AD impish john
Consumed by Darkness...
Dear OU, STOP using Zapdos, we want it back
~ Sincerely, UU
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Smogon Usage-Based Tier Update: May 2016
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Dear OU, STOP using Zapdos, we want it back
~ Sincerely, UU
252+ Atk Sandslash Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Crustle on a critical hit: 48-57 (19.2 - 22.8%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Sandslash Slash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Golem on a critical hit: 42-50 (11.5 - 13.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
He means Sandslash, not just the move slash.
When he said "slash" he was abbreviating sandslash, not saying the move slash would threaten golem and crustle
Dear OU, STOP using Zapdos, we want it back
~ Sincerely, UU
That's what happens when stall is the entire ladder.
Honestly Sand Rush Stoutland isn't very good in PU. Choice Band Scrappy is a much better set IMO - it requires less support. Sand Rush Sandslash would be solid as that gets Swords Dance and EdgeQuake coverage - it would be a poor man's Excadrill.
Isn't very good? You're right about CB Scrappy being the better set but Sand rush isn't just something to be pushed off as not very good. Stoutland still hits really hard and the only thing CB Scrappy has over it is the ability to use Facade. Stoutland will still be able to break most Pokemon whilst running Sand Rush. (Adamant LO)
Sand Rush Stoutland is good in PU flooring most offensive based teams and remains as a reliable revenge killer and part wallbreaker to an extent (not as good as CB with the loss of power but retains qualities with Life Orb)
Stoutland still uses Facade with Sand Rush
Edit - #FREEMUK
It's a decent late game cleaner, but honestly I prefer Quick Feet Ursaring and DD Fraxure - they're not as fast, but they have superior movepools and ways to boost their Attack.
RU - stop using Gurdurr. UU - stop using Milotic. OU - stop using Zapdos and Mew.
RU - stop using Gurdurr. UU - stop using Milotic. OU - stop using Zapdos and Mew.
Honestly I don't think Sandslash and Stoutland are that comparable beyond having access to Sand Rush. What I mean is that Stoutland is much better as an immediate wallbreaker with disgustingly powerful Returns and the ability to nail Ghost-types like Misdreavus hard with Crunch, whereas Sandslash's much higher physical bulk, different offensive/defensive utility but noticably lower immediate power and speed (base 100 atk is a v. significant drop from base 125, and base 60 speed misses out on a bunch of scarfers which base 80 doesn't) means that it'll most likely be relegated to a late-game cleaner role or a supportive role against teams it can't set up on. I think that, in the case of sandstorm squads, you wouldn't run one without the other. The reason I say this is because they are generally pretty good at weakening each-other's checks (they don't particularly share checks, Stoutland puts the hurt onto Grass-types for Sandslash and in return Sandslash puts the hurt onto Rock- and Steel-types for Stoutland, with Superpower Stoutland and SD Stoutland making for a v. potent offensive core capable of v. quickly overwhelming teams.
This is the kind of setup I was thinking:
edit: also apparently Milotic's good in UU now for some reason so I won't moan about it for now.
This is the kind of setup I was thinking:
Stoutland @ Choice Band / Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
(IVs: 29 HP (Life Orb only))
- Return
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Wild Charge
Sandslash @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
idk if Stout really needs Wild Charge in a meta w/o Pelliper, but its nice to 2HKO Prinplup before/after rocks (depending on choice of item) so I might as well include it. You could run Jolly on Sandslash to outpace some scarfers, but I think it's immediate power is too low for this to be worth the trade-off considering that it outpaces the entire unboosted, un-scarfed meta with adamant anyway.
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
(IVs: 29 HP (Life Orb only))
- Return
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Wild Charge
Sandslash @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
idk if Stout really needs Wild Charge in a meta w/o Pelliper, but its nice to 2HKO Prinplup before/after rocks (depending on choice of item) so I might as well include it. You could run Jolly on Sandslash to outpace some scarfers, but I think it's immediate power is too low for this to be worth the trade-off considering that it outpaces the entire unboosted, un-scarfed meta with adamant anyway.
Sandslash has 100 base Attack; Stoutland has base 110. Not sure where you got 125 from. You are right that Sand Rush Stoutland puts more pressure on offensive teams than Sandslash, but Choice Band isn't a good idea as you get at most 5 turns at +2 and you don't want to be forced out by getting locked into one move. Sandslash still outruns Scarf Rotom-F in Sandstorm even if running Adamant, and can run Jolly to outrun Scarf Chatot with Jolly and 180 EVs. Beyond that, what other Scarfers are there?
Oh I was taking the number from memory and messed up my bad lol; idk what I'm mixing it up with but something has base 125 atk that I have to be confusing it with lol. Regardless though the point of my post was more to say that you'd be using the two together, and you have basically answered your own question about scarfers in the post: Scarf Chatot. I don't want to have to run a mediocre/immediately weak nature just to stop Scarf Chatot Boombursting in my face, and I don't want to have to be heavily reliant on getting up an SD under sand just to deal a solid amount of damage to any remotely defensive Pokémon on a neutral hit. I'm not a big PU player so I don't know how popular they are in this itteration of the meta (although judging what the Sandslash meta would be like based on this one is a bit silly considering that different things will be popular--hence why I'm risking bringing them up), but going down the VR list Pokémon that could run potentially good or at least decent Choice Scarf sets include Floatzel, Mr. Mime and the elemental monkeys--all of which outpace (or speed tie in Mr. Mime's case) Sandslash and either hit it super effectively or on it's weaker defensive stat--which most certainly hurts when you consider that it's also taking LO recoil throughout the match. Hell, this LO recoil is precisely the reason why I think that Choice Band Stoutland is a valid option on this core. Not only does the extra immediate power provided by said item make it that much harder to switch into, but considering that it is paired with Sandslash--which can deal heavy damage to all of Return's resistances between EQ and KOff--and considering that its coverage allows it to deal heavy damage to just about every viable switch-in for Normal-type attacks with a little prediction. All in all it really isn't that much of a big deal to be locked into an attack when you'll usually only bother with one of them outside of hard predictions anyway.
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Dear OU, STOP using Zapdos, we want it back
~ Sincerely, UU
Jyoti
Banned deucer.
Not sure if this is the right place to ask or not, but will the quick-drop monthly system stop? I was just wondering about Sylveon's and Conkeldurr's drops' effects on UU and whether that would've caused any drops into RU.
This is wrong
lol
Sand rush stoutland used to be the undisputed king of offense in PU. After the linoone ban, people were hungry for that power in one turn, and they turned to Stoutland. Sand Rush Stoutland is a metagame-defining force, and to say otherwise is flat-out wrong.
CB stout is a completely different set with a completely different purpose. By support if you mean Hippopotas, which does more than just set up sand, yes, it requires hippo. Kabutops requires Politoed in OU; does that make in a "bad set"?
Crunch/Superpower/Return/Play Rough hits the entire metagame, so coverage-wise, it isn't sore.
I don't know what your point is lol
milotic is good lol
I don't want to chew you out or anything, but Stoutland has only gotten better. It's quick feet ursaring and dd fraxure that have dipped.
There are a few people who want this system to go away. (Hell there is even a thread dedicated to wanting its removal) But I don't think it will, at least for a while. Even then, I doubt the UU drops changed much if anything at all. (Well they shouldn't; If anything, Conk is more worthy of RU than Machamp (That, and Machamp will bring No Guard hax bullshit to RU; And it'd just get quickbanned anyway))
(Also why are people still ragging on Milotic when its not even that bad and there are several mons still in UU that are worse than it (Goodra, Donphan, and Vaporeon in particular))
Tbh I'd rather Ambipom stay in RU for the rest of Gen 6 just so it can be that one infamous mon that stayed in the tier it sucked in all the way through
I'd rather it left because it would be a good mon in NU and would be fun to use.
To be honest, I'm not sure Ambipom would be that good in NU. It's faster than Tauros, but the bull has a better movepool and, thanks to Sheer Force, more power. It also has better bulk. No doubt it would be better than it is in RU though.
Milotic needs to drop, between Vaporeon and Alomomola there's little to no reason to use it. Vaporeon hits a bit harder and has Wish and Heal Bell to support its team; Alomomola has Regenerator to make it one of the best Wish passers you can use. Milotic just sits there throwing around Scalds, and quite frankly most of NU's bulky Water types can do that. It gets reliable recovery unlike Empoleon and Suicune, but other than that why would you bother?
OU - give UU back Zapdos, and give it Mew as well while you're at it. UU - give RU Miltotic and possibly Vaporeon. RU - give NU Gurdurr.
Milotic needs to drop, between Vaporeon and Alomomola there's little to no reason to use it. Vaporeon hits a bit harder and has Wish and Heal Bell to support its team; Alomomola has Regenerator to make it one of the best Wish passers you can use. Milotic just sits there throwing around Scalds, and quite frankly most of NU's bulky Water types can do that. It gets reliable recovery unlike Empoleon and Suicune, but other than that why would you bother?
OU - give UU back Zapdos, and give it Mew as well while you're at it. UU - give RU Miltotic and possibly Vaporeon. RU - give NU Gurdurr.
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