1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. Please refer to this thread for the current Smogon Tier Lists.
  3. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Smogon Premier League 2 - Week 2

Discussion in 'Smogon Premier League' started by LonelyNess, Jan 23, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. reachzero

    reachzero the pastor of disaster
    is a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,524
    The biggest difference between the Smogon Tournament and SPL is that the Smogon Tournament is an individual event, whereas the SPL is a team event. There is no reason to suspect things like ghosting in the ST, because there is no incentive to help other individuals when you may need to face them later. In a team event, there is a major incentive to help other teammates, and thus a major risk of ghosting. Why would Iconic want to play Folgorio in a situation where there is a major risk that he could actually be playing Gouki? I could understand if this was the SPL playoffs, but this isn't. Also, since this is a ruling that affects every game of every team, including LonelyNess' team and LonelyNess' games, I would like to know why he even has the jurisdiction here as opposed to Mekkah.
  2. Eternal

    Eternal
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,536
    I agree with Phil. This is a team tournament, but the difference is that your team is not the one battling for/with you, you are the only one battling. I see no reason to force the opposition to allow scouting if they don't want to. Scouting is as limited as it can be through the restriction of spectators. Having a notion that everyone's team is going to be revealed anyways because of your opponent sharing logs is not helping this situation in any way. Sure you might say that since this is a team tournament everyone and their teams should cheer for their teammate, but this can be done through their respective team's IRC channel. Every team has an IRC channel. Every tournament I've played in, I've always respected by opponent of whether he/she wants to allow spectators or make the battle private regardless of it being a team tournament or not.

    By the way, I'm not agreeing with Philip because I don't want my opponents to scout my team. I really don't care if anyone scouts my teams, I tend to use different teams every round. I'm agreeing because it is logically reasonable.
  3. Solace

    Solace i sneezed on the beat and the beat got sicker
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,071
    tay hasnt been on since 3am my time yesterday, so activity post i guess?

    sent him a PM yesterday at 8:30am, so he hasnt been on to see it...
  4. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL + WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    8,335

    So how would you like if you pressed ignore specs and then you think you're making great moves but then I'm over here sitting telling him what it looks like you're going to do when he didn't even think of that?
  5. LonelyNess

    LonelyNess PK FLASH
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    3,339
    This is not forcing scouting. As I said, there is a way to accommodate the player who wishes to disallow spectators because he's worried about scouting. You can play on a different server, you can play using different names, you can just not tell anyone except teammates. There are ways of preventing scouting WITHOUT preventing teammates from viewing matches.

    And as far as the worries of ghosting: if folgorio wants to ghost, he's going to ghost, regardless of whether or not his team is actually in the battle - he can just copy / paste the log into #carlsucks, wait 10 seconds for his team to pick his move and then make it. You guys are so worried about ghosting when, to be perfectly honest, I'm pretty sure it doesn't even happen. There's a thing people have called "competitive pride". Do you know how shitty it would feel to not even be making your own moves in a tournament match? Why even join the tournament if you're just going to have someone play for you? I am unconvinced that even a single match in the Smogon Premier League has been legitimately ghost-battled. You're all so worried about something that isn't even happening.

    Why you guys are so obstinate to a ruling that will literally change nothing while at the same time has the ability to make both parties happy is beyond me. It's like you're just whining for the sake of whining, now.
  6. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,072
    LN, you're ridiculously naive if you think ghosting doesn't happen. Also, do you know how much harder it is to follow a match from copy/pasted text as opposed to sitting in the match watching yourself? Not to mention the extra time it takes to do so in battles that should have timer clause on. I don't see how you can even attempt to argue that it makes no difference in terms of ghosting whether or not there are spectators allowed. You are absolutely not making both parties happy, as this has never been the norm at all and you're forcing users who prefer battling in private to not do so if their opponent wants spectators. This ruling makes absolutely 0 sense.
  7. LonelyNess

    LonelyNess PK FLASH
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    3,339
    Why should the player who doesn't want spectators take precedence of the person who does when they're just "preferences"

    Why are his desires more justified than the person who wants to let their teammate watch?

    Why should you get to overrule HIS desires in favor of your own when YOUR desires can be met AT THE SAME TIME.

    There are two reasons for not wanting spectators:

    You're worried about scouting - Ok, then do as I've said, play on a different server, play not with your forum names, don't tell anyone except teammates that you're playing.

    You're worried about ghosting - If your opponent is going to ghost, he's going to ghost regardless of whether or not they're actually in the battle. If you can't copy paste a log into an IRC chat in less than 5 seconds (actually time it you know where you say out loud 'one one-thousand'), then I question your ability to actually use a computer....
    -___-

    So both of the reasons for disallowing spectators can be accommodated via means OTHER THAN DISALLOWING SPECTATORS (or simply can't be prevented period).

    Once again I say, why would we be more restrictive when we don't HAVE to be more restrictive.
  8. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,501
    Wouldn't really matter to me, honestly. I'm playing the game to the best of my ability. If my opponent relies on the comments/help of others to the extent that he can't make decisions for himself, that's his personal issue and an indication of his ability as a player. Regardless, even if you or anyone else call me out on a move, it just becomes my mission to become less predictable or work around whatever you throw my way.

    PS: I ignore specs in all tournament matches.
  9. whistle

    whistle
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,676
    phil you seem extremely versed in the mechanics of ghost battling and certain that it happens... is there anything you'd like to tell us
  10. Synre

    Synre
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,588
    Mostly just posting because LN is NAGGING me but my opinion here is pretty obvious and ghosting has nothing to do with it. I suspect incidents of ghosting are greatly exaggerated; I would be reasonably surprised if it happens at all in this tournament at all in the sense people in this thread mean it. I think it is normally an excuse for getting outplayed by someone people think they are better than but didn't come up with the win against. I do expect opposition to have some level of collusion in a tournament like this regardless of specs being on or not during big moves; I don't think that's something you're going to stamp out of an event like this because it's a pretty decent part of what team tournaments are. To me that is something we can tolerate but is a big difference from actually having a teammate play for you, which is obviously unacceptable. I'm really not sure why people are so paranoid about us doing that, we don't, we haven't, and there is rarely anyone who actually plays pokemon well enough to do it on my team online even if we wanted to this season since we're all pretty busy during the school year.

    There isn't much motivation to own a team if I can't watch any of the matches. If I wanted to not-watch a team I'm managing I'd run a fantasy golf team or something.
  11. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,335
    Simply because the person who allows their teammate to watch wins/loses nothing outside of the possibility of being ghost battled (lol), while the person who wants to disallow spectators has his team revealed. Summing it up, the person who allows specs doesn't win a thing (theoretically; that is in a world that SPL is a tournament in which people trust each other's battling capabilities and don't do ghosting); while the person who doesn't want specs will no longer be able to use that team and risks ghosting (and let's be very blunt, it does happen). Logs spread you say, but it's much more easy to tell one person not to spread the log than a whole team; not to mention people shouldn't be pressured to play on other servers.
  12. B-Lulz

    B-Lulz You ain't gotta love it 'cos the hood gone love it
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2008
    Messages:
    1,385
    who gives a shit about being ghosted, if you win you win, if you lose shut up.

    GO SHARKS
  13. Stellar

    Stellar true and everlasting
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Orange Islands

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,397
    Thank you Brits for a fun and challenging week!
  14. Kinneas

    Kinneas
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,192
    GG Ruiners and good luck in the rest of the tournament!
  15. spies

    spies

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,393
    It is really noticeable when specs are disallowed though (as it happened to me last year hehehe)
  16. 6A9 Ace Matador

    6A9 Ace Matador veni, vidi, vici, VERSACE, VERSACE VERSACE
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,755
    posting 2 say i agree w/ lonelyness SPLs fun since your teams and managers watch the battles, if specs clause is on all the time it'd detract a lot from the tourney imo no teams are going to ghost battle unless their managers are fags and their players suck so just leave that argument out imo
  17. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,528
    In the same vein, should the rule be changed to make "no spectators" the first option, I suspect that the number of people who would disallow spectators against their opponents' wishes would not be a huge one.
  18. Synre

    Synre
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,588
    The people demanding that they get preference with disallow specs sort of disproves that theory I think.
  19. Atticus

    Atticus Atticus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnuswon the 10th Official Smogon Tournamentis a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,376
    i tried to play but the game wouldnt let me, gg reach....
  20. gene

    gene GENE
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL + WCoP Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,723
    what a game, what a week
  21. reachzero

    reachzero the pastor of disaster
    is a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,524
    Crit Atticus' ___, QUAGSIRE got it, won, gg.
  22. locopoke

    locopoke indulges in unsavory behavior
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Messages:
    2,805
    wilson got smacked, ban rankurusu
  23. wilson46

    wilson46
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    709
    noob'd out by locopoke, tfp and good job.
  24. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
    is a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Battle Spot Leader

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    Messages:
    3,009
    BIGS may not be able to flinch for dick but at least we got the heart of the criticals
  25. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    5,570
    wait do some people not ghost??
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)