CAP 1 Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Poll 3

What is the function of our new pokemon?

  • Physical sweeper

    Votes: 21 10.6%
  • Special sweeper

    Votes: 46 23.1%
  • Mixed sweeper

    Votes: 87 43.7%
  • Physical tank

    Votes: 8 4.0%
  • Special tank

    Votes: 5 2.5%
  • Physical wall

    Votes: 7 3.5%
  • Special wall

    Votes: 3 1.5%
  • Supporter

    Votes: 22 11.1%

  • Total voters
    199
  • Poll closed .
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DougJustDoug

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Here's a crude work-up of the Skiing Bug idea I mentioned earlier when I brought up the "Ski Slope" ability.



I tried to work some form of horns into the thing, since Megahorn is likely inevitable. Conceptually, I was using Ledian as a guide. A skiing or sledding relative of Ledian. Dare I call this thing -- Sledian?

Don't shoot me...
 
I still prefer the picture I posted. I'm probably biased there though. But seriously, I'm willing to bet that the majority of mixed sweeper votes were from people thinking "bug=Megahorn STAB". If there was a notice or something that said it wasn't going to have a horn I am POSITIVE there'd be much less mixed sweeper votes.
 
It would be broken to have Megahorn and Compound Eyes - the accuracy problem is to balance it. Besides, how is a moth going to use a "horn" against anything? I'm fairly confident moths have no horns.

@ futuresuperstar and Mario With Lasers - Why are we giving a moth Fighting-Type moves again? (Reversal/Brick Break/Aura Sphere) And Electric Moves to a Bug/Ice type at all? (Thunderbolt/Discharge/Charge Beam)
 
I'm willing to bet that the majority of mixed sweeper votes were from people thinking "bug=Megahorn STAB". If there was a notice or something that said it wasn't going to have a horn I am POSITIVE there'd be much less mixed sweeper votes.
Agree with you there though I voted for mixed sweeper knowing it most likely won't get a horn big enough to use Megahorn but we still got X-scissor, Bug Bite, U-Turn, Attack Order(LOL, snow queen).

Hawk~ Thinking it might try out to be a humaniod moth or in the humanshape breed group?
 
Ahh, I don't know. MegaMewtwo, I see where you're coming from but we don't have an intimidating bug that's in OU.

Heracross doesn't look that intimidating. And off the top of my head, I can't think of any other Bugs that are in OU (Forretress is in the metagame but I think he's still BL? Regardless, he is not menacing.)

Scizor, eh. But not OU.

I would love a moth with these gigantic wings. When he flaps them, silver snowpowdery dust comes out. I would love to see a special move made similar to Powder Snow, but better.. (combination of Silver Powder / Powder Snow)

Silver Storm --> Bug, 80BP / 100Acc.
Has.. 10% chance of Freeze. (special)

Kay, argue the BP and the % chance of freeze, but I think it'd be pretty cool.

For attacking moves, I wuold give this bug a bug/ice and probably water pulse. After that, HP would have to be for type coverage, this guy can't be too broken w/ moves even though he's super SR fragile.
 


This is roughly what it looks like. She did this on Paint, ON A LAPTOP, and the colours are apparently a bit off. The wings are meant to be snowflakes. And it has cold air around its wings, like Articuno in the 3D games
I like this sprite, but I have to do my weird thing to the poke...

Name: Chillhime (I suck at names)
Mystic Bug Pokemon
Ability: Pick Up and Magic Guard
Third Stage Evo: Larvice---->Clicicle---->Chillhime

Stats:
50 HP/85 Atk/60 Def/125 SpAtk/60 SpDef/ 130 Spd: 510 BST (Weavile/Gliscor tier)

Ok, it is a mixed sweeper, so it have good attacking stats and speed, so it usually ends up being frail. This right here is a glass cannon... Since it is mixed, it needs good offensive stats for both sides of the spectrum, since it doesn't look very physical, I decided to make the attack above average to complement the very high special attack. It is super fast but it would be hard to switch in...


ONLY Physical Movepool:
Head Smash
Focus Punch
Ice Ball
Ice Shard
Icicle Spear
Iron Head
Flail

You may be going, "Holy Crap" right now. How does it Head Smash/Focus Punch or Iron Head. It's head looks pretty hard, so it can smash into stuff. It can Focus, and unleash it into a punch with it's little hands.


Notable Special Movepool:
Ice Beam
Blizzard
Thunderbolt
Thunder
Bug Buzz
Focus Blast
Silver Wind
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Dark Pulse

Yeah, not much to explain, great special movepool that will leave you guessing...It is a pixie so it has to be able to do this stuff...


Notable Support Movepool:
Roost
Whirlwind
Agility
Mystic Power*
Mean Look
Reflect
Light Screen
Safe Guard

Ok, so hardly anything here. I'm to tired to explain but it is pretty obvious...

* Mystic Power (Typless) Raises both Attack and Special Attack one stage.

I hope mystic power doesn't make it too broken, but heh, i tried.
 
Just saying, the cute little guy in the picture is meant to be more of a butterfly than a fairy, although I guess it could have some magical properties. I don't see it as hard-headed, so I'd take out the head attacks (Head Smash + Magic Guard = PAIN) and Focus Punch wouldn't be possible either. Ice Ball doesn't really fit it, but I can see it using the other two physical Ice moves. And as I said earlier, it could possibly use its antennae to perform X-Scissor.

The special side looks good, although I don't see the little guy using electricity.

Support-wise, I can't see it with Mean Look, because it has those cute eyes. I can see Tail Glow, with its tail crystal. Everything else looks good, though. Although I'm not a real fan of that Mystic Power. Before anyone complains about Tail Glow making it overpowered, remember that Infernape learns Nasty Plot, as does Azelf, and neither of those two have been sent to ubers.
 
Do we need /another/ butterfly/moth though? Isn't Butterfree, Venomoth, Beautifly, Dustox, and Mothim enough? I'd much rather see a mantis or ladybug or somesuch rather than yet another moth.
 
Ice/Bug Spider

Hey all. Long time lurker, first time poster. I really have enjoyed reading the "Create A Pokemon" threads, so I thought I'd finally register and start posting. I'm not fully schooled on stats/EVs/IVs etc yet, even though I've been playing Pokemon forever. I've never played competitively, so I figure I'd just contribute on the look aspect. Now, I drew an idea for the Ice/Bug. It basically looks like a tarantula. The end of it's legs are icicles, giving it plenty of opportunity for moves (X-Scissor, Icicle Spear, Ice Shard, etc), and the thorax(?) gives it a place to use special moves. It's really rough. It almost looks like a dark type, and it doesn't have the detail it should. Ha, and as far as the piece of paper with the fangs drawn on, I drew a really crappy mouth so I just covered it up and drew fangs. So, yeah, ignore that... I like the idea of an intimidating spider kind of thing. We have Surskit, Masquerin, Spinarak and Ariados, but I'm not satisfied by any of those. The name is up for grabs; I don't really care. Let me know what you think.

 
Wait, people voted for something with another 4x SR weakness?

Anyways, I'm going to go with special sweeper (actually voted for the wrong choice but it doesn't really matter at this point). Resisting Ice/Ground is kinda cool, but that rock weakness ruins any chance of being a tank/supporter. Bug/Ice is a unique offensive combo, to say the least.
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
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futuresuperstar said:
With Compound Eyes, here is how I could see it working out.

HP -- 55
Attack -- 95
Defense -- 70
Special Attack -- 125
Special Defense -- 65
Speed -- 120
Total -- 530
thats just too powerful, with 125 base sp.attck and 120 base speed it would outspeed and 1ko most OU's, anyway why not make it a bit hore like a mixed sweeper than a super fast sp. sweeper that could use phy. attcks.

It could have access to Blizzard, Bug Buzz, Ice Shard, Megahorn, Ice Beam, Aura Sphere, and the like. Giving this thing Nasty Plot would just be too much.
this movepool looks much more realistic than some that ive seen here but i think that it doesent need Aura Sphere

EDIT: Oh, another ability to think about is Serene Grace. Bug Buzz would have a 20% of dropping the opponent's special defense. Plus, Blizzard would have a 60% chance of freezing, especially useful on a hail team (which most always carries Rapid Spin support, to begin with). It could get some moves to go along with Serene Grace, like Charge Beam or Dark Pulse with its 40% flinch rate.
mabe but do you think that a ice/bug would be Serenely Graceful?

A set of Charge Beam, Ice Beam / Blizzard, Bug Buzz, and Ice Shard / Megahorn / Aura Sphere / Dark Pulse with Serene Grace could be pretty neat.
yes but its not a mixed sweeper and mixed is ahead by miles
I'd still like it to be a little faster, but that's what I'm aiming for. Just remember, HP is pretty worthless on this, it loses half of it. So just go as low as you feel. I would stay above 20 though, don't take away Shuckle's Claim to fame.
look can we get something clear a pokemon with base 110+ speed and 100+ attcks with a modorat movepool would be easyly good eneugh for OU theres no need to give it base 130 speed and 120 attcks unless this is ment to be an uber.

Also, I'd like to make this playable outside of an Abomasnow setting. Hail teams are very rigid in what they can and can't include. a 4x Stealth Rock weak is something they like to avoid.
something with those stats would not need abomnasnow it would slaughter everything anyway.
lets not make this thing a glass cannon it has some nice resistences and although it has some BIG weknesses its doesent need to be as fast as some of you think.
the stats not going to be decided for a while yet and when they are it will be by poll so could people stop sugesting poorly thoughtout stat spreads that will make this a top OU/Uber
 
Judging from all the other Base Stat spreads, I like something like this:

45/110/60/125/65/125 (total: 530)

Since this guy seems like he'd be rather small, HP is really low and Speed is really high. Bugs in real life are never great at defending themselves, though if they bite you, it hurts (high attack) and if they manage to inject you with something special, it hurts even more (higher special attack).
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
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Judging from all the other Base Stat spreads, I like something like this:
the other base stat spreads are wrong and mostly overpowerd.(exept for the 67/102/63/110/60/108 or 67/102/61/112/60/108 spread sugested by gothic togekiss)
45/110/60/125/65/125 (total: 530)
its ment to be a mixed sweeper not a superfast glass cannon
Since this guy seems like he'd be rather small, HP is really low and Speed is really high. Bugs in real life are never great at defending themselves, though if they bite you, it hurts (high attack) and if they manage to inject you with something special, it hurts even more (higher special attack).
can we wait for the sprite to be chosen before sugesting stat spreads, THIS GOES FOR EVERYONE. if your stat spread is realistic then it will probably be put on the stat spread poll, if it looks like a slightly weaker deoxys attck then it will not.
 
Regardless, I think the general consensus is a mixed attacker focused primarily on Special Atack.

Edit: Would this be more modest: 50/110/60/120/65/115 (total: 520)?
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
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Regardless, I think the general consensus is a mixed attacker focused primarily on Special Atack.
yes i agree

Edit: Would this be more modest: 50/110/60/120/65/115 (total: 520)?
its better but compare it to other mixed sweepers and you will find thats its still a bit to strong
try more like
70/105/67/115/63/105 (total 525)
this with a good movepool would be a standerd, so everyone try not to make it more powerful than this.
 
Eric, you are being overly negative.

Weavile = 120 Atk + 125 Speed (sound familiar?)
Alakazam = 135 SAtk + 120 Speed (sound familiar? and its not even OU)
Azelf = 125 in both Atks and 115 Speed

these are all pokemon with out some crippling weak. I don't see Weavile 4x Fighting weak as a problem, it outspeeds all of them. that's what we are trying to accomplish, a very speedy Mixed sweeper that can actually attack. We don't want this thing to become BL or low OU, wheres the fun in that? 135 Speed might have been a little drastic, but does it really matter when anything with Choice Scarf can say high and kill it?
 

Gmax

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45/110/60/125/65/125 doesn't sound extremely bad. Its disgusting defenses and awful typing are crippling enough. BTW Eric, if you're making a post, you could at least put in enough effort to get the spellings right, if that even requires any excessive effort...
 
Ok look at what Infernape does to OU. Now look at his stats. Now look at your stats. Very ambitious I'm sure you agree. Can you see the problem here?
 

Gmax

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Ok look at what Infernape does to OU. Now look at his stats. Now look at your stats. Very ambitious I'm sure you agree. Can you see the problem here?
Infernape can one shot a lot of stuff thanks to his excellent STAB attacks, and he isn't 4x Rock Weak giving him an easier switch in than this thing will have. And Infernape can be countered by repeated switching while LO damage takes its toll. Infernape doesn't have Ice typing. STAB Close Combat is an OHKO on Blissey coming from Infernape. Infernape would always be better than this thing, as long as this thing doesn't go the Megahorn route.

OK, how's this? 50/110/60/112/57/121
That wouldn't be broken even with Megahorn.
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
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hyra said:
Eric, you are being overly negative.

Weavile = 120 Atk + 125 Speed (sound familiar?)
weavile is a top OU pokemon, its walled by a lot of things, and its sp. attck is craptastic.
Alakazam = 135 SAtk + 120 Speed (sound familiar? and its not even OU)
zam has a huge pursuit weakness and is easy to wall with bliss, it has a craptastic attck.
Azelf = 125 in both Atks and 115 Speed
ok this has good in both attcks but it lacks a phy. movepool to go with the attck, and other than explodeing it cant hurt bliss, also it has a weakness to pursuit.
these are all pokemon with out some crippling weak. wrong the psychics have a pursuit weakness, and weavile is walled by most phy. walls. I don't see Weavile 4x Fighting weak as a problem, it outspeeds all of them. that's what we are trying to accomplish, a very speedy Mixed sweeper that can actually attack. dont try to put words in peoples mouths not all of us want that, i for one think it should have between 102 and 112 base speed. We don't want this thing to become BL or low OU, wheres the fun in that? if every pokemon we create is a high-mid OU theyn will not be accsepted, some of the most fun pokemon to use are the low OU/ BL pokemon. why? beocause there not on every team and they have interesting abilitys
135 Speed might have been a little drastic, but does it really matter when anything with Choice Scarf can say high and kill it? yes it does. if it requires a revenge kill its already killed something, and it could always carry a CS itself
I'm amazed that people thought my post about Slack Off Infernape was serious.
well yore new so people dont know so well
 

DougJustDoug

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For those that were out for a while (I assume nighttime overseas), any thoughts on the "Ski Slope" idea I posted earlier?

If you add a bunch of snow to a rocky mountainside, you turn hazardous terrain into a recreational ski resort. What if we created an ability called "Ski Slope" that conveys immunity to Rock?

It would get rid of a crippling 4x weakness and turn it into a nice advantage. It's no more gamebreaking than Levitate. It would allow this pokemon to treat SR like Levitators treat Spikes. It also gives this pokemon a legitimate defensive capability. I can imagine it being an all-purpose switch in for threats to Salamence with resistance to ice moves and immunity to the Stone Edges constantly thrown Mence's way. There's lots of stuff that hates rock, that would love this guy on their team. Sure, it will never be a defensive force with a 4x weakness to Fire and 2x weakness to Flying and Steel, but it could patch up the horrendous typing of this thing.

Conceptually, we could pursue a Skiing Bug theme. Sounds hokey, but we already have a Boxing Pig-Monkey, right? Different variations could be snowboarding, sleds, toboggans, or even luge. All of these also convey the idea of speed, which is nice for a sweeper. With the right design, I think it could work.

I like the "Ski Slope" name, but other names like "Fresh Powder" or "Soft Snow" might work. Just another idea to help cover the typing problems that otherwise make this pokemon hopelessly unusable....
I think an ability like this could drastically change the "mixed sweeper" concept currently being discussed. Right now, everyone seems to be centering on an Infernape-like pokemon. With this pokemon's huge type weaknesses, it's probably the only viable option. With a Rock immunity, I think other mixed concepts could be considered. Namely -- Mixmence and Mixpert. Both of those pokemon have one common 4x weakness and a useful immunity. Perhaps they could serve as an inspirational guide for this ice bug, assuming we could turn one horrendous 4x weakness into a useful immunity.

Note, I don't mind the Infernape thing. I just think we should spread the field of discussion a bit and consider some other ideas. I think this ability proposal might allow that to happen. Whereas, right now, there aren't many other ways to make this pokemon work without making it a super-fast, heavy-hitting glass cannon.
 
if we do decide to send it to nintendo, we need to send links to all the different polls, so they know it wasn't made up on a whim, but many people who know what they are doing voted on it. in fact, we might even to convince colin to implement it in shoddy battle if we came up with a sprite and everything, making it outlawed in ladder play of course. if we could save LOTS of battle logs in a zip folder, we could send those to nintendo as well, showing examples of both its strengths and weaknesses.
anyone agree or have any ideas?
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
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i agree with fresh on the post before this one

gmax said:
Infernape can one shot a lot of stuff thanks to his excellent STAB attacks(ice is more popular than fire and but is great for taking down walls), and he isn't 4x Rock Weak giving him an easier switch in than this thing will have (fair eneugh but that doesn't mean we should give it Uberfied stats, many powerfull pokemon have big weaknesses but they just require more team suport). And Infernape can be countered by repeated switching while LO damage takes its toll(stalling out LO is not the best way to counter 'nape, and some dont run LO). Infernape doesn't have Ice typing (ice can be used to your abvantige, its a great STAB). STAB Close Combat is an OHKO on Blissey coming from Infernape(blissey should not be switching into mixed sweepers). Infernape would always be better than this thing, as long as this thing doesn't go the Megahorn route (how so? there diferent pokemon they have diferent types (and so diferent STAB's, weaknesses, resistences) and they will have diferent movepools, its like saying mixape is better than mixmence).

OK, how's this? 50/110/60/112/57/121
thats much better than your previous sugestion but if it has a good movepool (and mabe ice shell) it could still be a bit overpowered, mabe slightly lower speed? and some defences it does have some neat resistances you know.
That wouldn't be broken even with Megahorn.
DougJustDoug said:
If you add a bunch of snow to a rocky mountainside, you turn hazardous terrain into a recreational ski resort. What if we created an ability called "Ski Slope" that conveys immunity to Rock?
DougJustDoug said:
i dont agree with this logic, ice gets smashed if it is hit by a rock, and how would making a ski slope stop the rock flying at your head?

It would get rid of a crippling 4x weakness and turn it into a nice advantage true. It's no more gamebreaking than Levitate not so true, there where ground imueitys before levitate but there has never been a rock imuity, the levitators where useful to stop ground from being overused but rock is in no danger of being overused . It would allow this pokemon to treat SR like Levitators treat Spikes it would. It also gives this pokemon a legitimate defensive capability. I can imagine it being an all-purpose switch in for threats to Salamence with resistance to ice moves and immunity to the Stone Edges constantly thrown Mence's way what about flamethrowers?. There's lots of stuff that hates rock, that would love this guy on their team theres lots of pokemon that resist rock to such a degree that they take next to no damidge. Sure, it will never be a defensive force with a 4x weakness to Fire and 2x weakness to Flying and Steel, but it could patch up the horrendous typing of this thing.

Conceptually, we could pursue a Skiing Bug theme. Sounds hokey, but we already have a Boxing Pig-Monkey, right? Different variations could be snowboarding, sleds, toboggans, or even luge. All of these also convey the idea of speed, which is nice for a sweeper. With the right design, I think it could work.
i supose... well if you post a sprite and backsprite in the art compotition you could get a place on the poll.


I like the "Ski Slope" name, but other names like "Fresh Powder" or "Soft Snow" might work. Just another idea to help cover the typing problems that otherwise make this pokemon hopelessly unusable....

the type ice/bug is quite good as a mixed sweeper and thats what it looks like it will be so why try to pach up its pathetic defences with flawed logic?
sorry if im being a bit harsh but i dont like the idea, if its got a 4x weakness to sommethig by its type then you have to have some prety good reasoning to remove it
i am gengar said:
if we do decide to send it to nintendo, we need to send links to all the different polls, so they know it wasn't made up on a whim, but many people who know what they are doing voted on it.
i doubt nintendo will accsept our idea but i supose it may be worth a try
in fact, we might even to convince colin to implement it in shoddy battle if we came up with a sprite and everything (the great thing is we dont need to convince anyone so long as we have a good programer he/she could add it to a new server mabe the "smogon new pokemon server"), making it outlawed in ladder play of course (we could make it leagal on our server). if we could save LOTS of battle logs in a zip folder, we could send those to nintendo as well, showing examples of both its strengths and weaknesses.
this may acctuly work exept i dont think nintendo has much (or any) interest in competive play, 95% of people who buy the games never learn about tiers or other aspects of competive pokemon. its worth a try.
 
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