Smogon Usage-Based Tier Update: August 2016

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Natan

...
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Rip RU Regen Cores.
Shaymin and Slurpuff are too powerful
After a Belly Drum, nothing can avoid a 2HKO from Slurpuff. Registeel, Uxie, Escavalier, Qwilfish, Granbull can at least avoid an OHKO and Cripple (or OHKO in Escavalier's case) it with Thunder Wave, but they don't have recovery and will need to avoid any damage to take a hit (except for Escavalier) Golbat can take a Return +6 but can only Toxic in return, Brave Bird can only 2HKO after Belly Drum and Sitrus Berry.
Shaymin...I can say only one thing
I don't see this without a quick ban.
The only thing that avoid a 2HKO (I think) are Registeel and Bronzong, and it can't do much in return, thanks to Reliable Recovery and Natural Cure. (Oh, Braviary Subs BU can switch taking less than 30% to any move unless it runs HP Rock / Ice, and this seems really pointless, lol)
If it runs HP Fire to hit Escavalier and Registeel, Synthesis for HP and Earth Power to Registeel, Virizion can at least take the HP Fire two times and use Calm Mind or Swords Dance to defeat it, but isn't a real check.
Btw, new PU mons, Smeargle, Muk, Rotom-Fan, Pelipper (it is back) and Cacturne sounds pretty good, and finally Trevenant is NU. And both Tornadus and Heracross Mega are in the tier they deserves, (not in the BL).
 
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Cacturne would be a beast in PU

Cacturne @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash/Mild Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Sucker Punch
- Giga Drain
- Superpower

Cacturne is also a decent check to one of PU's biggest threats
(252+ Atk Life Orb Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 277-328 (89 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Another idea for a decent set is

Cacturne @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb
- Sucker Punch
- Drain Punch

With an ev spread of choice
 
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i really dont understand why ou ladder loves zapdos so much, it aint even that good :/

Really excited to see how shaymin and Slurpuff do in RU meta. Without doublade around this time, slurpuff may be far too hard to handle, and shaymin has really spammable powerful STAB that not many thing enjoy switching in on. Registeel can somewhat counter the two i suppose, but it doesnt have reliable recovery so it has to stay healthy forever. We shall see how they do =)
Zapdos's niche in OU if I'm not mistaken is on certain Stall builds acting as a reliable defogger as well as a check to Scizor and to a lesser extent Bisharp. Not really well versed in stall at all so take my word with a grain of salt I guess but I know it rose to OU cuz Stall
 
This might just be me but I think that there might be a rise in something like this in PU to deal with cacturne
Monferno @ Eviolite
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 48 Spe (enough speed for max speed cact if its not speed boosting nature)
Impish Nature
- Fire Punch
- Low Kick
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off

because its like one of the only counter if could find to something like this (there are other mon the can check/switch in but this is the monferno set is the hardest counter i could find as most may get run over by SD)
Cacturne @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe /4 Spa
Naughty/Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Dark Pulse/Substitute
- Swords Dance

Although I don't know the tier well enough to say xD
 

MegaStarUniverse

Banned deucer.
for you guys not understanding why Tangrowth is OU let me tell you why. its a very good physical wall that can handle M-Metagross , M-lopunny, Landorus-T, Terrakion , Tyranitar and a lot of physical attackers in OU. it has offensive pressure unlike Amoonguss. Tangrowth has options available to Sleep powder , earthquake , Knock off , Sludge Bomb , hidden powers etc and also has a nice ground Resist which Amoonguss does not have being able to counter Landorus-T and excadrill pretty nicely.

Here are some replays to show you what Tangrowth can do in OU

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-410865536 - [Turns 24 - 29]. Tangrowth puts Latios to sleep , Leech seeds M-Scizor and knocks off Latios down to 2% leaving it to die to rocks when it comes back in. and winning me the game.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-180174 - [turn 9] Tangrowth knocks off Heatrans leftovers THEN [turns 25 - 38] Tangrowth goes crazy by getting rocky helmet damage on landorus-t , Killing Terrakion, lives pursuit and gives M-Scizor rock helmet damage, tanks Landorus-t's Earthquakes then Kills it also.

and this is just the physical defensive set. There is also the AV set lol. My point is Tangrowth is seeing high level tour play in WCOP and getting wins and its been putting in work this meta. TANGROWTH IS OU

 
Overall good changes for all the formats, can't wait to see how they shake things up - surprised at the usage rates for both X and Y Charizards and Zapdos. Might bring Zapdos back down to UU.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
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On a side note... why did Tangrowth suddenly get such a massive boost in usage?
Because people have realised that it's really good in OU. It's one of--if not the--most physically bulky things in the tier (252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 216+ Def Tangrowth: 320-380 (79.6 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <-- this is fucking disgusting) and it benefits from a lot of the current metagame trends (an influx in Ground-types, sand being fucking everywhere, the meta being generally v. phyically-oriented etc.) without being easily overwhelmed courtesy of Regen+it's good synergy with other Regen users like Slowking. There are other things too, but tl;dr Tangrowth is stupidly good atm
 
why are all u ppl talking about sd cact when the best set is AoA? Focus Blast, Giga Drain, Dark Pulse and Sucker Punch with a Hasty nature and max spe/max spa is probably gonna be the best set, breaking whole teams down.

shaymin is cool, I don't think it'll be broken bc of regi, zong, etc, but we'll see.

slurpuff is broken plz ban oml

rotom-fan seems cool, special flying-type coverage seems to be really cool now but we'll see, again. Having a nice check to ferno is cool too.

fuck ou give back tang

I don't honestly know what to make of trev, it's kinda a mixed bag, it also faces competition from big pumpkin.

muk is weird, but everyone and their mom has a fetich for it so idk

PU is gonna be fun tho
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
If I'm looking forward to anything with Cac it is using it as a spiker tbh. Nice 'mon in general for it's ability to outpace and OHKO lead Golem through Sturdy with Bullet Seed (252 Atk Life Orb Cacturne Bullet Seed (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Golem: 322-384 (106.9 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO) while not being complete dead weight beyond the lead position due to the small amount of defensive utility it brings to the table between Water Absorb.
 
Who implements the tier changes? I just hope these get implemented soon.

So this isn't a one-liner, I like these tier shifts. Shaymin and Slurpuff will 2HKO everything in RU, Gurdurr finally is NU, let's see how it fares in a changed NU with no Sawk or Sceptile. Trevenant might be somewhat better in NU, not sure yet. Pelipper returns to PU, along with new drops on Rotom-F, Cacturne, Smeargle, and Muk. Quagsire is OU, might be NU in the coming months. OU is fat and it needs a treadmill. Give back Tangrowth, Quagsire, and Amoonguss to their respective tiers.
 

Acast

Ghost of a Forum Mod & PS Room Owner
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Who implements the tier changes? I just hope these get implemented soon.

So this isn't a one-liner, I like these tier shifts. Shaymin and Slurpuff will 2HKO everything in RU, Gurdurr finally is NU, let's see how it fares in a changed NU with no Sawk or Sceptile. Trevenant might be somewhat better in NU, not sure yet. Pelipper returns to PU, along with new drops on Rotom-F, Cacturne, Smeargle, and Muk. Quagsire is OU, might be NU in the coming months. OU is fat and it needs a treadmill. Give back Tangrowth, Quagsire, and Amoonguss to their respective tiers.
I'm pretty sure they've already been implemented. I've been using Muk and Pelipper in PU, and I've seen Cacturne on the ladder.

Just a quick comment, I was really excited for Pelipper but I've been using it to test on the ladder and I'm a little disappointed. Its bulk is great, but I kind of miss the speed and offensive presence that Swanna had, even if it isn't nearly as bulky as Pelipper. Of course the pelican will probably be the preferred water/flying type, but I'm starting to think it won't outclass Swanna as much as people are saying.

Maybe I'm just not using it right. Idk
 
I expected Tangrowth, no doubt there. I'm not shocked at the other tier changes too, except for one thing, the fact that why won't Ambipom drop already. Please people it's not that good anymore.
 
A lot of people are saying Ambipom and Cinccino should drop, and I agree with that. But would they be any good in NU?

Well they both outrun Tauros, the premier Normal type in NU - they have 115 Speed compared to Tauros's 110. In terms of power, Ambipom matches Tauros's base 100 Attack while Cinccino comes out slightly lower at 95. Cinccino's Tail Slap does outdamage Tauros's Rock Climb. In terms of damage, Ambipom comes up the shortest - while its base Attack is the same as Tauros, the bull has Sheer Force.

252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Mega Audino: 145-175 (35.3 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Mega Audino: 133-156 (32.4 - 38%) -- 94.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Ambipom Return vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Mega Audino: 114-136 (27.8 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

In terms of bulk, Tauros easily outshines them. They all share the same base 75 HP, but Tauros has 95/70 defences; Ambipom only has 66/66, while Cinccino only has 60/60. Tauros wins out in terms of movepool - it has Earthquake, Fire Blast, Zen Headbutt, Rock Slide and Iron Tail, the latter 4 all getting a Sheer Force boost. Cinccino does have a niche in Skill Link Bullet Seed though, which lets it smash through Gastrodon and defensive Carracosta.

To summarise, while Cinccino may have a niche Tauros would usually be better. And Ambipom would still be outclassed.
 
A lot of people are saying Ambipom and Cinccino should drop, and I agree with that. But would they be any good in NU?

Well they both outrun Tauros, the premier Normal type in NU - they have 115 Speed compared to Tauros's 110. In terms of power, Ambipom matches Tauros's base 100 Attack while Cinccino comes out slightly lower at 95. Cinccino's Tail Slap does outdamage Tauros's Rock Climb. In terms of damage, Ambipom comes up the shortest - while its base Attack is the same as Tauros, the bull has Sheer Force.

252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Mega Audino: 145-175 (35.3 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Mega Audino: 133-156 (32.4 - 38%) -- 94.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Ambipom Return vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Mega Audino: 114-136 (27.8 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

In terms of bulk, Tauros easily outshines them. They all share the same base 75 HP, but Tauros has 95/70 defences; Ambipom only has 66/66, while Cinccino only has 60/60. Tauros wins out in terms of movepool - it has Earthquake, Fire Blast, Zen Headbutt, Rock Slide and Iron Tail, the latter 4 all getting a Sheer Force boost. Cinccino does have a niche in Skill Link Bullet Seed though, which lets it smash through Gastrodon and defensive Carracosta.

To summarise, while Cinccino may have a niche Tauros would usually be better. And Ambipom would still be outclassed.
Ambipom still has a niche in a Technician STAB Fake Out, but yeah, it would still mostly outclassed. Although if you're implying that it should be PU then hell fucking no, speed, power and coverage is definitely too much for it to handle.



And really, NU very badly needs Aromatisse. The only Fairy type NU has right now is Mega Audino, which doesn't resist Fighting like Fairy types are supposed to. NU also has a big shortage of clerics, with Miltank and Vileplume the only good ones, I've tried cleric Mega Audino but I really hate the lack of Leftovers. And also rn Mega Audino is the ONLY viable Wish passer in the tier. Forget Ambipom/Cinccino/Typhlosion, stop being selfish RU and give NU the final puzzle piece.
 

dingbat

snek
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnus
hi

what most of us here really need to acknowledge first and foremost is that most of the ppl w/1695+ glicko who use ambipom in ru don't even have smogon accounts and don't realize that ambipom sucks major horse dong.

that's why it has such retarded usage right now
 
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