Smogon Premier League VII - Comemesment

[RODAN]

hey guys lets try to keep this spl fun and free of drama!

 

[Windsong]

"important"

classy

 

[dice]

i aint even seen my team yet but these preauction settlements makin me more likely to have an unexpected backpacking trip for 3 months

 

[dice]

man js tho u gotta give ciele mad props for tht trade rape

 

[WhiteQueen]

Dice you're hot af.

 

[Leftiez]

The Circus Maximus Tigers Credits: 3500 | Players: Yagura / During Summer / badabing / Laga / Sapientia / Afro Smash / Asuya / GeeMick / Bouffalant / ArchPhantom / teal6 / Shaneghoul / Golden Gyarados / pokebasket / CyberOdin / Disenchanted / GOD MARTH / Get this Money

ORAS OU: GeeMick
ORAS OU: ArchPhantom

GM AP

I didn't buy them for just being underrated, that's also because they are very close and can manage to work together more easily in addition to be really good at ORAS OU. Vamos!

ORAS UU: teal6

teal6

VoD skwad wins again, classic.

ORAS DOUBLES: Laga

Laga

Just because he's godly at this tier n_n

ORAS RU: Afro Smash
ORAS NU: Bouffalant

Bouff and Afro

Same as my ORAS OU core, Afro and Bouff are very close and can both work/test together. Relationship is important during SPL

ORAS LC: Yagura

Yagura

Yagura is probably one of the nicest person i know on smogon, he's always there when it comes to help people which is a good quality for an SPL teammate, plus he's really solid at LC

BW OU: Badabing

Badaking

Badabing is good, is friend and is really close to sweepage, do i have to explain more?

DPP OU: Sapientia

Sapientia

Even though you don't see him much in tournament scene nowadays, i can tell that this man is kinda underrated, the reason i bought him is especially because it makes him as an unpredictable but decent teammate

ADV OU: CyberOdin

Od1

yeah he can this *-*

GSC OU: During Summer

During Summer

Old gens player are always hard to find, the fact i bought him is because i heard a lot of good things about him as a GSC/RBY'er and he doesn't sound like a toxic player. Would be an honor to work with you guy.

RBY OU: Golden Gyarados

Golden Gyarados

Golden Gyarados -> GG -> Golden GG -> GG, seems logic to me, he will just bring every wins at home in a golden manner ;]

Bench.. Uh i meant Substitutes: Asuya / GOD MARTH / Shaneghoul / Pokebasket / Disenchanted / Get this money

Also...

dekbot> The Wifi Wolfpack Credits: 16500 | Players: blarajan / Isa / Christo The Gr8 / undisputed / Conflict / xray / dice / reyscarface / 49
<dekbot> The Wifi Wolfpack up to nominate. Bidders: rh156
<@Nails> god get this clown
<@Nails> off my bidding line
<@Nails> has no clue about mock auction gameplans

5mins later...

<rh156> ur team is terrible
<Leftiez> look at your team
<Leftiez> idiot
(meaning he didn't even have enough people for starting line up)
<rh156> it would shit on urs?
<rh156> LOOOOL
<@Nails> ur incorrect rh156


enough said ^^
Shoutouts praj.pran and Mazar my co-managers!

 

[Cronenberg]

Next time when I raise I've to bluff better than today ..anyhow I made the lord squad eheh

 

[kokoloko]

can someone please tell me why shake is undoing all my hard work last season

help

 

[-Tsunami-]

can someone please tell me why shake is undoing all my hard work last season

help

dont worry im retaining chimpact.

 

[leremyju]

Hey Leftiez thanks for your excellent insight in what you were looking for and your thought process this mock draft. Unfortunately I believe you are slightly biased, so I will help give you a reality check with some objective analysis.


Leftiez has a decent lineup of OU players. His decent Lower tier players definitely stand a chance. After assembling a promising lineup Leftiez floundered selecting a bench mostly of OU players similar to the arousement levels of a girl before and after I showed her my erect 1 inch demolisher.

Assistant Manager: praj.pran - very cute user who should have beaten McMeghan in OST, which Whitequeen won.
Assistant Manager: Mazar - I don't want to say I have no idea who he is but there can only be one Assistant Manager. And he is praj.pran.

ORAS OU: GeeMick - excellent builder who has a mix of creativity and non bullshit gimmickry. Should be very successful based off his WCoP performance
ORAS OU: ArchPhantom - this is a decent OU player. He has some nice creative builds and should work well with GeeMick. Really capable of making predictions but it will be interesting to see how he fares vs experience players.
ORAS UU: teal6 - sorry don't know you
ORAS RU: Afro Smash - top 3 RU player, but his dedication to maining the low tier Samus in Smash may hinder his performance.
ORAS NU: Bouffalant - I don't even know if he's an NU player but he is a decent player.
ORAS LC: Yagura - great builder but I haven't seen him really show up in tours, or maybe I don't follow LC.
ORAS Doubles: Laga - apparently a lucky and good player, according to Stratos. but fuck Stratos.
BW OU: badabing - sorry don't really know you
DPP OU: Sapientia - a versatile player who will be able to help with this experience. Underrated? Not really.
ADV OU: CyberOdin - good player, if he can shake his rust off while definitely shine.
GSC OU: During Summer - a quality player who is very skilled. Will be able to help in RBY and play it.
RBY OU: Golden Gyarados - another good old gens player who can work well with During Summer.
Bench: Asuya - SPL winner last year and good BW player, should be starting there IMO.
Bench: GOD MARTH - skilled and experienced player, could definitely be starting.
Bench: Shaneghoul - sorry don't know you
Bench: Pokebasket - decent player who is versatile but hasn't particularly impressed in anything.
Bench: Disenchanted - supposed to be good since he made tour playoffs. Will be good if sogeking isn't busy ghosting papai noel
Bench: Get this Money - sorry don't know you

 

[no longer here]

 

[Lady Bug]

Is this where you post logos for teams? If so I'd like to show my logo for my dream team and hopefully one day I'll make it to the squad.

 

[Nails]

dekbot> The Wifi Wolfpack Credits: 16500 | Players: blarajan / Isa / Christo The Gr8 / undisputed / Conflict / xray / dice / reyscarface / 49
<dekbot> The Wifi Wolfpack up to nominate. Bidders: rh156
<@Nails> god get this clown
<@Nails> off my bidding line
<@Nails> has no clue about mock auction gameplans

<rh156> ur team is terrible
<Leftiez> look at your team
<Leftiez> idiot
(meaning he didn't even have enough people for starting line up)
<rh156> it would shit on urs?
<rh156> LOOOOL
<@Nails> ur incorrect rh156

both of these quotes are out of context, the first one was talking about cased and meant in a joking manner because it's a mock auction. second one was at rh's earlier comment about there being no good players left in the draft.

with that said i stand by your interpretation of my comments.

awoo out.

 

[Euphonos]

If I weren't picked by any of the SPL managers, I will lurk each and every one of them and let them feel the biggest regret of their life.

 

[ronniesportman]

Please pick me nobody knows me but I am pretty good

 

[Scofield]

damn...ciele or baika has been on every iteration of the ruiners for 7 years straight now...talk about keeping it in the family!

 

[idiotfrommars]

ronniesportman just put your ladder peaks in your sig. It worked for me in spl 2. Thank you based locopoke.

 

[jake]

ronniesportman just put your ladder peaks in your sig. It worked for me in spl 2. Thank you based locopoke.

confirming that it also worked for me in SPL 3

 

[Smurf.]

With the amount of mindless luck on that fucking smogtours server I could pick any 14 random users and win this tournament.

 

[Dread Arceus]

q: can we keep a record of how many times the timer wins?
i have this running theory that the timer actually has more wins than any tour player

 

[Stratos]

I'm going to address this because I think the topic is interesting and want to actually clarify my post rather than "fire back". It actually might have applications to other tiers, especially in a league like this where some players may bounce around, so maybe others outside of Dubs/VGC have thoughts on it, too.

This isn't even a community or clique thing, there's people that like to play Smogdubs competitively but don't play the specific tier regularly and are probably really good at it because there isn't much of a barrier once you get the concept of 6v6 over 4v4. No one has to be in the community playing the exact tier to have knowledge of how to build and play the tier. The similarities are incredibly striking and I still think you undervalue that. Being in a community that plays the game is cool and all and has some benefits in terms of an initial learning curve, but at the end of the day when incoming players get over that curve you're only pulling for your friends/comrades (you're not doing it consciously or intentionally but due to what you value because all you've seen is from playing only one sort of subpar tier very competitively). If someone finds a player who has extensive practice in any tier with deep competition and they're dedicated to learning the mechanisms of Doubles OU in time, I think they're worth much more of a shot. What I'm getting at is playing in formats with deep competition validates your playing ability a lot more than one like Doubles OU.

This isn't a "you log a lot of time and you'll have a free pass to success because of effort" thing, this is a "who is most competitively fit for this" thing. I'd make the case that the people who play VGC and sign up for this league face much stiffer competition in a much more similar competitive environment to SPL than anyone who plays in the Doubles circuit (which is comparatively tiny and imho doesn't offer a wide variety of high-level competition). When it comes to SPL, the only variable that changes (and it's only ever so slightly) is the ruleset at hand. It doesn't take a whole lot of time to transition the things learned from 4v4 and apply them to 6v6.

The reason I made the comment I did was because the list of players you have probably doesn't stack up to some of the top players on the list of people totally uninvolved in your community that will sign. Throw Mizu, Finally, and yourself into the mix and maybe you've got something I'm a little more excited about, but I don't recognize about half of the names on that list and the of the ones I do recognize and have seen play I really haven't seen anything inspiring from most of them. Not to say that they won't be good teammates or don't have great work ethic or win a few games, but when it comes time to play and you're facing off against people who have heaps more experience against players like them, it's not a favorable position to be in. Also not saying none of them will do well, as I think there's potential for a good run with one or two of those names, but it's not as conclusive as you make it sound.

Also super related but I'm curious if this type of transition is a thing among other tiers and if the transition between them is as easily abated by being really good at the most prestigious one(s) (OU probably being the kingpin here). Maybe I'm completely wrong in assuming so. From what I've heard and experienced I'm led to think otherwise but I definitely can't claim to know for sure and I'm interested in opinions.


(Actual player eval / draft talk here, disregard if you dgaf about Doubles)

Hide

To supplement the get-to-the-point post I made on the last page... well, there was Lohgock, who even though was apparently mostly "you" I don't think is a bad player and also has good experience playing VGC and other formats, too, so I think that one is mostly irrelevant to the point here. Your other positive-record examples would be Laga, Mizu, and Finally, and before the draft last year I wouldn't have argued with you placing Finally above a lot of VGCers (would have argued Mizu but I think she proved she belonged up there.) The only one returning is Laga who probably should given another "VGCer" a positive record and maybe not had one himself, considering he got a defense boost on every single Diamond Storm and still only had a ~30% chance to beat Biosci and got it week 1. He also got an incredibly pivotal freeze vs TFC and got a flinch vs SoulSur where he probably lost if he didn't flinch that very turn. Also had pretty much lost to Zubat if Zubat hit either of the two Rock Slides. See why I'm a bit skeptical of you using records / history for this? I also definitely would not argue the same case for Finally or Mizu after watching all of the games from last year, they both finished right around where they should have record-wise. I'm not here to just trash anyone and everyone who plays the tier constantly and I'll vouch for a player regardless of the "group" they're in (like I said, this isn't an us-vs-them thing like you see it as), it's more that I'd be very much concerned about anyone who's good at Doubles OU and pretty much nothing else as it's a pretty comparatively weak tier competitively as a stand-alone.

That being said, the people you listed in tier 1 are probably worth a pickup but I'd have concerns about every single one of them vs stiffer competition ...if that competition actually is dedicated enough. That's a point that managers have to really gauge well if they're going to go after people outside of the regular Doubles OU players and I think will be the hardest to assess (I guess I can help with this to an extent if anyone needs it). Also a fair stereotype / knock on players coming in to play Doubles who don't have a lot of ties to Smogon. Beyond that, though, I think the potential of bringing in someone to try is worth it, and it isn't very expensive to do so if you do your homework as a manager. Not saying it's the best option for every team, I think with the general apathy problem of people who don't stay dedicated to the tier it'll be worth it to pick up some steady players, but in terms of drafting potential, good value and high potential > low ceiling + high floor with neutral value. If the managers can't find anyone dedicated enough who's good enough to threaten who you listed then I see no reason at all to not pick them up. There's a certain point where it becomes worth it.

also really sorry for shitting up the commencement thread with actual discussion

you say that the seasonals are a really shallow pond and thus useless for measuring actual player skill. i dont have many data points of vgc players entering into the seasonals to go off of but from what i do have you got 33rd in winter seasonal (losses to non-DOU mains (TewMew and Tesung)), makiri got 17th (losses to deoxys speed and Hashtag—who isn't even a top 10 DOU main, though he may have been at the time), TFC got 7th (losses to Aurious (who was using my teams) and myself), so if you're trying to claim that seasonals are useless because any VGCer could just come in and take the whole tour, so doing well in them doesn't mean shit, then i think that claim would be a whole lot more convincing with any evidence.

As to your problems with my actual list which you say in this post you disagree with, in personal conversation you specifically named Laga and KyleCole as names you didn't trust, with the rest being either "I agree with this player," "sorry don't know you," or in the case of Arcticblast, getting him confused with Audiosurfer. Honestly I didn't know where to place Laga, I only put him #1 because I figured he was the least likely to crack under pressure because of his previous SPL experience. Believe me, I know he got lucky last season, he lucked the win vs the scooters. He's still a good player though. I assume you'd recommend TFC for a purchase again and he went 2-7 so.... As for Kyle, in terms of raw play he isn't top 5, but there's a solid case for him to be the #1 teambuilder in doubles right now and he's got an extensive history of being able to effectively counterteam his opponents.

 

[WhiteQueen]

Hey Leftiez thanks for your excellent insight in what you were looking for and your thought process this mock draft. Unfortunately I believe you are slightly biased, so I will help give you a reality check with some objective analysis.


Leftiez has a decent lineup of OU players. His decent Lower tier players definitely stand a chance. After assembling a promising lineup Leftiez floundered selecting a bench mostly of OU players similar to the arousement levels of a girl before and after I showed her my erect 1 inch demolisher.

Assistant Manager: praj.pran - very cute user who should have beaten McMeghan in OST, which Whitequeen won.
Assistant Manager: Mazar - I don't want to say I have no idea who he is but there can only be one Assistant Manager. And he is praj.pran.

ORAS OU: GeeMick - excellent builder who has a mix of creativity and non bullshit gimmickry. Should be very successful based off his WCoP performance
ORAS OU: ArchPhantom - this is a decent OU player. He has some nice creative builds and should work well with GeeMick. Really capable of making predictions but it will be interesting to see how he fares vs experience players.
ORAS UU: teal6 - sorry don't know you
ORAS RU: Afro Smash - top 3 RU player, but his dedication to maining the low tier Samus in Smash may hinder his performance.
ORAS NU: Bouffalant - I don't even know if he's an NU player but he is a decent player.
ORAS LC: Yagura - great builder but I haven't seen him really show up in tours, or maybe I don't follow LC.
ORAS Doubles: Laga - apparently a lucky and good player, according to Stratos. but fuck Stratos.
BW OU: badabing - sorry don't really know you
DPP OU: Sapientia - a versatile player who will be able to help with this experience. Underrated? Not really.
ADV OU: CyberOdin - good player, if he can shake his rust off while definitely shine.
GSC OU: During Summer - a quality player who is very skilled. Will be able to help in RBY and play it.
RBY OU: Golden Gyarados - another good old gens player who can work well with During Summer.
Bench: Asuya - SPL winner last year and good BW player, should be starting there IMO.
Bench: GOD MARTH - skilled and experienced player, could definitely be starting.
Bench: Shaneghoul - sorry don't know you
Bench: Pokebasket - decent player who is versatile but hasn't particularly impressed in anything.
Bench: Disenchanted - supposed to be good since he made tour playoffs. Will be good if sogeking isn't busy ghosting papai noel
Bench: Get this Money - sorry don't know you

Mama is proud of you. Keep up the good work.

 

[apt-get]

Is this where you post logos for teams? If so I'd like to show my logo for my dream team and hopefully one day I'll make it to the squad.

 

[Tiba]

sup

 

[Triangles]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...doesnt-burn-sleep-turns.3544205/#post-6329378

Well look at the turnout this season for ADV in SPL, fuck all for players. I knew this was gonna happen, I called this shit. McM you had to go and stick the final nail in the coffin of a dying meta. I'm coming back for SPL because I don't want to see the most historically rich, beautiful and perfect meta die on me. Fuck cart mechanics man, cart mechanics doesnt have ubers and sleep clause or any of that shit, smogon already ignores a load of cart mechs in favour of competitive and fun play. If I was a conspiracy theorist I'd say that you put the changes in to make all the other top players quit so that you can get a nice SPL record and a big e-peen. But no, you're not clever enough to do that, you just didn't think ahead.

McM im out to fuckin destroy you this season.