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Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics - May 2010

Discussion in 'Pokémetrics' started by DougJustDoug, Jun 6, 2010.

  1. blasphemy1

    blasphemy1

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    Only if you have Hippopotas to start the Sandstorm, and if you see its usage, you know why Cradily is so low as well. Admittedly, though, it is a pretty solid lead.
  2. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    I'm honestly wondering why Shaymin is only #81 on Standard while he's in the 20s for Suspect. I suppose the fact that the Suspect ladder has only been open for a week is a a factor, but now that Latias is gone, Shaymin should be fucking shit up in Standard.

    Honestly, I run a Seed Flare/Earth Power/HP Ice/Rest with LO and a 252/252 spread, and it murders things quite handily, including Salamence. Salamence seems to think he can come in for free against Shaymin, only to get a rude awakening (and then promptly going back to sleep, permanently).

    You might say that Scizor is so common in Standard, and the lack of HP Fire is very bad. However, Scizor has to be very careful about coming into Shaymin's Seed Flares. If it takes a Seed Flare on the switch-in, there's a 40% chance of him getting killed by Earth Power the next turn. Same thing goes for Skarmory. While this obviously doesn't have a large chance of happening, it's enough for Shaymin to kill his counters, allowing him to throw around Seed Flares for very large amounts of damage.

    However, the best thing about Shaymin is that Natural Rest. Most Life Orb sweepers don't get very many chances to come in and break things, since a lot of them don't have good recovery or are quite frail. But Shaymin can Rest up and come back in at full health and do his job all over again.

    I have a feeling that people are still trying to use Shaymin exactly like they would use Celebi, and this is probably the reason that Shaymin's so low on the Standard ladder. I'm hoping that with his extremely high usage on the Suspect ladder, people will finally stop this, and realize that he's a much more offensively based pokemon than Celebi. Also, people seem to be attributing his success on that ladder due to the removal of Salamence, when in fact, it's Latias that screwed him up.

    --

    In other news, I'm glad to see that more and more people are using OTR Bronzong. I swear, I used to be a Bronzong hater, but since I started using that set, I've seen what a monster that giant bell can really be. It's good to see other people doing the same. xD
  3. bludhoundz

    bludhoundz

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    I run the same set but with a Scarf.

    I'm not even running it on Suspect though, I'm using it on Standard.

    Shaymin is really quite underused, even with Mence running around (he isn't really even a counter).
  4. mtr

    mtr

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    @Bologo:

    Simply, the reason Shaymin is so low on the standard ladder is that people are put off by the BL label. It's really sad, because I honestly think that even though Celebi is more versatile, Shaymin is a better pick on offensive teams.

    The reason he's so high on Suspect is that losing Salamence destroyed the Dragon/Steel metagame, making OU a lot like UU, with Grass/Fire/Water cores. Shaymin works well on offensive cores.
  5. Quaily

    Quaily

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    there aren't enough suspect games to get a good read on what will be ou/uu anyway.
  6. lordkira

    lordkira

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    I agree with this
    shaymin was imo a fantastic pokemon to use even with mence around
    i was quite fond of the sweeper set though :/
  7. Aquamentus

    Aquamentus

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    I was actually thinking the same thing, and use(d) the same set in Standard back in the good old days when max speed Salamence was somewhat of a gimmick. Killing Heatran, Salamence, and sometimes Scizor with a Grass-type is hilarious, and even with 4/0 and a Life Orb it can still stick around for a little while due to its 100-across defenses and Natural Rest. Really, that set should probably replace this one, if you ask me...
  8. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    The most likely explanation would be that Shaymin occupies a space on people's teams that was previously reserved for Salamence. Any time you wanted a base 100 LO sweeper on your team, Salamence would take top priority. All Shaymin could really do in the Standard metagame was tank, and Celebi has been filling that role quite nicely for some time now.
  9. Despotar

    Despotar

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    There have been some fascinating stuff going on..
    I am loving the Suspect metagame. You see pokemon like DD Dragonite and Kindra shine where Mence was superior.
    I wouldn't have predicted Heatran's huge boost in usage!
  10. Efemera

    Efemera

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    I blame the outdated Analysis from when Umbreon was UU.

    Trap Passer:
    "This is one of Umbreon's most useful sets, and the fairly exclusive Mean Look and Baton Pass combination can be deadly when executed correctly."

    Trapping a Pokemon and leaving it helpless while you freely set up is a very appealing idea, but this is ridiculously hard to pull off in OU, as most of Umbreon's switch-ins carry U-turn or a phazing move, and even then plenty of Pokemon get two turns to attack or set up while you trap them. Curse and Cleric duties are the only really viable sets for Umbreon in OU, in my opinion. Umbreon is definitely one of the best Heal Bell/Aromatherapy users in the game.
  11. Quaily

    Quaily

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    I could have sworn the heal bell set would have been added to the analysis since there was quite a bit of talk about it in the UU forum, but I don't even see a mention of the ability on the entire page. With synchronize fantastic defenses and wish umbreon just screams 'cleric!"
  12. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    I know, right?? And then you have noobs who see "OU" next to Electivire and Ninjask and they go "Electivire is better than Shaymin". Shaymin is awesome. I actually see no difference in its effectiveness in Suspect and Standard. I've been using Shaymin for ages (Much more than I use Celebeh) and it's never disappointed me.
  13. cmurph

    cmurph

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    I started using offensive shaymin and its really been fantastic. Offensively it's much better than Celebi IMO thanks to Seed Flare. Definitely deserves to be OU
  14. nesan

    nesan

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    I don't know about the OU suggestion but it does hit hardcore! I've been using it as well. Like you said it is better then Celebi when it comes to offence. I didn't have that much luck with the sub seeder set though.
  15. lordkira

    lordkira

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    But what would happen to the status of Celebi and Shaymin when Celebi gets nasty plot?
    Wouldn't offensive celebi with NP and 3 attacks/recover be a better choice of offensive grass type than our little hedgehog buddy?
  16. nesan

    nesan

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    After Nasty Plot offensive Celebi will be popular in the Metagame! IMO it's not a great gift to Celebi but it sure makes Celebi better then Shaymin!
  17. Tortferngatr

    Tortferngatr

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    Except Shaymin isn't Tar Bait.
  18. Quaily

    Quaily

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    neither is celebi after a NP. a 4 hp tyranitar takes 128.07%-150.88% in a sandstorm from a +2 grass knot. It can only survive with a max hp/spd spread.
  19. Lucalibur

    Lucalibur

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    that is not the point, scarf t-tar outspeed and ohko with crunch.
  20. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    You're really underestimating Celebi's bulk, as ScarfTar's Crunch doesn't even OHKO Celebi without defensive EVs. If TTar comes in while I NP, Grass Knot OHKOs easily and I can Recover the damage later. Unless my opponent is a dick and has Weavile too for no good reason. :(
  21. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    I don't know if Grass Knot would be the best attack on NP Celebi anyway (Although taking out TTar is great). I was just thinking NP/Psychic/Earth Power/Recover (Or HP Fire) or something like that, since Grass Knot's coverage isn't very good (+2 Timid LO Earth Power does 82.46% - 97.66%, which has about 2/3 chance of OHKOing after SR anyway).

    However, I don't see NP really giving Celebi all THAT much advantage over Offensive Shaymin, since most Shaymins don't boost anyway, and just hits really hard without a boost. Shaymin would definitely be the Pokemon to hold Choice Specs or something like that.
  22. calze6

    calze6

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    Why has shaymin gone up in suspect? Shaymin pretty much can kill mence with HP ice. Anyway, loling at ubers stats with weedle, luvdisc, dunsparce and delibird. I see a big increase in kyogre and darkrai leads.
  23. Shizzle

    Shizzle

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    Also Shaymin has Seed Flare, I think thats more than reason enough to use him over Celebi, possibly even with NP. I mean 40% to -2SpD is a bit insane, mixed with SR (and possibly spikes!) he can work better than Celebi in terms of offense. I am not sure that there is enough time for Celebi to run both Recover and NP at the same time, so personally I still think that Shaymin is the better option.
  24. Conflict

    Conflict And who are you, the proud lord said That I must bow so low?
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    Thanks Doug!
  25. Quaily

    Quaily

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    then you are playing the game of will ttar crunch or pursuit, does it have a scarf etc. debating that is pointless and dumb. The odds are in celebi's favor that ttar is not holding a scarf, or will go for pursuit instead.

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