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Smogon Tournament Engine

Discussion in 'Site Projects' started by Shiv, Jul 2, 2009.

  1. Shiv

    Shiv mostly harmless
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    Since Bash is finally up, we're going to be working on a Tournament Engine now. This thread is basically to have feature suggestions etc from you guys so we know what we want exactly.

    We came up with a basic idea of the system, which I'll be explaining in this thread. Keep in mind that this is just the basic idea, feel free to suggest ANYTHING you would like to see.

    Just to be clear, when I refer to "directors" i mean people with the tournament director badge and when I refer to "hosts" its people who are hosting that specific tournament. Directors will have all the access a host has to every tournament.

    Creation

    A user can create a tournament application with a variety of fields. For example:

    Name
    Description
    Co-hosts (if any)
    # of Participants
    # of Subs
    Gen (RBY OU, RBY UU, etc etc)
    Type (Single-Elim, Double-Elim, Team)
    ... and so on.

    You get the picture. Now, once submitted, a director has the power to approve such tournaments or even reject them with a comment or something.

    A director would also be able to do other stuff, for example mark a tournament as "Official"/"Important"/"Tour". This would give it value over regular tournaments (you'll get what I mean later).

    Sign-ups

    Once approved, a tournament will appear on an "Open Tournaments" page. There could also be an option where the host approves it but it waits for the host to click a "Release" button before opening signups. This is of good use for tours and for when a host wants to post a thread at the same time etc.

    On the Open Tournaments page, users will be able to simply click a "Sign-Up" button which will sign them up for that particular tournament.

    During this stage, hosts will have the ability to change # of Participants and other options and can decide to "Close" the tournament whenever they wish to do so. On closing, they will be able to pick whether they wish to do a FCFS Tournament or be selective about signups. FCFS would obviously do Round 1 automatically while the other option would go about making the user select participants.

    Pairings

    Initially, we will simply have single-elim/double-elim capability but we plan to add as many variations of tournaments as you can think of as time progresses. Hosts would probably be able to choose what format a particular round (or set of rounds in case of double elim) will be played in.

    One idea we had was:

    [00:32:32] <@ryubahamut> each tourney type can be custom-designed as a class or something
    [00:32:37] <@ryubahamut> that modifies the way things appear
    [00:32:38] <@ryubahamut> and act
    [00:32:58] <@ryubahamut> so at any future date if you want to add a new tourney format, you just need to add a file
    [00:33:09] <@ryubahamut> it's quite like the way the smogon framework functions while loading all the different projects, really

    To those who understand what he was talking about, we'd like comments on this particular idea. For others, basically people can have very specific formats (like the WC does) and can create a file (which will be easy to create) and get it uploaded so they can actually specific something like that. This is for the future though.

    Reporting Battles

    Right, users would be able to see a page which lists all battles they must complete and the deadline for them too. Here they can report a win/loss and also have the option to upload a log with it.

    We came up with two ideas for the actual system though. The first was to have both opponents report the result before it shows up on site. However, since even right now, both opponents don't do that (because people hate to lose and are whiny buggers about it) we thought we should do it a bit differently.

    Basically, once one opponent reports a win/loss the other guy has the option to dispute it. Once disputed, it shows up on the hosts tournament management page and can be handled by him then.

    Hosts obviously have the power to make subs, declare winners etc etc.

    Tournament Profiles

    Here:

    [00:24:37] <@Shiv> ok shot in the dark
    [00:24:41] <@Shiv> but like
    [00:24:50] <@Shiv> smogon.com/tournaments/engine/user/456
    [00:24:58] <@Shiv> show's my tournament achievements
    [00:25:04] <@chris> of course
    [00:25:08] <@Shiv> sounds cool?
    [00:25:11] <@chris> yes.

    This page would have like a list of achievements/history as well as stats like Total Games Played, Won, Lost, ETC. Could also show number of battles that weren't completed to let hosts see what sort of a participant you would be.

    Here is where "Official"/"Important" tournaments are valued. They would show up at the top of the list or in a separate category all together, giving value to them.

    Thats about all we were able to discuss, I'm sure we're missing a lot of features that you guys would like to see, so go ahead and suggest them here!

    Do make sure that you explain them in detail and that you explain exactly what you want. For example, don't just say "have profiles", go more into details about how you would like to see profiles there.

    Also, remember that this is a huge project so don't expect this to happen in a matter of days, this will take time to complete.

    Anyway, enjoy!
  2. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    A quick button to PM the host might be nice, since there are a lot of tournaments that require you to PM the host with information, such as the Crystal Ball Cup or something like that. Anything that makes host-player communication easier would be nice. Other than that, sounds awesome.
  3. A$AP DARKY

    A$AP DARKY mfw i see alison brie
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    I look forward to it!

    suggestion: Perhaps new tournaments could automatically create a page in /news/.
  4. Shiv

    Shiv mostly harmless
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    That sounds good!

    Really? I would think that if that were happening right now /news/ would become hugely cluttered. Plus, even if we do it just for the major ones, the description of the tournament itself may not look good on its own. I would think that manually writing up a paragraph and cache'ing it shouldn't be too hard for stuff that deserves a mention.
  5. A$AP DARKY

    A$AP DARKY mfw i see alison brie
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    I suppose you're right, but the current time discrepancies between someone being able to write a news blurb and someone approving a tournament makes it unweildy. tournaments do, after all, fill up extremely quickly. I see two options:

    1. give tournament directors the ability to cache stuff
    or
    2. include the option to compose a news update immediately after a tournament is approved.
  6. Shiv

    Shiv mostly harmless
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    it would be great tournament mods and/or people involved with tournaments gave their input to this.

    thanks!
  7. Caelum

    Caelum qibz official stalker
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    This is a very cool idea, I just wanted to raise a few issues before jumping on the bandwagon.

    Firstly, I wonder how this will effect newcomers to our tournaments. I mean their might be a tab on the main page, but the current Tournaments board is so simple for new people unfamiliar with the site to see if they are interested in joining a tournament. I just wonder if this would be too complicated for newer members unfamiliar with the site.

    The community aspect seems lacking. A big part of tournament threads are predictions and comments between members usually as jests. Obviously that has nothing to do with the tournaments themselves, but it seems like a lot of our members have fun with it and I don't think we should take away something that is "fun" for our current members if we don't have too. It's not a big deal for me, but I could see some members getting upset at the lack of the community aspect. Also, what if someone has questions about the rules; they would be forced to PM when I think it would be preferable for everyone to see the question out in the open like in the forums if it's an actual issue some others didn't see.


    As a side note, I disagree with tournament announcements since I think it might push out actually important, relevant announcements due to the limited space on the front page. Maybe a tab with "tournament news" could work.

    edit in response to Jackal: I was under the assumption this would replace the tournament board since it would seem wholly redundant, but if I'm incorrect I withdraw that criticism and just argue this would be redundant.
  8. Jackal

    Jackal I'm not retarded I'm Canadian it's different
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    this looks really great, I cant really even think of anything to add.

    EDIT: would this take the place of a thread completely, I do think you still need a place for people to post as caelum said.
  9. Kevin Garrett

    Kevin Garrett is a competitor
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    From what I gather, there will still be threads for predictions, questions about the rules, and comments between members. I also like the idea of having a tournament news tab.
  10. Caelum

    Caelum qibz official stalker
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    I just assumed this system was a replacement for the current tournaments board since it accomplishes almost everything it does. It seems a bit silly to have a forum exist just for prediction threads and questions when there is a mechanism on the site that actually handles tournaments. It would be more like a "tournament commentary" forum which seems inane.

    Also, making the uploaded logs viewable might be cool if a player gives consent (and the other doesn't object) after the tournament is over. Obviously not really required, but if would be a cool feature to implement down the road.
  11. Jimbo

    Jimbo take me anywhere
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    One thing that might be cool (sorry if this was mentioned already), would be predicting on the Engine. You could do stuff like the "Like" function on Facebook (lol) or the + function on Bash. It could show stuff like "35 people predict Stellar to win" etc.

    This isn't all that important and i'm sure people like to discuss highlight matches anyway.

    This sounds cool guys, thanks!
  12. tennisace

    tennisace
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    Along those lines, maybe it could have a betting system, in which you bet points on people and win points in proportion to the odds of a person winning. The odds would be determined via a prediction system like Jimbo suggested.
  13. Articuno64

    Articuno64 1 to 63 were taken
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    These are all good suggestions, but here's what I'd really like to see it able to do:

    - creation of tournaments
    - automated signups
    - automated pairings
    - automated battle reporting

    That would be a wonderful set of features.
  14. Hipmonlee

    Hipmonlee Have a rice day
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    Also if you could keep tabs on how often people fail to complete matches.. That could be quite useful.

    Have a nice day.
  15. Earthworm

    Earthworm
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    I assume that this will automatically prevent people that aren't allowed to join tournaments from joining (if not I suggest that), that it will automatically generate random pairings, and that it will allow hosts to run tournaments where the ruleset changes each round.

    I think the Tournaments board and a thread for each tournament (rather than several) should still exist for commentary / questions / announcements that the host wants to make to all of the participants in the tournament.

    I suggest that the engine have a notification capability (for when each round starts detailing who your opponent is, possibly their contact details and maybe even their timezone [I don't know if that is possible but it would be nice]) and maybe a 'nudge' function for the host to use when a player seems to have forgotten about the tournament or isn't showing signs of activity. These would probably PM them on the forums automatically unless there is some other method of notification.

    It looks good, I will look forward to when this is functional!
  16. Shiv

    Shiv mostly harmless
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    on the subject of the forum, i'm not sure. personally, i'd just like to have each tournament post a thread for discussion about it because hell, tournaments aren't fun without SOME smacktalk atleast.

    this is a cool idea and this should definitely happen.

    i think we forgot to say this before but we planned to have a full prediction system where you can pick winners and it allots points based on correct predictions and stuff. i'm guessing each tournament could have a prediction tournament to go along with it with a simple option like: Enable Prediction Tournament? but only tournament directors would be able to enable that option.

    this sounds like fun but ill wait to hear on it from chaos lol.

    we already plan to do that, basically if you go to someone's profile, you should immediately understand a) how good they are and b) how reliable they are.

    Yes, people can be banned from joining/hosting. Yes, you should be able to change shit for every round.

    I like the notification idea, I was thinking of PM'ing them whenever they get a new battle as well as 3 days before deadline if they still haven't battled. Not sure exactly how it'll work though since I haven't worked with that before but we should figure it out :)

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