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CAP 1 Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Reflections, Opinions, and Closing

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by Cooper, Jan 16, 2008.

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Are You Satisfied with how the First "Create A Pokemon" Turned Out?

  1. Yeah, I felt it was handled really well

    147 vote(s)
    42.5%
  2. Well, it was alright, but a few changes need to be made

    106 vote(s)
    30.6%
  3. No, I hated it

    19 vote(s)
    5.5%
  4. I really liked it, but I think the pokemon is broken, so I'm going to be stupid and say no

    43 vote(s)
    12.4%
  5. "Create A Pokemon?"

    31 vote(s)
    9.0%
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  1. sanjay120

    sanjay120

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    Theorymon's the only way we can argue it for precisely that reason.
  2. Derek(PUK)

    Derek(PUK)

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    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34726

    did anyone? ever make a move for this poll, i think syclant needs a double stab on the physical side ice punch isnt strong enough. maybe something like..

    Ice jab

    20% freeze chance
    power: 95
    Accuracy: 70

    compound eyes anyone?
  3. Cooper

    Cooper
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    We decided asking GF for a new moves as well as a new pokemon and ability would be too much. And that move is too broken with 135 base and 20% hax rate.
  4. Derek(PUK)

    Derek(PUK)

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    10% then.. and not 135 base, 95 base 135 after STAB. also may i point out things like garchomp have more powerful moves STABed like EQ of a 14 more base attack? or t-tar stone edge so its not "broken" with 10% freeze rate
  5. Hyra

    Hyra
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    Doesn't matter. We decided against a new move in its entirety. You cannot convince us now.
  6. Cooper

    Cooper
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    Telling the base power before STAB is a way of convincing the ignorant. Something with 90 base to you will always have 135 to me. And base power doesn't even matter with a 1/5 chance of freezing. Your Earthquake reference is irrelevant. Hyper Beam has a base power of 225 on Porygon - Z, but I still don't use it....

    Yeah, but arguing is so much fun, and no one pays attention to this thread anymore.... Come on Doug or Cyzir, I need you!!!
  7. Hyra

    Hyra
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    Agreed. I want pictures!

    Doug/Cyzir/KoA get off your lazy arses and make pictures.

    [/britishness]
  8. GengarCrysis92

    GengarCrysis92

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    Coop, how is the letter/e-mail going?
  9. Surgo

    Surgo goes to eleven
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    Good show, guys. Here's hoping that the next one doesn't end up dumb broken.
  10. Cooper

    Cooper
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    It's not. I still need examples of how Syclant works in battle. I'd bet money that GF won't accept something that completely decimates the metagame, and with AA ignoring me and Doug understandably yet annoyingly taking time to make his own shoddy server, I don't see testing anytime soon.
  11. Hyra

    Hyra
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    Yay! We are winning. First Jibaku starts posting, and then Surgo complements us. Give it another year and we will have a large gathering and Smogon analysi. [/wishfulness]

    Anyways, I plan on controlling the next one, no matter how broken Ghost is.
  12. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
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    I plan to load up all the Shoddy .jar files tomorrow. Then begins the laborious task of building a running version (no mods). That could take five minutes, five days, or five weeks. I won't know until I try it. If I can get everything running, then things get easier from there. Based on the code documentation, I don't think Syclant will be hard to do.

    After that, I have no idea where I'll host the running server. I don't have a static IP address, but I'm sure I can figure something out.

    After I get Syclant running on Shoddy, any future pokemon should be a breeze. But this first one is going to take a while. Be patient. I write code for a living, so it's not the most fun thing to do in my spare time.
  13. Cooper

    Cooper
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    I'm patient. Even though I have no idea what programming is, I was assuming from the start it would take a while. Just keep up the good work.
  14. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
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    I realize it's just the desire to get our hands on this thing and test drive it.

    I was REALLY hoping we could tap into someone else that has digested the learning curve on Shoddy code. If they wouldn't even respond to your e-mail , they're either really busy or total jerks. Maybe a little of both. Regardless, it's probably worth it to invest in getting "one of us" familiar with it. That way we won't have to beg for help every time we make one of these.
  15. Dragontamer

    Dragontamer

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    By request... the Dragontamer Statistics :-)

    Assuming a neutral nature, Scylant has...
    Defense Tier: 113.40 (Azelf Tier) to 118.73 (Mew Tier)
    Sp. Def Tier: 112.66 (Yanmega Tier) to 118.20 (Mew Tier)
    SkarmCents: 36 to 59
    BlissCents: 26 to 36



    Similar Sp. Def tier...
  16. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    cool! what about its attacks?
    and that mew bit, is that mew with no ev's and 'ant with 252/252?
  17. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
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    Progress report on getting Syclant into a Shoddy mod server:

    I spent a long time trying to get all the Shoddy jars into my Eclipse IDE. That did not go well. Shoddy appears to be written with the NetBeans IDE. It's all Java, so I could probably slog through everything and get all the classes loaded. But, the build and deploy files all appear to be fitted to NetBeans. As such, it would take even more work for me to compile a server with Eclipse. Ugh. Even if I was willing to do all that, it would take even more work for me to stay on top of updates to Shoddy, since I would have my own little Eclipse-ized version to maintain.

    I really don't want to reinvent a bunch of wheels here.

    So, although I hate learning a new IDE, I've decided to get NetBeans (it's free) and try and get this stuff loaded there. Great, now I have an IDE learning curve to deal with....

    On the bright side, I'm more confident than ever that from a pure coding standpoint, this isn't going to be terribly hard. However, all the work I'm doing now, has very little to do with coding or the game of pokemon. It's a bunch of issues trying to get into a position to actually write some code. Very frustrating.

    I let you know how it's progressing.
  18. Surgo

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    Can't you just run java -jar from the command line and say "fuck you" to all the IDE nonsense?
  19. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
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    I could, but I'm also trying to figure out the Shoddy object model. Getting everything into the IDE makes it easier to browse Class hierarchies, method senders and implementers, etc.

    I just got everything into NetBeans today. I haven't seen NetBeans in a long time, but it sure isn't "pure java". Once I pointed NetBeans at the sources, it figured everything out. But, I was surprised how proprietary everything is. Particularly the UI's in the Shoddy Client. Easy enough to figure out, but not "plain ole java" like I was expecting.

    In Shoddy, a lot of the data is in the form of serialized objects stored in files. Sifting through that has been a joy.

    But, on the whole, I'm surprised how intuitive the object model is put together. It's actually very close to some object models of Pokemon that I made a few years ago.
  20. Rena22

    Rena22

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    Im not sure if im too late or not but for the analysis, i still reckon a CB set is worth mentioning. It gives it an extra physical option (such as Stone Edge or Fire/Ice/Thunder Fang - or even Blizzard/Ice Beam for the likes of Skarm, Donphan and Hippowdon), and the option of having Superpower (as opposed to the Swords Dance set where only Brick Break is an option).
  21. Sunday

    Sunday God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
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    My opinion on this matter has already been well defined several times. On a Pokemon like this stat upping > Choicing. The Choice Specs set is only viable because Syclant has no other way of increasing it's Satk bar Batton Pasers. When we get the Shoddy server up and running I will personaly test out every conceivable Syclant set (Great work with that BTW, Doug!), including the most outlandish such as counter-sash leads, and if they are effective or viable they will be added.
  22. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    maybe say somethignin other options about why not to use CB then?
    and can you repost the analersys on this page so people will see it?
    and i cant wait to try it out! go doug!
  23. Cooper

    Cooper
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    Wait, I forget. Is there a reason Tail Glow isn't in the egg moves? I mean, it could just be that I forgot to put it there (learns it from Volbeat), but I want to check before I do something stupid. Did someone bring up a good argument against it or something?

    If it does go in the egg moves, you're one set short Lord_Sunday, because Specs will no longer be a good option.
  24. Jenigmat

    Jenigmat

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    I remember Tail Glow never being in the movelist, but it was never really debated. I believe the original complete moveset didn't have it and it was never really talked about. Not necessarily any sort of reason against it.
  25. Cooper

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    I remember wanting it in ever since I realized it could be bred, and it does make sense flavor-wise. It's just that I forgot if any argument was made. If not, Syclant learns Tail Glow. An argument for it is Syclant can't get Earth Power and Tail Glow on the same set.
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