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Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Jorgen, May 14, 2013.
The unspoken words are "change the meta detrimentally". Which is in question.
When I said snorlax is more effective than uber's it's more of a personal opinion and I wasn't trying to make a big point about it. His normal type, sweet movepool, and near uber stats have always made me think of snorlax as equal to mewtwo/mew, maybe better than lugia and ho-oh. Haha celery...really it's an uber?
Anyway, it's hard to tell what would change in the tiers if snorlax was banned. I was just saying it's possible that banning snorlax may make someone, such as alakazam, as you said, on every team the way snorlax is now. It's just speculation.
Yes it sounds absurd that I think snorlax is uber and shouldn't be banned. It's even more absurd to want to ban him given that gsc's meta has been untouched for over a decade. There must be at least 4 more generations now to play in. Snorlax is gsc. If someone from 2004 came back today to enjoy nostalgia and have a gsc battle, do you think hearing "no snorlax" will resonate a positive note in them?
Agree, but only to recent generations. Changing an old long-lasting meta, as faulty as it may be, is going to anger a lot of people who grew up playing that meta.
Good point. The question is, will such a change really bring more newer gen players back to gsc than current gsc players leaving in disgust? It's difficult to tell. I'd think no, but I'd rather hear your reasons before I explain mine.
Would a 'no-snorlax' clause be a good compromise for both sides in this argument? If such a clause does create a more fun metagame, then people who support snorlax might move over on their own. Banning snorlax from here would be attainable.
I think the entrance barrier to GSC would be lowered since Snorlax requires you to either be expert-level in dealing with it or to simply be bad at GSC. So in that sense I feel like it makes the game more accessible.
Whether or not it affects the player base significantly is not really my main concern though. If there's sufficiently-publicized tournaments for it, there will be players. It's more or less for game balance, which Snorlax royally screws with.
CurseLugia is CurseLax, except that it gets Recover. :|
Originally it wasn't, but it was eventually banned.
Your only argument is that GSC is too old to change. I won't really argue with you on that point because it's a pointless argument, but you might want to add a bit of meat to it.
That being said a Snorlax banned tourney seems like a logical step, to test it's effect on the metagame.
One tournament doesn't establish a meta. You need at least two or three, to give people a chance to feel out what does and doesn't work. The GSC meta with Snorlax is so defined by Snorlax that removing Snorlax would necessitate fundamental rethinks rather than minor adjustments.
If it needs to be banned, it needs to be banned. Now, I don't think it needs to be banned but it's not staying unbanned simply because hurr durr the metagame is too old to change. :[
it ain't gonna make any more or fewer people play anyway
the time to ban snorlax was before zapdos/raikou were allowed to get hp
I agree. We should suspect Snorlax because there are very few scenarios in which a team can't afford to run Snorlax. It fits on 99% of all teams.
apart from the fact that gen 2 has ended over 10 years now and it might be a bit late for a suspect test, i would appreciate a suspect test for Snorlax, assuming the Gsc community is big enough to actually have a decent suspect ladder, etc. No other metagame is centralized towards one pokemon as much as Gen 2 OU, and none is dominated that much by it. Snorlax is overpowered in Gen 2, it's just the way it is, and it is one of the most versatile pokemon making it hard to build a team that checks all variants of snorlax (without knowing which one you are facing in a specific battle the first place) and still following your own strategy, covering other threats, etc.
I mean i don't think i have to elaborate why and how overpowered and centralizing Snorlax is, everyone who has played a couple of GSC matches knows it and has experienced it. It would be interesting to know how a meta without snorlax would be like, if snorlax is really the only thing that "allows offensive play" in gsc. And i would like to know how and even if a suspect test on this would happen.
Well there's never going to be a suspect test or anything, but I WILL be hosting a non-Lax GSC tournament in the tournaments subforum in the near future for anyone who wants to play competitively in a format without Lax.