Approved by Mcmeghan ~
There has been a lot of talk about the suspect process and the issues that go with it, namely bandwagoning, lack of demonstration that voters know the meta, and lack of an accurate depiction of the meta. The problem I will be focusing on is seeing the meta accurately.
The main methods we have used so far to try to depict the meta without (or with) a certain pokemon have been suspect ladders and (recently) suspect tours. The suspect ladder is also used to determine if players are good enough or knowledgeable enough to vote (it fails there too). Both, however, don't really show how the meta would be with the change. For suspect ladders, people just use whatever team they have without the suspect, and think of it as a chore to be done quickly rather than using it to test teams in the new meta or build the best possible team. Suspect tours offer a fairly insufficient award in reqs, so while people do join them they will once again use a generic team rather than adapt to what is a new meta.
The other issue, from a council perspective, is the only method we have to question a pokemon is suspecting. This process is long, and more importantly it is final. We can't just look at how the meta would be without something, if we do then there is a good chance it will be gone. While this is the community's decision, our role as council is to do make sure the community doesn't, for lack of a better word, fuck up. And while the community is good and generally benevolent, I won't pretend like I truly trust the community given the bandwagoning and general pro-ban sentiment of many. Furthermore, the permanence and lengthiness of the current process makes it impossible to do more interesting and unusual suspects, like scald or stealth rock or fuckin twave idk.
So my proposal is that we use smogon tour weeks to suspect stuff. This could be for oras only, although if its possible and whoever is in charge/the community wanted to, it could carry over to other tiers in stours (spikes-less bw, volc-less bw, dragon dpp, sr-less dpp anyone?) I know this sounds fairly drastic and some people might reject it out of hand due to it messing with an official tournament. It would indeed change it, but that change wouldn't be for the worst. IF we choose the suspects well, it would make the meta even more balanced. It would also place an emphasis on individual teambuilding, rather than using the most successful teams all year. It would also keep the meta and the tours from gettin stale, something that tends to happen in my experience.
The benefits would also be excellent. We wouldn't have suspects entirely based in theorymonning. We could actually see how the meta changes as the best players on the site try to adapt to the new meta. We would have a way of seeing the best strategies and playstyles (the teams making deep runs in the tours). We would also have room to experiment with the tier and optimize it like we never could in the past. People always complain about the council moving too slow or w.e, and this would certainly help. You might think that it would be better to have realistic suspects in a way that wouldn't affect an official tour. However, the only way to get people to actually try their hardest to make teams and theorymon for the new meta is to relate it to an official tour.
Now just to answer some questions people had when I explained this to them. At least at first, this wouldn't replace a suspect ladder in any way, it would just be a smogon tour with a slightly altered banlist. It could be any combination of drops and bans (I will get to implementation soon), although they will always be within reason and with the intention of making the meta "better" (however u want to define it). The same suspect would be on for all 3 days of a tour week; it wouldnt switch.
The implementation is something I'm not sure about and would like community input. My original idea was that the council would just pick the suspect. I would still be open to this, but I think it probably should be in the hands of the community. My current idea is a simple vote, with eligibility based on some amount of smogon tour/tournaments in general activity. The details, such as whether the same thing could be suspected twice in a season, or whether drops would be allowed to be voted for, or whether " no change" would be an option, I am also unsure of"
Please respond with whether you think this idea is reasonable/good, what you think the method of implementation should be, the possibility of old gen changes, and your ideas about suspects in general. I saw BKC made a thread about bp in dpp that might relate to this.
One last thing, don't reject this without thinking because its different and weird. Thanks!
Edit: If it wasn't clear, this is still a TD decision, but they are interested in what the community has to say
There has been a lot of talk about the suspect process and the issues that go with it, namely bandwagoning, lack of demonstration that voters know the meta, and lack of an accurate depiction of the meta. The problem I will be focusing on is seeing the meta accurately.
The main methods we have used so far to try to depict the meta without (or with) a certain pokemon have been suspect ladders and (recently) suspect tours. The suspect ladder is also used to determine if players are good enough or knowledgeable enough to vote (it fails there too). Both, however, don't really show how the meta would be with the change. For suspect ladders, people just use whatever team they have without the suspect, and think of it as a chore to be done quickly rather than using it to test teams in the new meta or build the best possible team. Suspect tours offer a fairly insufficient award in reqs, so while people do join them they will once again use a generic team rather than adapt to what is a new meta.
The other issue, from a council perspective, is the only method we have to question a pokemon is suspecting. This process is long, and more importantly it is final. We can't just look at how the meta would be without something, if we do then there is a good chance it will be gone. While this is the community's decision, our role as council is to do make sure the community doesn't, for lack of a better word, fuck up. And while the community is good and generally benevolent, I won't pretend like I truly trust the community given the bandwagoning and general pro-ban sentiment of many. Furthermore, the permanence and lengthiness of the current process makes it impossible to do more interesting and unusual suspects, like scald or stealth rock or fuckin twave idk.
So my proposal is that we use smogon tour weeks to suspect stuff. This could be for oras only, although if its possible and whoever is in charge/the community wanted to, it could carry over to other tiers in stours (spikes-less bw, volc-less bw, dragon dpp, sr-less dpp anyone?) I know this sounds fairly drastic and some people might reject it out of hand due to it messing with an official tournament. It would indeed change it, but that change wouldn't be for the worst. IF we choose the suspects well, it would make the meta even more balanced. It would also place an emphasis on individual teambuilding, rather than using the most successful teams all year. It would also keep the meta and the tours from gettin stale, something that tends to happen in my experience.
The benefits would also be excellent. We wouldn't have suspects entirely based in theorymonning. We could actually see how the meta changes as the best players on the site try to adapt to the new meta. We would have a way of seeing the best strategies and playstyles (the teams making deep runs in the tours). We would also have room to experiment with the tier and optimize it like we never could in the past. People always complain about the council moving too slow or w.e, and this would certainly help. You might think that it would be better to have realistic suspects in a way that wouldn't affect an official tour. However, the only way to get people to actually try their hardest to make teams and theorymon for the new meta is to relate it to an official tour.
Now just to answer some questions people had when I explained this to them. At least at first, this wouldn't replace a suspect ladder in any way, it would just be a smogon tour with a slightly altered banlist. It could be any combination of drops and bans (I will get to implementation soon), although they will always be within reason and with the intention of making the meta "better" (however u want to define it). The same suspect would be on for all 3 days of a tour week; it wouldnt switch.
The implementation is something I'm not sure about and would like community input. My original idea was that the council would just pick the suspect. I would still be open to this, but I think it probably should be in the hands of the community. My current idea is a simple vote, with eligibility based on some amount of smogon tour/tournaments in general activity. The details, such as whether the same thing could be suspected twice in a season, or whether drops would be allowed to be voted for, or whether " no change" would be an option, I am also unsure of"
Please respond with whether you think this idea is reasonable/good, what you think the method of implementation should be, the possibility of old gen changes, and your ideas about suspects in general. I saw BKC made a thread about bp in dpp that might relate to this.
One last thing, don't reject this without thinking because its different and weird. Thanks!
Edit: If it wasn't clear, this is still a TD decision, but they are interested in what the community has to say
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