Call it THUNDERBALL. A Physical Electric move. We could give it to Golem and LOL at Rock Polish + THUNDERBALL. GL Waters >_> Would it be kind of lame on Trode due to low attack? Yeah, probably. Coming up with a formula would be difficult though. BP = (Your Speed - Opponents Speed) * Your Speed/500) So we go with 416 Trode on random 264 Pokemon. 416 - 264 = 152 * 416/500 = 152 *0.83 = 126 Hmm. Lets take Max Speed Trode Vs Max Speed Crobat, Swellow, and Starmie. 416 - 394 = 22 * 0.83 = 18 416 - 383 = 33 * 0.83 = 27 416 - 361 = 55 * 0.83 = 45 Hmm... Rather lame. Lets go further down. Max Speed Manaphy, Sharpedo, Gyarados. 416 - 328 = 88 * 0.83 = 73 416 - 317 = 99 * 0.83 = 83 416 - 287 = 129 * 0.83 = 107 Vs. Standard Bulky Gyara 416 - 233 = 183 * 0.83 = 152 (capped 150.) Speed at which Thunderbal hits cap for Trode: 150/0.83 = 181. 416 - 181 = 235. Alright, so Thunderball works for Trode. What about the next fastest viable pokemon on the list (I'm using Gyro Ball as a base). Heh, it's Starmie itself. 361/500 = 0.72 361 - 328 = 33 * 0.72 = 23 361 = 317 = 44 * 0.72 = 32 361 - 287 = 74 * 0.72 = 53 361 - 233 = 128 * 0.72 = 92 Speed at which Thunderball for Starmie hits cap: 150/0.72 = 208. 361 - 208 = 153. So the formula seems to work out OK. If we keep only Gyro Ball as possible learners, this means the most viable user is probably going to be Rock Polish Golem and Agiligross. Golem after Rock Polish: 378 or 418. Metagross after Agility: 479 or 524. If you guys have an idea to balance out the formula to make it less lame on the front end, I'd be glad to hear it. When you consider how many scarfers their are, Thunderball does have the potential to be lame, but it could put a lot of hurt on slow walls (hiya Walrein and Slowbro). On the other hand, you could combine Thunderball with Scarf for damage, or Agilitypass to others for a surprise factor. Thunderballing Forretress? It could happen. EDIT: Actually, Donphan gets Rock Polish too. Return of a meaner, more attack oriented Donphan? Swift Swim Qwilifish could also do a kind of physical Thunderdance with the move, and Hitmontop does get Agility. Could also be interesteing on Scarf'd Typhlosion, physical keeps it from being too broken. Claydol and Lunatone might be able to use it in some kind of perverse mixed Boltbeam way. Solrock can also RP. And it adds just one more thing to Mew's long list. Even further, since the forumula works comparitively, Thunder Wave could be used to slow an opponent down, although you'd have a pretty bad multiplier (hiya Milty), and two electric moves.