CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 2a

What should the type of our new Pokemon be?


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Normal just screams "complete opposite of ghost" to me, so I don't think the two go together very well.

Steel doesn't make a lot of sense to me, either, unless it's like a possessed suit of armor or something.

Fire seems to be the best match to me. The potential designs for it are practically limitless (unlike grass), and Will-O-Wisp suits it so perfectly.
 
and not every pokemon needs unresisted STAB, only 3 weaknesses, and SR resist.
only 3? SR resist? let's ban every steel type then. how is a SR resist significant? it only matters if that's your only method of beating your opponent. SR damage is just a nice bonus for the player that used SR
 
I really don't get Ghost/Grass. It's like Celebi... but will be worse because of less than 600 BST. a Bug Resist and Poison resist isn't that spectacular for Grass. and Grass does nothing to help Ghosts weaknesses.
 
I really don't get Ghost/Grass. It's like Celebi... but will be worse because of less than 600 BST. a Bug Resist and Poison resist isn't that spectacular for Grass. and Grass does nothing to help Ghosts weaknesses.
qft

you should've just removed ghost/grass altogehter...but then that wouldn't have been fair for half the people.
 
Reposted from previous topic ...

The Ghost / Fighting Combination
An In-Depth Look Into the Opportunities

Introduction:
It need not be said that I voted for Ghost / Fighting. I am absolutely determined to aid the community in understanding how absolutely essential and perplexing the addition of a Ghost / Fighting Pokemon would be. I will address several things in this post, as I unfortunately must -- we still do not know what kind of role our new Pokemon will have, so I will take it upon myself to point out the positives and negatives that this type combination has in every area of battling.

Breaking Down the Typing:
Ghost / Fighting has a number of key resistances while still having a few weaknesses to maintain competitive viability. Please refer to the following chart for a complete list.

Weaknesses
~ 2x Ghost
~ 2x Flying
~ 2x Psychic
Resistances
~ 4x Bug
~ 2x Rock
~ 2x Poison
Immunities
~ Fighting
~ Normal

As you can see, a large majority of attacks do, in fact, hit neutral on a Ghost / Fighting type combination. However, look at the resistances and immunities; specifically, look at the 4x Bug-resist, Rock-resist, and Fighting-immunity. According to newly established charts, Fighting and Rock-typed attacks are among the very top of lists regarding type-coverage, super-effective coverage, and usage in the overused metagame. Very few Pokemon in the game even resist Fighting and Rock-attacks at the same time, and those that do -- for instance, Claydol -- exchange their duel-resistance for a number of weaknesses that hinder their performances in competitive play. However, a Ghost / Fighting combination exchanges this resistance for three weaknesses -- Flying, Ghost, and Psychic. Flying, while an effective type for coverage, is only seen on a few particular Pokemon, namely Yanmega, Togekiss, and Staraptor, while Psychic receives very little love in the overused metagame these days. Of the aforementioned weaknesses, only Ghost is of that much concern. Moreover, the 4x-resistance to Bug gives a Ghost / Fighting Pokemon even more durability against certain threats -- specifically Heracross. We'll get there soon.

Defensive Tactics:
Countering the Offensive ~ A Ghost / Fighting combination has a lot of interesting facets about it. As recently stated, it bears a resistance or immunity to three of the four attacks that Heracross carries. It is immune to Close Combat, 4x-resists Megahorn, and resists Stone Edge. No other Pokemon in ever created boasts of such ability. Gliscor and Weezing resist the dual-STAB, and Dusknoir bears the immunity. Yet, none can boast of an immunity and 4x-resistance, followed by yet another resistance to Heracross' ace-in-the-hole against its many counters, Stone Edge.

Come to mention it, a Ghost / Fighting combination is the bringer of hellfire against most common fighting-typed threats in the overused metagame. Many fighting-types rely on complementary rock-typed attacks to "counter" their counters. Machamp, one of the most dominant physical threats in the game, typically relies on Stone Edge to hurt what it cannot with Dynamicpunch. Breloom's most commonly seen secondary move to Focus Punch is Stone Edge. Physical Lucario variations (Extremespeed, Close Combat, Stone Edge) and Special Lucario variations (Aura Sphere, Vacuum Wave) are significantly hindered. Medicham can do a lot of damage if it has Psycho Cut, but if it opts for Double-Edge instead to beat up on Cresselia, it has no chance between Hi Jump Kick and Double-Edge. Only the mixed Infernape even has a shot at taking down a Ghost / Fighting.
Priority Means Nothing ~ A closer look lends itself to the concept of priority attacks. Currently, there are only a handful of priority attacks used in the metagame -- Extremespeed, Bullet Punch, Vacuum Wave, Mach Punch, Shadow Sneak, and Ice Shard. Of these, a Ghost / Fighting is only weak to Shadow Sneak, while completely avoiding three of them.

No Spinning Here~ Currently, there are two premier anti-spinners seeing a lot of use in the overused metagame -- Spiritomb and Dusknoir. I suppose one could mention Gengar. Of these, the most efficient is probably Dusknoir. Dusknoir is hailed for its ability to counter ever single efficient spinner in the game. However, a Ghost / Fighting bears every single advantage that Dusknoir does. Similarly to Dusknoir, it can use its ghost-typed STAB to dispatch the likes of Starmie and Claydol, and Forretress cannot do much at all, per usual. An addition in the anti-spinner department would help a great deal.

Countering the Weaknesses ~ As previously mentioned, a Ghost / Fighting combination has three weaknesses -- Flying, Ghost, and Psychic. Notice an interesting thing about two of those weaknesses. Both Ghost and Psychic are typically seen as STAB-moves in the overused metagame, and both types bear a weakness to ghost-typed attacks to which a Ghost / Fighting Pokemon would certainly have access. The only uncovered type would be flying-typed attacks, which a third move-slot would hopefully remedy.

Offensive Tactics:
Dual-STAB ~ In the current metagame, a combination of a ghost and fighting-typed attack reigns supreme. A Ghost / Fighting Pokemon would have access to dual-STAB on the top type-coverage combination in the game. I would like to take a moment to point out that the most seen combinations in today's competitive battling are Ghost / Fighting, Ice / Ground, Electric / Ice, Ground / Rock, and Fight / Rock. Of these five common combinations, there are only two that mimic an actual type-combination -- Ground / Rock and Ice / Ground. Mamoswine basically sums up the Ice / Ground STAB arena, while the likes of Rhyperior make up the Ground / Rock STAB realm. Both of these combinations trade off their supreme coverage for horrible defensive typing. Fighting / Ghost, however, does not. So, not only would it be a supreme offensive typing -- the first of its kind, in fact -- but, it would not have to trade it off for any type of defensive crutch.

High Powered Attacks ~ One of the most important aspects of any Pokemon is the type of attacks to which it has access. Ghost / Fighting would have access to some of the best attacks in the game. For an offensive sweeper, it could have STAB-access to Close Combat, Aura Sphere, Shadow Ball, Shadow Sneak, Focus Blast, Superpower, and Shadow Punch. For a defensive tank, it could have STAB-access to Force Palm, Cross Chop, Shadow Punch, Aura Sphere, and so on. To bring this topic to point, both Ghost and Fighting have a large selection of moves from which to choose, most of which have extremely high-base power.

Breaking Down the Walls ~ Two of the most potent walls in the current metagame are Blissey and Cresselia, and many teams rely on their co-existence to wall a plethora of threats. A Ghost / Fighting Pokemon would join the ranks of Heracross, Tyranitar, Weavile, and Scizor as one of the only Pokemon that could reliable take down both. However, it could be the only one that could so with nothing but its own STAB. This frees up EVs, especially for a more defensive build. It would obviously, therefore, have the ability to break down most of the special walls and tanks seen in the metagame, including Snorlax, Regice, Cradily, Empoleon, and many more. It would also wreak havoc on many premier tanks, like Dusknoir, Heatran, and company. Due to the combination of dual-STAB and high-powered moves at its disposal, a Ghost / Fighting Pokemon could wreak havoc on the metagame.

My Personal Thoughts:
I have never been able to imagine a Pokemon that could so efficiently stop Heracross while at the same time laying waste to Blissey and Cresselia. The thought of a Ghost / Fighting Pokemon is simply phenomenal. Personally, I would push for Insomnia if it was to win so that it could serve as a complete counter against Breloom, as well. We as a community have always wanted a defensive-fighter that could really be treated as a wall rather than just an offensive tank like Machamp, Hitmontop, or Hariyama. Imagine that wall coming true, with access to STAB on the best type coverage in the game, and perhaps even reliable recovery, all the way being able to rip apart most opposing special walls and tanks.

On top of everything, it would resist Stealth Rock, serve as a decent Tyranitar counter, have access to dual-priority-move-STAB in Mach Punch / Vacuum Wave and Shadow Sneak, shut down most fighters ... the possibilities are endless.

Obviously, it should be clear that I would want this Pokemon to be a durable tank or wall due to its awesome resistances. It could rely on its high based-power moves for its strength, reserving precious EVs and Base Stat Distribution for more defensive builds.

Moreover, it could create unbreakable substitutes in the face of Blissey, as it would remain immune to Seismic Toss. And, due to its Fighting-nature, it could get access to Bulk Up, creating a powerful physical monster. It also, as a Ghost, would have access to Pain Split, Will-o-wisp, and all of the generic support-options. It would be an incredible Pokemon.

Plain and simple.

Please vote for Ghost / Fighting!!

For some interesting calculations, check out the following. I am an avid supporter of Ghost / Fighting, and I would like to show just how awesome it would be. However, to properly display damage calculations, I will have to assign arbitrary numbers to the base statistics that I feel would be good choices.

90 HP / 82 ATK / 125 DEF / 78 SPATK / 100 SPDEF / 65 SPD
Base Statistics Total = 540

Let us presume we used a very basic 252 HP / 252 Defense +Defense Spread, because we want this to be able to simply overcome certain physical attackers.

Behold some of these damage calculations against the two main Pokemon that it could counter, making it one of the only Pokemon in the game that can reliably counter both Heracross and Tyranitar. Hell, according to the calculations, a Ghost / Fighting would perhaps convince most Heracross to carry Shadow Claw over Night Slash or Pursuit!

Against 252 HP / 252 Defense +Defense Ghost / Fighting
Max Attack Choice Band Heracross Close Combat = Immune
Max Attack Choice Band Heracross Megahorn = 12-15%
Max Attack Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge = 14-16%
Max Attack Choice Band Heracross Pursuit (Without Switching) = 11-14%
Max Attack Choice Band Heracross Night Slash = 20-23%
Max Attack Choice Band Heracross Shadow Claw = 40-47%
Max Attack Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge = 22-26%
Max Attack Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch = 35-42%
Max Attack Choice Band Tyranitar Earthquake = 30-35%

And, just to prove that this would not be overpowered, here are some damage calculations that show that this could be taken down due to its Flying, Ghost, and Psychic weaknesses. Keep in mind that I am only addressing physical attacks, as it would obviously have a far greater weakness to special attacks. So, remember, all of the following calculations are what certain Pokemon could do against an absolute Max Physical Defensive Ghost / Fighting with the given arbitrary statistics.

Max Attack Choice Band Medicham Psycho Cut = 74-87%
Max Attack Choice Scarf Medicham Psycho Cut = 50-59%
Max Attack Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird = 98-100%
Max Attack Choice Scarf Staraptor Brave Bird = 66-77%

Just giving out some information. Basically, a Ghost / Fighting would have some problems countering some of the premier special attackers in the game due to the prevalence of Gengar (Shadow Ball), Yanmega (Air Slash), Togekiss (Air Slash), Lucario (Shadow Ball), Alakazam (Psychic / Shadow Ball), and the like, as well as some physical attackers like Medicham (Psycho Cut) and Staraptor (Brave Bird).

Yet another chapter in the case for Ghost / Fighting ...
 

KoA

Sorry, I thought anteaters were real
is an Artist
Went with Ghost/Grass since I've supported it from the start. Seriously, there's way more we can do with it visually than haunted dead trees and pumpkins. Give us credit, yo.

I also don't care of its disadvantaged typing, not every new poke has to be unique awesome typing ever. It may work to our favor, it may not. I can guarantee it will look awesome though.
 
awesome, ghost fight is catching up! thanks futuresuperstar

ghost normal sounds boring tbh, and it sounds like we're just adding a type to get the ghost immuity, even though theres not good physical stab ghost moves like return.
ghost grass doesnt have the typing synergy that i like in ghost fight
 

junior

jet fuel can't melt steel beams
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Oh wow, only a few hours ago, Ghost/Fighting was trailing by quite a bit. Yay for it catching up.
 
I thought I posted before that the new Pokemon was going to be Ghost/Normal? Why are you doing these polls?
And you have authority to do this since WHEN?

Anyway, I'm not much for picking types, I'll probably get more involved after types have been decided.
 
blah blah analysis blah
I keep telling you, do Ghost/Normal now!

Still repping Ghost/Normal. But damn you Hyra, I thought Ghost/Fire had won, and I started working on the art design. Now it's useless, because it's between Ghost/Grass and Ghost/Fighting at the moment. Of those two I'll vote Ghost/Fighting, not because of futuresuperstars crazy analysis that I didn't read, but because I also have an excellent design for that.
 
i think ppl should be looking at how unique or interesting the pokemon is over how good it is. I mean ghost/normal is probably a really good type combination, but like, it seems so dull. what would a ghost/normal be? srsly, someone give me an example plz.

i voted ghost/fighting btw =P
 

Lorak

*leekspin*
is an Artist Alumnus
i think ppl should be looking at how unique or interesting the pokemon is over how good it is. I mean ghost/normal is probably a really good type combination, but like, it seems so dull. what would a ghost/normal be? srsly, someone give me an example plz.

i voted ghost/fighting btw =P
Casper.
 
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