CAP 1 Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Reflections, Opinions, and Closing

Are You Satisfied with how the First "Create A Pokemon" Turned Out?

  • Yeah, I felt it was handled really well

    Votes: 147 42.5%
  • Well, it was alright, but a few changes need to be made

    Votes: 106 30.6%
  • No, I hated it

    Votes: 19 5.5%
  • I really liked it, but I think the pokemon is broken, so I'm going to be stupid and say no

    Votes: 43 12.4%
  • "Create A Pokemon?"

    Votes: 31 9.0%

  • Total voters
    346
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btw, how many Blissey uses Flamethrower.
Fucking all of them thanks to Obi.

In any event, I'd like to see you guys setting up with Mr. Paperdefense who just took SR damage (or will whiff his strong attacks).
 
I didn't think about it, but yea. The fact that Superpower+Tail Glow is illegal makes it that much more viable. Any strong special wall is capable of taking this thing's attacks. You can't only look at the damage it'll do with a Tail Glow boost, because this thing will have some trouble getting this boost. With 252 Ev's +nature this thing does around 58-69% on neutral nature 0 Special Defense EV TTar with STAB Bug Buzz. That means that though TTar can't switch in, it can come in and easily kill it with any rock attack. No one has done any damage calcs, so I'm gonna take the liberty of coming up with a few. All are from a 252 EV Modest Syclant, with and without Tail Glow boosts

Focus Blast agaisnt a Calm, 252 HP, 252 Def Regice.
With Boost: 71-84%
Without Boost: 35-42%

Bug Buzz against a Bold, 148 HP, 0 Sp. Def Milotic (which can get a hella lot more defensive on the special side)
With Boost: 66-77%
Without Boost: 32-39%

Blizzard (for lack of a better move to use) aganist a Calm, 204 HP, 172 Sp. Def. Tentacruel
With boost: 37-44%
Without boost: 18-22%

And so on. Essentially, if Syclant can't use Ice/Bug/Fighting to score super effective, it isn't exactly dangerous. And at the same time the Milotic, for example, with the 120 EV's listed in the Smogon analysis does 60-69% against a neutral nature 0 EV Syclant with Surf, killing if SR is up. (When isn't it?) If Milotic goes in when Syclant hasn't Tail Glowed, it isn't doing anything. And look at Tentacruel usage statistics. It's common enough for its typing to rape Syclant.

If it Tail Glows then yes, it can do 97% maximum damage to Dusknoir. But if Dusknoir is out, then it both implies that it's out to block spinners, and that Syclant has to switch in to Dusknoir. Even assuming that Dusknoir decides to Shadow Sneak instead of Fire Punch, then that does 41-49% damage to Syclant that's switching in. If Dusknoir is out, I think I can assume that SR is up, and the next turn Shadow Sneak will kill Syclant.

And Regice, Milotic, and Tentacruel were chosen to represent the effect that not being able to hit SE matters. With Tail Glow, assuming Bug Buzz, Focus Blast and Blizzard, it can't touch one of the most popular OU bulky waters, Tentacruel. Sure Syclant can run other attacks, but it can't run all of them at once, and that's what makes it not as broken. Maybe Forretress and Ninjask won't be running over to eat Focus Blasts and Blizzards, but the special walls are easily able to wall it.

Plus, these calcs all assume max attack, with a positive nature. If you try to run a Mixed Tail Glow set, then you may not exactly have that, weakening Syclant more. It would be broken if Syclant didn't only have a 114 base, reaching 359 MAX special attack. If Syclant decides to use the potential it has to break walls using physical attacks too, then it may be competitive. Not broken.
 

KoA

Sorry, I thought anteaters were real
is an Artist
Whoever said that Weavile's can't do anything against this guy, Weavile's can carry AA.
 
AA wouldn't hit it hard. Its neutral.
Super-effective over bug, neutral to ice = Super-effective over Bug/Ice.

EDIT: I dont feel like posting twice, so...

Honestly, giving Syclant Tail Glow is going too far. Taking 50% damage from SR isn't a good enough excuse for giving it everything it could've asked for.
Oh, and for the record, Dugtrio isn't a reliable revenge killer without a choice scarf.
 
Ice doesn't resist Flying. Ice doesnt' resist anything except for Ice. Nothing that carries ice can't hit Syclant. So what, with a turn of set up a 91% accurate move can 2HKO Blissey. Let's ignore the damage it takes the two turns that Blissey will be attacking it, and ignore the fact that a ghost type can switch in.

Even then, SpecsLuke, with no set up at all, without two (or any) 4x weaknesses, without taking 50% damage on the switch in can 2HKO Blissey. If a special sweeper using special attacks to take down Blissey is broken, then let's ban Raikou, Porygon-Z (fuck, with the exact same set up time, Z can OHKO Blissey. That's twice as fast), any CM+101 Subs really, etc. Blissey is not the way to tell whether or not something is broken.

Plus, you 2HKO Bold Bliss with no Special Defense EV's. I run a Calm Bliss with a significant Special Defense ev investment, because it's better for me team. Just because it's the Standard Bliss, it isn't the only one you see. There are many Calm Blissey's out there. So even the argument that doesn't matter is flawed.

Plus, all of the calcs I've done have been for a +nature. If it wants to capitalise on its 121 Base Speed then it needs to have a speed boosting nature, lowering its attack even more.
 

DougJustDoug

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Shoddy Mod Server Update

I have successfully loaded, compiled, and executed the ShoddyBattle server code. I've made trivial changes to the code and run it in the debugger. This is very good news. It means I can now get to the real coding.

I've spent quite a bit of time familiarizing myself with the Shoddy object model, so I expect to get Syclant into the moddata database fairly quickly. Implementing Mountaineer will be a little tougher, but not too bad.

Right now, it looks like the toughest part will be loading the sprites. It appears that the sprites are pulled straight from Shoddy when the client starts. I was hoping to avoid overriding all that client stuff, and let Shoddy work like normal, except for my custom server. I'm not sure that this will be a problem or not, I haven't looked too closely at that code yet. I'll worry about it later, after I get Syclant into the server.

Still no ETA on the completion of this. But, now that I'm actually writing code, the rest is SMOP (Simple Matter Of Programming). Of course, those are famous last words in the world of software......
 

KoA

Sorry, I thought anteaters were real
is an Artist
Dude, I love you for your effort on this. :P

I wanna be one of the first few to try out Syclant.
 
DougJustDoug has been syclants best friend ever since it was created. We <3 you, XD. Great job programming. I may not know much about it but I know it is time consuming ;).
 

DougJustDoug

Knows the great enthusiasms
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Artistis a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Top CAP Contributoris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Moderator
After I get this one in, the other's will be really easy, assuming we don't get too crazy with new moves or abilities.
 
Shoddy Mod Server Update

I have successfully loaded, compiled, and executed the ShoddyBattle server code. I've made trivial changes to the code and run it in the debugger. This is very good news. It means I can now get to the real coding.

I've spent quite a bit of time familiarizing myself with the Shoddy object model, so I expect to get Syclant into the moddata database fairly quickly. Implementing Mountaineer will be a little tougher, but not too bad.

Right now, it looks like the toughest part will be loading the sprites. It appears that the sprites are pulled straight from Shoddy when the client starts. I was hoping to avoid overriding all that client stuff, and let Shoddy work like normal, except for my custom server. I'm not sure that this will be a problem or not, I haven't looked too closely at that code yet. I'll worry about it later, after I get Syclant into the server.

Still no ETA on the completion of this. But, now that I'm actually writing code, the rest is SMOP (Simple Matter Of Programming). Of course, those are famous last words in the world of software......
Gogo Doug!!!
How much longer?
I am going to be there right when its out!
 
I'll put a (?) next to Tail Glow, but people have yet to prove to me how much it's broken. Yes, it does considerable damage to a lot of pokemon, but everything has a counter. And don't forget: Syclant has paper defenses and needs a turn to set up Tail Glow. It can't actually OHKO anything, so it Glows on the switch as you bring in a counter. Once again, all this does is give Syclant another option, not make it indestructible.

Great progress on the server, Doug. I might actually play shoddy again when it's up.
 

Sunday

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The argument is cooper that after a tail glow Syclant can 1HKO Pokes that normally he would only be able to 2HKO as they switched in. Imagine it. Syclant tail Glows on the switch, then obliterates the wall you send in. You then sent in another wall, who would normally have countered Syclant unless it had to switch in on him. Well it's no longer safe! Syclant no longer has to predict it's incoming and can instead 1HKO right off the bat! Stall teams would be obliterated where they stand.
 
According to the calculations people have done, there is no common special wall that is a guaranteed OHKO except for Dusknoir. I still hold that a little prediction is the key to beating Tail Glow Syclant.
 
Honestly, a Tail Glow for Syclant is like giving Deoxys-E Nasty Plot. It gets its purpose from its speed and versatility to attack pretty much anything in the metagame, and its only offset is its inability to do enough damage to certain Pokemon. Giving it that ability to boost its one downside pretty much spells game over for any team without priority attacks or a Focus Sash.
 
I guess if this is going to have Tail Glow, i may as well come up with a set for it...

Syclant @ Life Orb
Timid
Compoundeyes
252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spd, 6 Def
Tail Glow
Blizzard
Focus Blast
Hidden Power Electric

I would intend for this to be used as a lead. HP Electric is there mainly for Tentacruel and Gyarados. After Tail Glow, Focus Blast will be able to dent Blissey enough so that Superpower wouldn't be required even if it were legal with Tail Glow.


EDIT: I still think Syclant needs some more useless moves. I just came up with a list of possible moves that seem to make sense flavour-wise that he doesn't have yet:
Fury Cutter
Ice Ball (would have to be through level-up though)
Poison Sting
Detect
Astonish
Spite
Screech
Foresight
Rage
 
Yeah, I know I need some useless moves in there. I'm just too lazy to put them in.

Giving it that ability to boost its one downside pretty much spells game over for any team without priority attacks or a Focus Sash.
What does this mean? If either of Syclant's attacks have a downside, it'd be the attack, for lack of good STAB.
 
Meh, this is like Swords Dance Chomp killing everything. Except it didn't.

At least we can test this and just remove the move and not the Pokemon. Anyways, Aldaron recently posted an amazing post in the Deoxys S analysis update. It said that when passed a SD/NP Deoxys S would rape. The point is, we are still allowing it (at least for now). Let's do the same thing with Tail Glow + Syclant (even though it was a joke originally).
 
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