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Discussion in 'Pokémetrics' started by DougJustDoug, Jul 5, 2009.
Awesome X-act ill be waiting
DDMence and Mixmence seem to be fighting over the title of best Mence set.
Thanks for the stats.
MixMence has certainly been seen more by me. What I am most surprised with is Swampert not being closer to Azelf and Metagross as far as leads usage is concerned. Even being overtaken by Jirachi, While I expect slight variation in usage every month from here it seems like the current popular leads in OU will be the leads that will stay in the metagame for a very long time. Due to the fact that they all seem to counter each other and no pokemon can counter all of them.
Though as long as people are wasting Azelf as a lead and not sweeping me I will be satisfied.
I don't know if this is addressed to me, but just wanted to clear up that I didn't say that Chomp is uber because of its usage, I'm just not surprised that it's first in usage...
and yes people: play the suspect ladder more!
Rayquaza rose in Uber. It is always going up and down between #3 and #6. Smogoneers, if we don't want Cresselia/Heracross/Dragonite/Porygon-Z/Alakazam/Rhyperior in UU, make a team with the ones you don't want in UU, do ten ladder matches every day of the month and their usage will rise. Roserade is now #1. No surprise with Shaymin being tested. Milotic didn't raise a spot. Odd, without Shaymin, Milotic has one major counter less. But Roserade still counters Milotic and is #1 now. Hitmontop rose from #7 to #3. Without worrying about Crobat resisting his STAB and Honchkrows Drill Peck, it makes sense that it went up, but this is (...) insane! Gardevoir is NU from now on. Terrible. Specs/Scarf Gardevoir sweeps NU. Regice? Focus Blast. Hypno/Grumpig? Shadow Ball. Munchlax? Focus Blast. People, please use Gardevoir in UU and Cresselia/Heracross/Dragonite/Porygon-Z/Alakazam/Rhyperior in OU.
Hmmm... so many changes.
a) Blissey again in top10. Oh well, it's not that surprising, but still the best special wall in game deserves that top10.
b) Porygon2 stays in UU. Yeah, good to see ;). UU Trick Room or Speed-Mixed team can't exist without Porygon2.
c) Giratina-O 12 place. Wow, kinda surprising, but I guess Giratina's bulk and probably the best Uber stall breaker is something, that players can't ignore anymore ;).
d) Scizor only 16th in Ubers. Surprising, I remember when it was in top10. It's really good pokemon in Ubers with great typing, good priority and enough power to be deadly even in Ubers. And thanks to Roost it can absorb those Dragon and Ice type attacks flying everywhere. It should be used more. But that's me.
e) And Garchomp out of top10 in Ubers. Not that surprising, but still Garchomp is great there not only as a revenge killer, but also it may sweep on its own. I think he'll come back to top10 in next month.
f) Donphan and Dugtrio in UU. Well, interesting ;). Stall will have hard time with CB Dugtrio. But I'm afraid it'll be banned. I just feel it.
g) Umbreon in OU. Ok, I guess I'm not the only one being surprised with this ? Especially with all those Lucarios and Scizor running rampant everywhere. I think that's even more surprising then high usage of Electivire.
Even Primeape is usefull, so it's not that surprising for me ;). But you made me curious - what set you're using for Uber Milotic ? :D
Are you serious? If those Pokemon are too powerful for UU, they would go to BL, and they would still not be in UU. So why not just play on the ladder to win, instead of to make a Pokemon miss a tier?
You pretty much got everything.
Im intrested to see what umbreon can do.
Mean look and baton pass?
Dugtrio should be uu for a few minutes.
Well... Umbreon counters Latias nicely, but Blissey, Defensive TTar and Steel types also do this nicely, so yeah, I don't get it. Mean Look + Baton pass would be effective with Umbreon being much faster.
And yeah, I forgot to mention one thing. Forretress... 9 place in Ubers lead ?! Deoxys-S Taunts it badly, Kyogre laughs on it, Dialga with fire attack also doesn't mind Forry. Darkrai just put it into sleep. Shaymin-S may flinch it with Air Slash. Only Groudon have problems and only if he lacks Fire Punch. Ok, that's something I don't get it as most leads beat it quite badly in Ubers.
suicune finally goes before e-vire
Scyther seems cemented in UU now, and Tangrowth's come up too, how nice.
Tangrowth may be useful in UU stall teams; Duggy has no business with it, though it can't switch into Dug itself, of course.
Though I'd sort of agree with you that Forry isn't really a great lead..
And lose to Payback/entry hazards Spun away.
it'll probably still pull off an entry hazard before switching away to Blissey.
Scizor needs to be used more, but i think it was the increase of stall that put it out of commission for the month
Speaking of which, when are you making that RMT?
I'm pretty curious here...
True, however it survives a hit and Taunted Forry won't do anything usefull. Ok, I may call it a draw as none of them will put entry hazards in this situation. But I still think that something Taunt-weak like Forry in fast paced metagame like Ubers on a lead is strange...
Dark Void has quite solid accuracy, so it may hit twice in a row, so Forry may put maximum one set of entry hazards. Darkrai may also run Taunt. I think it's worth a shot with Forry being one of the most used Ubers leads (strange, but oh well).
Well, it depends on hax here, but 60% chance to flinch is good enough and it's not resisted, so... Forry may be in deep trouble. However Light Screen may help here, so it's still an option for Forry.
Still CB U-Turn is as usefull as ever and may put some pressure against stall with some good switches and smart predictions. It's a good reason, but still offensive teams are really popular, so I still don't think that Scizor should be only 16th.
Yeah, and those other Latias checks/counters have either access to Stealth Rock or a lot more offensive power, supporting the team more than Umbreon could ever do. A bit confused myself here.
Maybe I'm missing something, but how does that have anything over Scarf Palkia besides Hypnosis? I guess it has 5 base more Hp and SpDef, but Palkia has 19 more speed, a huge 50 more SpAtk and double the Atk in case it runs Aqua Tail for Blissey. Add that to a stronger Dragon attack (with STAB), meaning no need to use Ice Beam and I can't see how Milotic really does anything.
Pure Water typing is good I guess and Palkia does have the Dragon typing which may run into some trouble with all the Dragon typed attacks in Ubers but the STAB on the Dragon attacks really helps. And he can outrun a +1 Rayquaza, making him an effective revenge killer.
I don't mean to be turning this into the creative movesets thread, but if there's something I'm missing on this set then please inform me.
@ Shaymin-S needs more love as a lead. STAB Seed Flare and Air Slash mean it can 2HKO most of the common leads and prevent Deoxys from setting anything up if you just get the 60% chance right once, seeing as it 2HKOs.
Honestly, I couldn't be happier with the tiering changes. Donphan is going to be awesome to play with in UU, be it a defensive Rapid Spinner or offensive Choice Bander. It's similar to Steelix, except with a lot less defense but lack of Fighting and Ground weakness. I don't see Donphan causing that much of a splash in UU, as it's not an offensive force that is unable to be stopped, nor is it a defensive force that is unable to be broken. This elephant looks like it'll blend in well with the UU environment, and once its hype of being new and fresh goes down, I can see it having a decent usage, though nothing outrageous or suspect worthy.
Dugtrio is going to be on practically every team the first few weeks after being introduced. People are going to love its ability to essentially render things like Nidoking, Blaziken, and even Roserade useless in some cases. People are going to make their team more Dugtrio-proof, with things like Levitators and even Flying-types, as well as bulky Pokemon such as Porygon2 to trap and kill it once and for it. Swellow and Yanmega will likely rise in usage, seeing as their counters can now be taken out (nearly guaranteed might I add. ILU Arena Trap). I'm unsure about Dugtrio, it sure does look fun though. Its effect on stall I have no comment on, as I don't use/face enough stall to give a valid explanation.
I'm so glad Tangrowth is UU, that oversized plant really needs more love. I find it kind of funny that both Dugtrio and Donphan are completely helpless against Tangrowth, and are both either set-up fodder for it, or just easy picking. The abundant special attackers with Ice, Fire, and Poison moves aren't kind to Tangrowth though, making things like Milotic and Slowbro not entirely safe to switch-in to, especially the former. At least we got ourselves a near-complete stop to DD Feraligatr, who can really only threaten Tangrowth with Ice Punch and Flail.
I'm not surprised that Ninetales was dropped to NU, what with Houndoom almost completely outclassing it, but Poliwrath dropping so much really surprised me. Honchkrow, Crobat, and Shaymin were all big threats to it, and it seems their banning did little to increase the tadpoles usage. Roserade seems to be the main issue for it here. If NU ever completely developes, I'm sure Poliwrath will be taken advantage of for its ability to counter Relicanth as well as sponge Rock and Water attacks. Primeape dropping was unforunate, especially since it's one of the only Fighters in the game who can utilize U-turn (which is helpful against Psychic-type switch-ins such as Mespirit and even Claydol). In NU, it'll be a terror, being rivaled really by only Hitmonchan and Medicham. Gardevoir is no surprise, offensive sets are basically slower Espeon (with Focus Blast + Thunderbolt), and defensive sets are frailer Uxie without Stealth Rock (though Wish may make it a worthwhile decision). Being slow doesn't help Gardy that much, sadly. Muk I have too little experience with to make a comment on, but I can see it being useful in NU...I guess. As for Umbreon....eh, congratulations on making OU. I doubt it'll become anywhere near standard, but you never know how the metagame will shift.
I'm a bit sad to see Heracross so low, while it is "slow" by todays standards, it's in no way outclassed by Scizor. I can't even see what would make people say that; they're two different things. Scizor is no where near as powerful as Heracross, nor does it have an attack that can match Close Combat. If you compare the two, obviously Scizor seems like a more useful Pokemon with a STAB U-turn to scout and STAB Bullet Punch to pick off foes. Still, Heracross does not fear things such as Skarmory, non-Scarf Heatran (and if Heracross runs Scarf it doesn't fear that either), Gyarados (due to Stone Edge), or even Rotom-A since Night Slash is a perfectly viable option and Heracross can outrun defensive versions. I'm not saying Heracross is better than Scizor, but comparing the two and saying "Scizor outclasses Heracross" is a bad way of looking at it. They're different Pokemon, and just because they share a Bug-typing doesn't mean they're played similarly.
Scizor is absolutely dominating the ladder currently, sporting an insane 201015 usage and being on nearly 30% of all teams. Salamence is second, but not necessarily a "close" second. Lucario usage skyrocketed, going even past Infernape and slowly creeping towards Metagross, who is still a fantastic lead. I'm sad Tyranitar is at a lowly 8th, though with Scizor and the rising Lucario usage, I can't really say I'm surprised. Gengar is back in the top 10, and people have been wising up to Scizor users and taking advantage of Substitute and HP Fire to kill it. Blissey is at 10th...wow, I never thought I'd see that whore so low =( Roserade is having a good time now that Honchkrow, Shaymin, and Crobat are banned, and Absol seems to be replacing Honchkrow on most teams, though he can never fill the Don Bird's pant. Kyogre is still reigning over Ubers, Groudon in second, blah blah blah. The day Kyogre goes second in usage will be a surprising day for us all, that's for sure.
As far as leads are concerned, I love the fact that Mamoswine is so high in usage, being 15th in OU and 2nd in Suspect. The times I used it on my Suspect team were good times indeed. Ironically, a Choice Band Swampert kind of kills all the top leads, besides probably Infernape and Jirachi with Grass Knot. Also, this kind of confused me:
I haven't seen a single Crobat lead in OU...At all.
Oh well, enough of my ranting. Off to test MixTar, who looks like a great wall breaker as well as tool against stall teams. I'm guessing Crunch / Fire Blast / Ice Beam / Superpower?
I don't play UU, but isn't it odd for the likes of cress and nite to go straight into UU just because it's not OU? Shouldn't it go to BL and have a testing period or something?
That actually seems much more reasonable so the uu ladder wont be insanely broken until we get new suspects (which took awhile).
If the administration deemed a suspect to be broken, they reserved the right to immediately pull it out, a la Deoxys-e in the Suspect Ladder. I don't see why this would be any different, if they prove as broken as the hype suggests.
The most reasonable thing to do is to plunge them straight to UU and see how they fare. If they are broken, it wouldn't take too long to realise, right?
Depends really. People seem more accepting when stuff is already labeled in a particular tier, whereas if something is in limbo I think people are more open minded in the testing process. Garchomp, deoxys etc. took long enough.
But things that have been labeled BL would go to BL, not to UU, if they get promoted to OU and then get demoted again.
Say for example Staraptor somehow becomes OU. If it goes out of OU again, it goes straight to BL, not to UU, since it was already voted BL by the UU community before.
That is highly doubful. Ever game that counts uses Sleep Clause, and Hypnosis is inferior to Darkrai's Dark Void. Also, as any Darkrai-loving Ubers player could tell you, even Dark Void's accuracy can be scary, so I would not want to bet my chances of winning on a 60% Hypnosis. Honestly, I see little reason to use Scarf Milotic instead of Scarf Kyogre.
My Opinions on the pending pokemon:
Cresselia: Never UU, Please. IMO its somewhat broken in OU. Just imagine trying to take that thing down with a UU pokemon. Especially since it has Reliable healing in UU.
Dragonite: Not UU, never. Although it is outclassed in OU it is far too good for UU
Less used rotom forms: The only reason they are not used much in OU is becuase they are outclasses by their other forms. Too good for UU
Donphan: Could be non-broken in UU but I would have to say it needs some testing
Dugtrio: UU material IMO
Rhyperior: too good for UU. Could go to BL
Umbreon: Not broken in UU, should stay in UU
Porygon2: Stays in UU, the UU metagame would be far too restricted without it