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Snorlax(QC 2/2 GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Biosci, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>Snorlax instantly appeals as a powerful defensive Pokemon, boasting 165 / 65 / 110 Defenses. However, a weakness to Fighting-type attacks, accompanied by low physical bulk, leaves Snorlax as easy prey to the common Fighting-type attacks in VGC. But do not fear; Snorlax has access to many hard hitting physical moves and a useful ability for VGC in Thick Fat. Snorlax also has an extremely a low base 30 speed, and while this may seem to be a terrible weakness, it can be abused when under Trick Room. Remember to play to Snorlax's strengths, and you will find it tearing up your opponents in no time.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Trick Room Attacker
    move 1: Return
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Crunch / Fire Punch
    move 4: Protect
    item: Chople Berry / Normal Gem
    nature: Brave
    ability: Thick Fat
    evs: 12 HP / 252 Att / 60 Def / 180 SpDef
    ivs: Spe 0

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is intended for use under Trick Room, where Snorlax can outspeed and tear through most frail opponents. Return is used to utilize one of Snorlax's strongest STABs, excluding Double-Edge. Earthquake is a prime choice for the second slot, dealing solid damage to Steel-types that resist Return, as well as being a spread move. However, be careful not to hurt teammates when using this. Crunch helps Snorlax defeat common Ghost- and Psychic-type threats such as Cresselia and Jellicent. These Pokemon tend to be nightmares for any Trick Room team, as they have the ability to set up a Trick Room of their own, effectively ruining Snorlax's chance of outpacing its opponents. Fire Punch can be useful against hail threats, while helping Snorlax defeat opponents that resist or are immune to its other attacks, such as Bronzong. Protect is used in the fourth slot as a multipurpose move; it can allow Snorlax to stall to some extent, aid against Fake Out users, and scout.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The item here comes down to personal preference; however, here are some useful calculations, showing common instances where Chople Berry is useful with the given EV spread:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>252Atk lvl 50 Hitmontop (+Atk) Close Combat vs 12HP/60Def Chople Berry Thick Fat lvl 50 Snorlax (Neutral): 49% - 58% (118 - 139 HP).</li>
    <li>252Atk Fight Gem lvl 50 Hitmontop (+Atk) Close Combat vs 12HP/60Def Chople Berry Thick Fat lvl 50 Snorlax (Neutral): 74% - 87% (177 - 208 HP).</li>
    <li>252Atk lvl 50 Terrakion (Neutral) Close Combat vs 12HP/60Def Chople Berry Thick Fat lvl 50 Snorlax (Neutral): 55% - 65% (132 - 156 HP)</li>
    <li>252Atk Fight Gem lvl 50 Terrakion (Neutral) Close Combat vs 12HP/60Def Chople Berry Thick Fat lvl 50 Snorlax (Neutral): 83% - 98% (198 - 234 HP).</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Chople Berry is definitely an excellent choice, letting Snorlax survive almost anything Terrakion can throw at it. The given EVs are used to give Snorlax as much bulk as possible. Snorlax's HP stat is large and needs little investment, while the Attack EVs are used to let Snorlax hit as hard as possible. The Defense EVs help with taking some Fighting-type attacks, as long as Snorlax is using a Chople berry. The Special Defense EVs help Snorlax survive against specially based attacks, such as a Thunderbolt from Zapdos or Thundurus. A Brave nature is used to optimize Snorlax's Attack stat, while lowering speed; in conjunction with 0 Speed IVs, Snorlax becomes as potent in Trick Room as possible. Snorlax's ability also comes down to preference. Thick Fat gives Snorlax resistances to Fire- and Ice-type attacks, such as Heat Wave and Blizzard, whilst Immunity stops Snorlax from becoming Poisoned. Thick Fat is usually the superior option, though watch out for being Burned or Frozen from those typed attacks.</p>

    <p>Ghost-type Pokemon act as great support to Snorlax, as they are able to switch in on Fighting-type moves that could potentially KO it. Trick Room, as said before, is a must for Snorlax to function properly. Pokemon with the Telepathy ability can make decent partners for Snorlax, allowing him to fire off moves like Earthquake and Selfdestruct without worry of hurting his partner. Musharna is a great partner with this ability. In fact, Psychic-type Pokemon in general can make excellent partners for Snorlax. He makes great use of being paired with Pokemon such as Reuniclus, Musharna, and Cresselia; they all can set up Trick Room for Snorlax, and each can proceed to do something extra to help Snorlax out. Cresselia and Musharna can provide Helping Hand support for Snorlax, while Reuniclus can help Snorlax take down the opponent's team once Trick Room is up. All three of them can hit annoying Fighting-types for super effective damage with Psychic-type STAB attacks. Most Ghost-types who can provide the same Helping Hand + Trick Room support have a tough time taking out Fighting-types, making Psychic-types better suited for this role. Follow Me and Rage Powder users are nice to have, as they can absorb strong Fighting-type blows that could potentially KO Snorlax. Capable users of these moves include Amoonguss, Parasect, and Togekiss.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Superpower is a solid option for scoring some KOs against most Steel- and Rock-types, as well as opposing Snorlax who don't invest heavily in Defense. Sitrus Berry could be a viable item for gaining instant recovery after taking some hits or getting HP back after Belly Drum. Although setting up in VGC can be dangerous, if you can predict your opponent double Protecting to stall out Trick Room, Snorlax can use Belly Drum and go in for a KO on the next turn. Selfdestruct is a very powerful STAB move that Snorlax has. Combined with a Normal Gem boost, you can almost always get a KO on Pokemon who don't either resist it, have immunities to it, or use Protect when predicting it. Body Slam can be used as a good STAB in place of Return, and the possibility of paralysis can be useful. Chesto Berry can be used with Rest, letting Snorlax regain full health mid game and survive longer.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>In this metagame, one of the most common types used is Fighting. These Pokemon can be a huge problem for Snorlax, often stopping his sweeping short and outright destroying him with their super effective STAB moves. Chople Berry Tyranitar is a threat, especially if it carries Low Kick or Superpower, as the best Snorlax can throw at it is Superpower. Even worse, after using Superpower to get rid of the Chople berry, Snorlax has pretty much nothing else to attack Tyranitar with, who can then KO Snorlax with its own Low Kick. Metagross is often problematic as well, even with Earthquake and Trick Room up.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Snorlax gets Gluttony from the DW. When this ability is released, it probably won't do much to help Snorlax until th pinch berries are released. Even then, it isn't very good.</p>
  2. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    Have at it QC =]
  3. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
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    A couple of things:

    -A lot of Pokemon used on Rain teams aren't actually weak to Electric Attacks. Also, Return will do more damage to them than ThunderPunch.

    -Protect, SelfDestruct, and Belly Drum could use some mentioning somewhere in the write-up.

    -Tyranitar usually don't run SuperPower, but they do run Low Kick. Which is probably worse for Snorlax.

    -Gluttony is currently useless when you realize that the only Pinch Berrys accessable are Lansat and Starf. But might be interesting whenever we get Custap.
  4. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    Fixed and thanks, writing this up I completely forgot about Low Kick's existence :x
  5. Eraddd

    Eraddd One Pixel
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    Fire Punch is a 3HKO on 252 HP Metagross. I'd say that's pretty worthless. It also has a small chance of 2HKOing Bronzong. I'd say Fire Punch isn't as useful and you're going to need better avenues of dealing damage to these Steel-types.
  6. Biosci

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    Thing is, aside from Earthquake, Snorlax has no other moves to hit Metagross, Bronzong, or other steels that might only take neutral damage from Superpower. I'll slash Fire Punch with Earthquake in that slot.
  7. JRank

    JRank
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    -Move Superpower to OO, it's not really helping against anything but other Snorlax

    -Give Fire Punch its own slot; does damage to Metagross and did someone forget about ABOMASNOW

    -Slash Crunch behind Earthquake, it's (Crunch) really only good for Cress and Chandy which your team should be able to handle regardless

    -Protect in the last slot because it's Protect and this is VGC, and slash Selfdestruct behind it because even with the nerf when you use Normal Gem it still kills stuff

    -Items should be Chople Berry / Normal Gem, if Snorlax wants to take a Fighting move it better have Chople, and Normal Gem powers up either Return or Selfdestruct way more than Silk Scarf

    -EV spread should be 12 HP / 60 Def / 252 Atk / 180 SpD, takes a LO CC Terrakion + sandstorm damage, and 2 Latios Draco Meteor (assuming one is Dragon Gem and one is -2) 4 leftover EVs but they don't raise any stat

    -Put Zen Headbutt in OO to get a little more damage on Hitmontop
  8. Biosci

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    Changes made(I can't believe I forgot Zen Headbutt -___-) Anything else I missed?
  9. JRank

    JRank
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    Rename the set "Trick Room Attacker" and put a space in between slashes like this: Earthquake / Crunch. Put Fire Punch as the second move instead of Earthquake. We found a better EV spread that I had to edit with, it's 12 HP / 60 Def / 252 Atk / 180 SpD, use it instead. Mention Cresselia and Musharna as partners, set up Trick Room and are immune to EQ / Selfdestruct (only EQ in Cresselia's case). Do all that and QC 1 / 2
  10. Biosci

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    All changes made, thanks for the check :)
  11. Solace

    Solace darling i'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream
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    i dont think set up moves are the best idea for snorlax (or most vgc pokemon) so i'd take out belly drum

    for teammates, i'd mention some follow me/rage powder pokemon to take fighting moves and priority that may be used against snorlax
  12. Biosci

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    Changes made
  13. Solace

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    i think rest deserves an OO mention with chesto berry
  14. Biosci

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    Made mention of it
  15. cosmicexplorer

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    In your Chople calcs, switch Adamant Terrakion to Jolly, remove Mach Punch Hitmontop, and add Fight Gem and non-Fight Gem Adamant Hitmontop's Close Combat. The set should also look like this:

    move 1: Return
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Crunch / Fire Punch
    move 4: Protect

    Selfdestruct should be in OO, as well as Sitrus Berry (excellent longevity against rain and other strong special attacks) and Belly Drum (it's really powerful and not too hard to set up). Zen Headbutt hits Fighting-types only very slightly harder than Return, so it's useless, as are Ice Punch and Pursuit.

    Mention that Psychic-types in particular make excellent partners, doing huge damage to the Fighting-types that plague Snorlax. You've mentioned Musharna and Cresselia, but haven't specifically enumerated why to use them over Dusknoir. Reuniclus is also a cool partner.
  16. Biosci

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    Added, fixed, and expanded. Though some of the stuff you wanted me to take out was told to be put in from other QC members. Thanks for the check =D
  17. Solace

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    QC 2/2

    after talking on irc with other qc members i think this is pretty good
  18. Biosci

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    Thanks for the check, Ready for GP now =D
  19. Shame That

    Shame That night after night
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    Eheh.. placeholder.
  20. GatoDelFuego

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    Amateur GP Check!
    Removals in RED, changes in BLUE
    My first amateur GP check, probably a few mistakes there.
  21. Shame That

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    Gato, I obviously must not have made myself clear enough.. I reserved the GP check on this. Also, you missed quite a fair amount of errors. Sorry, but I'm askin the OP not to implement that.

    This is partly my fault for not being clear enough, but I wasn't expecting this. Sorry Gato.
  22. Biosci

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    Okay I'll wait for your check. Sorry Gato =[ Thanks for the check when it's done Shame That =D
  23. Shame That

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    REMOVE ADD COMMENTS
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    Whew, done. Sorry for the dramas back there.

    Now, while you had solid information here, most of the prose was quite lacking in quality, so I had to change it up a bit. You did a good job overall, just work on the sentence structure and the casual tone.

    [​IMG]

    IT'S FINALLY 1/2
  24. Biosci

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    Alright thank you, most of the comments are regarding stupid things I forgot to take out when fixing up the set during QC, sorry if it messed you up a bit :L Check implemented. Thanks for my check and stamp, hopefully I can have this finished sometime tomorrow :D
  25. GatoDelFuego

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    That's my fault...although, that comment was posted JUST as I was writing the check...sorry about that.

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