknoir is hailed for its ability to counter ever single efficient spinner in the game. However, a Ghost / Fighting bears every single advantage that Dusknoir does. Similarly to Dusknoir, it can use its ghost-typed STAB to dispatch the likes of Starmie and Claydol, and Forretress cannot do much at all, per usual. An addition in the anti-spinner department would help a great deal.

Countering the Weaknesses ~ As previously mentioned, a Ghost / Fighting combination has three weaknesses -- Flying, Ghost, and Psychic. Notice an interesting thing about two of those weaknesses. Both Ghost and Psychic are typically seen as STAB-moves in the overused metagame, and both types bear a weakness to ghost-typed attacks to which a Ghost / Fighting Pokemon would certainly have access. The only uncovered type would be flying-typed attacks, which a third move-slot would hopefully remedy.

Offensive Tactics:
Dual-STAB ~ In the current metagame, a combination of a ghost and fighting-typed attack reigns supreme. A Ghost / Fighting Pokemon would have access to dual-STAB on the top type-coverage combination in the game. I would like to take a moment to point out that the most seen combinations in today's competitive battling are Ghost / Fighting, Ice / Ground, Electric / Ice, Ground / Rock, and Fight / Rock. Of these five common combinations, there are only two that mimic an actual type-combination -- Ground / Rock and Ice / Ground. Mamoswine basically sums up the Ice / Ground STAB arena, while the likes of Rhyperior make up the Ground / Rock STAB realm. Both of these combinations trade off their supreme coverage for horrible defensive typing. Fighting / Ghost, however, does not. So, not only would it be a supreme offensive typing -- the first of its kind, in fact -- but, it would not have to trade it off for any type of defensive crutch.

High Powered Attacks ~ One of the most important aspects of any Pokemon is the type of attacks to which it has access. Ghost / Fighting would have access to some of the best attacks in the game. For an offensive sweeper, it could have STAB-access to Close Combat, Aura Sphere, Shadow Ball, Shadow Sneak, Focus Blast, Superpower, and Shadow Punch. For a defensive tank, it could have STAB-access to Force Palm, Cross Chop, Shadow Punch, Aura Sphere, and so on. To bring this topic to point, both Ghost and Fighting have a large selection of moves from which to choose, most of which have extremely high-base power.

Breaking Down the Walls ~ Two of the most potent walls in the current metagame are Blissey and Cresselia, and many teams rely on their co-existence to wall a plethora of threats. A Ghost / Fighting Pokemon would join the ranks of Heracross, Tyranitar, Weavile, and Scizor as one of the only Pokemon that could reliable take down both. However, it could be the only one that could so with nothing but its own STAB. This frees up EVs, especially for a more defensive build. It would obviously, therefore, have the ability to break down most of the special walls and tanks seen in the metagame, including Snorlax, Regice, Cradily, Empoleon, and many more. It would also wreak havoc on many premier tanks, like Dusknoir, Heatran, and company. Due to the combination of dual-STAB and high-powered moves at its disposal, a Ghost / Fighting Pokemon could wreak havoc on the metagame.

My Personal Thoughts:
I have never been able to imagine a Pokemon that could so efficiently stop Heracross while at the same time laying waste to Blissey and Cresselia. The thought of a Ghost / Fighting Pokemon is simply phenomenal. Personally, I would push for Insomnia if it was to win so that it could serve as a complete counter against Breloom, as well. We as a community have always wanted a defensive-fighter that could really be treated as a wall rather than just an offensive tank like Machamp, Hitmontop, or Hariyama. Imagine that wall coming true, with access to STAB on the best type coverage in the game, and perhaps even reliable recovery, all the way being able to rip apart most opposing special walls and tanks.

On top of everything, it would resist Stealth Rock, serve as a decent Tyranitar counter, have access to dual-priority-move-STAB in Mach Punch / Vacuum Wave and Shadow Sneak, shut down most fighters ... the possibilities are endless.

Obviously, it should be clear that I would want this Pokemon to be a durable tank or wall due to its awesome resistances. It could rely on its high based-power moves for its strength, reserving precious EVs and Base Stat Distribution for more defensive builds.

Moreover, it could create unbreakable substitutes in the face of Blissey, as it would remain immune to Seismic Toss. And, due to its Fighting-nature, it could get access to Bulk Up, creating a powerful physical monster. It also, as a Ghost, would have access to Pain Split, Will-o-wisp, and all of the generic support-options. It would be an incredible Pokemon.

Plain and simple.

Please vote for Ghost / Fighting!!

QFT However, you neglected to mention the counters. Togekiss is one, and always carries Air Slash, an on that note, Crobat usually does too and is probably significantly faster than what we're going to make this. Also, Dugtrio can trap this thing and kill with Aerial Ace, usually carried for Heracross, Gliscor and Staraptor do too. Gallade and Medacham also counter this to an extent with STAB Psycho Cut, but they would have to be faster in order to hit it twice because of the 2x Ghost weakness. Dusknoir, and Gengar also stand out as counters because they both usually carry Shadow Sneak. This may seem like a broken pokemon now, but if we give it a crappy ability and say...average speed, then it won't be very broken.

 

[Automatic]

What the hell is a Ghost grass? A haunted tree?

thats what you made me think of

 

[andersatan]

thats what you made me think of

Hmm I couldn't even think of what it would be but that would be pretty cool.

 

[joshua]

Shame Grass. Didn't win. Ghost/Grass would be pretty good, especially with Flashfire. Regardless of type, I want it to be something bulky with a good movepool.

 

[Fierce Deity]

We need a rapid spinning ghost, and it mixes two types that have been rivals for a while, which is a good thing in my book.

Who says it can't be physical with fighting moves, but with Normal type comes versatility.

Sprite ideas:

Ghost/Normal could look like anything, lets be honest.

 

[Lorak]

Oh, great. Now I just got inspired to draw some Ghost/Fighting art. Thanks a lot. >:(

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Ghost/Fire shouldn't be no damn Kistune simply because then should have done a damn evolution in the first place. It should be a true will-o-wisp since it more fitting. Give that little sucker TB and/or Thunder as well as the other Ghost/Fire attacks and it's okay.

 

[Chronos]

Ghost/Fire could be very similar to Rotom... with the whole little floating ghost idea.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Ghost/Fire could be very similar to Rotom... with the whole little floating ghost idea.

Actually if you think about it and do some resource, The Ghost/Fire and Rotom would be "brothers" in the sense.