Smogon Doubles LC

Audiosurfer

I'd rather be sleeping
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus

credits to xzern for the logo!
Disclaimer: This is a thread to comment and discuss on the Smogon Doubles LC metagame. This metagame is not official and is thus to be considered an Other Metagame, only relevant to Smogon Doubles and reliant on main Smogon Doubles rules. Also this OP is shamelessly stolen from Joim's ones.

Smogon Doubles Little Cup

Smogon Doubles LC is a metagame where as opposed to the fully evolved Pokemon found in the standard Doubles metagame, Pokemon at Level 5 are used. Feel free to discuss tactics, teams, Pokémon, and rules on this thread. This is also the place to post Smogon Doubles LC replays and to organise tournaments.

Smogon Doubles LC can be played on Pokémon Showdown in normal Doubles games. There is no ladder. The active clauses are Sleep Clause, Species Clause, Moody Clause, OHKO Clause, and Endless Battle Clause; thus rules in place are the following:

Pokémon from all six generations that are not unreleased nor illegal and do not share Pokédex number are allowed.
Pokemon used Pokemon must be able to evolve.
Pokemon must be in its earliest evolution stage.
Pokemon must be at level 5.
All released abilities that are not Moody are allowed.
All released items are allowed.
All moves but Dragon Rage, Sonic Boom, and OHKO moves are allowed.
Combinations of moves, abilities, and items that cause battles to be endless are banned.
Team Preview is present.
Scyther, Sneasel, Tangela, and Yanma are all banned from the tier.

LC INTRODUCTION (for those unfamiliar with the tier)

We have had experience with LC in the past. Without further ado, I'd like to propose the following topics: What teams do you use? What LC mons you find more underwhelming or better? What strategies are the most effective? Any items that are surprisingly good?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Pocket

be the upgraded version of me
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Are we using the same ban list as LC singles? i wouldn't suggest unbanning sneasel or tangela, but any thoughts on bringing back yanma? Somebody who is more learned in the ways of LC can comment on this proposal ;x
 
Well, this is my team. Made it to the semi-finals in the tourney with it.

Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Protect

Electrolyte (Porygon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Trace
Level: 5
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Trick Room
- Protect

Shaian (Clamperl) @ DeepSeaTooth
Ability: Shell Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
- Blizzard
- Ice Beam
- Muddy Water
- Protect

KyleCole (Cranidos) @ Eviolite
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 5
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Head Smash
- Hammer Arm

Dashspin (Scraggy) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
- Drain Punch
- Rock Slide
- Fake Out
- Protect

finally (Larvesta) @ Eviolite
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Bug Buzz
- Protect
- Zen Headbutt
 

Audiosurfer

I'd rather be sleeping
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Right now yeah it's the same banlist. After some time might do some edits but for now it seemed simpler.
I would be a lot happier if berry juice was re-banned. Seriously it's either berry juice or eviolite on everything
Berry Juice is fine in the tier. While it's popular, it's by no means broken, and makes the tier more enjoyable, at least imo. Also since this isnt an official meta there probably won't be any bans or anything for a while unless actually needed.

Anyways I've been playing LC Doubles all day and it's actually super fun. There was an LC Doubles tourney in the PS Doubles room, so I figured I'd talk about some of the Pokemon I used. Ended up making a newer version so I wanted to share the old one to give people an idea of what they could use. First, here's the team: http://pastebin.com/fMkxeBJj

Two of the most popular Pokemon were Scraggy and Pawniard. Pawniard is every bit as good as Bisharp is in Doubles, with Defiant being great to benefit from the high usage of Scraggy. Also, getting stab on the best move in LC is pretty amazing. Sucker Punch is pretty useful to make up for its middling Speed and pick off faster threats. Scraggy is also an amazing Pokemon. With access to Intimidate and Fake Out along with STAB Knock Off, it's probably the best Fake Out user in the tier. Fake Out is every bit as good as it is in standard Doubles, and Intimidate is nice to check physical attackers.

replays:
Me vs Shaian
Me vs SatanicKitten

so yeah if you're interested you should swing by the doubles ps room or #doubles and try this out, it's surprisingly enjoyable
 
Last edited:
Yanma would definitely be easier to handle in a Doubles environment than it is in singles, but it might still be broken here as well. Faster than the entire unboosted tier, Speed Boost to outrun boosted Pokemon or Compound Eyes to put shit to sleep just like it did in singles, much less Stealth Rock around to deter it from switching in, access to a fast Tailwind, less dependence upon Hidden Power to hit things because almost nothing in LC resists Bug and Flying.

Up to you guys though whether or not you want to take the time to test it for an unofficial metagame.
 

Audiosurfer

I'd rather be sleeping
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
OK don't mind me I only started LC a few days ago so I probably don't know what I'm talking about xD
nah, don't worry about it. just keep playing the tier and you'll get the hang of it. for now nothing will be tested. if the tier grows in popularity to the point where such a test would be feasible and desirable then it will happen though.
 
nah, don't worry about it. just keep playing the tier and you'll get the hang of it. for now nothing will be tested. if the tier grows in popularity to the point where such a test would be feasible and desirable then it will happen though.
LC seems a bit more complex than OU somehow(how?)
 
Ok I feel I picked up on this pretty quickly because LC is my second best tier right now.
I do not think Yanma would be broken at all, but all the other ubers most likely would be. Being really fast and powerful isn't nearly as important in dubs(just ask Deoxys-A).
I reeeeeeally strongly believe that Drought is broken. Vulpix alone is ridiculously powerful, but when you start stacking other fire types and chlorophyll users it gets very easy to overwhelm the opponent. Specs Vulpix actually 2hkos Eviolite Squirtle with spread Heat Wave as proven by one of my replays.
Mienfoo is probably one of the best Pokemon in the tier. It already had the niche of bulky fighting type with Fake Out+Knock Off+Regenerator+U-turn in singles, but all of that is way more useful in a doubles format.
Misdreavus is actually really great with Levitate+Ghost typing+bulk+speed+WoW. Combine that with an sweet offensive presence and you get a Pokemon you wish you had in regular dubs.
Anyway, I know it is a bit premature, but ban Drought.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-82047288
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-82051486
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-82041772
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-82061346

Audio Edit: Like I've said nothing is getting banned for a while, so please don't ask for it. It's been one day, so there hasn't been enough time at all to determine what is overpowered or not.
Jake Edit: Ok but I am 5-0 with drought and your edit deleted one of my replays D:
Audio Edit: didn't touch your replays dude (and if I did didn't mean to).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Doubles is more complex than every other tier .-.

Ontopic: I like how this thread got more attention than the UU/ubers had :(
Ok I feel I picked up on this pretty quickly because LC is my second best tier right now.
I do not think Yanma would be broken at all, but all the other ubers most likely would be. Being really fast and powerful isn't nearly as important in dubs(just ask Deoxys-A).
I reeeeeeally strongly believe that Drought is broken. Vulpix alone is ridiculously powerful, but when you start stacking other fire types and chlorophyll users it gets very easy to overwhelm the opponent. Specs Vulpix actually 2hkos Eviolite Squirtle with spread Heat Wave as proven by one of my replays.
Mienfoo is probably one of the best Pokemon in the tier. It already had the niche of bulky fighting type with Fake Out+Knock Off+Regenerator+U-turn in singles, but all of that is way more useful in a doubles format.
Misdreavus is actually really great with Levitate+Ghost typing+bulk+speed+WoW. Combine that with an sweet offensive presence and you get a Pokemon you wish you had in regular dubs.
Anyway, I know it is a bit premature, but ban Drought.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-82047288
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-82051486
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-82041772
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-82061346

Audio Edit: Like I've said nothing is getting banned for a while, so please don't ask for it. It's been one day, so there hasn't been enough time at all to determine what is overpowered or not.
Jake Edit: Ok but I am 5-0 with drought and your edit deleted one of my replays D:
Audio Edit: didn't touch your replays dude (and if I did didn't mean to).
I have yet to watch the replays, as I do not have the time tonight, but I doubt that Vulpix can do too much without a good substitute up. When you consider the amount of users who use rock slide/muddy water, it seems like it just can't be that good. I'd like to play with you tomorrow afternoon, if possible, to experience Vulpix's abilities first-hand.
 

Audiosurfer

I'd rather be sleeping
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
In addition to this, that Squirtle was running a Life Orb, not an Eviolite, so it wasn't a very bulky set, which likely played a big factor in its getting 2HKOed by Heat Wave. So yeah Vulpix isn't as powerful as you're saying
 
I have yet to watch the replays, as I do not have the time tonight, but I doubt that Vulpix can do too much without a good substitute up. When you consider the amount of users who use rock slide/muddy water, it seems like it just can't be that good. I'd like to play with you tomorrow afternoon, if possible, to experience Vulpix's abilities first-hand.
Social I already battled you. That was the one replay that mysteriously deleted. You were running TR which directly counter styles sun offense and I still won...
Specs Vulpix can tank most Rocks Slides and Muddy Waters, can be partnered with Chlorosaur Sleep Powder/Solarbeam or another Heat Waver like Magby with 19 speed, 2hkos almost everything and ohkos most things with a spread move, and can be partnered with Fake Out/Follow Me/Tail Wind for easy mode.
It is just too gosh darn easy to get around its counters, Drought is amazing support and it overwhelms most things just on its own.


And ok, not 2hkoing eviolite squirtle is actually expected. It could just hit it with Energy Ball tho or get ANY form of partnering.
 
Social I already battled you. That was the one replay that mysteriously deleted. You were running TR which directly counter styles sun offense and I still won...
Specs Vulpix can tank most Rocks Slides and Muddy Waters, can be partnered with Chlorosaur Sleep Powder/Solarbeam or another Heat Waver like Magby with 19 speed, 2hkos almost everything and ohkos most things with a spread move, and can be partnered with Fake Out/Follow Me/Tail Wind for easy mode.
It is just too gosh darn easy to get around its counters, Drought is amazing support and it overwhelms most things just on its own.


And ok, not 2hkoing eviolite squirtle is actually expected. It could just hit it with Energy Ball tho or get ANY form of partnering.
Social I already battled you. That was the one replay that mysteriously deleted. You were running TR which directly counter styles sun offense and I still won...
Specs Vulpix can tank most Rocks Slides and Muddy Waters, can be partnered with Chlorosaur Sleep Powder/Solarbeam or another Heat Waver like Magby with 19 speed, 2hkos almost everything and ohkos most things with a spread move, and can be partnered with Fake Out/Follow Me/Tail Wind for easy mode.
It is just too gosh darn easy to get around its counters, Drought is amazing support and it overwhelms most things just on its own.


And ok, not 2hkoing eviolite squirtle is actually expected. It could just hit it with Energy Ball tho or get ANY form of partnering.
Our most recent battle. I got lucky a bit, but my team tends to do that. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-82081708
Edit:
And here's another, in which I lost, but easily took out Vulpix.
 
Last edited:

Audiosurfer

I'd rather be sleeping
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I think an interesting way to check Sun could be through the use of Scarf Tyrunt backed by Sand. Has a 4x resistance to Heat Wave and a neutrality to Solarbeam (including the SDef boost from sand) which seems pretty decent. From there, it's STAB Rock Slide could threaten the Fire-types seen on Sun teams and it would have Fire/Ice Fang to get rid of the Chlorophyll users. A moveset similar to the one listed below could be cool to test out. Don't know much about Speed tiers though so I can't say which nature is better, but it is already a fairly powerful Pokemon so it could be interesting to try. Have seen some other cool Pokemon that could check Vulpix and co. but I'll talk more about those later.

Tyrunt @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Strong Jaw
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 204 Atk / 212 Spd
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Claw
- Stone Edge

edit: also new replays (Audiosurfer vs Gyarad0s) (Audiosurfer vs SatanicKitten)
 
Last edited:

chimp

Go Bananas
is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I think Trick Room could be a nasty strategy. Speed is everything in LC, and the sheer amount of good pokemon that would be great under trick-room is astounding. Porygon, Timburr, Magnemite, Slowpoke, Spritzee, Krabby, Meditite, Bunnelby, Munchlax etc would wreck if they had the opportunity to outspeed their foes. TorchicPass could see some more success in doubles I think, since you can use your partner to remove any status users like Slowpoke.

Also weather. In Gen VI, the only weather commonly seen is Sun. While its an awesome strategy, I think LC doubles would be allow people to try out the other weathers, especially Sand and Hail which, even with auto-setters, aren't seen too much unless you just so happen to be running Hippo/Snover. There was a thread on the LC forums that showcased a ton of pokemon who would kill for rain up too.
 
I think an interesting way to check Sun could be through the use of Scarf Tyrunt backed by Sand. Has a 4x resistance to Heat Wave and a neutrality to Solarbeam (including the SDef boost from sand) which seems pretty decent. From there, it's STAB Rock Slide could threaten the Fire-types seen on Sun teams and it would have Fire/Ice Fang to get rid of the Chlorophyll users. A moveset similar to the one listed below could be cool to test out. Don't know much about Speed tiers though so I can't say which nature is better, but it is already a fairly powerful Pokemon so it could be interesting to try. Have seen some other cool Pokemon that could check Vulpix and co. but I'll talk more about those later.

Tyrunt @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Strong Jaw
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 204 Atk / 212 Spd
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Claw
- Stone Edge
Yepp Vulpix checks are starting to pop up fast. However, a scarf locked Tyrunt can easily be played around with your team(I don't think it even outpaces chlorosaur or anything in tailwind). That set looks like bait for any of the fighting types that you'd be silly not to use due to the awesome fake out support they provide.
So while I will say that Vulpix even with support is more checkable than originally perceived, Drought still seems like an overpowered playstyle.
 

Pocket

be the upgraded version of me
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
You can use Fletchling I suppose. It packs a punch with Gale Wings Acrobatics, and is lethal to Vulpix / Bulbasaur / Fighting-types. It can even take advantage of the sun with Overheat (no STAB tho)

196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Vulpix: 18-22 (85.7 - 104.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 76 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 18-24 (81.8 - 109%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
-1 196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scraggy: 14-18 (66.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO; OHKO if Eviolite is lost
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Meditite: 18-24 (94.7 - 126.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO


Fletchling @ Berry Juice
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Atk / 56 SpD / 20 Spe
- Acrobatics
- Quick Guard
- Protect
- Tailwind / Taunt / Swords Dance

OK forget Overheat
 
Last edited:

polop

Would you look at the time?
is a Contributor Alumnus
So I'd like to talk about these two little gems.

Lickitung @ Eviolite
Ability: Cloud Nine / Own Tempo
Level: 5
EVs: 78 Def / 236 SDef / 196 HP
Careful Nature
- Wish / some other move
- Protect
- Knock Off / Return
- Icy Wind / Thunder Wave / Heal Bell / some other move

Abra @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Spd / 236 SAtk / 76 SDef
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Protect
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball / Hidden Power Fighting / Taunt / Dazzling Gleam (I hate you Scraggy just sayin)

Abra's thing speed tier is ridiculously high in here, and its basically like the deoxys-a of normal doubles. Life Orb boosted STAB Psychic hits everything hard and the remainder of the moves are really miscellanous stuff that covers for other things. It can live a move if needed, but its very very fragile. Its a nice mon in a place where fighting types are everywhere ;_;.

Lickitung on the other hand is like the Cresselia of standard doubles. Great mixed bulk on both sides of the spectrum, ability to slow down teams with Icy Wind or spread status relatively easily. Return still hits hard if it needs too while Knock Off makes it even more disruptive, and lets it become extremely anti misdreavus if needed. Wish gives recovery but I get its a weird move in doubles so it can be removed. This thing's movepool is insane though, I suggest it be tried out. Cloud Nine is obviously the superior ability but Own Tempo lets you use Wish, but again its viability is questionable...

For reference on how bulky it is look at how easily it takes a Vulpix's Fire Blast:
196 SpA Vulpix Fire Blast vs. 196 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Lickitung in Sun: 10-13 (35.7 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Unfortunately normal-types in a place where fighting types are everywhere (mienfoo / Scraggy / Meditite are all very very viable Pokemon) hurts it but I guess its ability to mess with Misdreavus makes it even better then.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top