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CAP 1 Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Syclant Testing

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by Sunday, Feb 20, 2008.

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  1. Sunday

    Sunday God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
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    Just incase you've had your head under a rock, Doug's Create a Pokemon Server is up and running, and can now be found in the server list. We ask that you use your Smogon nick if applicable so we can see which members have connected to the server. On that note the server has gotten some big names on it, most notable being Maniaclyarasist, Jr, and even Colin himself.

    [​IMG]
    For people who were directed here from the Welcome Message in the server, meet Syclant![​IMG]
    Syclant is the result of months of polling and discussion that the entire Smogon community was a part of. It started as a bit of fun, make our own Pokemon, and evolved into something just a little bit more. As such, we would appreciate that you respect the hard work that went into the creation of Syclant. You're welcome to join us in the Shoddy Server to help us test Syclant out - the more the merrier! But please use your common sence as to what it is acceptable to do in the server. Instructions for installing the Syclant sprite are located below.


    Now, Syclant is proving to be pretty stable but at this time we need your help to test it. We are urging everyone to log onto the Create a Pokemon server, test Syclant out, and post your thoughts! If you have any interesting logs that show either why you think Syclant is broken or why he is not we encourage you to post them here! Your thoughts help us ensure Syclant is everything he should be and more. Now, in order to get a larger test sample we need people all loging on at the same time, so now we are pushing for everyone to log onto the Create a Pokemon server this Saturday and Sunday this week so we can do some serious testing.

    It has now just about been decided that not much on Syclant is going to change. It's definatly powerful if it gets a Tail Glow or Swords Dance in, but often attempts to stat up and is hit for a KO. It's proved to be a brilliant revenge killer with Mountaineer, and definatly has it's niche in the metagame. Indirect damage is the bane of it's existence, and adds up with astromomical speed. I suspect Compound Eyes is completly obselete, as 50% from SR is incredibly debilitating on Syclant.

    Anyway, for those who need to know how to get the Syclant sprite up and working it is in the next post from the man himself!

    Click Here to Download the Syclant Sprite File
  2. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
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    Connecting to Doug's Create-A-Pokemon Server

    Here are the exact steps you need to do:

    If you have never connected to Shoddy, then go install it and connect to a server. Maybe watch a battle or something. But don't follow these steps until you've actually USED Shoddy. Otherwise, the Syclant sprites might not load.

    Download the file "NewPokemonSprites.jar" at this location:
    http://savefile.com/files/1385183

    Put the downloaded jar file in a directory you can access from a command prompt. The simplest place is "C:\" for any "technically-challenged" folks out there. I would not advise saving it to your desktop. It's very hard to get to the desktop directory from the command line.

    Open a Command Prompt window. It should be under Programs->Accessories->Command Prompt. Or you can do "Run..." from the Start menu and type "cmd". Either way, it'll open a command window.

    Go to the directory where you saved NewPokemonSprites.jar The easiest way to do that is to type "cd c:\thedirectory\youused". Substitute the directories accordingly, and don't type those words literally. For example, if you saved it in C:\, then type "cd c:\" and press enter.

    That file you downloaded is a java program. That means you have to run it with a special command. Now type "java -jar NewPokemonSprites.jar" and press enter. You should see several messages saying it stored a bunch of Syclant sprites. If not, then something went wrong.

    OK, now you have Syclant sprites in the right place. I'm really hoping to avoid those steps in the future. I'm currently working on an .EXE that will be much simpler to run. But, right now, you have to work with the jar file.

    Now you can connect to my server. Start the Shoddy Battle client. You should see "Doug's Create-A-Pokemon Server" in the list. If for some reason you don't see it, press the "Advanced" button, and use this address and port:

    address 98.195.195.196
    port 8888

    From there, you should see a welcome screen to register and login. Please use your Smogon name for this server.

    IMPORTANT -- You might not be able to use existing teams. Most people have had to make new teams.

    Syclant is pokemon #499, at the very bottom after Arceus. Have fun.
  3. Sunday

    Sunday God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
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    Here's the analysis for those who want to see some Syclant theorymon. Feel free to suggest changes to the analysis based on your experiences battling with Syclant but I ask that if you directly edit the analysis please bold your changes so I can easily critique them and append the changes onto this copy.
  4. Sunday

    Sunday God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
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    And here's all the info on Syclant in general:
    We still need some trivial info such as height, weight, and pre-evo information. Please inform me if those have already been designed and I'll add them.
    pre-evo name is syclar

    pre-evo stats are
    35/58/35/57/32/60

    pre-evo weight is between 100 and 130. or it is 115.
  5. The Smell

    The Smell

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    I'll be testing him! You can count on me!

    ~Smell
  6. MegaMewtwo

    MegaMewtwo

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    There's some awkwardness with the dex entries, they might need to be edited a little.
    Redundant. Icicle size is relative to age, we don't need it said twice in the same sentence.
    So they live alone, but have colonies? Does not compute.

    I also noticed something scary. If Syclant was real, imagine how cheap it could be in the hands of Battle Tower AI. DT a bit then let rip with Compoundeyes + Wide Lens Sheer Cold, which coming from the hax of the Tower will hardly ever miss. Yikes. And let's also consider Silver Wind, with hax giving ridiculous amounts of stat boosts.

    Just curious, what would a Syclant's stats look like when running the sets given in the analysis?
  7. merubin

    merubin

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    All:
    HP 281
    Def 158 (or 159 with the suggested 4 EVs in the latter two sets)
    SpDef 164 (147 -nature)
    Speed 375 (+nature) (341 normal)

    Mix:
    Atk 318
    SAtk 278 (305 +n)

    Swords:
    Atk 331 (364 +n)
    SAtk 264 (237 -n)

    Specs:
    Atk 268 (241 -n)
    SAtk 327 (359 +n)


    For comparison, max EVd:
    Salamence Atk 369 (405 +n)
    P-Z/Alakazam SAtk 369 (405 +n)
    Deoxys-E Spe 459 (504 +n)
    Crobat Spe 359 (394 +n)
    Weavile Spe 349 (383 +n)
    Dugtrio Spe 339 (372 +n)
    Starmie et al Spe 329 (361 +n)
  8. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Lord Sunday what about bulky waters as counters?

    i realy think the Tail Glow and Mixed sets need diferent analysis. they play compleatly diferently, have diferent ev spreads, diferent moves.
    Pure tail Glow (without BB/Superpower) is walled by blissey, but takes many other things very well. Compoundeyes is a option on the pure tail glow set as well it helps with FB and Blizzard, but rapid spin support is needed.

    this is the set:

    move 1: Tail Glow
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Electric/Fight/Ground?
    move 4: Blizzard / Ice Beam
    item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
    ability: Compound Eyes / Mountineer
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 Satk / 4 Defense / 252 Speed

    After a tail glow almost nothing can wall you, even the best sp. walls will be fall to repeted boosted Focus Blasts. Bug Buzz is for STAB, Blizzard will KO most pokemon that dont resist it after a Tail Glow, but Ice Beam can work if you dont have hail and want to run Mountineer. If you use Compundeyes Focus blast is your best option, but with Mountineer Hidden Power is better:
    Fighting: lets you do something to Blissey and will hurt Heatran.
    Electric: is for bulky waters like Suicune and Tentacruel.
    Ground: will slaughter Heatran and KO Tenta.

    Life Orb is for high rish-hight reward, but without Mountineer or heavy rapid spin support the damage will add up quickly, and you will find it hard to get a Tail Glow up.

    Focus Sash lets you get a free TG up, but without LO's boost you will find it hard to KO some bulky oponents.

    feel free to edit the comments


    mixant should look something like this:

    [SET]
    name: Mixant
    move 1: Ice Beam
    move 2: Bug buzz / X-Sicssor
    move 3: Brick Break / Superpower
    move 4: Substitute / Earth power / More options? Taunt?
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Mountaineer
    nature: Naive / Rash
    evs: 200 Atk/ 56 Satk / 252 Spd or 4 Defence/252 sp. attack/252 speed (if it can 2ko bliss with Superpower)

    Syclant has the ability to tear through many of the most common walls in D/P. Ice is a great STAB in the OU Metagame which is the only one you will see Syclant playing in. Brick Break deals with Blissey and will 2HKO 90% of the time. Bug buzz provides a strong STAB that deals with many opponents. Substitute can be used if you do not want to risk mispredicting, which will often force Syclant to switch out. It is also useful to absorb Thunder Waves from Blissey and Cresselia.

    If you do use Substitute than Superpower becomes an option over Brick Break as it can 2HKO Blissey with less EVs, but it does not allow for repeated hits.

    these comments will need some slight ajustment.
  9. Amelia

    Amelia

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    What happens when you use Grass Knot/Low kick on it? It doesn't have a weight yet.
  10. Drab Emordnilap

    Drab Emordnilap

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    So, explain Mountaineer to me? I understand that it blocks Stealth Rock, but does it also make him take no damage if, say, he switches into a Stone Edge?
  11. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    sakura: i dont know what DJD programed in but the agreed weight was between 100 and 130. or it was 115.

    RTF: it blocks any rock damage as it switches in. includeing stone edge.

    lord sunday add this stuff

    pre-evo name is syclar

    pre-evo stats are
    35/58/35/57/32/60

    weight is between 100 and 130. or it is 115.

    KoA is working on the pre-evo sprite.
  12. Slice n Dice

    Slice n Dice

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    yes, syclant is cool. In my opinion Superpower is just pushing it...

    @eric Name a bulky water that can safely switch in.
  13. andersatan

    andersatan

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    Would a choice band varient of Syclant be a viable option?
  14. Ouro

    Ouro

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    From the looks of it Mountaineer SpecAnt will be the best type to use. Focus Blast / Earth Power / Bug Buzz / Ice Beam good fucking game. Ill run some damage calculations later to see if its worth running HP Electric to hit Waters.
  15. merubin

    merubin

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    Hm... base 116 attack, decent coverage, massive speed, immunity to Stealth Rock...
  16. Cooper

    Cooper
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    Right. Think of it as meaning that any damage he would take from a Rock attack upon switching in is null. However, benefits for the user, such as Rock Polish, still take effect. Someone should test this though, unless Doug feels certain that this will happen. I would hate for Mountaineer to kill off Rampardos....

    On a different topic, I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but I think we need to do some extensive testing on Syclant's tier status. With it's movepool it's easy to say that Ant should be OU, but in all of my battles against the bug, it has done nothing but fail. Note that this has nothing to do with my mad prediction skills. Syclant practically NEEDS a stat boost to kill any of it's many counters (barring Heatran with Earth power), and in the turn it takes to do that, you can either switch to a new counter or take a massive chunk out of Ant's HP. Any priority move, most notably Extremespeed, spells death. If it doesn't go down to UU, at this point I feel that BL is the highest it should be able to go.
  17. latinoheat

    latinoheat
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    tail glow is broken and why are you wasting time installing pre -evos are we not meant to be getting rid of all the useless prevos to make room for new pokemon.
  18. tennisace

    tennisace
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    There is something that everyone should know about mountaineer. If your Pokemon explodes and your opponent brings out Syclant, MOUNTAINEER WILL NOT KICK IN. It's very circumstantial, but use this to your advantage.

    EDIT: @ latinoheat- If we're sending this to Nintendo, we need to have all of the information complete so it doesn't look like we spent three days on this. I don't think Doug is going to install the pre-evo on his shoddy server, what would we use it for?
  19. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    suicune can switch in on an ice attack or a stat up move and scare it out. i expect milotic could do the same.

    yes... but SD FS syclant is mostly better. i think it should be added though.

    and cooper i think it will be mid-low OU, mabe high. i doubt it will drop to BL and UU is out of the question. it can hit its counters hard on the switch with correct prediction so a stat boost is not 100% needed.

    can you be positive for once? tail glow is in testing, it may be removed. have you used a tail glow syclant? how many times? i have had about 15 battles and my team uses a tail glow syclant, from what i have seen its powerful but not broken.
    the pre-evo is for flavor, it may or may not be progamed in.
  20. Jenigmat

    Jenigmat

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    I've been trying to push this for a while. Tail Glow is not broken on Syclant. It can do a lot of damage after a Tail Glow, but it's hard as fuck to get a Tail Glow in. Syclant's defenses keep it not broken.
  21. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
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    Actually I didn't code any mass at all. If you use Gross Knot/Low Kick on Syclant it will calc against a mass of 0. Whoops. I'll fix that tomorrow. It will take a little while since masses are stored in a special part of Shoddy. Thanks for pointing it out to me Eric.

    Here's the logic for Mountaineer:

    IF the Mountaineer poke (generally Syclant, but could be Skill Swapped, Traced, etc) is switched in and on its first turn (First turn lead doesn't apply)

    IF it is facing an opponent that has been on the field for more than one turn (simultaneous switching does not apply)

    IF it is a Rock move by the opponent

    IF it is considered to be an "Attack" (Rock Polish isn't)

    THEN the accuracy of the opponents move is set to 0%, which means it will miss for sure on that turn only. Then I display a cute message about Syclant being a Mountaineer.

    Stealth Rock is a special effect that is specifically coded to do nothing to pokemon with the Mountaineer ability.

    I'd really love to see some of the complex cases tested here. Stuff like "If I Trace Mountaineer when I switch in, will I avoid SR damage when I switch in?"

    I've been really disappointed with Syclant. Last night, I assumed Syclant could help out against Garchomp and it really can't. I had a random team of OU standards thrown together with Syclant. Really no team planning, but not a horrible squad. In quickly eyeballing my hastily-assembled team, I figured Syclant was part of my Garchomp defense, with some help from an Ice Punching defensive Dusknoir. Boy, was I wrong. I misplayed the whole match horribly (I think Sunday got a big laugh on the sidelines, watching me go down like a little bitch in that battle) and got 6-0'd by a double-status Tangrowth and Yache SDChomp. My ass-whipping was not Syclant's fault by any means, but it did make me consider, "What if?" Afterwards I looked at the battle and realized that even if I played it "right" Syclant is very little help against Garchomp, and not just the Yache SD version.

    Many Garchomps will rip Syclant to shreds in realistic battle situations. On paper, Syclant looks OK facing Chomp straight up. But, in reality it can't come in on anything without taking loads of damage. Once it's in, it can have speed and/or power issues against many forms of Chomp. You can't afford to sit around and scout on Chomp, since it might be SDChomp -- in which case, after you're done scouting, it's gg. Syclant isn't durable enough to come in blind and face the consequences. I'm gonna have to use some more of the standard bulky Chomp "tools" (there is no real counter) instead of Syclant. In which case, Syclant just became much less useful to my team.

    What do I need this pokemon for? What does it do well against? Of those things it can beat, were they already beatable by lots of other things? I think the answer may be, Syclant is an inferior option for many things it is good at. If so, that is the very definition of BL. That would be a shame for a pokemon that was roundly criticized as being "broken".

    But, that's what the testing is for. I'm really looking forward to other's results. I'm hoping some of you better battlers will discover Syclant's true calling in OU play.

    I have no intention of implementing pre-evo's on a competitive battle server. Total waste of time.
  22. Slice n Dice

    Slice n Dice

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    Like I have said in the past, I commend you for you're work on Syclant. Take off Tail Glow and/or Superpower so it won't be over the top broken.
  23. Yagami Light

    Yagami Light

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    Great pokemon, just kindly bump Tail Glow off of the learn list.
  24. jujuomi

    jujuomi

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    Can you please change the stats, please? Or at least 35/70/23/70/32/65
  25. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper

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    i have said this before.

    Tailglow does not make this guy broken in the least. (ok maybe a little)

    A heatproof or levitate zong walls the shit out of, and easily kills.

    A max hp, and some special defense will dispatch the ant easy. The only reason i reccomend heatproof is that, earthpower and tail glow are illegal and hp fire is useable.

    Bullet punch gross can easily take the thing out aswell. Switch in on an easy superpower or ice beam or tail glow and bullet punch away.

    easy.



    ditching superpower is a possibility. I beleive that this thing does acutally help against garchomp it only takes about 50% from EQ and quickly owns it wiht a CS ice beam, or blizzard.
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