Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics - July 2009

I'm a frequent user of P2, so I can fill in a bit about Porygon2.

Pros:
Decent Mixed Wall
Cripples: Salamance, Gyarados, Heatran, Jolteon, Vaporeon, Flygon (come in on a EQ, trace Levitate, Flygon's almost always choiced)
Can carry Thunder Wave, and has the defences to use it.
Switch-ins are met with Thunder Waves
Recover
Decent Sp.Attack
BoltBeam

Cons:
Fighting Weak, thus invites Lucario to kill/set up, and Scizor to... kill/set up, or Infernape, to kill/set up.
Little use at stopping anything except those listed above, although, not much likes a Thunder Wave to the face.
Despite decent sp.attack, lacks power.
Dislikes being poisioned and especially dislikes Toxic Spikes. (Although, bringing in on a Breloom is fun when TS is up ^_^, as you absorb the sleep, then Ice Beam it to death, and get recovery AND status immunity.)
Pros: Yup
Cons: About the fighting weak: Gyarados is a nice partner together with a rapid spinner and cleric :P that's why P2 fits in most Stall teams, and some balanced teams.
 
porygon2 can't counter mixmence until it gets a spa drop from draco meteor, and the only heatran it can really counter is scarftran.
 
I was surprised at how low suicune is (29th) and how high gengar is (10th) - dunno, I don't see gengar that often. Anyway thanks a lot doug, these stats really help with team building when your new.
Suicune on 29th? No freaking way. That monstrosity is on every team and its brother.

About Porygon2: As mentioned, Scizor, Lucario, and Tyranitar defeat it very easily, as does Gengar. It's pretty useless against stall as well, as even a Tentacruel can set up on it due to the weak attacking force.

Offensive teams prefer to use a revenge killer for Gyarados and Salamence (Jirachi, Scizor, Flygon, Starmie, Gengar, etc) while defensive teams can usually find room for a more useful wall such as RT Gyara, who can also counter most Lucario sets by phazing or Waterfalls.

To be quick: it can really help a team out by filling up a lot of specific weaknesses. But that's all it does. And it adds many new weaknesses as well.
 
P2 is an absolute monster WHEN USED CORRECTLY. I use him alongside a Zapdos and Celebi; Zapdos murders Fighters and kills/scares off Forry and Tentacruel before they set up those damned toxic spikes, and Celebi helps rid him of status. Here is a list I've compiled of the threats he can murder:

DD/CB Gyarados
DD/CB Mence
Mamo w/out Curse
ANY Heatran w/out SubToxic
All Flygon
Weavile
Metagross
PhysKingdra
SpecsJolt
Vaporeon

Also, he can get into stall wars, and eventually win, against Hippowdon, Gliscor, Starmie(w/out Hydro Pump), RoostSkarm and RestTalkZong w/out Hypnosis.

This is from my expirience, and Weavile is the one which suprised me; BB doesn't even 2KO =0
 
Here is a list I've compiled of the threats he can murder:

DD/CB Gyarados This is true, the best Gyarados counter there is
DD/CB Mence DDMence, yes he'll beat. CBMence although, 2KOs Pory with Outrage with some rocks up
Mamo w/out Curse wait, how does it beat Mamo, who has a good chance of having Superpower
ANY Heatran w/out SubToxic More only Choiced Tran, since other Tran will simply Explode (or maybe 2KO with LO Earth Power?)
All Flygon Likely, I dont think his outrage will 2KO since Mence's barely does
Weavile SD Weavile will beat you
Metagross CB 'Gross 2KOs with Meteor Mash, and most Metagross can simply Explode
PhysKingdra The only pure physical set is DDDra, who will set up on you
SpecsJoltDefinitely
VaporeonQuestionable. It depends on who has Toxic

Also, he can get into stall wars, and eventually win, against Hippowdon, Gliscor, Starmie(w/out Hydro Pump), RoostSkarm and RestTalkZong w/out Hypnosis.
Comments in Bold.
 
just an interesting fact, kingdra is placed in exactly the same position in terms of usage in both the Uber tier and the OU tier. (25th)
 
Kingdra, in my opinion, is one of the best mixed sweepers.
With rain support and maybe dragon dance on its own (or not), it's disgustingly powerful.
 
There is one thing that puzzels me infernape has seen it's usage stay at a very high level after latias introduction. But why with such a common counter has it stayed that high?
 
I can give you multiple reasons for this, the main one being: Infernape can still destroy most of the OU metagame, even with Latias near his ranking. Just because one Pokemon counters another does not mean that the one is useless. Infernape has a base 108 Speed, giving you the jump on all of those base 100s who are pretty common in OU (Salamence, Celebi, Jirachi) and Infernape can OHKO all of them. If what you said held true to every Pokemon, Scizor wouldn't be the most used Pokemon, Heatran and Gyarados are too common. But Pokemon isn't a game of direct countering.

Now, I think U-Turn/Fire Blast/Close Combat/Stone Edge or Hidden Power Ice Infernape will see a lot more usage in the future, because U-Turning right away is the safest way to play Infernape, scouting for Latias or other counters. Don't also forget that Scizor and Tyranitar, who are both just as common as Latias and Infernape, are perfect Latias killers, as they can Crunch, Pursuit, Bullet Punch, U-Turn, whatever.
 
Porygon2 IS a heatran counter that can not only switch in on choiced fire attacks, but surive an explosion (here is a calc off the top of my head, not sure if it's correct but IIRC I have experienced this in a battle once, and porygon2 DOES survive explosion: 238 Atk vs 138 Def & 374 HP (250 Base Power): 309 - 364 (82.62% - 97.33%))

Yes, lucario and infernape and even scizor are problems. That's why I have p2 with rotom-appliance (scizor) and appropriate counters against luke and infernape. Seriously 'x counters y so y is bad' is a bad argument - you need counters to x on your team anyway, and if you didn't it would mean that x were so uncommon it's hardly a problem anyway (like wormadam countering parasect or something).

P2 survives outrage salamence after one dd IIRC and ohkos with ice beam. It wins stall wars vs magnezone (which can be trapped) with recover and thunderwave, and if it doesn't, oh well. It can switch in on blissey, scout what set the monster has without taking status (trace nat. cure) or damage (recover). It can come out on top on many a stall war, provided the opponent doesn't have calm mind.

It doesn't really mind paralysis due to its slowness. If status were a problem, it learns Magic Coat (or something of the sort) which bounces status away. Sure it minds toxic, but well it's not the only pokemon at that is it.

HP Fire sounds like a very fun gimmick... but it's a bit detrimental to its main purpose (gyara and sala) but could work in the appropriate team.
 
You forgot to take the defense drop from Explosion into account, gaudetjaja. With that, Heatran's Explosion is an easy OHKO on Porygon2. And Draco Meteor + Outrage from Salamence KOs Porygon2, making it a shaky Salamence counter.
 
You forgot to take the defense drop from Explosion into account, gaudetjaja. With that, Heatran's Explosion is an easy OHKO on Porygon2. And Draco Meteor + Outrage from Salamence KOs Porygon2, making it a shaky Salamence counter.
Almost all counters to Salamence are shaky <_< since they counter moveset X whilst it's weak to movest Y o_O
Curse you Mence
 
You forgot to take the defense drop from Explosion into account, gaudetjaja. With that, Heatran's Explosion is an easy OHKO on Porygon2. And Draco Meteor + Outrage from Salamence KOs Porygon2, making it a shaky Salamence counter.
Could you perhaps show me the calc? I put in a -2 def. drop and that's what came up. I think the problem is I put in the wrong attack stat on heatran.

Note that pairing p2 with a ghost pokemon (rotom appliance for example) and predicting well could go a way to solve this problem. If not, oh well, one more threatening pokemon down.
 
Neutral 0Atk Heatran's Explosion vs 252/216 Porygon2:
216 Atk vs 297 Def & 374 HP (500 Base Power): 260 - 307 (69.52% - 82.09%)

Jesus O_o
 
Well at least it can thunderwave both if they switch in... But refer to my earlier posts, it's all about the team it's used in.
 
If you wanted to, you COULD run a set of:

Recover
HP Fire
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam

On a Porygon 2. Scout first this this P2, and see a Scizor. Then, if they send in something like... Jolteon, send in P2. Jolteon would switch out for, most likely, Scizor/Lucario, and HP Fire will OHKO Scizor, and 2HKO Lucario, which leaves Lucario at a point where it cannot sweep, due to being low on HP, and having to either switch out, or kill P2 without boosting, leaving it open to revenge kills from the likes of Infernape, Heatran, ect.

Porygon2 also has some rather good partners. It's not a 'gamebreaking' pokemon, but it can be the glue that holds a frail team together, being able to counter one of two things that give it trouble.

I forsee P2 in OU, and a few ripples with it's entry.

Scizor useage will rise... again, but stay level if people start to run HP Fire, as Toxic isn't as great in OU, due to all the steels and the fast pace.
Same goes for Lucario, but he will rise regardless of HP Fire.
Infernape may rise.
Machamp may rise, possibly with GUTS to abuse the Thunder Waves.
Breloom WILL rise, seeing as that opens up a can of Sporepunching on the victim, also known as GAME OVER. (Seriously, that thing is Uber on Support and Attack Characteristics -_-. 100% sleep if brought in on something below base 90 speed, not able to OHKO, or is paraed, and then sub, and Base 130 Attack, STAB boosed Focus Punches and Seed Bombs, almost gaurentees 1 KO, and 1 pokemon incapacitated, and probobly another injured. -_-)
Heracross might rise, but I doubt it, with better fighters out there.
Salamance, Heatran, and Gyara will all fall, due to P2 being a great counter.
Latias, Gengar, Rotom, and Metagross could rise, as they are decent counters for P2's counters.
 
Breloom WILL rise, seeing as that opens up a can of Sporepunching on the victim, also known as GAME OVER. (Seriously, that thing is Uber on Support and Attack Characteristics -_-. 100% sleep if brought in on something below base 90 speed, not able to OHKO, or is paraed, and then sub, and Base 130 Attack, STAB boosed Focus Punches and Seed Bombs, almost gaurentees 1 KO, and 1 pokemon incapacitated, and probobly another injured. -_-)
There are quite a large number of ways to take out Breloom, easily. In terms of Pokemon, Celebi walls almost all Breloom, and can stall it out of Focus Punches quite easily. If you have a designated useless Pokemon/sleep absorber, then they can take the spore. Crobat deserves a mention due to x4 resist of both Breloom's STAB moves, and can Brave Bird for a KO, or U-Turn and break the Sub, then go to someone else. The gimmick moves Skill Swap and Snatch also rape Breloom faster than you can say Breloom. Skill Swap steals Breloom's precious Poison Heal ability, and since basically every Breloom carries Toxic Orb... Snatch takes Breloom's Spore/Sub and redirects it back in his face.

In conclusion, SubBreloom is not broken enough to be Uber, despite the fact that it is a bitch
 
I don't think Porygon 2 getting a few thousand extra uses a month will have that much of an effect on OU. It's been marginally missing OU for like a year now, and this is not the first individual month where Porygon 2 has been OU. His usage seems to drop in the important months (March, June, etc.).

I'd love it for Porygon 2 to beat Porygon-Z in the statistics though. Just for the novelty. :)
 
If you wanted to, you COULD run a set of:

Recover
HP Fire
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam

On a Porygon 2. Scout first this this P2, and see a Scizor. Then, if they send in something like... Jolteon, send in P2. Jolteon would switch out for, most likely, Scizor/Lucario, and HP Fire will OHKO Scizor, and 2HKO Lucario, which leaves Lucario at a point where it cannot sweep, due to being low on HP, and having to either switch out, or kill P2 without boosting, leaving it open to revenge kills from the likes of Infernape, Heatran, ect.

Porygon2 also has some rather good partners. It's not a 'gamebreaking' pokemon, but it can be the glue that holds a frail team together, being able to counter one of two things that give it trouble.

I forsee P2 in OU, and a few ripples with it's entry.

Scizor useage will rise... again, but stay level if people start to run HP Fire, as Toxic isn't as great in OU, due to all the steels and the fast pace.
Same goes for Lucario, but he will rise regardless of HP Fire.
Infernape may rise.
Machamp may rise, possibly with GUTS to abuse the Thunder Waves.
Breloom WILL rise, seeing as that opens up a can of Sporepunching on the victim, also known as GAME OVER. (Seriously, that thing is Uber on Support and Attack Characteristics -_-. 100% sleep if brought in on something below base 90 speed, not able to OHKO, or is paraed, and then sub, and Base 130 Attack, STAB boosed Focus Punches and Seed Bombs, almost gaurentees 1 KO, and 1 pokemon incapacitated, and probobly another injured. -_-)
Heracross might rise, but I doubt it, with better fighters out there.
Salamance, Heatran, and Gyara will all fall, due to P2 being a great counter.
Latias, Gengar, Rotom, and Metagross could rise, as they are decent counters for P2's counters.

I highly much doupt a ou porygon 2 will actually do that, umbreon went ou and is not making much of an impact.
 
I feel like P2 will stay UU or go NU.
At the lowest tier it can play in, it is no where near the top. So it obviously isn't overpowered for UU, so I don't think it should warrant becoming OU. Let people use it in UU if they want, because it isn't overpowered in UU otherwise it should be up their in terms of usage in UU.
 
I feel like P2 will stay UU or go NU.
At the lowest tier it can play in, it is no where near the top. So it obviously isn't overpowered for UU, so I don't think it should warrant becoming OU. Let people use it in UU if they want, because it isn't overpowered in UU otherwise it should be up their in terms of usage in UU.
A pokemon going OU isn't because it's overpowered for UU, it's its usage in the standard play that makes it there. Just because it doesn't overpower UU doesn't mean it can't go to OU. Yes, P2 might miss the important month to be up in usage and go NU, but it's still going to get usage in OU.
 

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