Snivy QC 4/4 GP 2/2

[Tricking]

[OVERVIEW]
Snivy is the only Pokemon in the tier that has access to Contrary, which grants it a Special Attack boost when using Leaf Storm. This characteristic makes Snivy the best offensive Grass-type, although its special movepool is otherwise very limited. Furthermore, Snivy's decent 17 Speed and Contrary allow it to be one of the best Sticky Web counters in the tier. It has decent bulk if running Eviolite, which somewhat makes up for its bad defensive typing. Snivy also has access to Glare, which helps it wallbreak and paralyze faster threats that resist Leaf Storm.

[SET]
name: Wallbreaker
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Glare / Knock Off
move 3: Synthesis
move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Flying / Hidden Power Fire
item: Eviolite
ability: Contrary
nature: Timid
evs: 240 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
==========
Leaf Storm is a powerful STAB move that gives Snivy a +2 Special Attack boost thanks to its ability Contrary. Glare is a good option to inflict paralysis when you think a counter is about to be switched in. Knock Off removes the foe's item and might help Snivy wallbreak by removing Berry Juice from Sturdy users; this can contribute to a late-game sweep. Synthesis provides reliable recovery. Hidden Power Ground hits Fire-types, which Snivy can't deal with otherwise, while Hidden Power Ice allows it to hit Grass- and Flying-types. Hidden Power Flying helps deal with Grass-types as well and hits some Pokemon that resist Grass, such as Croagunk and Larvesta. Hidden Power Fire helps deal with other Grass- and Steel-types.

Set Details
==========
Contrary allows Snivy to reverse stat changes. In particular, when Snivy uses Leaf Storm, instead of halving its Special Attack, it gets a +2 boost. 240 Special Attack EVs optimize Snivy's Special Attack stat, and 252 Speed EVs along with a Timid nature are used to reach 17 Speed. Eviolite gives Snivy decent bulk. If using Hidden Power Fire, use the following EV spread: 76 HP / 236 SpA / 176 Spe.

Usage Tips
=========
Snivy can deal big amounts of damage thanks to Leaf Storm and the boost it gets from Contrary. Knock Off and the chosen Hidden Power are the best ways to weaken a counter or a strong check to Grass-type moves on the switch. Glare can provide speed control. Because of Eviolite, Snivy can pivot into Ground- or Water-types, such as Drilbur and Staryu, easily. Snivy also works as a switch-in to Defog, as Defog increases Snivy's evasion because of Contrary.

Team Options
============
Diglett is one of the best teammates for Snivy because if you predict the switch correctly, you can trap and revenge kill almost all of non-Hidden Power Ground Snivy's counters. Gothita can help against Ferroseed and Foongus. Furthermore, Snivy needs a switch-in to Fire-type moves such as Ponyta or Houndour. Entry hazard setters are useful to Snivy because entry hazards can heavily weaken the opponent's team. Archen and Chinchou are also good options for partners because they can check Flying-types such as Fletchling and Archen; on this note, Ponyta could be useful due to its ability to potentially burn foes.

[SET]
name: Sub + Berry Juice
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Glare / Knock Off
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Flying
item: Berry Juice
ability: Contrary
nature: Timid
evs: 240 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========
Leaf Storm gives Snivy a +2 Special Attack boost thanks to Contrary when used. Glare paralyzes the target and is useful to catch faster Pokemon or solid checks such as Ponyta and Larvesta on the switch in. Knock Off can be used to remove items and can weaken bulky Pokemon such as Vullaby and Pumpkaboo by removing their Eviolite. Substitute blocks status moves such as Thunder Wave, which would prevent Snivy from sweeping late-game. It can also ease predictions, as you can use it to avoid some annoying 50/50 situations such as Sucker Punch scenarios or double switches. Hidden Power Ground hits Fire-types, which Snivy cannot deal with otherwise, while Hidden Power Ice allows it to hit Grass- and Flying-types. Hidden Power Flying helps deal with Grass-types and hits some Grass-resistant foes such as Croagunk and Larvesta super effectively. Hidden Power Fire can be used to get rid of Steel- and Grass-types, but it forces you to use run 16 Speed on Snivy.

Set Details
==========
Snivy's ability, Contrary, reverses stat changes, meaning that Leaf Storm gives a +2 boost to Snivy's Special Attack rather than halving it. 240 Special Attack EVs optimize Snivy's attacking stat, and 252 Speed EVs along with a Timid nature are used to reach 17 Speed. Berry Juice provides useful recovery and can be activated by using Substitute. If you are using Hidden Power Fire, and therefore 16 Speed Snivy, use the following EV spread: 76 HP / 236 SpA / 176 Spe.

Usage Tips
==========
Leaf Storm deals a lot of damage and provides a Contrary boost, and Substitute can be used against Pokemon with Thunder Wave or other status moves and also can be used to recover Snivy's HP thanks to Berry Juice. You can also use it to ease predictions and use Knock Off or Glare afterwards. Snivy is able to pivot if switched into bulky Water-types, such as Chinchou, Slowpoke, and Tirtouga. Without Eviolite, however, it can't switch into many things, so it's better to use it as a revenge killer.

Team Options
==========
Snivy appreciates switch-ins to Fire-types, such as Ponyta and Staryu, and to Flying-types, such as Tirtouga, Chinchou, and Archen. Gothita or Diglett is able to trap and KO Snivy's most common counters depending on Snivy's coverage, as Diglett can trap and revenge KO almost all of Snivy's counters if Snivy lacks Hidden Power Ground, whereas Gothita can help against Ferroseed and Foongus. Entry hazard setters can be very helpful because Snivy appreciates the residual damage on the opposing team.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
============
Snivy can run a Choice Scarf, but it loses out on coverage, and Snivy can rarely sweep with only Leaf Storm. Taunt helps against status moves, but it is outclassed by Substitute. You can use a set with Reflect and Light Screen in order to ease a teammate's sweep. Hidden Power Fire can be a nice option, as it allows Snivy to deal with Steel- and Grass-types at the same time, while Hidden Power Rock can help Snivy hit Larvesta super effectively without losing coverage on important targets such as Ponyta. In order to use these moves, however, Snivy loses 1 point in Speed due to IVs; unfortunately, the extra point in Speed is crucial to outspeed 16 Speed Pokemon and tie with Archen, Mienfoo, and Drilbur. Lastly, Aromatherapy can heal teammates and can be useful against bulky teams.

Checks and Counters
==============
**Pokemon that Resist Grass**: LC is full of Grass-resistant Pokemon, especially Larvesta and Foongus. Snivy can't deal with them at the same time with only one type of Hidden Power.

**Ponyta and Larvesta**: Ponyta and Larvesta force Snivy out, and they take every attack well except for a boosted Hidden Power Rock.

**Flying-types**: Bulky Flying-types such as Vullaby are good checks if Snivy is not running Hidden Power Ice, and sweepers such as Fletchling, Doduo, and Taillow are strong revenge killers.

**Grass-types**: Grass-types such as Ferroseed, Foongus, Pumpkaboo, and Cottonee resist every attack Snivy has except for Hidden Power Fire or Flying.

**Steel-types**: Steel-types resist every one of Snivy's attacks if it isn't running Hidden Power Ground. Bronzor is probably the best counter thanks to its longevity with Recycle and access to Levitate.

**Poison-types**: Poison-types such as Stunky and Croagunk are good counters if Snivy isn't running Hidden Power Ground.

**Faster Pokemon**: Fast Pokemon such as Gastly and Abra can easily revenge kill Snivy, even if they can't switch into a boosted attack.

 

[Kavatika]

Umm, I'm pretty sure this is supposed to be a complete revamp and not an additional set. Is this what you meant for it to be Mambo?

 

[doomsday doink]

The current set isn't necessarily bad, but it could probably be moved to OO. In that case, then yes this would be a complete revamp. I'd like to get another QC member's opinion on whether or not the current set should remain (with the updated ability), but I'm leaning more towards completely revamping this.

 

[Rowan]

complete revamp

 

[Tricking]

okay then, I'll do that asap

 

[Kavatika]

Alright. With that in mind, I think the two sets that should be implemented would be a SubBJ set and a bulkier Eviolite set akin to the one blarajan used in LCPL. Thoughts?

 

[kingmidas]

For the subbj set it should be imo
Sub Berry Juice
########
name: Wallbreaker
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Glare / Knock Off
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
ability: Contrary
item: Berry Juice
evs: 240 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Blara's set was eviolite synthesis idk if he ran bulk but;
Wallbreaker
########
name: Wallbreaker
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Knock Off / Glare
move 3: Synthesis / Giga Drain
move 4: Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
ability: Contrary
item: Eviolite
evs: 240 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

as you can see I don't like ice. Not qc but just my opinion.

 

[blarajan]

IMHO move Fire / Fighting to OO. Snivy maintaining 17 Speed is way too important. I think the Hidden Power options should just be Ground/Ice. I like both sets that kingmidas proposed, the second one is mine and should have Glare as the first slash as that is loads better than Knock Off. Include those + an all purpose Scarf set and I think this is good to go, mine as first set, scarf as second, and subjuice as third.

 

[Aaron's Aron]

Thank you for doing this for me Tricking. I'm sorry I couldn't do it and that it had to be dumped onto you. I appreciate you stepping up and doing a difficult Pokemon for me. :)

 

[blarajan]

Please implement my changes, then.

 

[Tricking]

Please implement my changes, then.

done, sorry for the delay!

 

[Kavatika]

you still need to add the overview

 

[Tricking]

you still need to add the overview

done

 

[Celestavian]

Overview:

Also mention Glare here since that's one of Snivy's best moves, capable of paralyzing anything with 100% accuracy except Electric-types.

Other Options:

Mention Aromatherapy since it is the fastest user of it in LC but otherwise it's not that great.

When you cover the Hidden Powers there, make sure you mention they all prevent Snivy from reaching 17 Speed which is crucial for outspeeding Pawniard and tying Mienfoo and Drilbur.

QC 1/4

 

[Tricking]

Overview:

Also mention Glare here since that's one of Snivy's best moves, capable of paralyzing anything with 100% accuracy except Electric-types.

Other Options:

Mention Aromatherapy since it is the fastest user of it in LC but otherwise it's not that great.

When you cover the Hidden Powers there, make sure you mention they all prevent Snivy from reaching 17 Speed which is crucial for outspeeding Pawniard and tying Mienfoo and Drilbur.

QC 1/4

Implemented and thanks!

 

[Rowan]

overview
mention that it's the best offensive grass type. many other grass types lack some sort of offensive presence.
contrary means it's one of the best sticky web counters in the game

set 1
is giga drain actually worth it, i'm not sure. I feel the longevity provided by synthesis is better and allows it to pivot much more easily but I haven't tested giga drai so idk. i still think synthesis should be the first slash.

usage tips - cosof eviolite, snivy can pivot really well into ground or water types, such as drilbur and staryu.

team options
gothita also helps against foongus which is great
gothita needs fire type switchins, and grass type switchins as taem mates

set 2

not sure about this. another hidden power could be run and just give snivy 16 speed, which seems viable to me, as 24 or 25 speed doens't matter a whole lot. hidden power fire could probably be slashed. just note a different ev spread in set comments.

on team options for all sets just mention fire/grass/flying switchins as snivy needs them

checks and counters could be expanded on.

flying types in general (not just fletch). if snivy is running hp ground

grass types: ferroseed, foongus, cottonee in particular if it is running hp ground

steel types. if it is running hp ice

fire types. if it is running hp ice

do this then qc 2/4. sorry this was forgotten by qc

 

[Tricking]

overview
mention that it's the best offensive grass type. many other grass types lack some sort of offensive presence.
contrary means it's one of the best sticky web counters in the game

set 1
is giga drain actually worth it, i'm not sure. I feel the longevity provided by synthesis is better and allows it to pivot much more easily but I haven't tested giga drai so idk. i still think synthesis should be the first slash.

usage tips - cosof eviolite, snivy can pivot really well into ground or water types, such as drilbur and staryu.

team options
gothita also helps against foongus which is great
gothita needs fire type switchins, and grass type switchins as taem mates

set 2

not sure about this. another hidden power could be run and just give snivy 16 speed, which seems viable to me, as 24 or 25 speed doens't matter a whole lot. hidden power fire could probably be slashed. just note a different ev spread in set comments.

on team options for all sets just mention fire/grass/flying switchins as snivy needs them

checks and counters could be expanded on.

flying types in general (not just fletch). if snivy is running hp ground

grass types: ferroseed, foongus, cottonee in particular if it is running hp ground

steel types. if it is running hp ice

fire types. if it is running hp ice

do this then qc 2/4. sorry this was forgotten by qc

done

 

[Berks]

Overview
-----------
17 isn't its base Speed, it's a good speed tier, i.e. Decent 17 Speed or Access to the good 17 speed tier
Just be sure to reeeeeally hype contrary leaf storm when you write this up

[Wallbreaker]
Moves
--------
Glare is slashed before Knock Off and should thus be mentioned before Knock Off
Synthesis is mandatory on Evio Snivy so remove the Giga Drain slash
I personally feel HP Flying is superior to HP Ground as is can at least hit Flying types. The types it then cannot hit are easily removed by Diglett, so I believe it should be Ice / Flying with Ground given a mention elsewhere. The fourth checker may disagree with this but put it in for now

Set Details
-------------
You have to talk about Eviolite and Contrary, even if it's just really obvious stuff

Usage Tips
-------------
Remove the Giga Drain mention
Talk about Glare where you talk about Knock Off, they're both good for crippling junk and are slashed with each other

Team Options
----------------
Mention other Ground types, as if you run Ice or Flying Steel-types wall you and diglett isn't the only option there
Put a bigger emphasis on bird counters, Ponyta is pretty nice here too cause it can burn them while also beating steels

[Choice Scarf]
---------------
you've seen the convo, move this to OO and get rid of the rest of the stuff about it

[Sub + Berry Juice]
Moves
--------
Again from experience, remove the HP Fire slash, order it Ice / Flying imo, same as above
Talk about how substitute eases prediction

Set Details
-------------
Remove the HP Fire mention

Usage Tips
-------------
You also should use substitute when you predict a switch, so you can safely glare/ko the switchin
That last sentence should be in team options

Team Options
----------------
Add that last sentence from above
Pursuit trappers aren't that great here, keep talking about diglett/goth tho
Add all the stuff from the above set team options too

Other Options
----------------
IMO add HP Ground here, but separate from the other HPs
Since this is a complete revamp, you should add the existing analysis moveset to this spot

Checks & Counters
----------------------
the top one should be ** Grass Resists** and should talk about how you can't beat all of them with just one HP. Special mention here to 4x resists like Foongus and Larv
Change **Ponyta and Larv** to **Fire Types* and move the stuff from the **Steel/Fire** sections
Change **Fletch and Flying-types** to just **Flying-types** and give super special mention to Fletch. Stuff like Taillow and Doduo are also faster and super threatening
In the **grass-types** section talk about how a lot of the good ones like Ferro and Foong are also 4x grass resists
Change **Steel-types and Fire types** to just **Steel-types** then talk about HP Ground or good Ground-type teammates.
Change the last one to just **Faster Pokemon** and give special mention to Abra and Gastly for Sash / SE STAB respectively, as you'll talk about doduo above

w2g mate n_n

QC 3/4

Oh and also this isn't qc persay but you should remove the [Contrary] from the thread title cause this is a complete revamp.

Ignore all the stuff about HP Ground rn

 

[Rowan]

disagree H&MBerkeley you can't just run diglett every team and therefore not run ground. ground is an important move to hit steels and fires types with, that should be slashed.
flying doesn't give masses of benefit over ice does it, except hitting larvesta and croagunk for SE damage...

 

[Berks]

disagree H&MBerkeley you can't just run diglett every team and therefore not run ground. ground is an important move to hit steels and fires types with, that should be slashed.
flying doesn't give masses of benefit over ice does it, except hitting larvesta and croagunk for SE damage...

Rowan, I'm really sorry I didn't take a look at it like this earlier, that's lazy of me.

Grass/Flying coverage is only resisted by Steel-types. Grass/Ice coverage is resisted by Steel and Fire Types. Grass/Ground coverage misses out on Flying, Grass, and Bug types (but I guess the only really notable one of those is Larv so that's moot.)

In terms of super effective coverage, Ground covers the Fire, Poison, and Steel types that Grass cannot. Ice covers the Grass and Flying types that Grass misses. Flying then covers the Grass and Bug types Grass cannot.

Although I suppose the question is this then: what does HP Ice offer over Flying? As far as I can tell, the only time HP Ice would be beneficial over either Ground or Flying is against Vullaby, as other Flying-types are either faster than Snivy and should already be dead, or are too frail to live two Leaf Storms after the boost. Getting rid of HP Ground was a bad idea, but what about Ice?

 

[Tricking]

3/4 written up, ready for the 4th check.

 

[Berks]

I just wanna put this convo between me and sparktrain here for a little bit before some check stuff, I've changed my mind on some stuff and other junk but it's late soooo

spark knows better than i

[23:13] sparktrain: who all has qced snivy so far
[23:13] H&MBerkeley: idk but i'm one of them
[23:13] sparktrain: coz ill throw in my two cents in thread
[23:13] sparktrain: ok
[23:13] sparktrain: ill post later
[23:13] H&MBerkeley: and i think we might need more than four
[23:13] sparktrain: i just want fire out of oo
[23:13] sparktrain: coz i like it
[23:13] H&MBerkeley: with how odd the whole thing has been
[23:13] H&MBerkeley: i've also changed some opinions
[23:14] sparktrain: and having 3 hps in the analysis but not the most popular hidden power
[23:14] sparktrain: makes 0 sense to me
[23:14] H&MBerkeley: i personally think that on evio
[23:14] H&MBerkeley: it should be ground / flying / fire
[23:14] H&MBerkeley: and on bj it should maintain 17 speed
[23:14] H&MBerkeley: with just ground / fly
[23:14] sparktrain: i think that'd be fine
[23:15] sparktrain: and tbh 17 speed on evio is ok as primary spread if need be
[23:15] sparktrain: as long as alternate spread gets a strong mention
[23:15] sparktrain: in set details
[23:15] H&MBerkeley: i've been playing a while with evio
[23:15] H&MBerkeley: i personally don't think it needs 17
[23:15] sparktrain: i agree
[23:16] H&MBerkeley: it doesn't need to outspeed pawn as much
[23:16] H&MBerkeley: as the other one does
[23:16] sparktrain: yea
[23:16] sparktrain: i'm not awake enough to make a coherent post rn
[23:17] sparktrain: but 16 speed evio w ground/flying/fire
[23:17] sparktrain: and bj ground/flying
[23:17] sparktrain: ice as oo
[23:17] sparktrain: sounds fine
[23:17] H&MBerkeley: along with rock
[23:17] H&MBerkeley: rock over ice imo
[23:17] sparktrain: and rock yea
[23:17] sparktrain: ok
[23:18] H&MBerkeley: i like that a lot
[23:18] sparktrain: rock is basically larv right
[23:18] sparktrain: most of the other stuff hates glare/ground anyway
[23:18] H&MBerkeley: and fire / flying in general
[23:18] H&MBerkeley: flying is important
[23:18] sparktrain: yea
[23:18] H&MBerkeley: and does not fear ground
[23:18] sparktrain: ok
[23:18] sparktrain: alright i'm in agreement
[23:19] H&MBerkeley: i'm just gonna cp this log atm
[23:19] H&MBerkeley: if that's cool
[23:19] H&MBerkeley: and maybe write more later??
[23:19] sparktrain: ok
[23:19] H&MBerkeley: heaven bless tricking though
[23:20] H&MBerkeley: for having to do this one
[23:20] sparktrain: yea
[23:20] sparktrain: i just want ppl to stop seeing that dual screen snivy set onsite asap lol

 

[Tricking]

I just wanna put this convo between me and sparktrain here for a little bit before some check stuff, I've changed my mind on some stuff and other junk but it's late soooo

spark knows better than i

[23:13] sparktrain: who all has qced snivy so far
[23:13] H&MBerkeley: idk but i'm one of them
[23:13] sparktrain: coz ill throw in my two cents in thread
[23:13] sparktrain: ok
[23:13] sparktrain: ill post later
[23:13] H&MBerkeley: and i think we might need more than four
[23:13] sparktrain: i just want fire out of oo
[23:13] sparktrain: coz i like it
[23:13] H&MBerkeley: with how odd the whole thing has been
[23:13] H&MBerkeley: i've also changed some opinions
[23:14] sparktrain: and having 3 hps in the analysis but not the most popular hidden power
[23:14] sparktrain: makes 0 sense to me
[23:14] H&MBerkeley: i personally think that on evio
[23:14] H&MBerkeley: it should be ground / flying / fire
[23:14] H&MBerkeley: and on bj it should maintain 17 speed
[23:14] H&MBerkeley: with just ground / fly
[23:14] sparktrain: i think that'd be fine
[23:15] sparktrain: and tbh 17 speed on evio is ok as primary spread if need be
[23:15] sparktrain: as long as alternate spread gets a strong mention
[23:15] sparktrain: in set details
[23:15] H&MBerkeley: i've been playing a while with evio
[23:15] H&MBerkeley: i personally don't think it needs 17
[23:15] sparktrain: i agree
[23:16] H&MBerkeley: it doesn't need to outspeed pawn as much
[23:16] H&MBerkeley: as the other one does
[23:16] sparktrain: yea
[23:16] sparktrain: i'm not awake enough to make a coherent post rn
[23:17] sparktrain: but 16 speed evio w ground/flying/fire
[23:17] sparktrain: and bj ground/flying
[23:17] sparktrain: ice as oo
[23:17] sparktrain: sounds fine
[23:17] H&MBerkeley: along with rock
[23:17] H&MBerkeley: rock over ice imo
[23:17] sparktrain: and rock yea
[23:17] sparktrain: ok
[23:18] H&MBerkeley: i like that a lot
[23:18] sparktrain: rock is basically larv right
[23:18] sparktrain: most of the other stuff hates glare/ground anyway
[23:18] H&MBerkeley: and fire / flying in general
[23:18] H&MBerkeley: flying is important
[23:18] sparktrain: yea
[23:18] H&MBerkeley: and does not fear ground
[23:18] sparktrain: ok
[23:18] sparktrain: alright i'm in agreement
[23:19] H&MBerkeley: i'm just gonna cp this log atm
[23:19] H&MBerkeley: if that's cool
[23:19] H&MBerkeley: and maybe write more later??
[23:19] sparktrain: ok
[23:19] H&MBerkeley: heaven bless tricking though
[23:20] H&MBerkeley: for having to do this one
[23:20] sparktrain: yea
[23:20] sparktrain: i just want ppl to stop seeing that dual screen snivy set onsite asap lol

I've been using almost only 17 Speed Snivy and I think it's mandatory. By the way, it won't be a problem changing it, just be sure to agree upon the content of the 4th check with the other QC members as well; it's normal to have different opinions, as the best hp for Snivy depends on the rest of the team. However, as we can't make like 5/6 slashes for the hp, just tell me what to do. We could maybe add a 16 speed set and remove fire/rock from the oo. Just let me know, guys.

 

[Rowan]

why would ice go to OO when it's the best option for hitting vullaby and any other flying types. it's probably the best option when you pair snivy with diglett, because the only things that dig doesn't help with are grasses+flyers. I use snivy quite a lot and ice is my no1 most used hidden power.

 

[Rowan]

okay,

since this is being ignored and like snivy really needs an update lol, this is my executive decision that i think makes everyone happy

evio - have hp ground / hp flying / hp fire - keep the 17 speed spread
in the moves section, heavily mention hp ice is good and is the best hp when paired with diglett
in the set details mention the hp fire spread

bj
keep the slashes as is
mention hp fire in moves as an alternate option but it misses out on speed, and mention the alternate spread in set details.