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Snorlax (Analysis) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Jukain, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    [Overview]

    <p>Snorlax's main use in OU is to stop common sun sweepers, such as Volcarona. Thick Fat and great special bulk allow Snorlax to deal with numerous special attackers. Snorlax is unique in being able to take hits well while still being able to hit quite hard. Snorlax can also Pursuit trap, which is always useful. It must be understood, however, that none of this equates to Snorlax being an amazing Pokemon; it simply has a niche. While, in previous generations, fewer Pokemon could hit it hard, this generation shifted the metagame toward a more offensive one filled with threatening Fighting-types. The current metagame is too fast-paced for the once god-like CurseLax to achieve much of anything, and the prevalence of rain allows any Pokemon with a powerful Water STAB to rip Snorlax apart. Common sweepers, such as Dragonite, Latias, and Keldeo, can exploit Snorlax's abysmal Speed. Despite these disadvantages, Snorlax can do one thing well, and that is check sun teams, which is truly a rare ability.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Return / Double-Edge
    move 2: Pursuit
    move 3: Fire Punch
    move 4: Superpower / Wild Charge
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The main goal of this set is to function as what one might call a "utility check." With Choice Band-boosted attacks and high special bulk, Snorlax can combat sun teams effectively, boasting the ability to defeat Xatu, Volcarona, Venusaur, and Dugtrio&mdash;a common sun team core. With its great special bulk, Snorlax can also check Pokemon such as Latios and Latias that rely on special attacks to deal damage.</p>

    <p>Pursuit is perhaps the crux of the set. Snorlax has excellent match-ups versus numerous Pursuit-weak Pokemon such as Gengar, Latios, Starmie, and Celebi; none of these Pokemon can do much of anything to Snorlax, while Snorlax can easily switch in and OHKO them. Pursuit also helps in wearing down unsuspecting weather inducers, such as Politoed, Ninetales, and Abomasnow, that cannot do much damage back to Snorlax. Return is preferred for Snorlax's STAB due to its lack of recoil, but Double-Edge can 2HKO standard Landorus-T after Intimidate and Stealth Rock, physically defensive Donphan, 252 HP Latias after Stealth Rock, and standard Terrakion, making it a viable option. The remaining coverage moves are mainly to hit Steel-types. Fire Punch hits Ferrothorn, Forretress, Jirachi, and Scizor hard, provided that you can conceal that Snorlax runs Fire Punch until you have an opportunity to KO those Pokemon. The final move should be chosen based on what Pokemon you can afford to have wall Snorlax. Superpower is by far preferred, OHKOing Heatran, Tyranitar, Blissey, and Chansey. However, Wild Charge hits Tentacruel, Jellicent, Vaporeon, Slowbro, Politoed, and Skarmory hard. Keep in mind, however, that Skarmory can easily outspeed Snorlax and Roost to recover its HP while preventing Wild Charge from hitting it super effectively.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs provided enable Snorlax to survive two Draco Meteors from Latios or a Focus Blast from Modest Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus at full health. An alternative EV spread with 40 HP EVs and 40 Defense EVs allows Snorlax to survive a Crunch from Choice Band Tyranitar; other EV spreads that sacrifice power for more bulk are also usable. Earthquake is a viable alternative to Superpower because of its lack of stat drops, but inferior coverage and the prevalence of Ground-immune Pokemon in OU makes it easily set up on. Selfdestruct hits frighteningly hard, doing ridiculous damage to even the bulkiest of Pokemon. Sadly, it is illegal with Pursuit, but Selfdestruct is so insanely powerful that it is definitely worth consideration. Body Slam can spread paralysis, but the power drop from Return is significant.</p>

    <p>If Double-Edge is used, Wish support is vital for Snorlax's survival. Jirachi can not only provide that support but also set up Stealth Rock, spread paralysis, tank Dragon-type attacks, and lift some of the burden of taking special attacks off of Snorlax. Latias can also provide Wish support and has an immunity to Ground-type attacks as well as resistances to Water, Fighting, and Fire, which are the few types that aren't covered between Jirachi and Snorlax. A solid answer for Fighting-types is also necessary. Specially defensive Celebi can wall Keldeo and can consistently switch into non-Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, while Landorus-T provides a better response to Terrakion and can also deal with Scizor. Both of these Pokemon can set up Stealth Rock and have a slow U-turn, which is useful for bringing Snorlax in safely; Celebi can even provide paralysis support. Entry hazards are of great help to Snorlax on the opposing team's side of the field, and problematic for Snorlax should they be set up against it. The best partner to set up Spikes is Roserade because it can combat Keldeo, Rotom-W, and other Water-types very effectively. Taking rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks is difficult for Snorlax, and Roserade can do so with ease. Ferrothorn and Skarmory are also usable, but Skarmory cannot withstand special Water-type attacks, and neither can handle Keldeo. Rapid Spin support is also important to allow Snorlax to tank the attacks it is EVed to survive. Starmie, Tentacruel, and Forretress are the most effective spinners; choose the one that best complements your team's synergy. It is also best to have a Pokemon that can take the repeated physical blows that will wear down Snorlax; Skarmory and Jellicent can help mitigate the threat of physical attackers. As with all Pokemon in OU, it is best to have Snorlax in a weather that benefits it. Snorlax can patch up some common weaknesses of sun teams and enjoys the boost to Fire Punch, but Snorlax is also usable in rain, although Fire Punch's effectiveness will be diminished.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Two classic sets have all but disappeared from today's metagame: the famed CurseLax, and RestTalk Whirlwind. Neither of these sets are able to keep up with the fast-paced nature of BW OU. An attacking set with Expert Belt, Lum Berry, Chople Berry, or Leftovers over Choice Band can be viable, but the main issue of such a set is the power decrease; without Choice Band, Snorlax is too weak to be effective. A gimmicky set with Stockpile, Belly Drum, and ChestoRest has the potential to make Snorlax into a dangerous bulky sweeper, but is incredibly unrealistic to pull off. A set of Protect, Whirlwind, Body Slam, and Refresh is usable to spread paralysis and scout while staying free of status conditions. Three moves worthy of consideration are Fire Blast, which exploits Skarmory's and Forretress's low Special Defense; Counter, which can hit unwary physical attackers back hard; and Rock Slide, which can OHKO even bulky Volcarona.</p>

    <p>It must be emphasized that under no circumstances should one use Immunity or Gluttony over Thick Fat; Thick Fat is key to Snorlax's success. Without Thick Fat, Snorlax loses its main selling point as a check to sun teams, its only real niche in OU.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>One of the best ways to deal with Snorlax is to pack a powerful Fighting-type such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, or Conkeldurr. Terrakion is preferred because it resists Snorlax's STAB, but all of them can at least threaten Snorlax once they manage to switch in. Snorlax can also be worn down through residual damage. Status is the best way of doing so, particularly Toxic and burn&mdash;Rotom-W, Jellicent, and Tentacruel are your best bets for inflicting such conditions. Entry hazards and Leech Seed also limit the amount of time Snorlax will be able to spend in action. Rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks from Pokemon such as Keldeo and Rotom-W are your best bets for 2HKOing Snorlax with a special move. Hammering Snorlax with strong physical attacks from Pokemon such as Landorus-T will also do the trick.</p>

    <p>There are bulkier, more reliable counters for Snorlax. The most prominent of these is Skarmory, who cannot be 2HKOed by any move besides Wild Charge and can set up Spikes or stall with Roost. Another good counter is Jellicent, who also cannot be 2HKOed by any move besides Wild Charge and is immune to Normal-type attacks. Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and Gliscor are other Pokemon that work nicely, all of which are able to set up Stealth Rock and potentially inflict Snorlax with status. Snorlax is also vulnerable to being set up on by bulky setup sweepers, such as Latias and Dragonite. Overall, Snorlax isn't a difficult Pokemon to counter by any means, so it shouldn't be much trouble unless one is horrifically under-prepared for it.</p>
  2. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    As you can see, Body Slam is only really only relevant against Landorus and the occasional Terrakions that might switch in (reflect Latias isn't used...). Return should get the first slash, no question; It's noticeably stronger than Body Slam and more useful in the long run.

    Anyway, i'm going to approve this. You outlined why someone would want to use Snorlax in OU with some solid reasons to back up that claim. Good work!!

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  3. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    You and I have discussed Snorlax on IRC and, like PKGaming, I am happy with how it looks.

    [qc]2/3[/qc]

    Good Job!
  4. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Double-Edge deserves at least an AC mention

    OO mention an all-out attacker without Choice Band. The ability to switch moves is certainly a welcome for such a diverse mon such as Snorlax. Expert Belt / Lum Berry / Chople Berry are all good choices, imo.

    OO mention Counter for taking out physical mons that it cant quite knock out with its physical offense.

    OO mention Fire Blast for Skarmory / Forretress

    OO mention Protect for lefties recovery without using RestTalk.
  5. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    I think Double-Edge might be illegal with Pursuit, so maybe if you are to use it, you probably have to use Crunch. This might apply to Selfdestruct as well.

    Otherwise, implement the changes brought up by PK, ginga, and Pocket and I'll approve this.
  6. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    Pursuit and Double-Edge are legal together. The Cranidos line gets Double-Edge via breeding and learns Pursuit level up; both Pokemon share the same breeding group as the Munchlax line -- Monster. Selfdestruct is illegal with Pursuit however.

    That said, I think that Double-Edge is slash worthy. Foremost, unlike Return, it always 2HKOes 200 / 244 Lando-T after Intimidate and SR, almost always 2HKOes Terrakion without rocks, 2HKOes 252/252 Impish Donphan with rocks, and is just a powerful move in general. The recoil shouldn't be that significant to Snorlax's survival and the extra power really comes in handy considering that Snorlax won't be staying in for long, anyway.
  7. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    ~ Warn readers that CB lax is downed by 2 LO Hydro Pumps from Starmie in the Rain
    ~ Latios can 2HKO Snorlax with Specs Psyshock, so Snorlax isn't exactly in the clear
    ~ list some Pursuit calcs to impress readers please

    Maybe list some pokemon that CB Selfdestruct can kill for illustration

    ~ Heavy emphasis on Rapid Spin support - this is more crucial than hazards support. It's guaranteed survival against 2 Specs Draco Meteors / Hurricanes and 1 Sheer Force LO Focus Blast, etc is not guaranteed if worn down by hazards.

    ~ Also Wish support wouldn't hurt, since CB Lax has no other means of maintaining its bulk

    ~ Add Lefties in OO as other items that it can use instead of Choice Band; it can help buffer Double-Edge recoil in particular

    ~ You forgot to OO mention Protect for an additional turns of Lefties recovery

    ~ Add Ghost-types like Jellicent and Sableye under checks and counters. Warn to watch out for Wild Charge and Crunch, but otherwise, Jellicent / Sableye can burn it.

    ~ Add Steel-types, too - other than Fire Punch / Superpower, mons like Forretress, Jirachi, and Ferrothorn can switch in and do their thing.
  8. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Add Jirachi in the list of Steel counters to Snorlax - it'll be tough to take it down in the Rain if it has Iron Head.

    Protect Snorlax is meant for defensive Snorlax, similar to Rest Talk lax; not on an all-out attacker - that would simply be a waste of Snorlax's offensive coverage.

    Add Refresh under OO to remove status conditions; you can add shrang's Stockpile + Belly Drum + ChestoRest combo, too, lol
  9. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    In OO:

    Might want to remove that. Otherwise, if you put in all of Pocket's other suggestions,

    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  10. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    Okay I will write this up soon!
  11. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    This is written up and ready for GP checks, although I'm willing to shorten it if it's too tl;dr

    EDIT: never mind, don't gp, I'm doing some concision and other revisions

    EDIT2: ok I think this is concise enough
  12. MysticNova

    MysticNova

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    AM Check (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Snorlax's main use in OU is to stopping common sun sweepers, such as Volcarona. Thick Fat and great special bulk allows Snorlax to deal with numerous special attackers. Snorlax is unique in being able to take those hits and stillhits well while still being able to hit quite hard. ItSnorlax can also Pursuit trap, which is always useful. It must be understood, however, that none of this equates to Snorlax being an amazing Pokemon. I; it simply has a niche. While in previous generations fewer Pokemon could hit it hard, this generation shifted the metagame toward a more offensive one filled with threatening Fighting-types. The metagame is too fast-paced for the once-godlike Curselax to achieve much of anything. The prevalence of rain allows any Pokemon with a powerful Water STAB to rip Snorlax apart. Common sweepers, (comma) such as Dragonite, Latias, and Keldeo, (comma) can exploit Snorlax's abysmal Speed. Despite these disadvantages, Snorlax can do one thing well, and that is checking sun teams; Pokemon that can do so are short in suppl, which is truly a rare ability.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Return / Double-Edge
    move 2: Pursuit
    move 3: Fire Punch
    move 4: Superpower / Wild Charge
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The main goal of this set is to function as what one might call a "utility check". With Choice Band-boosted attacks and high special bulk, Snorlax can combat sun teams effectively, boasting the ability to defeat Xatu, Volcarona, Venusaur, and Dugtrio&mdash;a common sun team core. With its great special bulk, Snorlax can check Pokemon such as Latios, Latias, and Tornadus-T.</p>

    <p>Pursuit is perhaps the crux of the set. Snorlax has excellent match-ups versus numerous Pursuit-weak Pokemon, such as Gengar, Latios, Starmie, and Celebi. Upon closer examination, one can see that none of these Pokemon can do much of anything, (comma) and that Snorlax can OHKO all of them. Pursuit also helps in wearing down unsuspecting weather inducers. Return is preferred for Snorlax's STAB due to its lack of recoil, but Double-Edge can 2HKO standard Landorus-T after Intimidate and Stealth Rock, physically defensive Donphan, 252 HP Latios after Stealth Rock, and standard Terrakion 91.8% of the time, making it a tough competitor. The coverage moves are mainly to hit Steel-types. Fire Punch hits Ferrothorn, Forretress, Jirachi, and Scizor hard; just make sure to keep the move hidden until you need it. The final move determines which Pokemon can wall Snorlax; the independent variable, if you will. Superpower is by far preferred, as it OHKOes Heatran, Tyranitar, Blissey, and Chansey. However, Wild Charge hits (Tentacruel?) Jellicent, Vaporeon, Slowbro, Politoed, Tornadus-T, and the most threatening of them all, Skarmory, hard. A physical attacker 2HKOing Skarmory 100% of the time is not something you see every day.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs enable Snorlax to survive two Draco Meteors from Latios and a Focus Blast from Modest Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus's Focus Blast without entry hazard damage. This spread strikes a perfect balance between bulk and offense, which is exactly what Snorlax needs. If one would like, a spread with 40 HP EVs and 40 Defense EVs allows Snorlax to survive a Crunch from Choice Band Tyranitar or one. A spread that sacrifices power for bulk is also usable. There are three other moves worth consideration. Earthquake ais a viable alternative to Superpower forbecause of its lack of stat drops, but inferior coverage and the prevalence of Ground-immune Pokemon in OU makes it easily set up on. Selfdestruct hits frighteningly hard, doing ridiculous damage to even the bulkiest of Pokemon. Sadly, it is illegal with Pursuit, but Selfdestruct is so insanely powerful that it's definitely worth the sacrifice is worth consideration. Body Slam is a pretty large downgrade in power, but it's worth using if you want to is nice for spreading paralysis.(worth is repetitive here)</p>

    <p>If Double-Edge is used, Wish support is vital for Snorlax's survival. Jirachi can not only provide that support but also set up Stealth Rock, spread paralysis, tank Dragon-type attacks, and lift some of the burden of taking every special attacks off of Snorlax. Latias can also provide Wish support and has a Ground immunity and Water, Fighting, and Fire resistances. This patches up the holes of Jirachi and Snorlax, so the three can make an excellent core that has all of its bases covered. A solid answer for Fighting-types is also necessary. Specially defensive Celebi can wall Keldeo and offers a solid answer to Thundurus-T. Landorus-T provides a better response to Terrakion and can also deal with Scizor. Both of these Pokemon can set up Stealth Rock and have a slow U-turn, which is useful to bring Snorlax in safely. Celebi can also provide paralysis support. On the topic of eEntry hazards, they are both an obstacle and an aid blessing for Snorlax. The best partner to set up Spikes is Roserade because it can combat Keldeo, Rotom-W, and other Water-types very effectively. Taking rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks is difficult for Snorlax, and Roserade can do so with ease. Rapid Spin support is also important to allow Snorlax to tank the attacks its EVs are designed to tank. Starmie, Tentacruel, and Forretress are the most effective options, each with their own benefits. It's is also best to have a Pokemon such as Skarmory or Jellicent that can take the repeated physical blows, the latter having the ability to spread burnat Snorlax cannot,(comma) such as Skarmory and Jellicent. As with all Pokemon in OU, it is best to have itSnorlax in a weather that benefits it. Snorlax can patch up some common weaknesses of sun teams and enjoys the boost to Fire Punch, but rain also works fine.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>In the generation shift, two sets basically dissipated: the famed Curselax and RestTalk Whirlwind. The main issue with these sets is their slow pace, which isn't exactly compatible with thise fast-paced metagame. Another viable set is the one listed excep attacking set with Expert Belt, Lum Berry, Chople Berry, or Leftovers over Choice Band. T can be viable, but the main issue is the power decrease; without Choice Band, Snorlax is just too weak. A gimmicky set with Stockpile, Belly Drum, and ChestoRest works pretty nicely if you manage to pull it off, but pulling it off is precisely the issue. A set of Protect, Whirlwind, Body Slam, and Refresh is usable to spread paralysis, and scout, and cure status while doing so while staying free of status conditions. Two moves worthy of consideration are Fire Blast to,(comma) which exploits Skarmory and Forretress's low Special Defense,(comma) and Counter to,(comma) which can hit unwary physical attackers back hard.</p>

    <p>It must be emphasized that under no circumstance should one use Immunity or Gluttony over Thick Fat; Thick Fat is key to Snorlax's success. Without Thick Fat, Snorlax loses its major selling point as a sun check. It is just not viable to run any alternative, plain and simple.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>One of the best ways to deal with Snorlax is to pack a powerful Fighting-types, such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, and Conkeldurr. Terrakion is preferred because it resists Snorlax's STAB, but all of them work. Snorlax can also be dealt with through residual damage. Status is the best way of doing so, particularly Toxic and burn&mdash;Rotom-W, Jellicent, and Tentacruel are your best bets for theminflicting such conditions. Entry hazards and Leech Seed also work. Rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks from Pokemon such as Keldeo and Rotom-W are your best bets for 2HKOing Snorlax with a special move. Hammering Snorlax with strong physical attacks from Pokemon such as Landorus-T will also do the trick.</p>

    <p>There are more reliable counters available for Snorlax if you wish. The most prominent of these is Skarmory, who cannot be 2HKOed by any move besides Wild Charge and set up Spikes or stall with Roost. Another good counter is Jellicent, who also cannot be 2HKOed by any move besides Wild Charge and is immune to Normal. Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and Gliscor are other Pokemon that work nicely, all of whoich are able to set up Stealth Rock and potentially status Snorlax. Snorlax is also vulnerable to being set up on by bulky setup sweepers, (comma) such as Latias and Dragonite. As you can see, Snorlax isn't a difficult Pokemon to counter by any means, so it shouldn't be much trouble unless one is horrifically under-prepared for it.</p>



  13. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    ok I implemented most of your check just a couple things were wrong with it, great job and thanks for the check!
  14. tehy

    tehy

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    AMcheck no jutsu!!!!

    Hopefully this is helpful, i may not have the spaces down perfectly right now, so look out for that. A lot of comments, feel free to ignore if you'd like.

    Show Hide
    >The main goal of this set is to function as what one might call a "utility check". With Choice Band-boosted attacks and high special bulk, Snorlax can combat sun teams effectively, boasting the ability to defeat Xatu, Volcarona, Venusaur, and Dugtrio&mdash;a common sun team core. With its great special bulk, Snorlax can check Pokemon such as Latios, Latias, and Tornadus-T.</p>

    <p>Pursuit is perhaps the crux of the set. Snorlax has excellent match-ups versus numerous Pursuit-weak Pokemon, such as Gengar, Latios, Starmie, and Celebi. Upon closer examination, one can see that none of these Pokemon can do much of anything to snorlax, while and that Snorlax can OHKO all of them. Pursuit also helps in wearing down unsuspecting weather inducers. Return is preferred for Snorlax's STAB due to its lack of recoil, but Double-Edge can 2HKO standard Landorus-T after Intimidate and Stealth Rock, physically defensive Donphan, 252 HP Latios after Stealth Rock, and standard Terrakion 91.8% of the time, making it a tough competitor. (Are you sure he doesn't OHKO latios? Also, adding "91.8% of the time" at the end there sort of implies it for all of them, which is pretty unlikely, considering.) The coverage moves are mainly to hit Steel-types. Fire Punch hits Ferrothorn, Forretress, Jirachi, and Scizor hard; just make sure to keep the move hidden until you need it. The final move determines which Pokemon can wall Snorlax; the dependent variable, if you will(Was that part necessary? Kind of cool-sounding.). Superpower is by far preferred, as it OHKO'inges Heatran, Tyranitar, Blissey, and Chansey. However, Wild Charge hits Tentacruel, Jellicent, Vaporeon, Slowbro, Politoed, Tornadus-T, and the most threatening of them all, Skarmory, hard(But not THAT much harder than other moves it's got and it has recoil. Literally 20% harder than otherwise, maybe write that in). A physical attacker 2HKOing Skarmory 100% of the time is not something you see every day.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs enable Snorlax to survive two Draco Meteors from Latios and a Focus Blast from Modest Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus's Focus Blast without entry hazard damage. This spread strikes a perfect balance between bulk and offense, which is exactly what Snorlax needs. If one would like, aA spread with 40 HP EVs and 40 Defense EVs allows Snorlax to survive a Crunch from Choice Band Tyranitar., and a A spread that sacrifices power for bulk is also usable. There are three other moves worth consideration. Earthquake is a viable alternative to Superpower because of its lack of stat drops, but inferior coverage and the prevalence of Ground-immune Pokemon in OU makes it easily set up on(Also, it's weaker.). Selfdestruct hits frighteningly hard, doing ridiculous damage to even the bulkiest of Pokemon., but the unfortunate side effects of Snorlax's death upon usage and its illegality with pursuit make it rare(I'm unsatisfied with how i wrote that), if worth consideration. Sadly, it is illegal with Pursuit, but Selfdestruct is so insanely powerful that it is definitely worth consideration. Body Slam is a pretty large downgrade in power, but it is nice for spreading paralysis is nice.</p>

    <p>If Double-Edge is used, Wish support is vital for Snorlax's survival. Jirachi can not only provide that support but also set up Stealth Rock, spread paralysis, tank Dragon-type attacks, and lift some of the burden of taking special attacks off of from Snorlax. Latias can also provide Wish support and has a Ground immunity and Water, Fighting, and Fire resistances., This which patches up any the holes left by Jirachi and Snorlax, allowing them to form an excellent three-man core.so the three can make an excellent core that has all of its bases covered. A solid answer for Fighting-types is also necessary. Specially defensive Celebi can wall Keldeo and offers a solid answer to Thundurus-T., while Landorus-T provides a better response to Terrakion and can also deal with Scizor. Both of these Pokemon can set up Stealth Rock and have a slow U-turn, which is useful to for bringing Snorlax in safely. ,and Celebi can also even provide paralysis support. Entry hazards are both a blessing and a curse for Snorlax. The best partner to set up Spikes is Roserade because it can combat Keldeo, Rotom-W, and other Water-types very effectively( So it's the best because it beats pokemon he can beat while taking heavy damage in the process, and have serious trouble switching in on him, and aren't even that dangerous unless rain is up? Other than keldeo, that is-you've got a point there.Also, other than keldeo, ferro can take water-types rather well, and spike. Seeing as you mention skam and forry later on, maybe integrate them in here? They can lay spikes for him, after all.) Taking rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks is difficult for Snorlax, and Roserade can do so with ease. Rapid Spin support is also important to allow Snorlax to tank the attacks its EVs are designed to tank. Starmie, Tentacruel, and Forretress are the most effective options, each with their own benefits. It is also best to have a Pokemon that can take the repeated physical blows Snorlax cannot, such as Skarmory and Jellicent. As with all Pokemon in OU, it is best to have Snorlax in a weather that benefits it. Snorlax can patch up some common weaknesses of sun teams and enjoys the boost to Fire Punch, but rain also works fine.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>In the generation shift, two sets basically dissipated disappeared: the famed Curselax and RestTalk Whirlwind. The main issue with these sets is their slow pace, which isn't compatible with the fast-paced metagame. An attacking set with Expert Belt, Lum Berry, Chople Berry, or Leftovers over Choice Band can be viable, but the main issue of such a set is the power decrease; without Choice Band, Snorlax is just too weak. A gimmicky set with Stockpile, Belly Drum, and ChestoRest works pretty nicely if you manage to pull it off, but pulling it off is precisely the issue (Also, it's either walled by ghosts or wielding a pretty weak coverage move). A set of Protect, Whirlwind, Body Slam, and Refresh is usable to spread paralysis and scout while staying free of status conditions. Two moves worthy of consideration are Fire Blast, which exploits Skarmory and Forretress's low Special Defense, and Counter, which can hit unwary physical attackers back hard.</p>

    <p>It must be emphasized that under no circumstance should one use Immunity or Gluttony over Thick Fat; Thick Fat is key to Snorlax's success. Without Thick Fat, Snorlax loses its majorin selling point as a sun check. It's just not viable to run any alternative., plain and simple.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>One of the best ways to deal with Snorlax is to pack a powerful Fighting-type, such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, and or Conkeldurr. Terrakion is preferred because it resists Snorlax's STAB, but all of them work. Snorlax can also be dealt with through residual damage. Status is the best way of doing so, particularly Toxic and burn&mdash;Rotom-W, Jellicent, and Tentacruel are your best bets for inflicting such conditions. Entry hazards and Leech Seed also work. Rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks from Pokemon such as Keldeo and Rotom-W are your best bets for 2HKOing Snorlax with a special move(Technically Secret Sword would probably OHKO, and Lando's Focus Blast is a terrible bet to 2HKO, as it would OHKO with hazards, or miss. But that probably needs to go there. Also, gengar can switch in on a LOT of that set easily, and focus blast probably does a ton;he can even subdisable pursuit.) Hammering Snorlax with strong physical attacks from Pokemon such as Landorus-T will also do the trick.</p>

    <p>There are more reliable counters available for Snorlax if you wish. The most prominent of these is Skarmory, who cannot be 2HKOed by any move besides Wild Charge and set up Spikes or stall with Roost. Another good counter is Jellicent, who also cannot be 2HKOed by any move besides Wild Charge and is immune to Normal. Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and Gliscor are other Pokemon that work nicely, all of which are able to set up Stealth Rock and potentially status Snorlax. Snorlax is also vulnerable to being set up on by bulky setup sweepers, such as Latias and Dragonite. As you can see, Snorlax isn't a difficult Pokemon to counter by any means, so it shouldn't be much trouble unless one is horrifically under-prepared for it.</p>
  15. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
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    okay, I implemented some of the changes. straightforward mistakes, I mean. when you tried to change things, you rewrote them improperly, and sentences were combined incorrectly with no regard for the phrasing afterward. maybe say your changes out loud before you make them to ensure they make sense and are not awkwardly phrased. also, remember the Overview next time ;)

    nonetheless, thanks for the check!
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Ctr + f Rock Slide = nothing found

    Rock Slide should be in OO, as it is the only move that Snorlax has and can OHKO bulky Volcarona, as anything less than a OHKO has a chance to fail if Flame Body activates.
  17. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    I mentioned it in OO, thanks!
  18. Oglemi

    Oglemi I love you wonderful Minun-Kun!
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    [Overview]

    <p>Snorlax's main use in OU is to stop common sun sweepers, such as Volcarona. Thick Fat and great special bulk allow Snorlax to deal with numerous special attackers. Snorlax is unique in being able to take hits well while still being able to hit quite hard. Snorlax can also Pursuit trap, which is always useful. It must be understood, however, that none of this equates to Snorlax being an amazing Pokemon; it simply has a niche. While in previous generations fewer Pokemon could hit it hard, this generation shifted the metagame toward a more offensive one filled with threatening Fighting-types. The metagame is too fast-paced for the once-godlike CurseLax to achieve much of anything. The prevalence of rain allows any Pokemon with a powerful Water STAB to rip Snorlax apart. Common sweepers, such as Dragonite, Latias, and Keldeo, can exploit Snorlax's abysmal Speed. Despite these disadvantages, Snorlax can do one thing well, and that is check sun teams, which is truly a rare ability.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Return / Double-Edge
    move 2: Pursuit
    move 3: Fire Punch
    move 4: Superpower / Wild Charge
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The main goal of this set is to function as what one might call a "utility check." With Choice Band-boosted attacks and high special bulk, Snorlax can combat sun teams effectively, boasting the ability to defeat Xatu, Volcarona, Venusaur, and Dugtrio&mdash;a common sun team core. With its great special bulk, Snorlax can check Pokemon such as Latios and Latias and Tornadus-T.</p>

    <p>Pursuit is perhaps the crux of the set. Snorlax has excellent match-ups versus numerous Pursuit-weak Pokemon such as Gengar, Latios, Starmie, and Celebi. Upon closer examination, one can see that none of these Pokemon can do much of anything to Snorlax and that Snorlax can OHKO them. Pursuit also helps in wearing down unsuspecting weather inducers. Return is preferred for Snorlax's STAB due to its lack of recoil, but Double-Edge can 2HKO standard Landorus-T after Intimidate and Stealth Rock, physically defensive Donphan, 252 HP Latias after Stealth Rock, and standard Terrakion, making it a tough competitor. The coverage moves are mainly to hit Steel-types. Fire Punch hits Ferrothorn, Forretress, Jirachi, and Scizor hard; just make sure to keep the move hidden until you need it. The final move determines which Pokemon can wall Snorlax; the dependent variable, if you will. Superpower is by far preferred, OHKOing Heatran, Tyranitar, Blissey, and Chansey. However, Wild Charge hits Tentacruel, Jellicent, Vaporeon, Slowbro, Politoed, Tornadus-T, and the most threatening of them all, Skarmory, hard. A physical attacker 2HKOing Skarmory 100% of the time is not something you see every day.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs enable Snorlax to survive two Draco Meteors from Latios and a Focus Blast from Modest Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus without entry hazard damage. This spread strikes a perfect balance between bulk and offense, which is exactly what Snorlax needs. An alternative EV spread with 40 HP EVs and 40 Defense EVs allows Snorlax to survive a Crunch from Choice Band Tyranitar, as well as and one that sacrifices power for bulk is also usable. Earthquake is a viable alternative to Superpower because of its lack of stat drops, but inferior coverage and the prevalence of Ground-immune Pokemon in OU makes it easily set up on. Selfdestruct hits frighteningly hard, doing ridiculous damage to even the bulkiest of Pokemon. Sadly, it is illegal with Pursuit, but Selfdestruct is so insanely powerful that it is definitely worth consideration. Body Slam is a pretty large downgrade in power, but spreading paralysis is nice.</p>

    <p>If Double-Edge is used, Wish support is vital for Snorlax's survival. Jirachi can not only provide that support but also set up Stealth Rock, spread paralysis, tank Dragon-type attacks, and lift some of the burden of taking special attacks off of Snorlax. Latias can also provide Wish support and has a Ground immunity and Water, Fighting, and Fire resistances, which are the few things that Jirachi and Snorlax alone do not cover. A solid answer for Fighting-types is also necessary. Specially defensive Celebi can wall Keldeo and offers a solid answer to Thundurus-T, while Landorus-T provides a better response to Terrakion and can also deal with Scizor. Both of these Pokemon can set up Stealth Rock and have a slow U-turn, which is useful for bringing Snorlax in safely; Celebi can even provide paralysis support. Entry hazards are both a blessing and a curse for Snorlax. The best partner to set up Spikes is Roserade because it can combat Keldeo, Rotom-W, and other Water-types very effectively. Ferrothorn and Skarmory are also usable, but both cannot handle Keldeo, making them inferior. Taking rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks is difficult for Snorlax, and Roserade can do so with ease. Rapid Spin support is also important to allow Snorlax to tank the attacks its EVs are designed to tank. Starmie, Tentacruel, and Forretress are the most effective options, each with their own benefits. It is also best to have a Pokemon that can take the repeated physical blows Snorlax cannot, such as Skarmory and Jellicent. As with all Pokemon in OU, it is best to have Snorlax in a weather that benefits it. Snorlax can patch up some common weaknesses of sun teams and enjoys the boost to Fire Punch, but rain also works fine.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>In the generation shift, two sets basically disappeared: the famed CurseLax and RestTalk Whirlwind. The main issue with these sets is their slow pace, which isn't compatible with the fast-paced metagame. An attacking set with Expert Belt, Lum Berry, Chople Berry, or Leftovers over Choice Band can be viable, but the main issue of such a set is the power decrease; without Choice Band, Snorlax is just too weak. A gimmicky set with Stockpile, Belly Drum, and ChestoRest works pretty nicely if you manage to pull it off, but pulling it off is precisely the issue. A set of Protect, Whirlwind, Body Slam, and Refresh is usable to spread paralysis and scout while staying free of status conditions. Three moves worthy of consideration are Fire Blast, which exploits Skarmory's and Forretress's low Special Defense, Counter, which can hit unwary physical attackers back hard, and Rock Slide, which can OHKO even bulky Volcarona.</p>

    <p>It must be emphasized that under no circumstance should one use Immunity or Gluttony over Thick Fat; Thick Fat is key to Snorlax's success. Without Thick Fat, Snorlax loses its main selling point as a sun check. It's just not viable to run any alternative.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>One of the best ways to deal with Snorlax is to pack a powerful Fighting-type such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, or Conkeldurr. Terrakion is preferred because it resists Snorlax's STAB, but all of them work. Snorlax can also be dealt with through residual damage. Status is the best way of doing so, particularly Toxic and burn&mdash;Rotom-W, Jellicent, and Tentacruel are your best bets for inflicting such conditions. Entry hazards and Leech Seed also work. Rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks from Pokemon such as Keldeo and Rotom-W are your best bets for 2HKOing Snorlax with a special move. Hammering Snorlax with strong physical attacks from Pokemon such as Landorus-T will also do the trick.</p>

    <p>There are more reliable counters available for Snorlax if you wish. The most prominent of these is Skarmory, who cannot be 2HKOed by any move besides Wild Charge and can set up Spikes or stall with Roost. Another good counter is Jellicent, who also cannot be 2HKOed by any move besides Wild Charge and is immune to Normal. Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and Gliscor are other Pokemon that work nicely, all of which are able to set up Stealth Rock and potentially status Snorlax. Snorlax is also vulnerable to being set up on by bulky setup sweepers, such as Latias and Dragonite. As you can see, Snorlax isn't a difficult Pokemon to counter by any means, so it shouldn't be much trouble unless one is horrifically under-prepared for it.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  19. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
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    ok implemented, thanks oglemi!
  20. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck i am woodchuck
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderator
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    amcheck (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Snorlax's main use in OU is to stop common sun sweepers, such as Volcarona. Thick Fat and great special bulk allow Snorlax to deal with numerous special attackers. Snorlax is unique in being able to take hits well while still being able to hit quite hard. Snorlax can also Pursuit trap, which is always useful. It must be understood, however, that none of this equates to Snorlax being an amazing Pokemon; it simply has a niche. While, in previous generations, fewer Pokemon could hit it hard, this generation shifted the metagame toward a more offensive one filled with threatening Fighting-types. The current metagame is too fast-paced for the once-godlike CurseLax to achieve much of anything. T, and the prevalence of rain allows any Pokemon with a powerful Water STAB to rip Snorlax apart. Common sweepers, such as Dragonite, Latias, and Keldeo, can exploit Snorlax's abysmal Speed. Despite these disadvantages, Snorlax can do one thing well, and that is check sun teams, which is truly a rare ability.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Return / Double-Edge
    move 2: Pursuit
    move 3: Fire Punch
    move 4: Superpower / Wild Charge
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The main goal of this set is to function as what one might call a "utility check." With Choice Band-boosted attacks and high special bulk, Snorlax can combat sun teams effectively, boasting the ability to defeat Xatu, Volcarona, Venusaur, and Dugtrio&mdash;a common sun team core. With its great special bulk, Snorlax can also check Pokemon such as Latios and Latias that rely on special attacks to deal damage.</p>

    <p>Pursuit is perhaps the crux of the set. Snorlax has excellent match-ups versus numerous Pursuit-weak Pokemon such as Gengar, Latios, Starmie, and Celebi. Upon closer examination, one can see that; none of these Pokemon can do much of anything to Snorlax and that, while Snorlax can easily switch in and OHKO them. Pursuit also helps in wearing down unsuspecting weather inducers, such as Politoed, Ninetales, and Abomasnow, that cannot do much damage back to Snorlax. Return is preferred for Snorlax's STAB due to its lack of recoil, but Double-Edge can 2HKO standard Landorus-T after Intimidate and Stealth Rock, physically defensive Donphan, 252 HP Latias after Stealth Rock, and standard Terrakion, making it a tough competitorviable option. The remaining coverage moves are mainly to hit Steel-types. Fire Punch hits Ferrothorn, Forretress, Jirachi, and Scizor hard; just make sure to keep, provided that you can conceal the move hiddenat Snorlax runs Fire Punch until you have aneed opportunity to KO those Pokemon. The final move determinesshould be chosen based on whichat Pokemon you can wall Snorlax; the dependent variable, if you willafford to have wall Snorlax. Superpower is by far preferred, OHKOing Heatran, Tyranitar, Blissey, and Chansey. However, Wild Charge hits Tentacruel, Jellicent, Vaporeon, Slowbro, Politoed, and the most threatening ofSkarmory hard. Keep in mind, however, them all,at Skarmory, hard. A physical attacker 2HKOing Skarmory 100% of th can easily outspeed Snorlax and Roost to recover its HP while preventime is not somethng Wild Charge from hitting you seeit super effectivery daly.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs provided enable Snorlax to survive two Draco Meteors from Latios andor a Focus Blast from Modest Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus without entry hazard damage. This spread strikes a perfect balance between bulk and offense, which is exactly what Snorlax needsl health. An alternative EV spread with 40 HP EVs and 40 Defense EVs allows Snorlax to survive a Crunch from Choice Band Tyranitar, and one; other EV spreads that sacrifices power for more bulk isare also usable. Earthquake is a viable alternative to Superpower because of its lack of stat drops, but inferior coverage and the prevalence of Ground-immune Pokemon in OU makes it easily set up on. Selfdestruct hits frighteningly hard, doing ridiculous damage to even the bulkiest of Pokemon. Sadly, it is illegal with Pursuit, but Selfdestruct is so insanely powerful that it is definitely worth consideration. Body Slam is a can spretty large downgradad paralysis, but the in power, but spreading paralys drop from Return is is nicesignificant.</p>

    <p>If Double-Edge is used, Wish support is vital for Snorlax's survival. Jirachi can not only provide that support but also set up Stealth Rock, spread paralysis, tank Dragon-type attacks, and lift some of the burden of taking special attacks off of Snorlax. Latias can also provide Wish support and has a Ground immunity ato Ground-type attacks as well as resistances to Water, Fighting, and Fire resistances, which are the few thingypes that aren't covered between Jirachi and Snorlax alone do not cover. A solid answer for Fighting-types is also necessary. Specially defensive Celebi can wall Keldeo and offers a solid answer can consistently switch into non-Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, while Landorus-T provides a better response to Terrakion and can also deal with Scizor. Both of these Pokemon can set up Stealth Rock and have a slow U-turn, which is useful for bringing Snorlax in safely; Celebi can even provide paralysis support. Entry hazards are both a blesof great help to Snorlax on the opposing and a curseteam's side of the field, and problematic for Snorlax should they be set up against it. The best partner to set up Spikes is Roserade because it can combat Keldeo, Rotom-W, and other Water-types very effectively. Taking rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks is difficult for Snorlax, and Roserade can do so with ease. Ferrothorn and Skarmory are also usable, but bothSkarmory cannot handle Keldeo, making them inferior. Taking rain-boosted STABwithstand special Water-type attacks is difficult for Snorlax, and Rosneitherade can do so with easehandle Keldeo. Rapid Spin support is also important to allow Snorlax to tank the attacks it is EVs are designed to tanksurvive. Starmie, Tentacruel, and Forretress are the most effective options, easpinners; choose withe one their own benefitsat best complements your team's synergy. It is also best to have a Pokemon that can take the repeated physical blows that will wear down Snorlax cannot, such as; Skarmory and Jellicent can help mitigate the threat of physical attackers. As with all Pokemon in OU, it is best to have Snorlax in a weather that benefits it. Snorlax can patch up some common weaknesses of sun teams and enjoys the boost to Fire Punch, but rainSnorlax is also workusable in rain, although Fire Punch's effectiveness will be diminished.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>In the generation shift, twoTwo classic sets basichave ally but disappeared from today's metagame: the famed CurseLax, and RestTalk Whirlwind. The main issue wNeither of these sets is their slow pace, which isn't compatibleare able to keep up with the fast-paced metagamenature of BW OU. An attacking set with Expert Belt, Lum Berry, Chople Berry, or Leftovers over Choice Band can be viable, but the main issue of such a set is the power decrease; without Choice Band, Snorlax is just too weak to be effective. A gimmicky set with Stockpile, Belly Drum, and ChestoRest works pretty nicely if youhas the potential to manage to pull it off,ke Snorlax into a dangerous but pulling it offlky sweeper, but is preciseincredibly the issueunrealistic to pull off. A set of Protect, Whirlwind, Body Slam, and Refresh is usable to spread paralysis and scout while staying free of status conditions. Three moves worthy of consideration are Fire Blast, which exploits Skarmory's and Forretress's low Special Defense, Counter, which can hit unwary physical attackers back hard, and Rock Slide, which can OHKO even bulky Volcarona.</p>

    <p>It must be emphasized that under no circumstances should one use Immunity or Gluttony over Thick Fat; Thick Fat is key to Snorlax's success. Without Thick Fat, Snorlax loses its main selling point as a sun check. It's just not viable to run an to sun teams, its only realternative niche in OU.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>One of the best ways to deal with Snorlax is to pack a powerful Fighting-type such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, or Conkeldurr. Terrakion is preferred because it resists Snorlax's STAB, but all of them workcan at least threaten Snorlax once they manage to switch in. Snorlax can also be dealt withworn down through residual damage. Status is the best way of doing so, particularly Toxic and burn&mdash;Rotom-W, Jellicent, and Tentacruel are your best bets for inflicting such conditions. Entry hazards and Leech Seed also worklimit the amount of time Snorlax will be able to spend in action. Rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks from Pokemon such as Keldeo and Rotom-W are your best bets for 2HKOing Snorlax with a special move. Hammering Snorlax with strong physical attacks from Pokemon such as Landorus-T will also do the trick.</p>

    <p>There are bulkier, more reliable counters available for Snorlax if you wish. The most prominent of these is Skarmory, who cannot be 2HKOed by any move besides Wild Charge and can set up Spikes or stall with Roost. Another good counter is Jellicent, who also cannot be 2HKOed by any move besides Wild Charge and is immune to Normal-type attacks. Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and Gliscor are other Pokemon that work nicely, all of which are able to set up Stealth Rock and potentially statusinflict Snorlax with status. Snorlax is also vulnerable to being set up on by bulky setup sweepers, such as Latias and Dragonite. As you can seeOverall, Snorlax isn't a difficult Pokemon to counter by any means, so it shouldn't be much trouble unless one is horrifically under-prepared for it.</p>

    c/p (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Snorlax's main use in OU is to stop common sun sweepers, such as Volcarona. Thick Fat and great special bulk allow Snorlax to deal with numerous special attackers. Snorlax is unique in being able to take hits well while still being able to hit quite hard. Snorlax can also Pursuit trap, which is always useful. It must be understood, however, that none of this equates to Snorlax being an amazing Pokemon; it simply has a niche. While, in previous generations, fewer Pokemon could hit it hard, this generation shifted the metagame toward a more offensive one filled with threatening Fighting-types. The current metagame is too fast-paced for the once godlike CurseLax to achieve much of anything, and the prevalence of rain allows any Pokemon with a powerful Water STAB to rip Snorlax apart. Common sweepers, such as Dragonite, Latias, and Keldeo, can exploit Snorlax's abysmal Speed. Despite these disadvantages, Snorlax can do one thing well, and that is check sun teams, which is truly a rare ability.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Return / Double-Edge
    move 2: Pursuit
    move 3: Fire Punch
    move 4: Superpower / Wild Charge
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The main goal of this set is to function as what one might call a "utility check." With Choice Band-boosted attacks and high special bulk, Snorlax can combat sun teams effectively, boasting the ability to defeat Xatu, Volcarona, Venusaur, and Dugtrio&mdash;a common sun team core. With its great special bulk, Snorlax can also check Pokemon such as Latios and Latias that rely on special attacks to deal damage.</p>

    <p>Pursuit is perhaps the crux of the set. Snorlax has excellent match-ups versus numerous Pursuit-weak Pokemon such as Gengar, Latios, Starmie, and Celebi; none of these Pokemon can do much of anything to Snorlax, while Snorlax can easily switch in and OHKO them. Pursuit also helps in wearing down unsuspecting weather inducers, such as Politoed, Ninetales, and Abomasnow, that cannot do much damage back to Snorlax. Return is preferred for Snorlax's STAB due to its lack of recoil, but Double-Edge can 2HKO standard Landorus-T after Intimidate and Stealth Rock, physically defensive Donphan, 252 HP Latias after Stealth Rock, and standard Terrakion, making it a viable option. The remaining coverage moves are mainly to hit Steel-types. Fire Punch hits Ferrothorn, Forretress, Jirachi, and Scizor hard, provided that you can conceal that Snorlax runs Fire Punch until you have an opportunity to KO those Pokemon. The final move should be chosen based on what Pokemon you can afford to have wall Snorlax. Superpower is by far preferred, OHKOing Heatran, Tyranitar, Blissey, and Chansey. However, Wild Charge hits Tentacruel, Jellicent, Vaporeon, Slowbro, Politoed, and Skarmory hard. Keep in mind, however, that Skarmory can easily outspeed Snorlax and Roost to recover its HP while preventing Wild Charge from hitting it super effectively.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs provided enable Snorlax to survive two Draco Meteors from Latios or a Focus Blast from Modest Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus at full health. An alternative EV spread with 40 HP EVs and 40 Defense EVs allows Snorlax to survive a Crunch from Choice Band Tyranitar; other EV spreads that sacrifice power for more bulk are also usable. Earthquake is a viable alternative to Superpower because of its lack of stat drops, but inferior coverage and the prevalence of Ground-immune Pokemon in OU makes it easily set up on. Selfdestruct hits frighteningly hard, doing ridiculous damage to even the bulkiest of Pokemon. Sadly, it is illegal with Pursuit, but Selfdestruct is so insanely powerful that it is definitely worth consideration. Body Slam can spread paralysis, but the power drop from Return is significant.</p>

    <p>If Double-Edge is used, Wish support is vital for Snorlax's survival. Jirachi can not only provide that support but also set up Stealth Rock, spread paralysis, tank Dragon-type attacks, and lift some of the burden of taking special attacks off of Snorlax. Latias can also provide Wish support and has an immunity to Ground-type attacks as well as resistances to Water, Fighting, and Fire, which are the few types that aren't covered between Jirachi and Snorlax. A solid answer for Fighting-types is also necessary. Specially defensive Celebi can wall Keldeo and can consistently switch into non-Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, while Landorus-T provides a better response to Terrakion and can also deal with Scizor. Both of these Pokemon can set up Stealth Rock and have a slow U-turn, which is useful for bringing Snorlax in safely; Celebi can even provide paralysis support. Entry hazards are of great help to Snorlax on the opposing team's side of the field, and problematic for Snorlax should they be set up against it. The best partner to set up Spikes is Roserade because it can combat Keldeo, Rotom-W, and other Water-types very effectively. Taking rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks is difficult for Snorlax, and Roserade can do so with ease. Ferrothorn and Skarmory are also usable, but Skarmory cannot withstand special Water-type attacks, and neither can handle Keldeo. Rapid Spin support is also important to allow Snorlax to tank the attacks it is EVed to survive. Starmie, Tentacruel, and Forretress are the most effective spinners; choose the one that best complements your team's synergy. It is also best to have a Pokemon that can take the repeated physical blows that will wear down Snorlax; Skarmory and Jellicent can help mitigate the threat of physical attackers. As with all Pokemon in OU, it is best to have Snorlax in a weather that benefits it. Snorlax can patch up some common weaknesses of sun teams and enjoys the boost to Fire Punch, but Snorlax is also usable in rain, although Fire Punch's effectiveness will be diminished.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Two classic sets have all but disappeared from today's metagame: the famed CurseLax, and RestTalk Whirlwind. Neither of these sets are able to keep up with the fast-paced nature of BW OU. An attacking set with Expert Belt, Lum Berry, Chople Berry, or Leftovers over Choice Band can be viable, but the main issue of such a set is the power decrease; without Choice Band, Snorlax is too weak to be effective. A gimmicky set with Stockpile, Belly Drum, and ChestoRest has the potential to make Snorlax into a dangerous bulky sweeper, but is incredibly unrealistic to pull off. A set of Protect, Whirlwind, Body Slam, and Refresh is usable to spread paralysis and scout while staying free of status conditions. Three moves worthy of consideration are Fire Blast, which exploits Skarmory's and Forretress's low Special Defense, Counter, which can hit unwary physical attackers back hard, and Rock Slide, which can OHKO even bulky Volcarona.</p>

    <p>It must be emphasized that under no circumstances should one use Immunity or Gluttony over Thick Fat; Thick Fat is key to Snorlax's success. Without Thick Fat, Snorlax loses its main selling point as a check to sun teams, its only real niche in OU.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>One of the best ways to deal with Snorlax is to pack a powerful Fighting-type such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, or Conkeldurr. Terrakion is preferred because it resists Snorlax's STAB, but all of them can at least threaten Snorlax once they manage to switch in. Snorlax can also be worn down through residual damage. Status is the best way of doing so, particularly Toxic and burn&mdash;Rotom-W, Jellicent, and Tentacruel are your best bets for inflicting such conditions. Entry hazards and Leech Seed also limit the amount of time Snorlax will be able to spend in action. Rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks from Pokemon such as Keldeo and Rotom-W are your best bets for 2HKOing Snorlax with a special move. Hammering Snorlax with strong physical attacks from Pokemon such as Landorus-T will also do the trick.</p>

    <p>There are bulkier, more reliable counters for Snorlax. The most prominent of these is Skarmory, who cannot be 2HKOed by any move besides Wild Charge and can set up Spikes or stall with Roost. Another good counter is Jellicent, who also cannot be 2HKOed by any move besides Wild Charge and is immune to Normal-type attacks. Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and Gliscor are other Pokemon that work nicely, all of which are able to set up Stealth Rock and potentially inflict Snorlax with status. Snorlax is also vulnerable to being set up on by bulky setup sweepers, such as Latias and Dragonite. Overall, Snorlax isn't a difficult Pokemon to counter by any means, so it shouldn't be much trouble unless one is horrifically under-prepared for it.</p>
  21. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    that's quite a few changes but it all sounds better, thanks!
  22. Redew

    Redew Play Star Wars: The Old Republic with me! (PM me)
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    Stamping Woodchuck's with a few additions:

    Overview

    • The current metagame is too fast-paced for the once god(hyphen)like CurseLax to achieve much of anything, and the prevalence of rain allows any Pokemon with a powerful Water STAB to rip Snorlax apart.


    Other Options

    • Three moves worthy of consideration are Fire Blast, which exploits Skarmory's and Forretress's low Special Defense(semi-colon) Counter, which can hit unwary physical attackers back hard(semi-colon) and Rock Slide, which can OHKO even bulky Volcarona.


    I know Woodchuck knows this, but when you are making a list and you want to explain what's there, separate the items using a semi-colon instead of another comma, because it makes it a bit confusing.


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  23. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    made your changes redew, that should do it

    this is ready for upload
  24. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I gave this a thorough check and edited a few things. I had tone down the analysis down a little bit, but for the most part this was pretty good. Keep it up :]

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