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CAP 1 Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Poll 5

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by Cooper, Dec 16, 2007.

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What will be the stats of our new pokemon? (speed last)

Poll closed Dec 19, 2007.
  1. 80/ 105/ 65/ 115/ 70/ 115 (Total 550)

    22 vote(s)
    10.3%
  2. 105/ 80/ 60/ 120/ 75/ 110 (Total 550)

    33 vote(s)
    15.5%
  3. 70/ 100/ 75/ 105/ 80/ 115 (Total 545)

    17 vote(s)
    8.0%
  4. 47/ 125/ 75/ 105/ 70/ 123 (Total 545)

    70 vote(s)
    32.9%
  5. 70/ 116/ 70/ 114/ 64/ 121 (Total 555)

    71 vote(s)
    33.3%
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  1. Pneuma

    Pneuma

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    I liked MwL's stats since he could actually take a hit and outrun most things while still maintaining decent power. I'll mention again, a pokemon 4x weak to SR needs all the help it can get.
    Interestingly enough, I voted his option without even noticing that it was 555 base stat total instead of 545 or 550.
  2. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
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    Read my comments about Gyarados, Bronzong, Suicune, Registeel, Jirachi, Milotic, Regice (it isn't even a physical wall, but whatever), Regirock, Swampert, Hariyama, RAIKOU, Miltank (I only mentioned the Scrappy version, but using your brain, you'll notice the problem with the Thick Fat version), GENGAR, Metagross and Dusknoir on my first post in the topic.
  3. Cooper

    Cooper
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    Looking at the stats again, I realize that Hyras and MWLs are the only that really make sense. With typing that is apparently terrible (I still don't see why), it's pointless trying to make this guy bulky, or even capable of taking a hit. In most cases it will only be functioning at 50%. Think of it like Deoxys-A. No defenses to speak of, so it needs attack and speed to compensate.
  4. Suburvia

    Suburvia

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    That is exactly why I think that Hyra's is the best. MWL stated that he at least wanted it to be able to come in on an Earthquake or Ice Beam if need be, right? Well, considering that he's almost certain to be at 50% health on the switchin, and that the defenses of MWL's stats still aren't fantastic by any stretch, he probably isn't taking any powerful hits anytime soon. Sure, he'll be able to come in on, say, Blissey Ice Beam, but unless it has Guts, say goodbye if she uses T-Wave. Sorry, what I'm saying is that he might be able to come in on weak attacks that hit him for NVE, but those are usually coming from walls that can cripple him anyway.

    Now, Hyra's has this exact same problem, and he dies even easier, but his offensive stats are even better to make up for it, outspeeding just about everything except for Weavile and the 130 group. He can also 2HKO Blissey more reliably, and still pound things into the ground with 105 base Sp. Atk. I see it acting just like Infernape. He has a hard time getting in, but once he does, he can steamroll right through entire teams. . . And Hyra's has the best potential for this.
  5. Dilasc

    Dilasc

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    I think that we should give this thing an ability that causes it to trade weaknesses and resistances. I'm sure all of the stat spreads would enjoy the quad rock and fire resist, even if they have to take an ice and ground weakness in return, and grass too I guess.
  6. Kingdrom

    Kingdrom

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    I picked the fourth choice. I think everyone agrees that if you are going to be coming in with 50% health most of the time, your other defenses don't really matter, especially with the Bug/Ice typing.

    123 speed is really ideal imo. Outspeeds base 120's and weavile if it doesn't have jolly+full speed ev's. This would be like Infernape, but with a much better attack stat.
  7. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Photorealistic Seagull (PSG)
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    Automatically assuming Stealth Rock is absurd. This thing is threatening ebough to be used as a starter and basically slaughter all the common Stealth Rock starters. Hippowdon risks being Blizzarded to death, Swampy would be taken out by HP Grass or Energy Ball(if this has it), Forry by HP Fire.

    105 is not enough SA to pound things into the ground without something like Thunder and an SE one at that. Skarmory Brave Bird OHKOs this. Bronzong Gyro Ball OHKOs it. Forry Gyro Ball OHKOs it. Steelix Gyro Ball OHKOs it. Snorlax Body Slam 2HKOs it. When every popular tank in existence (bar Cress/Bliss) can one-shot a pokemon with 0 EV investment it isn't going to be OU. It means that this can't switch in on any of them reliably because any attack, SR or no, will wipe it out. Adamant Scarfchomp EQ 2HKO's it half the time. Fire Blast is a OHKO, Draco Meteor does 72-84%.

    Hyra's defenses are just too flawed. 45 HP only works for Dusknoir because its defense is just shy of Skarmory and it's SD equals Blissey. It also has 2 immunities to work with and Pain Split.

    MwL's variation benefits from the fact it still outspeeds Base 120s and it won't instantly die to any Steel tank's attack before Stealth Rock.

    Ice Punch sucks. The only reason to pump attack on Ice/Bug is to boost Megahorn and maybe Earthquake or whatever other physical options it gets. If we don't give it Megahorn and it just ends up with X-Scissor, congratulations, we've built a worse Scizor with noverlty special attacking options that it fires off once before getting owned.

    The 4x weaknesses are terrible. The 2x weaknesses are managable. Flying is rare and predictable and hopefully this will be able to 2HKO any Steel that comes in. And even still, a lot of things carrying fire and rock attacks are, oddly enough, weak to ice.
  8. peach

    peach

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    I voted for Hyra's spread because I think that this Pokémon fits the role of a glass cannon sweeper given its horrible defensive typing. And it has the highest speed.
  9. scorchedsky

    scorchedsky

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    I had to go with MwL's spread. 121 speed is interesting, and allows for cool spreads to outspeed certain threats. The defenses just seem appropriate for its role, and 555 doesn't bother me too much (hi Arcanine)...47 HP is just unmanageable, sorry. 231 max HP with no investment is just not gonna survive much of anything.
  10. Jace the Mind Sculptor

    Jace the Mind Sculptor

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    Would it be logicle that once this poll is over, to possibly recreate the same poll with the top 3 stat distributions and 2 extra ones not posted up there? I personally think that the stats of this made up pokemon is too important to be determined in just one poll. I mean I kinda regret picking my option, >_>. Granted, alot of people will just pick the same spread as they did the first time, but this time there could be more thinking involved and possibly a new spread that is even better than these. I know you dont want anyone to suggest new spreads in this poll, but its just a suggestion if ya would like the best possible stat distribution of this made up pokemon.
  11. Cooper

    Cooper
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    3N3MY: It's definitely possible that I'll take your suggestion. This has been the closest poll so far, and with the way things are now, the winning spread will be decided by one or two votes. If there is a Poll 5, part 2, it will only involve the top two though. The third place option doesn't even have half as many votes as the 2nd place option.
  12. blastoiselover100

    blastoiselover100

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    On that note, how are you going to do the poll for the abilities? Are you going to put all of the abilities up for vote, or just a few good ones or what?
  13. Cooper

    Cooper
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    The ones that have been discussed in the threads (Magic Guard, Ice Shell, Mountaineer, Compoundeyes), as well as other Ice or Bug related ones (Snow Cloak, Snow Warning, Shed Skin).
  14. Jenigmat

    Jenigmat

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    Idk, I could see something like Shield Dust on it. I mean, bugs on their own are associated with it. To add to that, like, ice crystals or snow or something. Shield Dust just seems like it could fit.
  15. Dilasc

    Dilasc

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    I've been trying to draw discussion to Inverse for a while but nothing seems to spark.

    Inverse basically switches resistances with weaknesses while not changing immunities.

    For instance, let's say we give it to Mamoswine, then Mamoswine becomes weak only to poison 2x while it resists fire, grass, water, steel and fighting and is immune to electric.

    Let's say we give it to Crobat: it becomes 4x weak to bug, fight and grass types as well as 2x weak to poison. In return, it resists boltbeam, rock, and psychic, and still remains immune to ground. The rock resistance would include Stealth Rocks. When using Roost, it would take halved ground damage (it's Crobat so almost everything will strike slower

    Keep in mind, I'd never seriously give those abilities to either of those (well back when Mamoswine didn't exist, Piloswine would have loved it.) I'd say that a creature like our ice/bug (is it Ice/bug or bug/ice?) would enjoy an ability like this to swap out his fire and rock weakness, even if he trades them (and a lesser steel and flying) for ice, ground and bug.

    Any thoughts on this?
  16. Cooper

    Cooper
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    I don't like it. Unless it's active as the pokemon comes in, it will still take 50% from SR. And weaknesses to the two most common attack types with poor defenses is not the best thing to have.
  17. Dilasc

    Dilasc

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    It does, meaning Stealth Rock 4x resistance, meaning easy access to flee and return later... I guess Ice Shard could spell trouble though.

    Of course, I should have posted this ability a long time ago before everyone voted a glass cannon.... Eh, but what can be done about that now? I'm still gonna suggest it as an option.
  18. Hyra

    Hyra
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    Wow, this is really close.

    To Decknight, adding even 50 HP doesn't matter, because it will lose even more. I want to minimalize the effect the HP has on the defences.

    To everyone else, MwL's spread is a less polarized version of mine. I'm not sure how much good an extra 20 HP is going to do, but I do know the extra attack helps.
  19. Superbro

    Superbro

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    Man, this is a close tie. I hope mwl's wins.
  20. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Photorealistic Seagull (PSG)
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    It's 9 Base attack vs 23 Base HP, or 18 total attack vs 46 total HP.

    Percentage-wise, the tradeoff greatly favors MwL's spread.

    Your minimum HP is 235. His is 281. Your attack is 349, his is 331. That's a 19.6% increase in overall durabilty for a loss of 5.4% attack damage. MwL makes up that loss in special attack power, which is what you'll need to take out most walls.

    With a little EV investment in HP or Defense, MwL's spread won't always be OHKO'd by Skarm Brave Bird, whereas your spread will always fall to those physical walls every time. It can't take them out fast enough, and it can't survive the return blow. Adamant Scarfchomp reliably 2HKO's your spread every time with EQ. With minor HP or Defense investment MwL's can avoid a 2HKO. A glass cannon is no good if it can't break walls. At 235 min HP, One layer of spikes Almost puts you in the 2HKO range of Seismic Toss. Life Orb ensures that two Seismic Tosses or Night Shades ends it. If SR is down forget it, you're left with 118 HP. Choice Banded Sucker Punch from Dugtrio finishes it off, Life Orbed does so half the time.

    This thing being effective with your spread relies on specific movepool options. To stop Skarm it needs Thunderbolt or Thunder. To beat Bronzong it needs Megahorn and a boosting item equipped. It needs to load a lot into SA to beat Forretress and again needs Thunder. To beat Steelix it needs to hit it on the switch. Not even STAB Max SA LO Blizzard can take out Steelix.

    Which means when the topic of movepool comes up we essentially need to give your variant at least 3 120 BP moves. Megahorn depends heavily on appearance. If it doesn't have a big-ass horn it shouldn't get Megahorn. Thunder is more fudgeable but still needs justification. Blizzard is the easy in.

    All I'm saying is, It isn't worth losing 20% of your durability to block 23 total Stealth Rock damage. As it stands, even if MwL's version comes in on Stealth Rock to revenge kill, It can still eat a Seismic Toss and fire 2 LO orb attacks, your version can only eat one Seismic Toss before it succumbs to LO.

    For further dissertation, what makes Heracross so scary is that even if something survives it's attack, it probably won't be OHKOd in return. Hera's defenses are 80/75/95. This means it can afford to switch in on a resistance and take some damage and then hit something hard. It can keep switching in at opportune times and also revenge kill. If Hera went limp-wristed at the prospect of switching in to say, Starmie Surf it wouldn't be popular. Remember that this still has to switch in, and if 80% of pokemon 2HKO it at 100% HP, then 80% of pokemon OHKO it after rocks are set up. Also remember if rocks are up it can switch in a maximum of two times, once if it has even HP or Life Orb.
  21. Hyra

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    Heracross doesn't have a 4x Stealth Rock weak, that's why its so scary.

    Deck Knight, this is meant to be an expert level Pokemon. I don't want it to hand games over, but it can. What Skarmory can take two Blizzards? You also ignore the fact that I could easily, easily run a +Atk nature, and achieve the same attack stat, or higher, with more Special Attack. Infernape will probably switch to Max Speed to counter people who do so, but it makes them either less durable or weaker on their other offense.

    And now that you mention Thunder, originally I requested for Thunder not to be included. It would fry Milotic, Suicune, and Vaporeon (not so much), some of the Pokemon who could take Megahorn and Blizzard. If you feel like making this more powerful, and stopable by only Regice, Dusknoir, and faster things, be my guest.
  22. bulbasauresrec

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    Option 4 would be the real Glass Cannon. Limited to 1-2 switch in depending on StealthRock and Spikes. With SandStorm or Hail he would be limited to 1 switch in.
    And 50% from Stealth Rock with a CBed Bullet Punch from Metagross should be an instant KO.
    Option 4 thus makes him a good sweeper with higher stats than most mixed sweepers and good speed yet NOT overpowered due to its being VERY VERY easy to take down, especially with priority moves.
  23. MegaMewtwo

    MegaMewtwo

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    I think the big reason people ignore your posts is because that ability MAKES NO SENSE on an icy bug. Seriously, what part of icy bug says "reversed weaknesses and resistances"? The only kind of thing I can see that ability making any sense on is some kind of wacky Psychic type.

    Remember, this thing isn't all numbers. What Pokemon can do is limited by what they are, if you get what I'm saying.
  24. Drakhun

    Drakhun

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    Can I change my vote, I hate the option that's winning. Base 47 hp says:

    'Hai, kill me with any priotity move plx <3'

    As much as I like option 2, I realy feel compelled to vote against option 4, because honestly it sucks so hard.
  25. Dilasc

    Dilasc

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    Well then the order of creation is a bit out of whack then I'd suppose.

    In any case, I could think of some reasons. It's icy cold hide might just be very good at nullifying fires, and in return, even if icy, it itself could be set to survive best at a certain cold temperature, and if exposed to colder, it'll get hurt badly. Perhaps its flying resistance is explainable by some way to catch air particles and make them less harmful... that or it's so cold that birds don't want to eat it. The other types just fall into place with it. BAM! A B explanation that can go a long way to remove a big debilitation.... at a price.
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