1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. Click here to ensure that you never miss a new SmogonU video upload!

Smogon Usage-Based Tier Update: September 2014

Discussion in 'Smogon Metagames' started by Antar, Sep 2, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    11,019
    In fairness RU hoarded pretty well everything last gen. 60+ tier lists 4ever
  2. AJawesome07

    AJawesome07

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    huh. rain could be viable in nu now with ludicolo+kabutops. there are lots of rain setters so this should be interesting.
  3. RyanKoopa

    RyanKoopa

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    165
    Seriously what the hell is RU's problem? No other tier has so much trouble shedding shitmons like Hitmonchan from their ranks. What is it about RU that makes it have so much trouble with this? I'm legitimately curious
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
  4. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Breath of the Wild
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,797
    RU was never good at shedding its bad mons from its tier list, the RU ladder has always been absolutely terrible and uses mons that shouldn't be RU. This was the case even in BW RU when terrible mons like Dusknoir, Sandslash, and Electivire were RU (and they were really horrible), while good mons like Alomomola, Golurk, Roselia, and Scolipede were down in NU, among many other good mons that deserved RU. BW RU also has a long history of poor usage stats that were never an accurate representation of the metagame (Claydol was even #1 in usage when it was RU last gen lol). Apparently RU's poor ladder problems continued into XY RU, that is why we still have really bad mons in RU like Ambipom, Claydol, and Hitmonchan. Incidentally, this is like BW UU all over again, only without Dusclops.

    Oh and welcome back to OU Magnezone.
  5. Choice Banned

    Choice Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    421
    And no surprise, when looking back on the June Stats, Ambipom was #1 on 1000 stats.

    Also, will Wobbuffet with Stag be allowed in RU/NU when Koko retests Shadow Tag?
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
  6. michaeloche

    michaeloche

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,659
    Ambipom is one of those mons that looks good on paper, but is mediocre in practice. It is at least viable, but there are better things.

    To answer the Wobbuffet question, I would guess probably not, as the testing will be designed with UU in mind. I'd probably ask koko to be sure, though.
  7. TheTrueLegendary

    TheTrueLegendary

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    58
    I felt that most of these OU changes were obvious, and fell because of the baton pass nerf. I was pretty suprised to see Kabutops drop, but then again it is only really good with rain support. The use of omastar in RMT's kinda paved it's way up to RU and I kinda find it funny that the 2 fossils switched. I have a lot to say about UU but I don't want to type it all so I'll just say two words to sum it up- "more annoyances." And the rest of the mons were kinda self explainitory imo. If you guys want to see a more in depth disscusion about these changes please check out this video of mine and have a wonderful day.
    Merkur_Lampe likes this.
  8. Choice Banned

    Choice Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    421
    iirc there was a question about this in the NU SQSA, and it said no
  9. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs
    is a Community Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,206
    RU isn't the only tier with this problem. UU managed to hold on to Dusclops for the entirety of BW, and it wasn't until partway into XY before OU finally let go of Donphan (and we had to adjust the stats we use for tiering just for that to happen, lol).
  10. Dark G

    Dark G
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    168
    NU just got a whole lot better with the departure of Spiritomb and the gaining of another spinner in the form of Kabutops :]

    I wish I could use Mawile in NU though. Everybody and their momma knows that's where it's ending up anyway lol

    We can cry about no Savior dog in RU or no Shitmonchan in NU, but the change starts with us

    #StopUsingGarbageOnTheLadder
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  11. Ropeburn

    Ropeburn

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    877
    I have a question: are all tiers using the 1650+ usage stats as a basis for tiering or is that just OU? If so, then how is garbage like Hitmonchan, Claydol and Dusclops still not NU?

    Also, looks like Mawile is going to be tumbling down the ladder. Seriously, if this thing ends up where it was the past few gens, it's going to be one of the longest falls of any generation. Then again, the new fairy typing + Intimidate might be enough to warrant usage.
  12. Antar

    Antar
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Programmeris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Official Data Miner

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,885
    And it's not really a good idea to raise the cutoff higher for the lower tiers--the only reason we get away with it for OU is that OU has such a crazy high number of battles.

    Also, I'm going to go ahead and update that quoted text, since a lot of it was just copy/pasted from June's thread and is since out of date.
  13. Ropeburn

    Ropeburn

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    877
    Ah, sorry about that. I just skimmed through the OP and didn't notice that line. Thanks for the info, though.
  14. BenTheDemon

    BenTheDemon Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,583
    Has that change been implemented for lower tier tiering?
  15. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs
    is a Community Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,206
    There's a post Antar quoted a couple of posts up where it explains how each tier's stats are adjusted for the purposes of tiering. To answer your question, there has been a similar change implemented for lower tier tiering, but it isn't quite the same as that implemented for OU (i.e. the baseline for weighing usage stats is higher for OU than for lower tiers).
    BenTheDemon likes this.
  16. BenTheDemon

    BenTheDemon Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,583
    Gothitelle's rise to OU gave me the idea to start testing it out as both a revenge killer and Stallbreaker.
    And oh my god, this thing is underrated. I hope its rise inspires people to try it out.
  17. Peef Rimgar

    Peef Rimgar Other guys'll just feed ya lies! I'll take ya to MICKEY DS!
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2014
    Messages:
    1,571
    Antar, gorebyss is legal on the PU ladder although it got 4% usage. Just pointing out the mistake bc im getting yelled at for it on twitter lol
    Magnemite likes this.
  18. Antar

    Antar
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Programmeris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Official Data Miner

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,885
  19. Ununhexium

    Ununhexium dog
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Messages:
    3,232
    Totion to change the name of the thread from
    Smogon Usage-Based Tier Update: September 2014

    to

    Smogon (Usage-) Based Tier Update: September 2014

    Because lets be serious here people, tier shifts are pretty damn awesome

    LeoLancaster and Ender Wiggin like this.
  20. theporygon

    theporygon

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Messages:
    23
    Wow, poor pokemon who went from OU to UU. At least it's better than pokes that went straight down to NU. :pirate:
  21. Ruby.

    Ruby.

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    Messages:
    293
    togekiss: OU to UU

    RIP UU in pieces, Air Spam coming right through. I expect a quick ban on this. It can hax the shit out of everything that does not outspeed it and yeah, it might be quickbanned/suspect tested real quick.

    quagsire: OU to UU

    It's one of Darbanditan's counters and hence why is going to enjoy its time in UU.

    kabutops: RU to NU

    it's stronk, quick, and 1337! It can be really great on NU HO teams. It's high attack and speed can allow it to shut down many Pokemon with its decent movepool. I do not expect this to get banned as it is not 'breaking' the meta
  22. TrulyDevious

    TrulyDevious

    Joined:
    May 24, 2014
    Messages:
    222
    Fuck UU, EggPlane, Fairy Princess, Dogfgt and Mermaid just fell. Then again, I say Shaymin and Crobat usage rising :)

    P.S. EggPlane Parahax is shit, I scream quickban. Smeargle and Stall (Blissfgt) are gonna be stronger w/o Hera.
  23. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Ultra Ball off of Abyssal Hand for Lele for Guzma for game
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    7,539
    Jirachi is allowed in UU, right? If the ultimate hax mon isn't banned, why would the hax bird be banned for hax?
  24. TrulyDevious

    TrulyDevious

    Joined:
    May 24, 2014
    Messages:
    222
    Cuz Eggplane has a godly typing in UU?
    RyanKoopa likes this.
  25. Talpr0ne

    Talpr0ne

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,005
    LOLing at Toge getting banned from a tier where Rotom-Heat, Mega-Aerodactyl, Crobat, Blissey, Mega-Ampharos(watch out for Dazzling Gleam), Raikou and other stuff like Rhyperior and Diancie, not to mention faster scarfers are around every corner.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)