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Discussion in 'BW Competitive Discussion' started by Antar, Jul 1, 2012.
Probably Metagross will be the first pseudo-legendary to fall in UU...
Metagross hasn't exactly gained much new toys and largely the same - only that he has received a nerf as a result of new explosion/self-destruct mechanics.
Why everybody wants Scizor becoming Uber? This thing is not hard to destroy. It may be the most used OU pokémon, but like Tyranitar, there are many things that can destroy him. Not only Fire-type attacks, but there are many tricks that you can use to destroy Scizor.
At least I never had problems with Scizor. In fact, I never was afraid of him and I could easily destroy him every time that I faced one. And I guarantee that I never always used Fire-type and strong neutral attacks to kill Scizor.
It would be a disaster. Imagine Ferrothorn and Forretress losing half of their HP every time that they enter in battle, and most Steel-types losing 1/4 of their HP. Ice, wich already has a weakness to Stealth Rock, would have to deal with another entry hazard, becoming an even more worse defensive type than it already is. Speaking of Ice-type, Abomasnow would be even more overlooked than it already is. Not to mention the many Grass-types that would become unreliable in OU, such as Celebi, Breloom and Venusaur. Sun, wich already has to deal with Stealth Rock, would become unreliable with Stealth Fire making their Grass-type sweepers lose 1/4 of their health in a switch-in.
I don't know why you guys hate Scizor so much to the point of "imagining" another entry hazard, Stealth Fire. Scizor is not that hard to take down. Dragonite is another threat that is not hard to deal with; you just have to make sure that your counters/checks to them do not die too early.
With Fire SR you could kill him from 100% on the switch-in with Stealth Fire, Stealth Rocks, and 3 Layers of Spikes.
I would think Fire type SR would an alternative toSR, not an addition to it. Only having one floating hazard up, i think it'd be interesting to have different types than just Rocks.
Man, Metagross is really falling. Poor guy, he was always a great Pokemon...Unless he gets something new for some unexpectedly awesome reason, I think he will end up UU in the next update...
Why are people talking about him going to UU? He would simply just go into BL because he is way too over powered for UU if he does not get enough usage.
The same applies to Chansey, wich is also too overpowered for UU with those Eviotile boosted defenses, but people are talking about her falling to UU.
Chansey was available in UU for months before it rose to OU. It was nominated for suspect tests and never received even a simple majority. I don't think it would be banned if it fell back to UU.
I can't access po.smogon.com. Is this temporary, or does it have something to do with the move from PO, or what? I want to see June's moveset stats.
The server hosting Pokemon Online (and Pokemon Showdown) was DDoS'd yesterday, and the issue is still being resolved.
For anyone concerned, no matter how long it takes to get our simulators back online and stable, I will still be posting usage stats for the month, and we have every reason to believe that we'll be able to keep on-schedule for an October 1 tier update. We're lucky that July's stats have such little effect on the tiers (1 part in 24).
For those of you who are missing having the detailed stats that I have posted on sim.smogon.com/Stats, I've made available this zip file available. Use it in good health.
also anyone saying metagross would be the first PL to ever fall into UU is clearly forgetting about this guy
not just once, either, but twice
He wasn't able to be used in UU, but was not simply used enough to be known as OU. I remember looking at that a while ago since i remembered he was not always OU.
No, BL was a legit tier in gens II and III. It was basically UU, and UU was below that. That's why there are 46 mons in BL in the RSE meta. UU did /not/ ban 46 mons.
side note: even if they had, it would have meant that Dragonite was UU at some point!
Will you have usage stats from both PS and PO?
Now if BL being a legit tier back then was true, there would be movesets for the pokemon in that tier. However, that is not the case. These pokemon in BL only have sets for OU. I stand my ground saying that there has never been a pseudo-legendary pokemon placed in UU.
BL lists used to be based mostly on theorymon. Until about halfway through fourth gen, the BL list for that generation was similarly long but it was decided to unban them all and ban the ones that actually caused problems.
By current policy if Metagross falls out of OU, it will go to UU, and it will be banned if it causes problems.
Metagross may become the first pseudo-legendary to fall to UU, but that's pretty meaningless...there are plenty of actual legendaries in UU, including some with 600 BST (Shaymin, Victini, formerly Mew).
Yeah tiers were different before Smogon started using/had access to computer generated usage stats and had to base tiering on guesstimation. I believe the OP of this thread does a good job explaining how tiering worked back then http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11508
Don't forget about Regigigas in NU!
Regigigas is a special case due to Slow Start halving its Attack and Speed. Its effective BST is ~500 with no EV investment.
Actually there are a lot of Legendaries in the lower tiers, for example all the Regis are in NU except Registeel, who is UU. Moltres and Entei have both been RU staples for some time, I think.
The reason why I mentioned Regigigas is because his BST is 670 instead of the typical legendary pokemons' 580 or 600.
This is just depressing. Metagross is an awesome pokemon, and it is really sad that its usage is so low.
Honestly having used Metagross myself just before the BW2 update, I have to say I was massively disappointed.
The biggest issue I found with it wasn't its speed so much as it was the fact that it's STAB is steel type, which is quite frankly just plain awful. Way too many Pokemon could switch in with impunity on him and threaten back (due to Metagrosses Fire and Ground Weaknesses). Metagross' coverage options aren't good enough to deal with enough of his switch ins to make him useful, and he always ends up with serious 4MSS. He never got Stealth Rock up reliably for me either because of the aforementioned weaknesses, which made staying in with him without attacking for a turn a bit of a stupid move. Maybe a CB set would work better with some more power, but CB and specs sets aren't exactly common these days unless the user is so powerful with it that they can plow through resists (like Tornadus, Terrakion, Dragonite, etc... Scizor is a unique exception obviously), and Metagross falls just short of that.
So yeah, I can see why he gets so low usage in OU; his offensive typing really bites him in the ass and his defensive capabilities aren't enough to make up for it. Shame really, I always liked Metagross.