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Smogon Usage-Based Tier Update: December 2015 (Read the OP)

Discussion in 'Smogon Metagames' started by Antar, Dec 4, 2015.

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  1. Braviarca

    Braviarca

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    Gyarados in UU. Prepare to be blown out of the UU usage ballpark by this thing's sheer awesomeness and POWAH, Feraligatr.

    My thoughts? Well, on the current OU viability rankings, Gyarados is A- rank. It's also the 59th most used Pokemon in OU, and while it's not spectacular, it's still really good. Also it can use Moxie EXTREMELY well to be able to become progressively all that more terrifyingly powerful as it defeats each Pokemon on the enemy team, or Intimidate to seriously weaken physical attackers. It also gets ridiculously powerful moves and amazing setup options, like Aqua Tail, Bounce, Waterfall, Crunch, Dragon Dance(in case if you want it to be UNSTOPPABLE), Earthquake, Outrage, Iron Head, Stone Edge, Taunt, and T-Wave. It can run almost any set it wants preferrably using those moves (and maybe more, like Dragon Tail, Facade, and Body Slam), but it always has to watch out for burns. That can be its downfall, along with Zapdos and Aerodactyl-Mega, both of which are immune to EQ, but Zapdos is weak to Ice Fang and Stone Edge, and Aerodactyl-Mega is weak to Water moves it may carry, Iron Head, and to Stone Edge as well. And it's also sitting on an average speed, sitting at base 81 speed.

    Long story short: This thing, from what I can tell, will be more than the new Feraligatr, it will be one of the kings of UU AND outclass Feraligatr and MAYBE even Mega Swampert in a few aspects, aside Aerodactyl-Mega, Mence, Hydreigon, and Suicune as S-Rank. Perhaps it might be A+, though, but it will still be a phenomenal Pokemon. (Maybe it'll be too good and be booted into BL or even back into OU! Time will tell for sure, however.)

    Also, sorry if this drove the current topic of RU mons off the road for now, but I saw Gyarados in UU and really wanted to post my thoughts.
  2. Melons-N-Soda

    Melons-N-Soda

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    Feraligatr still has a niche over Gyara (at least in terms of Dragon Dancers cause really that's the only role they share) in that it has Sheer Force thus an easier chance against Dragons and Grass-types because of Ice Punch. This also gives it more power to boot. Not saying that Gatr is better than Gyarados but both of them have their uses and as such one doesn't really outclass the other.

    I don't think Gyara is broken either. If your UU team is prepared for Feraligatr its also likely prepared for Gyarados as well. It can have Bounce and Earthquake messing with Fighting-types and Electric-types a bit, but other than that, not really broken per say. You know when everything was crying over Mamoswine being broken when it dropped to UU along with Mandibuzz? I think Gyara will be the same deal.
  3. Braviarca

    Braviarca

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    Ah, completely forgot about Sheer Force when making my post. My mind: TORRENT Feraligatr. XD
  4. tjdaas

    tjdaas

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    But RU is a entirely different metagame than OU, you can't say it is ok in OU so it must be okay in RU. The big difference is that stall is an usable playstyle in OU, but stall is non-existed in the offensive orientated RU. Also dark spam is popular, maybe less with the Diancie drop, in RU with great dark types such as Sharpedo, Absol and Drapion. It is ranked C- for a reason and that is being actually very niche and only usable on trick room teams as TR setter and NP user.

    But I hope that all RU pokes that are ranked C+ or lower will drop to NU one day!
  5. r3df0x123

    r3df0x123

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    So I guess Confag is similar to Politoed, Ninetales, Gothitelle, Wobbuffet, and Ditto(?).
    They all have niches in a higher tier, like OU or Ubers, but because their niche is banned in lower tiers (i.e. STag is Drought/Drizzle ban) they just keep dropping since no one wants to use them in the lower tiers. That's why the aforementioned are PU, they are only good in a high tier, but since they're useless in UU and under, they just fall to the trenches of PU.
    Similarly, Confag is only viable in OU, so it will probably drop to NU pretty soon.
  6. tjdaas

    tjdaas

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    It is more like Gurdurr, being ranked B in NU and ranked A- in RU. This is only due to the difference between the two metagames. RU has dark spam and fighting types are a great answer to that and most of the dark types are physical and Gurdurr can set up on them. In NU dark resist are not needed that much and Gurdurr is also ranked lower. This is the same for Granbull. It was not that great in NU, but in RU it was needed as a physical wall for Tyrantrum and such and is now RU. Cofag his niche is not gone in RU, but he cannot have the same role it has in OU. This is because all the metagames are different. In RU walls are needed but Cofag doesn't is the right answer for it. And it will probably not drop to NU anytime soon, because worser pokes like ampi, cinno and Ty are also still RU.
  7. dysbber162

    dysbber162

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    That's what i said....
  8. Toljik

    Toljik

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    People are forgetting one thing about Cofagrigus in NU. This:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    will be on every low ladder team.

    vv Teams that run this "core" give Cofagrigus Eject Button to give a free switch to Slaking.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
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  9. r3df0x123

    r3df0x123

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    I can sort of see this working. Confag gives an opponent Mummy, Slaking comes in and hits the opponent to remove Truant and receive Mummy. But that is way too gimmicky to actually work, like Skill Swap Contrary in Doubles.

    EDIT: Toljik was joking right?
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
  10. canasian

    canasian

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    Well you click Pursuit with Slaking so you're guaranteed to receive Mummy by sacking Cofag to a physical attacker.
    Honestly I think Yamask works better with the gimmick since Cofagrigus is actually reasonably tough to kill so sacking it is harder

    As a team archetype, yes it's a joke, but that doesn't mean that low ladder players wouldn't try to abuse it
    MegaFlareon and Melons-N-Soda like this.
  11. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Ultra Ball off of Abyssal Hand for Lele for Guzma for game
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

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    iirc Mummy only procs on contact moves whereas Eject Button will switch you out when hit by any move, so considering most contact moves are still Normal, Fighting, or U-turn: good luck
    Melons-N-Soda likes this.
  12. r3df0x123

    r3df0x123

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    Well, the Eject Button failing is the least of the this strategy's troubles.
    SketchUp and Da Pizza Man like this.
  13. LorisMasta17

    LorisMasta17

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    Because it's bad.
  14. r3df0x123

    r3df0x123

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    The same applies to Cincinno, albeit to a lesser extent.
    RU seems to be a very odd tier, since it's choked with bad mons that still see usage there.
    Can someone explain why?
  15. Kurona

    Kurona

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    Arguably has one of the smallest communities, especially compared to the likes of OU and UU which don't get nearly the same problem, so ladder players leak into significant usage percentages much more easily.
    Best I can come up with anyway
  16. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Breaking hearts since '09
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    Here are my predictions for drops next shifts:

    OU to UU:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG] Alakazam
    upload_2016-1-29_16-26-24.png
    Will be an awesome revenge killer in the UU meta like it used to. Can easily net some KO's with Life Orb, or be a perfect mon against offense with Focus Sash and Magic Guard. Gonna be a huge threat.
    upload_2016-1-29_16-27-29.png
    Oh boy....

    [​IMG] Mew
    upload_2016-1-29_15-41-51.png
    upload_2016-1-29_16-28-7.png
    Something that I want to see happen for such a long time. Mew is the jack of all trade pokemon in the UU meta like it used to be. A bulky SR setter, a sweeper, a stat passer and even a stallbreaker. I really feel it would be a great addition to the UU tier, due to the fact that stall is pretty much everywhere (although decreased when Crawdaunt and Gyarados arrived). Really hope this drop actually comes to happen.

    [​IMG] Mega Gyarados
    upload_2016-1-29_16-25-46.png
    This things is gonna be scary in UU. Already regular Gyara is a pain to deal with, but with the added bulk and the mind games it can play when it changes typing, I feel it might be a bit too good for the tier. Although this is all theorymon, I don't expect it to stay long in the tier imo.


    UU to RU:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG] Honchkrow
    upload_2016-1-29_16-30-8.png
    I am really scared if this thing drops to RU. 125 Atk backed up by powerful STAB moves in Brave Bird and Sucker Punch. Although it's speed could be a bit better, Choice Band with Moxie would tear stuff up. Thank God it doesn't get Knock Off....

    [​IMG] Cloyster
    66 | Cloyster | 3.354%
    Cloyster would be a pretty threatening mon in RU, Shell Smash and Skill Link would be cool with Icicle Spear and Rock Blast and Hydro Pump. Would be cool new threat to break some defensive cores in RU.

    Nothing else that I could see


    RU to NU:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]Trevenant
    upload_2016-1-29_16-35-25.png
    Finally this is happening. Trevenant is such a niche pokemon in RU and I believe it would actually be quite viable in NU. It has a quite good 110 Atk stat coupled with nice 85/76/82 bulk. Grass/Ghost is also quiet good offensively, and could be nice with Harvest berry shenanigans, although Sceptile would still outclass it pretty much.

    [​IMG] Smeargle
    upload_2016-1-29_16-36-38.png
    I feel Smeargle would be an interesting pokemon in NU. It would probably be an amazing hazard setter with Dark Void, Stealth Rock, and Spikes and maybe even Sticky Webs. It has low speed, so it may not be that amazing, but it would be a nice hazard lead for HO teams.


    NU to PU:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]Prinplup
    upload_2016-1-29_16-40-50.png
    OMG pleasssse drop your so close. PU is seriously in need of hazard removal after Pelipper left the tier. Prinplup would be a great addition, as it can serve as another Floatzel check and all around bulky water with an Eviolite. I really want this to come to PU again.

    [​IMG] Pinsir
    upload_2016-1-29_16-43-34.png
    Pinsir would be cool in PU with it's high 125 Atk. An SD set may be cool with Mold Breaker or a Choice Scarf set with Moxie also. It may be too god, but 85 Spd isn't the best with sole Bug typing. I guess we have to see.

    [​IMG] Cryogonal
    upload_2016-1-29_16-46-39.png
    Another hazard remover?? PU would seriously be lucky if Cryogonal would drop along side Prinplup. It may be weak to SR, but 135 Sp.Def would be nice with 105 Spd is also pretty cool. 30 Def is pretty abysmal though.

    [​IMG] Crustle
    upload_2016-1-29_16-53-13.png
    Crustle would be cool in PU, being a cool hazrad lead, and nice Shell Smash sweeper. 45 Spd is pretty slow though. I believe it would still be quite good.


    Overall pretty cool drops and I believe will shake up the tiers a lot.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
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  17. Da Pizza Man

    Da Pizza Man

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    You forgot about Charizard to NU and Ampharos to PU
  18. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Breaking hearts since '09
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    Ya forgot about those two. Finally Charizard will finally reign NU like it did the past two gens
  19. r3df0x123

    r3df0x123

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    So I guess the tier shifts will resemble the previous gen 5 tiers, like Charizard in NU and Mew in UU.
    Wasn't Alakazam UU for a while and its Mega BL?
  20. Cheryl.

    Cheryl. Celesteela is Life

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    Yes, but then it and his Mega rose to OU because of their increasing usage there.
  21. Swede

    Swede

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    I'm pretty certain MegaZam would remain banned from UU even with a drop.
  22. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Breaking hearts since '09
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    I know it was BL at one point, but didn't it eventually got retested and was unbanned?
  23. Swede

    Swede

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    Nope, at least not at its recent movement to OU. It will remain BL if it falls.
  24. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Breaking hearts since '09
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    Shoot just checked, it was voted with a near 6 votes to BL, it was so close that I think it should be retested, especially that the meta changes so much since it was last UU...
  25. Froggyboy

    Froggyboy

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    I'm more of an RU guy, so I'll list my thoughts for the mons set to drop there.

    [​IMG]
    When looking at Honchkrow, the obvious comparison is made with Absol, as their stats are near alike and are both dark types, though I believe Honchkrow is better for a few reasons. Honchkrow firstly has the Flying type, which allows it to fuck over revenge killers like Hitmonlee, Gurdurr, and Vaccum Wave Poliwrath, as it is neutral to their priority moves, plus it has STAB Brave Bird which fucks over the common Fighting types that are used to take on Absol. Secondly, with 105 SpA, it can go mixed much easier with access to moves like Heat Wave and Dark Pulse allowing it to fuck up MegaLix and other psychical walls. Thirdly, its abilities aren't near useless as Moxie in combination with Sucker Punch is a great combo, and while pretty niche, Insomnia allows you to switch in on Amoonguss and Sleep Powder Venu easier. Yeah, Absol doesn't have a rocks weakness and has Knock Off, but overall I feel Honchkrow is better in the role of a dark attacker, and I actually expect it to not last too long as Absol is already on the ropes between broken and not, and Honchkrow is better than it in a lot of roles, so yeah.

    [​IMG]
    It is hard to tell the future of Cloyster if it does fall to RU. For one, its Shell Smash set would be very deadly, with Icicle Spear, Rock Blast, and Hydro Pump possessing great coverage, and with good enough speed to outrun scarf Houndoom with +Atk nature and Scarf Durant with +Spe nature. And a suicide lead set doesn't sound that awful, being a nice lead with Explosion, Spikes and Rapid Spin. However its typing is pretty meh defensively, being weak to all forms of hazards and common types like Fighting, Grass, and Electric, and while its Defense is huge, its HP and SpD doesn't do it any favors, being KO'd by any strong special attack, and at least 2HKO'd by a special attack coming from anything with a respectable SpA stat. (252 SpA Medicham Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 169-199 (70.1 - 82.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock <- No one runs that but still.). So overall, while it is very potent when set-up, it would find it difficult to set up, so I think it could stay, but being banned isn't exactly off the table either.

    Though they aren't guaranteed to drop, discussing their potential never hurts, plus I can just copy and paste this to the NP thread so I can feel like I contributed if they do drop xp.
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