i like the team :) how would you typically use the mew set?
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Smogon Doubles Ubers
- Thread starter Joim
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Lead with Mega Ray 90% of the time and xern the other 10%. Fake Out turn one while the partner sets up via SD/Geomancy or attacks. Turn 2 Ally Switch if your opponent is threatening to KO your partner this turn, Transform otherwise. Super Fang is used turn 1 occasionally if fake out isn't needed and Mega Ray / Geo Xern will not be able to KO a threat turn 2. For example opposing Arceus Steel, or Ho-oh & Pdon vs Xern will require a super fang.
awesome :) i've so far been creating teams with elements of all of this one, with a little side combo of cresselia/ primal groudon for cress to skill swap/moonlight etc. i really like that fake out/transform mew idea though :) if i was to use the team, because of my playstyle i would probably swap out arceus for a follow me/icy wind/HH jirachi set, then again it would leave the team a bit weak to groudon.
it's a really well built team and congrats on that 37-4 record :D
approved by ablast
now super-sized!
Welcome to the Smogon Doubles Ubers Viability Rankings post. In this post, I will be ranking the Pokemon of the tier in order of their effectiveness and use in the tier. Each position is open to discussion, there's absolutely no way that the list is 100% accurate! This list was put together by myself and KyleCole, so I would very very much appreciate everyone's suggestions because I want this VR to be as accurate as possible. We'll discuss changes as they are brought up, considering this thread is a bit smaller, so there will be no need for large large updates. Hope you guys enjoy this resource!
Tier One
Pokemon that have a good matchup vs a large portion of the metagame, are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.
Arceus-Steel
Groudon-Primal
Rayquaza-Mega
Xerneas
Tier One and a Half
Pokemon that are generally strong, but can be dead weight in some matchups, don't have great matchups vs a lot of Tier 1, or are only particularly useful for checking a certain team style.
Aegislash
Amoonguss
Arceus
Arceus-Ghost
Dialga
Ho-Oh
Kangaskhan-Mega
Kyogre-Primal
Mewtwo-Mega-Y
Palkia
Tier Two
Pokemon which, while good, only fit on a specific team style or require heavy support.
Arceus-Dark
Diancie-Mega
Gengar-Mega
Heatran
Kyurem-White
Landorus-Therian
Metagross-Mega
Mew
Mewtwo
Shaymin-Sky
Thundurus
now super-sized!
Welcome to the Smogon Doubles Ubers Viability Rankings post. In this post, I will be ranking the Pokemon of the tier in order of their effectiveness and use in the tier. Each position is open to discussion, there's absolutely no way that the list is 100% accurate! This list was put together by myself and KyleCole, so I would very very much appreciate everyone's suggestions because I want this VR to be as accurate as possible. We'll discuss changes as they are brought up, considering this thread is a bit smaller, so there will be no need for large large updates. Hope you guys enjoy this resource!
Tier One
Pokemon that have a good matchup vs a large portion of the metagame, are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.
Tier One and a Half
Pokemon that are generally strong, but can be dead weight in some matchups, don't have great matchups vs a lot of Tier 1, or are only particularly useful for checking a certain team style.
Tier Two
Pokemon which, while good, only fit on a specific team style or require heavy support.
No. The Pokemon in Tier 3 are likely never going to be used, so it's easier to keep the list shorter and more concise.
Stratos
Banned deucer.
both get tailwind; latios's special move is memento
The problem is steelceus is utter shit at even doing that
4 SpA Arceus-Steel Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Rayquaza in Strong Winds: 152-180 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO
that's barely even a 2hko. Whereas ray can just switch out or bop steelceus with its coverage moves (I have no clue what set you run but flying/normal coverage is awful) which is why v-create is ran on it.
252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Steel: 559-658 (125.9 - 148.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
utterly destroyed. Even in the case of eq
252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Steel: 234-276 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
ray still does huge amounts of damage to it and I'm not buying the whole ray doesn't run anything to hit steel argument that youv'e made.
That's about steelceus and that's about the only thing it can almost check. It is utterly crushed by xerneas/pdon/pogre/some variant of ekiller has absolutely no offensive presence due to garbage 120 SpA/atk and is forced to give up momentum for team support which is done better by other forms such as ghost or normal.
About aegis: This mon is bad. It is a soft check to xerneas at the absolute best and it loses literally everything in tier 1/.5 and by uber standards it is weak and not particularly bulky by any means without full investment.
I'd rather almost use rockceus over steelceus since in addition to the niche of beating ray somewhat reliably (ray's only options are like draco/spread reduced eq) it also beats ho-oh which is another top tier threat.
tl;dr Steelceus drop to 2 if even that for being a terrible check to the big 4 mons in the meta and also forced to give up the use of another arc form
aegis removed for being terrible
edit: Also remove every mega that isn't mega ray/kanga/mawile since they all have an infinite opportunity cost of being unable to use any of the former three.
where's gira-o :[ it avoids precipice blades, lives life orb DA from mega ray, resists pogres stab, and is immune to kanga stuff. it gets tw which is pretty cool. its nice to have on a team to serve as a decent blanket check to a lot of things.
also tr is quite good and cress is still a really reliable setter. tier 2 at least along with mega mawile, a solid tr mega that just needs support getting rid of pdonner.
also tr is quite good and cress is still a really reliable setter. tier 2 at least along with mega mawile, a solid tr mega that just needs support getting rid of pdonner.
Is there an effective cores thread? because i have 1 core I'd like to post.
Arceus @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Extremespeed
- Swords Dance
- Tailwind
- Protect / Shadow Claw
Arceus runs right through everything that Groudon can't already (aside from Giratina-O) after a Swords Dance with Life Orb Extremespeed. I use Tailwind so that I can get Primal Groudon a speed boost against things it might want to outspeed, and you can either run Shadow Claw to beat Giratina-O or Protect (I prefer Protect>Shadow Claw though).
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Def / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge
- Protect
Primal Groudon lives 2 hits of Primal Kyogre Ice Beam, outspeeds base 150's in Tailwind, and then I just maxed atk and dumped the rest into def for the spread. This set just runs right through most of the meta, with Stone Edge allowing me to hit past Aegislash's Wide Guard at things like Ho-oh (because more than likely both opponents aren't weak to rock anyway) and Fire Punch does as well to beat Aegislash alone while getting the strong sun boosted STAB attack.
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Extremespeed
- Swords Dance
- Tailwind
- Protect / Shadow Claw
Arceus runs right through everything that Groudon can't already (aside from Giratina-O) after a Swords Dance with Life Orb Extremespeed. I use Tailwind so that I can get Primal Groudon a speed boost against things it might want to outspeed, and you can either run Shadow Claw to beat Giratina-O or Protect (I prefer Protect>Shadow Claw though).
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Def / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge
- Protect
Primal Groudon lives 2 hits of Primal Kyogre Ice Beam, outspeeds base 150's in Tailwind, and then I just maxed atk and dumped the rest into def for the spread. This set just runs right through most of the meta, with Stone Edge allowing me to hit past Aegislash's Wide Guard at things like Ho-oh (because more than likely both opponents aren't weak to rock anyway) and Fire Punch does as well to beat Aegislash alone while getting the strong sun boosted STAB attack.
Is Deoxys-A any good in Doubles Ubers? If so, what is the best nature for it?
Run either Lonely (+Atk, -Def), Naughty (+Atk, -SpD), Mild (+SpA, -Def), or Rash (+SpA, -SpD). This is because you don't need the +speed for Deoxys-A since 399 Speed outspeeds pretty much everything. The only real item to use on it is Focus Sash due to its awful bulk and, while redirection+Life Orb may sound good, our two primals love using spread moves. I'd run a +Atk nature if I were mainly physically attacking, and a +SpA nature if not. Mixed is very very useful on Deoxys-A which is why I didn't say Modest or Adamant. imo it's a good mon that picks up very useful KOs.
Soul Dew makes it bulkier than Latios, without Soul Dew it's hard for Latias or Latios to tank a hit in DUbers and Latias does it very well with its existence.
Arcticblast edit: don't double post
Last edited by a moderator:
My Kyogre bias aside I do feel like he deserves to be in tier 1. Rain is fantastic for teammates, espically those who are weak to fire. (Steelceus really loves his rain, Palkia likes having his water STAB buffed, and Thundurus appreciates 100% thunders.) A psych up Primal Kyogre can also copy an Xerneas' stat change so those rain boosted Orgin Pulses STABS are going to hit a LOT harder. I also feel that he really doesn't have to worry about Primal Groudon as much as he does in singles, and Ray's defenses are crap so he's quickly overwhelmed. (Although Kyogre still has to be careful about not getting outsped and OHKO'd)
I'm not a big dubers player, but I'm still about as good at it as Doubles OU so I might as well take a crack at this. I have a lot of suggestions, but it will be mainly based off of assumptions I pick up from this thread as well as my AG experience (I don't have a lot of AG experience, but I do understand the basics of the meta-game, and it has many similarities to Dubers despite being singles, as the top threat list is almost the same and the additional threats not in AG I assume are due to the ability to run Trick Room/Tailwind/Rage Powder effectively).
First I'll talk about Primal Kyogre.
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I also would like to say something about Giratina-O, Dialga, and Aegislash. They can be easily changed between each other, depending on your team's weakness to any combination of Primal Groudon/Primal Kyogre/Mega Rayquaza, with Giratina-O being the optimal Pokemon for a weakness to Primal Groudon/Primal Kyogre, Dialga being the optimal Pokemon for a weakness to Primal Kyogre/Mega Rayquaza, and Aegislash being one that can work for any combination really, though not as well as the others due to its niche move Wide Guard. Aegislash is fine at Tier 1.5, but I would like to see Giratina-O and Dialga in Tier 2, due to both of them only being used for their own methods of walling a specific combination of the Hoenn Trio. They do deserve credit for being good at providing speed control, however, as Giratina-O provides Tailwind for its teammates and Dialga brings Trick Room to the table, a very forgotten meta type in Dubers.
--
I also have a few points to make about Tier 1.5. I believe the balance of power there is uneven, and there are some things in Tier 1.5 that are clearly better than the others. I don't believe that the stronger shoulds move up to Tier 1 or that the weaker should move down to Tier 2, but I believe that in order to clarify that Tier 2 is the bottom and Tier 1 is the top while still showing that certain parts of Tier 1.5 are better than the others, the rankings should be divided as Tier 1/Tier 1.33/Tier 1.67/Tier 2. I have lists prepared of where the 1.5 Pokemon would be split up below, and I didn't modify Tier 1.5 from the original (I even kept Dialga at Tier 1.5, as it was only a concept to drop it) as well as reasons for why each one is above or below the midpoint of 1.5.
I would be okay with anything that is rejected,as I'm really just trying to argue a few points that I currently hold to be true until somebody can present evidence that my statements were incorrect. However, I would like to see other peoples' opinions on splitting up Tier 1.5.
First I'll talk about Primal Kyogre.
Primal Kyogre isn't Tier 1 because of Primal Groudon/Mega Rayquaza/Arceus/Giratina/Xerneas viability. It doesn't have the most favorable matchups against these, as I will write below.
Primal Kyogre vs Primal Groudon - We know who wins when Desolate Land is in effect. Primal Kyogre has to switch or try to Ice Beam or something, but it can't Origin Pulse at all until Desolate Land gets canceled, but Primal Groudon can still do shit in Primordial Sea, dealing up to 50% to it with Precipice Blades (proof: 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 226-267 (55.9 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) while a partner deals damage to it too, such as the great offensive partner Arceus-Normal.
Primal Kyogre vs Mega Rayquaza - 252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 356-421 (88.1 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO - needless to say what this means.
Primal Kyogre vs Arceus - Once again this does not favor Primal Kyogre. It can deal a whopping 75% at max roll to uninvested Arceus (proof: 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus in Heavy Rain: 241-285 (63.2 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) while Arceus does about 50% max roll with Life Orb Extreme Speed (proof: 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 175-208 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO). This may seem like a win for Primal Kyogre, but let's imagine a different scenario. Imagine you just brought in Primal Kyogre to this Arceus and it was accommodated by redirection. In this scenario, we likely have an Amoonguss using Rage Powder because Arceus doesn't just sit there and set up all on its own. Amoonguss is either redirecting Primal Kyogre's partner's attack or it's using Spore on Primal Kyogre, which is annoying. Amoonguss doesn't take a fucking Ice Beam though - why should this be important? It's important because Arceus gets up an easy +2 from Swords Dance and out speeds Primal Kyogre easily with Extreme Speed, though Jolly Life Orb has a 12.5% chance to OHKO (proof: +2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 351-413 (86.8 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO)
Primal Kyogre vs Giratina - Giratina doesn't look like the kind of guy who likes Ice Beam, but he is. Primal Kyogre only does 12.5% to Giratina (proof: 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Giratina: 236-278 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO) which isn't a lot and it easily tanks Origin Pulse. Giratina-Origin is probably going to be more reasonable a discussion, however, as it does have the great immunity to Precipice Blades and Earthquake (by the way where is that on the viability rankings? it needs to be added, it's a great mon).
Primal Kyogre vs Xerneas - I'll just let calculations do most of the talking here. If there's one thing to say here it's that Xerneas out speeds and can set up Geomancy very easily.
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas in Heavy Rain: 288-339 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - not a good switchin for Xerneas
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas in Heavy Rain: 144-171 (31.5 - 37.5%) -- 88% chance to 3HKO - this is good if your Xerneas is out against Primal Kyogre and didn't just switch in
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 304-358 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - not a good switchin for Primal Kyogre
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas in Harsh Sunshine: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time - Primal Kyogre just got its team destroyed by a fucking Xerneas because of a Primal Groudon switchin...
Primal Kyogre vs Mega Rayquaza - 252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 356-421 (88.1 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO - needless to say what this means.
Primal Kyogre vs Arceus - Once again this does not favor Primal Kyogre. It can deal a whopping 75% at max roll to uninvested Arceus (proof: 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus in Heavy Rain: 241-285 (63.2 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) while Arceus does about 50% max roll with Life Orb Extreme Speed (proof: 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 175-208 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO). This may seem like a win for Primal Kyogre, but let's imagine a different scenario. Imagine you just brought in Primal Kyogre to this Arceus and it was accommodated by redirection. In this scenario, we likely have an Amoonguss using Rage Powder because Arceus doesn't just sit there and set up all on its own. Amoonguss is either redirecting Primal Kyogre's partner's attack or it's using Spore on Primal Kyogre, which is annoying. Amoonguss doesn't take a fucking Ice Beam though - why should this be important? It's important because Arceus gets up an easy +2 from Swords Dance and out speeds Primal Kyogre easily with Extreme Speed, though Jolly Life Orb has a 12.5% chance to OHKO (proof: +2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 351-413 (86.8 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO)
Primal Kyogre vs Giratina - Giratina doesn't look like the kind of guy who likes Ice Beam, but he is. Primal Kyogre only does 12.5% to Giratina (proof: 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Giratina: 236-278 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO) which isn't a lot and it easily tanks Origin Pulse. Giratina-Origin is probably going to be more reasonable a discussion, however, as it does have the great immunity to Precipice Blades and Earthquake (by the way where is that on the viability rankings? it needs to be added, it's a great mon).
Primal Kyogre vs Xerneas - I'll just let calculations do most of the talking here. If there's one thing to say here it's that Xerneas out speeds and can set up Geomancy very easily.
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas in Heavy Rain: 288-339 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - not a good switchin for Xerneas
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas in Heavy Rain: 144-171 (31.5 - 37.5%) -- 88% chance to 3HKO - this is good if your Xerneas is out against Primal Kyogre and didn't just switch in
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 304-358 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - not a good switchin for Primal Kyogre
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas in Harsh Sunshine: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time - Primal Kyogre just got its team destroyed by a fucking Xerneas because of a Primal Groudon switchin...
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I also would like to say something about Giratina-O, Dialga, and Aegislash. They can be easily changed between each other, depending on your team's weakness to any combination of Primal Groudon/Primal Kyogre/Mega Rayquaza, with Giratina-O being the optimal Pokemon for a weakness to Primal Groudon/Primal Kyogre, Dialga being the optimal Pokemon for a weakness to Primal Kyogre/Mega Rayquaza, and Aegislash being one that can work for any combination really, though not as well as the others due to its niche move Wide Guard. Aegislash is fine at Tier 1.5, but I would like to see Giratina-O and Dialga in Tier 2, due to both of them only being used for their own methods of walling a specific combination of the Hoenn Trio. They do deserve credit for being good at providing speed control, however, as Giratina-O provides Tailwind for its teammates and Dialga brings Trick Room to the table, a very forgotten meta type in Dubers.
--
I also have a few points to make about Tier 1.5. I believe the balance of power there is uneven, and there are some things in Tier 1.5 that are clearly better than the others. I don't believe that the stronger shoulds move up to Tier 1 or that the weaker should move down to Tier 2, but I believe that in order to clarify that Tier 2 is the bottom and Tier 1 is the top while still showing that certain parts of Tier 1.5 are better than the others, the rankings should be divided as Tier 1/Tier 1.33/Tier 1.67/Tier 2. I have lists prepared of where the 1.5 Pokemon would be split up below, and I didn't modify Tier 1.5 from the original (I even kept Dialga at Tier 1.5, as it was only a concept to drop it) as well as reasons for why each one is above or below the midpoint of 1.5.
Aegislash - Very good with Wide Guard against the Primals and resists Dragon Ascent and Extreme Speed, while also boasting a base 150 Attack and Special Attack stat.
Amoonguss - Redirection in this meta-game is really good when you can get things on your team to boost to high heaven and annihilate things, and it can Spore spam against the rare Trick Room teams.
Arceus - After a Swords Dance, it has little trouble against anything Primal Groudon hates except for Giratina variants while also having a great supportive move pool with access to Will-o-wisp and Tailwind.
Ho-oh - Amazingly powerful Brave Birds and Sacred Fires can almost destroy anything it touches. This thing would be Tier 1 if it weren't for Mega Rayquaza existing in my opinion.
Primal Kyogre - While I did say it couldn't fit into Tier 1 well, this thing with enough support can cause nervousness in its opponents. With whatever speed control it gets, it will be able to adapt to it well and Origin Pulse in Heavy Rain really does hit the rest of the metagame besides the top offensive threats, Giratina-O, and Dialga for a hell of a lot of hit-points. It also assists a few Pokemon against things like Primal Groudon depending on the situation.
Palkia - Palkia hits very hard with a high critical hit ratio STAB in Spacial Rend and a great speed tier at 100, just so easily out speeding the low base 90 speed that practically every main Legendary has as well as the base 99 speed that Xerneas and Yveltal got despite not really touching them anyway. The speed alone doesn't make it a major threat - it also has an incredibly high Special Attack stat and Lustrous Orb, one of the coolest items in the game, and very good defensive as well as offensive typing for this meta-game.
Amoonguss - Redirection in this meta-game is really good when you can get things on your team to boost to high heaven and annihilate things, and it can Spore spam against the rare Trick Room teams.
Arceus - After a Swords Dance, it has little trouble against anything Primal Groudon hates except for Giratina variants while also having a great supportive move pool with access to Will-o-wisp and Tailwind.
Ho-oh - Amazingly powerful Brave Birds and Sacred Fires can almost destroy anything it touches. This thing would be Tier 1 if it weren't for Mega Rayquaza existing in my opinion.
Primal Kyogre - While I did say it couldn't fit into Tier 1 well, this thing with enough support can cause nervousness in its opponents. With whatever speed control it gets, it will be able to adapt to it well and Origin Pulse in Heavy Rain really does hit the rest of the metagame besides the top offensive threats, Giratina-O, and Dialga for a hell of a lot of hit-points. It also assists a few Pokemon against things like Primal Groudon depending on the situation.
Palkia - Palkia hits very hard with a high critical hit ratio STAB in Spacial Rend and a great speed tier at 100, just so easily out speeding the low base 90 speed that practically every main Legendary has as well as the base 99 speed that Xerneas and Yveltal got despite not really touching them anyway. The speed alone doesn't make it a major threat - it also has an incredibly high Special Attack stat and Lustrous Orb, one of the coolest items in the game, and very good defensive as well as offensive typing for this meta-game.
Arceus-Ghost - It takes up the Arceus slot, which is kind of useful for Swords Dance/Extreme Speed, but it does have an immunity to Extreme Speed and Mewtwo Aura Sphere to consider, as well as supportive moves such as Will-o-wisp and Tailwind.
Dialga - Aegislash is just so much easier to use over Dialga due to Wide Guard blocking Precipice Blades, though not 100% outclassed because Dialga actually does bring other things to the table, such as Trick Room and a way to deal big damage to Xerneas as well as Mega Rayquaza and not be completely fucked over by facing them.
Mega Kangaskhan - While Kangaskhan has a very big influence on the Doubles OU metagame, it doesn't give itself a real niche that Arceus doesn't have, aside from it being able to boost while Taunted, Fighting coverage, and Fake Out. It also takes up Mega Rayquaza's mega slot.
Mega Mewtwo Y - Mega Mewtwo Y can hit for good damage, but it can't take an Extreme Speed or Precipice Blades or Dragon Ascent from the top threats of the metagame and takes Mega Rayquaza's mega slot, though its immunity to Spore and its decent Special Defense allow it to be a useful Pokemon in the metagame.
Dialga - Aegislash is just so much easier to use over Dialga due to Wide Guard blocking Precipice Blades, though not 100% outclassed because Dialga actually does bring other things to the table, such as Trick Room and a way to deal big damage to Xerneas as well as Mega Rayquaza and not be completely fucked over by facing them.
Mega Kangaskhan - While Kangaskhan has a very big influence on the Doubles OU metagame, it doesn't give itself a real niche that Arceus doesn't have, aside from it being able to boost while Taunted, Fighting coverage, and Fake Out. It also takes up Mega Rayquaza's mega slot.
Mega Mewtwo Y - Mega Mewtwo Y can hit for good damage, but it can't take an Extreme Speed or Precipice Blades or Dragon Ascent from the top threats of the metagame and takes Mega Rayquaza's mega slot, though its immunity to Spore and its decent Special Defense allow it to be a useful Pokemon in the metagame.
I would be okay with anything that is rejected,as I'm really just trying to argue a few points that I currently hold to be true until somebody can present evidence that my statements were incorrect. However, I would like to see other peoples' opinions on splitting up Tier 1.5.
I really don't think Giratina threatens Kyogre to much, it can be annoying but it's not going to be hitting back that hard either. Plus most people would favour its Origine Forme. (Being immune to precipice blades and PDon's Fire STAB is really nice, and it can spread WoW.)
As for Ekiller Arceus I'm not sure if it'll be common enough, especially if Mega Ray can do the same thing while hitting harder. Plus if Steelceus is considered the best Arc form then there's there opportunity cost as well.
I second having multiple tiers though, having just three tiers just isn't enough.
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