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Snorlax [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Ernesto, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. kokoloko

    kokoloko &McMeghan: chef koko seasoning his games with some salt
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    Ok, it seems there's a bit of an issue here. Some people think offensive CurseLax is better and some think defensive is better--the thing is they play differently. Personally, I don't think defensive CurseLax is even viable anymore, because the Rest mechanics practically take away all of its early-game utility (as in, if it get worn down and forced to Rest, it's dead), but I trust reach and Jabba's judgement enough to do the following:

    Ernesto, you're going to have to write up a second Curse set. I know its a pain in the ass, but they play differently.

    Offensive CurseLax aims to get only 1-2 Curses and then start thrashing shit, not pull off a clean sweep. Defensive CurseLax, on the other hand, is meant to be a pivot early-game, then sweep late-game when the opportunity presents itself.

    The set you presented above is a weird hybrid that won't work in practice because you have offensive EVs with defensive moves, so let's fix that.

    name: Offensive Curse
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Return
    move 3: Crunch
    move 4: Earthquake / Fire Punch
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 80 HP / 176 Atk / 92 Def / 156 SpD

    name: Classic CurseLax
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Body Slam
    move 3: Crunch / Earthquake
    move 4: Rest
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful
    evs: idk, ask reach for his spread and make sure the EVs actually have a purpose.

    In that order. Chesto Berry to OO.

    Hopefully this makes everyone happy.
  2. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    Lol, I was gonna suggest two sets but I thought people wouldn't like it (in fact, my previous post was supposed to say that the set would work if people didn't want two Curse sets, but I had to write it twice due to a problem with the quick reply option and it seems I forgot about it).

    I actually prefer having two sets to avoid having many slashes, which is something that happened in the last analysis. I still think it's hard to pull off Curse without Rest (I've been using that exact Offensive Curse set on my latest team, but it tends to take much damage anyway), but I having think two split sets is the best thing to do

    EDIT: btw, that spread is missing 4 EVs. Should I put them in Special Defense or Attack?

    koko edit: SpD
  3. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    Okay, I finally got around to tweaking the old EV spread on the Classic CurseLax set and I think it's nice. 184 HP / 116 Def / 208 SpD Careful survives a Reckless HJK from ScarfShao after SR and Lefties, while also only being 4HKOed by LO Zapdos and 3HKOed at most by Specs Raikou's Thunderbolts. It isn't near guaranteed to survive 2 Focus Blasts from LO Nidoking, but that's a real hard task anyway, and it's only 4HKOed from Earth Power/Sludge Wave so that should be enough.

    The spread can still be changed, though, but since I haven't received more input on it a decided to finish writing it and then we'll see. Oh, the spread on the CurseLax can also be changed, since it doesn't take special hits all that well, but that set sucks imo so I don't know what we're supposed to go for with it—I've been given to understand that CurseLax was supposed to be a special wall first, so I get it, but I don't know what RestTalk is supposed to be: a mixed wall of a full-blown special wall with some defensive investment?
  4. Nas

    Nas real
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    For Classic Curselax, reverse the order of Crunch and Earthquake. Crunch is only useful against OTR Cofagrigus under certain circumstances, Earthquake will generally be the more useful option. Since the Attack EVs were solely for Crunch, the new EV spread should be 144 Hp / 188 Def / 176 SpD. Once you fix that,

    QC Approved 2/3
  5. Ernesto

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    Did so, thanks RT. I mentioned the alternate spread for when running Crunch though, since it's a good benchmark.

    As I understand it, now I should put this in Copyediting phase and write it up before the last QC check, right? Or does any other QC member have some more input, considering PK's check was a long time ago?
  6. kokoloko

    kokoloko &McMeghan: chef koko seasoning his games with some salt
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    go ahead and write it

    the whole point of doing the last qc check after you write it is to see if there's any more input then lol
  7. Nas

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    The analysis should maintain the Quality Control prefix until it gets the last check.
  8. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    Just thought I'd let you know this was still being worked on. I experienced some difficulties the first couple of weeks, where I had to rewrite a lot of stuff, and then as I came close to finishing it I realized that I'd have to change a lot if Chandy was banned, so I kinda let it be for a while. Apologies in that regard.

    Expect to have this /fully/ written by later today, tomorrow morning at most. Again, I'm sorry it took so long when it's such an important analysis.

    I have to question to an extent Curse + 3 attacks getting a set on its own, I always ended up wishing I had Rest or I was using Protect instead of Curse. However, since it's been approved, I'll still write it, but it never ended up hitting as hard or taking hits as well as I'd hoped.
  9. Ernesto

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    Double post. What do you know, stepping away from Pokemon to dedicate to studying for my exams was the final nodge to get this thing done.

    I have little to no excuse for this, I too am completely stunned for how long it took me to actually begin writing after the first inconvenients previously stated. I couldn't be more sorry, because I knew that this was one of the most important analyses and I really thought I'd be able to get it done earlier. I'm dissappointed because I think of myself as a writer, or at least used to think that.

    After this receives the final QC stamp, I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to get this through GP, as a heads-up, mainly because I won't be coming online too often.
  10. DestinyUnknown

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    I suppose you meant Empoleon...

    QC Approved 3/3
  11. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    Yeah, I dunno why I said Swampert, considering I was talking about Earthquake... I might've mixed it up with what I'd said about Seed Bomb. I'm gonna make a bigger mention of defensive Empoleon, mainly because it packs Roar and Scald, and 0/0 variants dislike boosted Returns, but in reality that Snorlax set will lose to any Empoleon without Earthquake or Rest...

    Thanks for the swift check man, this can now finally go into Copyediting phase!
  12. cbt

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    amateur check

    changes (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Once the King of GSC OU, Snorlax took quite a bunch of hits with every new generation, finally dropping to UU along with its long-time fellow OU Pokemon Zapdos in BW. With the rising popularity of Fighting-types, it struggles to maintain a big presence on the battlefield. Furthermore, a lack of reliable recovery really hurts its durability&mdash;especially with the BW sleep mechanics. However, its amazing HP stat and great special bulk make it one of the few Pokemon able to reliably check a complete offensive spectrum, taking on special powerhouses such as Nidokingqueen or Zapdos. Snorlax is also the most trustworthy answer to Chandelure, one of the biggest threats in the metagame. With its good base 110 Attack stat, it can keep offensive pressure with ease, be it with a Choice Band or by setting up with its oldtried and true Curse set.</p>

    <p>Taking everything previously stated into account, Snorlax continues to be a great addition to any team, capable of performing really well at countering specific prominent threats, such as OTR Cofagrigus or SubCM Raikou. Even though it's much less metagame-defining as it once was, it can take credit for being a staple of the Underused metagame and one of the most used Pokemon overall.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Return / Body Slam
    move 2: Pursuit
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Crunch / Fire Punch
    item: Choice Band / Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 52 Def / 200 SpD / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Offensive Snorlax is very useful on offensive teams, being able to switch into many special attackers and hit them back hard thanks to its fully invested base 110 Attack stat. Return is the main option for a STAB move, being able to hit stuffPokemon such as Shaymin and Zapdos hard; Body Slam is an alternative due to the added paralysis chance, but its damage output makes it the lesser choice. Pursuit is arguably the draw of theis set, allowing Snorlax to remove the Ghost- and Psychic-type Pokemon&mdash;Chandelure being the most notable target, since it fears Earthquake&mdash;that it forces out to possibly open up a path for a partner to sweep. Earthquake lets Snorlax hit Rhyperior and Cobalion, both of which would otherwise get in nearly unscathed to set up on it. For the last slot, the best options are Crunch and Fire Punch: the former hits Cofagrigus hard&mdash;allowing Snorlax to counter the Offensive Trick Room version&mdash;, while hitting Slowbro and Mew harder than anything else, and the latter allows Snorlax to get past Bronzong and Escavalier, and at the same time beating Abomasnow more easily. Fire Punch also hits Shaymin hard in case one opted to run Body Slam over Return.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread maximizes Snorlax's offensive presence while allowing it to avoid the OHKO from a +1 Kingdra's Outrage after Stealth Rock, and the 52 Defense EVs also let it survive two Outrages from Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon around 85% of the time without Stealth Rock on the field. The rest of the EVs go into Special Defense to make better use of its great special bulk, with 4 Speed EVs to get the jump on opposing base 30s such as Slowbro and Cofagrigus. Choice Band is the main item due to the added amount of damage, but Leftovers allow Snorlax to last longer and let it be able to switch moves. While the listed spread is arguably the most effective, an alternate one of 252 Atk / 88 Def / 172 SpD Adamant can be used with Leftovers to ensure Snorlax isn't 2HKOed by Crobat's Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage. Thick fFat is the only ability worth using, since it lets Snorlax be the best answer to Chandelure, one of the hardest hitting Pokemon in the tier; it also allows it to be a last-minute check to physical Fire- and Ice-type Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Victini and Choice Band Weavile.</p>

    <p>Double-Edge is another option for a STAB move, being more powerful than a super effective Crunch, and working decently alongside Snorlax's massive bulk. Without Leftovers though, it'll make Snorlax less able to check special attackers such as Zapdos and Raikou, therefore Return is usually a better option. Ice Punch can be used in the last slot to beat Gligar, though the FlyScorpion Pokemon is faster and can therefore Roost in Snorlax's face. It can work when combined with Leftovers and Body Slam paralysis, though. Seed Bomb is also an alternative to hit Rhyperior harder and beat Swampert one on one. Protect is a great option with Leftovers, giving it extra recovery and scouting for Choice users, especially notable foragainst Fighting-types such as Heracross and Mienshao. Finally, Selfdestruct could be an option due to it being a 200 Base Power STAB move, and it is able to OHKOing Slowbro. However, it faces legality issues alongside Pursuit, the crux of this set.</p>

    <p>When looking for partners, Fighting-types such as Heracross and Mienshao deserve a mention, since they appreciate the removal or weakening of Ghost- and Psychic-types. As Snorlax's only weakness is Fighting, a Pokemon that can absorb those moves with ease also works well. The best examples are Choice Specs Slowbro and Offensive Trick Room Cofagrigus, since they make good switches into Fighting-types and are good on offensive teams. Finally, to guarantee Snorlax will be able to tank hits for most of the match, Rapid Spin support is recommended. Hitmontop and Blastoise are the best for the job, but they are hard to fit into offensive teams, so Magic Bounce Xatu is and option to prevent hazards from being set and keeping the momentum.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive CurseLax
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Return
    move 3: Crunch
    move 4: Earthquake / Fire Punch
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 80 HP / 176 Atk / 96 Def / 156 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Being a staple of the GSC era of Snorlax dominance, Curse SnorlLax continues to be a threat. Taking a more offensive approach to the classic set, this set forfeits Rest in order to get three-move coverage. As such, it shouldn't be seen as a last-Pokemon sweeper but as an early wallbreaker by setting up on the special attackers it easily checks, mainly Chandelure, Zapdos, and Raikou. Curse boosts Snorlax's great Attack and passable Defense stats at the cost of its already low Speed stat. Return is the STAB move of choice, with Crunch to hit Ghost-types&mdash;and hitting Mew and Slowbro harder&mdash;and the last move for specific Pokemon: Earthquake hits Cobalion and Rhyperior harder, while Fire Punch helps against Bronzong and Escavalier, still hitting Cobalion super-effectively.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The EVs allow Snorlax to always survive Choice Scarf Mienshao's Hi Jump Kick and Choice Scarf Heracross's Close Combat at +1, and at the same time avoiding the 2HKO from Choice Band Flygon, while also being able to always take two Thunderbolts from Choice Specs Zapdos. The rest goes into Snorlax's Attack stat to grant it more offensive presence. Adamant is the preferred nature for more power, being able to hit hard with Return even without needing to set up. Double-Edge is an alternative for a STAB move, but the recoil makes it less ablereduces Snorlax's ability to tank special hits. Seed Bomb can be used to beat Rhyperior more reliably, since the latter avoids being 2HKOed by +1 Earthquake without needing to invest into its Defense stat, while also disposing of Blastoise or Swampert that could try to Toxic or Roar Snorlax out. Selfdestruct can be used to get a kill on stuff that prevent a teammate form sweeping, hitting incredibly hard at +1: to get a frame of reference, it deals roughly the same amount of damage to Rhyperior thanas Earthquake, it has a big chance of beating max Defense Blastoise before the latterit can Roar itSnorlax out, and it can even OHKO Slowbro with Spikes support.</p>

    <p>Depending on what Snorlax runs in the last moveslot, it will struggle with specific threats. If it goes for Earthquake, Bronzong and Escavalier will wall it, so Fire-types like Chandelure or Rotom-H are good partners to deal with those walls; whereas if it chooses Fire Punch, it won't stand a chance against Rhyperior and defensive Empoleon&mdash;offensive variants dislike boosted Returns&mdash;, so Shaymin or Choice Specs Slowbro with Trick will be good teammates; the latter will also be able to deal with the Fighting-types that force Snorlax out, specifically Mienshao and Cobalion. Since this set's purpose is to smash things after a boost, having a secondary special tank is a good idea. Rhyperior is excellent therein that regard, as it can bait Zapdos and Raikou into using Hidden Power, letting Snorlax switch in more safely. Nidoqueen is also apt for the job, doing a similar job while at the same time switching into Heracross and Scrafty with ease. Finally, Spikes support can help Snorlax greatly. Froslass and Roserade are the best for that position, the former acting as a spinblocker and the latter absorbing Scalds from bulky Water-types, just as Shayminsuch as Suicune.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Classic CurseLax
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Body Slam
    move 3: Earthquake / Crunch
    move 4: Rest
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful
    evs: 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This acts as the old Curse SnorlLax that dominated a huge part of GSC OU, taking a more defensive approach. This Snorlax has been renowned as one of the most resilient last-Pokemon sweepers, due to only having one weakness that could force a critical hit. While it isn't as good as it once was, considering the offensive nature of the metagame, it can still prove to be a threat. Body Slam is the STAB of choice for the paralysis chance, helping Snorlax boost more reliably. Earthquake or Crunch are the options for coverage moves, the former hitting Rhyperior and Cobalion, and the latter helping against Cofagrigus and Slowbro. Rest allows Snorlax to set up without fear on Zapdos and Raikou, since Snorlax can survive three hits before having to use Rest.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread turns Snorlax into an amazing special tank, avoiding the 3HKO from Life Orb Modest Zapdos and Timid Choice Specs Raikou, while also taking two Surfs from Life Orb Kingdra in Rain. Additionally, the 188 Defense EVs allow it to survive two V-Creates from Jolly Choice Band Victini after Stealth Rock damage. Snorlax can also survive a Hi Jump Kick from Reckless Choice Scarf Mienshao at +1. If running Crunch, an alternate spread of 144 HP / 76 Atk / 112 Def / 176 SpD with a Careful nature can be used to guarantee the OHKO at +1 on 120/0 Chandelure, after ait has switched into Stealth Rock. Chesto Berry is an option over Leftovers to get instant recovery with Rest, although Leftovers are generally better in the long-run. Double-Edge can work over Body Slam with a more offensive spread, since Rest allows Snorlax to not care much about the recoil. Sleep Talk can be used to act as a mono-attacker, provided Snorlax has heavy Pursuit support to take care of Ghost-types. Fire Punch hits all Steel-types, while also beating Shaymin and Abomasnow more reliably; however, Snorlax would be completely walled by Chandelure.</p>

    <p>Since this set struggles with Cobalion and Rhyperior&mdash;the former setting up on Snorlax and the latter being able to phaze it with Dragon Tail&mdash;, especially if it isn't running Earthquake, Slowbro makes for a good partner, taking little from their moves and maybe setting up a Calm Mind on the switch. Cleric support can be used if Snorlax is forced to Rest early and can't stay in, giving it a second chance to set up. Roserade and Togekiss are good options, the former forcing Rhyperior out and being able to set up Spikes or put a Pokemon to sleep, and the latter taking advantage of the removal or weakening of Electric-types. Finally, if not running Crunch, a Pursuit user is helphful to damage Ghost-types that don't mind Earthquake: Guts Heracross and Houndoom are the best options, absorbing Will-O-Wisps due to their abilities.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Body Slam
    move 4: Whirlwind
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful
    evs: 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This was at one point the premier special wall of the Underused metagame, and continues to be useful. Even with the revised sleep mechanics, Snorlax is a viable Rest + Sleep Talk user due to its great natural bulk and access to Whirlwind to phaze away things trying to set up on it. Body Slam is the only attacking move needed, possibly spreading paralysis even while asleep. Whirlwind forces Pokemon out to rack up hazard damage;and it works great alongside Body Slam and Sleep Talk, since it can bypass the negative priority if Snorlax is up against a paralyzed opponent. Rest gives it a way of recovery, while Sleep Talk means it won't be a sitting duck while asleep.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows Snorlax to survive two V-creates from Choice Band Victini, while also not being 3HKOed by Modest Life Orb Zapdos's and Choice Specs Raikou's Thunderbolt. If you dislike the idea of a mono-attacking set, Crunch can be used instead of Sleep Talk or Whirlwind to hit Ghost-types such as Chandelure, while also dealing decent damage to Slowbro and Cofagrigus.</p>

    <p>Since this set is amazing at racking up residual damage, hazard setters are mandatory. Roserade and Froslass are good partners, being able to lay Spikes reliably while also resisting or being immune to Fighting-type moves, respectively. Roserade also learns Aromatherapy, which can be helpful should Snorlax forgo Sleep Talk. Due to the fact that neither can switch into coverage moves from Fighting-types, a main answer to them as well as Rhyperior is of need. Slowbro and Cofagrigus are both great physical walls to take those on, while having offensive presence to not become setup fodder. Slowbro can even take advantage of the paralysis spreading to get a late-game sweep with Calm Mind.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of the moves listed, Snorlax has other options it can run. It can use Rest + three attacks with Chesto Berry for instant recovery, or Belly Drum to mimick its old offensive set from GSC with two attacking moves and Rest, although neither option helps it much, and the huge boost isn't worth losing half its health&mdash;especially considering Snorlax usually takes two hits before moving. Every set can run either one of Double-Edge, Return, or Body Slam as a STAB move, but each has one that goes better with Snorlax's purpose. As for coverage options, it learns Seed Bomb, Zen Headbutt, Ice Punch, Wild Charge, and Superpower, each nailing a different Pokemon. Snorlax also has a good special movepool, with Fire Blast, Thunderbolt, and Blizzard, for example, but its low Special Attack means it's unable to put them to good use. Finally, it has borderline-viable support moves in Toxic, Counter, Yawn, and Stockpile to aid its teammates.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While straight-out countering Snorlax isn't an easy task, Rhyperior is the closest to that position as long as Snorlax isn't running Seed Bomb, since Rhyperior doesn't mind the paralysis and doesn't take much from unboosted Earthquakes, hitting back hard with its own STAB Earthquakes. Rhyperior can also phaze Curse variants, although that can't be relied on for the lategame. Fighting-types such as Cobalion and Heracross can switch in on some sets, but neither enjoy being paralyzed and they are hit hard by the offensive set. Shed Skin Scrafty doesn't mind paralysis and can set up on Snorlax, but it doesn't enjoy taking STAB Returns and it can't beat Snorlax if Scrafty switched in while the former used Curse.</p>

    <p>Tricking a Choice Specs or a Choice Scarf is generally a good way of dealing with Snorlax, since it doesn't enjoy being locked into a move if it isn't the offensive set. Rotom-H and Chandelure are good lures for it, however, the latter needs to worry about Pursuit on the way out. Those two can also lure Snorlax and use Will-O-Wisp, which can mean the end for Snorlax if it doesn't have Rest. Stallbreakers such as Mew, Crobat, and Mismagius can make short work of non-Offensive Snorlax with Taunt, preventing it from using Rest and Curse. However, Crobat fears Return and the other two fear Crunch if they don't know the set, unless they're running Will-O-Wisp too.</p>

    <p>Finally, submitting Snorlax to much offensive pressure is generally a good option, since non-Rest variants become unable to stop Zapdos and Raikou, and Rest variants can be taken advantage of while it's is asleep. Strong special attackers like Nidoking or Choice Specs Yanmega usually do a great job of wearing Snorlax down. Incoming switches need to be wary of Sleep Talk, though.</p>



    c/p (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Once the King of GSC OU, Snorlax took quite a bunch of hits with every new generation, finally dropping to UU along with long-time fellow OU Pokemon Zapdos in BW. With the rising popularity of Fighting-types, it struggles to maintain a big presence on the battlefield. Furthermore, a lack of reliable recovery really hurts its durability&mdash;especially with the BW sleep mechanics. However, its amazing HP stat and great special bulk make it one of the few Pokemon able to reliably check a complete offensive spectrum, taking on special powerhouses such as Nidoqueen or Zapdos. Snorlax is also the most trustworthy answer to Chandelure, one of the biggest threats in the metagame. With its good base 110 Attack stat, it can keep offensive pressure with ease, be it with a Choice Band or by setting up with its tried and true Curse set.</p>

    <p>Taking everything previously stated into account, Snorlax continues to be a great addition to any team, capable of performing really well at countering specific prominent threats, such as OTR Cofagrigus or SubCM Raikou. Even though it's much less metagame-defining as it once was, it can take credit for being a staple of the Underused metagame and one of the most used Pokemon overall.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Return / Body Slam
    move 2: Pursuit
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Crunch / Fire Punch
    item: Choice Band / Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 52 Def / 200 SpD / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Offensive Snorlax is very useful on offensive teams, being able to switch into many special attackers and hit them back hard thanks to its fully invested base 110 Attack stat. Return is the main option for a STAB move, being able to hit Pokemon such as Shaymin and Zapdos hard; Body Slam is an alternative due to the paralysis chance, but its damage output makes it the lesser choice. Pursuit is arguably the draw of this set, allowing Snorlax to remove the Ghost- and Psychic-type Pokemon&mdash;Chandelure being the most notable target, since it fears Earthquake&mdash;that it forces out to possibly open up a path for a partner to sweep. Earthquake lets Snorlax hit Rhyperior and Cobalion, both of which would otherwise get in nearly unscathed to set up on it. For the last slot, the best options are Crunch and Fire Punch: the former hits Cofagrigus hard&mdash;allowing Snorlax to counter the Offensive Trick Room version&mdash;, while hitting Slowbro and Mew harder than anything else, and the latter allows Snorlax to get past Bronzong and Escavalier, and at the same time beating Abomasnow more easily. Fire Punch also hits Shaymin hard in case one opted to run Body Slam over Return.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread maximizes Snorlax's offensive presence while allowing it to avoid the OHKO from a +1 Kingdra's Outrage after Stealth Rock, and the 52 Defense EVs also let it survive two Outrages from Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon around 85% of the time without Stealth Rock on the field. The rest of the EVs go into Special Defense to make better use of its great special bulk, with 4 Speed EVs to get the jump on opposing base 30s such as Slowbro and Cofagrigus. Choice Band is the main item due to the added amount of damage, but Leftovers allow Snorlax to last longer and let it be able to switch moves. While the listed spread is arguably the most effective, an alternate one of 252 Atk / 88 Def / 172 SpD Adamant can be used with Leftovers to ensure Snorlax isn't 2HKOed by Crobat's Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage. Thick Fat is the only ability worth using, since it lets Snorlax be the best answer to Chandelure, one of the hardest hitting Pokemon in the tier; it also allows it to be a last-minute check to physical Fire- and Ice-type Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Victini and Choice Band Weavile.</p>

    <p>Double-Edge is another option for a STAB move, being more powerful than a super effective Crunch, and working decently alongside Snorlax's massive bulk. Without Leftovers though, it'll make Snorlax less able to check special attackers such as Zapdos and Raikou, therefore Return is usually a better option. Ice Punch can be used in the last slot to beat Gligar, though the FlyScorpion Pokemon is faster and can therefore Roost in Snorlax's face. It can work when combined with Leftovers and Body Slam paralysis, though. Seed Bomb is also an alternative to hit Rhyperior harder and beat Swampert one on one. Protect is a great option with Leftovers, giving it extra recovery and scouting for Choice users, especially notable against Fighting-types such as Heracross and Mienshao. Finally, Selfdestruct could be an option due to it being a 200 Base Power STAB move, and it is able to OHKO Slowbro. However, it faces legality issues alongside Pursuit, the crux of this set.</p>

    <p>When looking for partners, Fighting-types such as Heracross and Mienshao deserve a mention, since they appreciate the removal or weakening of Ghost- and Psychic-types. As Snorlax's only weakness is Fighting, a Pokemon that can absorb those moves with ease also works well. The best examples are Choice Specs Slowbro and Offensive Trick Room Cofagrigus, since they make good switches into Fighting-types and are good on offensive teams. Finally, to guarantee Snorlax will be able to tank hits for most of the match, Rapid Spin support is recommended. Hitmontop and Blastoise are the best for the job, but they are hard to fit into offensive teams, so Magic Bounce Xatu is an option to prevent hazards from being set and keeping the momentum.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive CurseLax
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Return
    move 3: Crunch
    move 4: Earthquake / Fire Punch
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 80 HP / 176 Atk / 96 Def / 156 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Being a staple of the GSC era of Snorlax dominance, CurseLax continues to be a threat. Taking a more offensive approach to the classic set, this set forfeits Rest in order to get three-move coverage. As such, it shouldn't be seen as a last-Pokemon sweeper but as an early wallbreaker by setting up on the special attackers it easily checks, mainly Chandelure, Zapdos, and Raikou. Curse boosts Snorlax's great Attack and passable Defense stats at the cost of its already low Speed stat. Return is the STAB move of choice, with Crunch to hit Ghost-types&mdash;and hitting Mew and Slowbro harder&mdash;and the last move for specific Pokemon: Earthquake hits Cobalion and Rhyperior harder, while Fire Punch helps against Bronzong and Escavalier, still hitting Cobalion super-effectively.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The EVs allow Snorlax to always survive Choice Scarf Mienshao's Hi Jump Kick and Choice Scarf Heracross's Close Combat at +1, and at the same time avoiding the 2HKO from Choice Band Flygon, while also being able to always take two Thunderbolts from Choice Specs Zapdos. The rest goes into Snorlax's Attack stat to grant it more offensive presence. Adamant is the preferred nature for more power, being able to hit hard with Return even without needing to set up. Double-Edge is an alternative for a STAB move, but the recoil reduces Snorlax's ability to tank special hits. Seed Bomb can be used to beat Rhyperior more reliably, since the latter avoids being 2HKOed by +1 Earthquake without needing to invest into its Defense stat, while also disposing of Blastoise or Swampert that could try to Toxic or Roar Snorlax out. Selfdestruct can be used to get a kill on stuff that prevent a teammate form sweeping, hitting incredibly hard at +1: to get a frame of reference, it deals roughly the same amount of damage to Rhyperior as Earthquake, it has a big chance of beating max Defense Blastoise before it can Roar Snorlax out, and it can even OHKO Slowbro with Spikes support.</p>

    <p>Depending on what Snorlax runs in the last moveslot, it will struggle with specific threats. If it goes for Earthquake, Bronzong and Escavalier will wall it, so Fire-types like Chandelure or Rotom-H are good partners to deal with those walls; whereas if it chooses Fire Punch, it won't stand a chance against Rhyperior and defensive Empoleon&mdash;offensive variants dislike boosted Returns&mdash;, so Shaymin or Choice Specs Slowbro with Trick will be good teammates; the latter will also be able to deal with the Fighting-types that force Snorlax out, specifically Mienshao and Cobalion. Since this set's purpose is to smash things after a boost, having a secondary special tank is a good idea. Rhyperior is excellent in that regard, as it can bait Zapdos and Raikou into using Hidden Power, letting Snorlax switch in more safely. Nidoqueen is also apt for the job, doing a similar job while at the same time switching into Heracross and Scrafty with ease. Finally, Spikes support can help Snorlax greatly. Froslass and Roserade are the best for that position, the former acting as a spinblocker and the latter absorbing Scalds from bulky Water-types, such as Suicune.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Classic CurseLax
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Body Slam
    move 3: Earthquake / Crunch
    move 4: Rest
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful
    evs: 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This acts as the old CurseLax that dominated a huge part of GSC OU, taking a more defensive approach. This Snorlax has been renowned as one of the most resilient last-Pokemon sweepers, due to only having one weakness that could force a critical hit. While it isn't as good as it once was, considering the offensive nature of the metagame, it can still prove to be a threat. Body Slam is the STAB of choice for the paralysis chance, helping Snorlax boost more reliably. Earthquake or Crunch are the options for coverage moves, the former hitting Rhyperior and Cobalion, and the latter helping against Cofagrigus and Slowbro. Rest allows Snorlax to set up without fear on Zapdos and Raikou, since Snorlax can survive three hits before having to use Rest.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread turns Snorlax into an amazing special tank, avoiding the 3HKO from Life Orb Modest Zapdos and Timid Choice Specs Raikou, while also taking two Surfs from Life Orb Kingdra in Rain. Additionally, the 188 Defense EVs allow it to survive two V-Creates from Jolly Choice Band Victini after Stealth Rock damage. Snorlax can also survive a Hi Jump Kick from Reckless Choice Scarf Mienshao at +1. If running Crunch, an alternate spread of 144 HP / 76 Atk / 112 Def / 176 SpD with a Careful nature can be used to guarantee the OHKO at +1 on 120/0 Chandelure after it has switched into Stealth Rock. Chesto Berry is an option over Leftovers to get instant recovery with Rest, although Leftovers are generally better in the long-run. Double-Edge can work over Body Slam with a more offensive spread, since Rest allows Snorlax to not care much about the recoil. Sleep Talk can be used to act as a mono-attacker, provided Snorlax has heavy Pursuit support to take care of Ghost-types. Fire Punch hits all Steel-types, while also beating Shaymin and Abomasnow more reliably; however, Snorlax would be completely walled by Chandelure.</p>

    <p>Since this set struggles with Cobalion and Rhyperior&mdash;the former setting up on Snorlax and the latter being able to phaze it with Dragon Tail&mdash;, especially if it isn't running Earthquake, Slowbro makes for a good partner, taking little from their moves and maybe setting up a Calm Mind on the switch. Cleric support can be used if Snorlax is forced to Rest early and can't stay in, giving it a second chance to set up. Roserade and Togekiss are good options, the former forcing Rhyperior out and being able to set up Spikes or put a Pokemon to sleep, and the latter taking advantage of the removal or weakening of Electric-types. Finally, if not running Crunch, a Pursuit user is helpful to damage Ghost-types that don't mind Earthquake: Guts Heracross and Houndoom are the best options, absorbing Will-O-Wisps due to their abilities.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Body Slam
    move 4: Whirlwind
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful
    evs: 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This was at one point the premier special wall of the Underused metagame, and continues to be useful. Even with the revised sleep mechanics, Snorlax is a viable Rest + Sleep Talk user due to its great natural bulk and access to Whirlwind to phaze away things trying to set up on it. Body Slam is the only attacking move needed, possibly spreading paralysis even while asleep. Whirlwind forces Pokemon out to rack up hazard damage;and it works great alongside Body Slam and Sleep Talk, since it can bypass the negative priority if Snorlax is up against a paralyzed opponent. Rest gives it a way of recovery, while Sleep Talk means it won't be a sitting duck while asleep.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows Snorlax to survive two V-creates from Choice Band Victini, while also not being 3HKOed by Modest Life Orb Zapdos's and Choice Specs Raikou's Thunderbolt. If you dislike the idea of a mono-attacking set, Crunch can be used instead of Sleep Talk or Whirlwind to hit Ghost-types such as Chandelure, while also dealing decent damage to Slowbro and Cofagrigus.</p>

    <p>Since this set is amazing at racking up residual damage, hazard setters are mandatory. Roserade and Froslass are good partners, being able to lay Spikes reliably while also resisting or being immune to Fighting-type moves, respectively. Roserade also learns Aromatherapy, which can be helpful should Snorlax forgo Sleep Talk. Due to the fact that neither can switch into coverage moves from Fighting-types, a main answer to them as well as Rhyperior is of need. Slowbro and Cofagrigus are both great physical walls to take those on, while having offensive presence to not become setup fodder. Slowbro can even take advantage of the paralysis spreading to get a late-game sweep with Calm Mind.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of the moves listed, Snorlax has other options it can run. It can use Rest + three attacks with Chesto Berry for instant recovery, or Belly Drum to mimic its old offensive set from GSC with two attacking moves and Rest, although neither option helps it much, and the huge boost isn't worth losing half its health&mdash;especially considering Snorlax usually takes two hits before moving. Every set can run either one of Double-Edge, Return, or Body Slam as a STAB move, but each has one that goes better with Snorlax's purpose. As for coverage options, it learns Seed Bomb, Zen Headbutt, Ice Punch, Wild Charge, and Superpower, each nailing a different Pokemon. Snorlax also has a good special movepool, with Fire Blast, Thunderbolt, and Blizzard, for example, but its low Special Attack means its unable to put them to good use. Finally, it has borderline-viable support moves in Toxic, Counter, Yawn, and Stockpile to aid its teammates.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While straight-out countering Snorlax isn't an easy task, Rhyperior is the closest to that position as long as Snorlax isn't running Seed Bomb, since Rhyperior doesn't mind the paralysis and doesn't take much from unboosted Earthquakes, hitting back hard with its own STAB Earthquakes. Rhyperior can also phaze Curse variants, although that can't be relied on for the lategame. Fighting-types such as Cobalion and Heracross can switch in on some sets, but neither enjoy being paralyzed and they are hit hard by the offensive set. Shed Skin Scrafty doesn't mind paralysis and can set up on Snorlax, but it doesn't enjoy taking STAB Returns and it can't beat Snorlax if Scrafty switched in while the former used Curse.</p>

    <p>Tricking a Choice Specs or a Choice Scarf is generally a good way of dealing with Snorlax, since it doesn't enjoy being locked into a move if it isn't the offensive set. Rotom-H and Chandelure are good lures for it, however, the latter needs to worry about Pursuit on the way out. Those two can also lure Snorlax and use Will-O-Wisp, which can mean the end for Snorlax if it doesn't have Rest. Stallbreakers such as Mew, Crobat, and Mismagius can make short work of non-Offensive Snorlax with Taunt, preventing it from using Rest and Curse. However, Crobat fears Return and the other two fear Crunch if they don't know the set, unless they're running Will-O-Wisp too.</p>

    <p>Finally, submitting Snorlax to much offensive pressure is generally a good option, since non-Rest variants become unable to stop Zapdos and Raikou, and Rest variants can be taken advantage of while its is asleep. Strong special attackers like Nidoking or Choice Specs Yanmega usually do a great job of wearing Snorlax down. Incoming switches need to be wary of Sleep Talk, though.</p>
  13. relaunched

    relaunched

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
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    Another amateur check.

    removal addition comment

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    [Overview]

    <p>Once the King of GSC OU, Snorlax took quite a bunch of hits with every new each subsequent generation, finally dropping to UU along with its long-time fellow Zapdos in BW. With the rising popularity of Fighting-types, it struggles to maintain a big presence on the battlefield. Furthermore, lack of reliable recovery really hurts its durability&mdash;especially with the BW sleep mechanics. However, its amazing HP stat and great special bulk make it one of the few able to reliably check a complete offensive spectrum, taking on powehouses powerhouses such as Nidoking or Zapdos. Snorlax is also the most trustworthy answer to Chandelure, one of the biggest threats in the metagame. With its good base 110 Attack stat, it can keep offensive pressure with ease, be it with a Choice Band or by setting up with its old Curse set.</p>

    <p>Taking everything previously stated into account, Snorlax continues to be a great addition to any team, capable of performing really well at very capably countering specific prominent threats, such as OTR Cofagrigus or SubCM Raikou. Even though it's much less metagame-defining as than it once was, it can take credit for being is a staple of the Underused metagame and one of the most used Pokemon overall.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Return / Body Slam
    move 2: Pursuit
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Crunch / Fire Punch
    item: Choice Band / Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 52 Def / 200 SpD / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Offensive Snorlax is very useful on offensive teams, being able to switch into many special attackers and hitting back hard thanks to its fully invested base 110 Attack stat. Return is the main option for a STAB move, being able to hit stuff such as doing a lot to Shaymin and Zapdos hard , and the like; Body Slam is an alternative due to the added paralysis chance, but its damage output makes it the lesser choice. Pursuit is arguably the draw of the set, allowing Snorlax to remove the Ghost- and Psychic-type Pokemon&mdash;Chandelure being the most notable target, since it fears Earthquake&mdash;that it forces out to possibly open up a path possibly opening up a path for a partner to sweep. Earthquake lets Snorlax hit Rhyperior and Cobalion, both of which would otherwise get in nearly unscathed to set up on it. For the last slot, the best options are Crunch and Fire Punch: the former hits Cofagrigus hard&mdash;allowing Snorlax to counter the Offensive Trick Room version&mdash;, while hitting Slowbro and Mew harder than anything else, and does more to Slowbro and Mew than any of the other three moves. and the The latter allows Snorlax to get past Bronzong and Escavalier, and at the same time beating Abomasnow more easily. Fire Punch also does best against Shaymin if one uses Body Slam over Return. hits Shaymin hard in case one opted to run Body Slam over Return.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread maximizes Snorlax's offensive presence while allowing it to avoid the OHKO from a +1 Kingdra's Outrage after Stealth Rock, ; the 52 Defense EVs also let it survive two Outrages from Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon around 85% of the time without Stealth Rock on the field. The rest of the EVs go into Special Defense to make better use of its great special bulk, with 4 Speed EVs to get the jump on opposing base 30s such as Slowbro and Cofagrigus. Choice Band is the main item due to the added amount of damage, but Leftovers allow Snorlax to last longer and let it be able to lets it switch moves. While the listed spread is arguably the most effective, an alternative one of 252 Atk / 88 Def / 172 SpD Adamant can be used with Leftovers to ensure Snorlax isn't 2HKOed by non-Choice Band Crobat's Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage. Thick fat is the only ability worth using, since it lets makes Snorlax be the best answer to Chandelure, one of the hardest hitting Pokemon in the tier; it also allows it to be a last-minute check to physical Fire- and Ice-type Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Victini and Choice Band Weavile.</p>

    <p>Double-Edge is another option for a STAB move, being more powerful than a super effective Crunch, and working decently alongside Snorlax's massive bulk. Without Leftovers though, it'll make Snorlax less able to check special attackers such as Zapdos and Raikou Snorlax can't check special attackers such as Zapdos and Raikou as well, therefore Return is usually a better option. Ice Punch can be used in the last slot to beat Gligar, though the FlyScorpion Pokemon is faster and can therefore Roost in Snorlax's face. It can work when combined with Leftovers and Body Slam paralysis, though. Seed Bomb is also an alternative to hit Rhyperior harder and beat Swampert one on one. Protect is a great option with Leftovers, giving it extra recovery and scouting for Choice users, especially notable for Fighting-types such as Heracross and Mienshao. Finally, Selfdestruct could be an option due to it being is an option since it is a 200 Base Power STAB move, OHKOing Slowbro. However, it faces legality issues it can't legally be used alongside Pursuit, the crux of this set.</p>

    <p>When looking for partners, Fighting-types such as Heracross and Mienshao deserve a mention, since they appreciate the removal or weakening of Ghost- and Psychic-types. As Snorlax's only weakness is Fighting, a Pokemon that can absorb those moves with ease also works well. The best examples are Choice Specs Slowbro and Offensive Trick Room Cofagrigus, since they make good switches into Fighting-types and are good on offensive teams. Finally, to guarantee Snorlax will be able to tank hits for most of the match, Rapid Spin support is recommended. Hitmontop and Blastoise are the best for the job, but they are hard to fit into offensive teams, so Magic Bounce Xatu is and option to prevent hazards from being set and keeping the momentum.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive CurseLax
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Return
    move 3: Crunch
    move 4: Earthquake / Fire Punch
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 80 HP / 176 Atk / 96 Def / 156 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Being a A staple of the GSC era of Snorlax dominance, Curse Snorlax continues to be a threat. Taking a more offensive approach to the classic set, this set forfeits Rest in order to get three-move coverage. As such, it shouldn't be seen as a last-Pokemon sweeper but as an early wallbreaker by setting up on the special attackers it easily checks, mainly Chandelure, Zapdos, and Raikou. Curse boosts Snorlax's great Attack and passable Defense stats at the cost of its already low Speed stat. Return is the STAB move of choice, with Crunch to hit Ghost-types&mdash;and hitting Mew and Slowbro harder&mdash;and , Mew and Slowbro harder. tThe last move is for specific Pokemon: Earthquake hits Cobalion and Rhyperior harder, while Fire Punch helps against Bronzong and Escavalier, still hitting Cobalion super-effectively.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The EVs allow Snorlax to always survive Choice Scarf Mienshao's Hi Jump Kick and Choice Scarf Heracross's Close Combat at +1 with one defense boost, at the same time avoiding the 2HKO from Choice Band Flygon's Outrage, while being able to and always take two Thunderbolts from Choice Specs Zapdos. The rest goes into Snorlax's Attack stat to grant it more offensive presence. Adamant is the preferred nature for more power, being able to hit hitting hard with Return even without needing to set up. Double-Edge is an alternative for a STAB move, but the recoil makes it less able to tank special hits. Seed Bomb can be used to beat Rhyperior more reliably, since the latter avoids being 2HKOed by +1 Earthquake without needing to invest into its Defense stat, even without Defense investment. while also disposing of It also disposes of Blastoise or Swampert that could try to Toxic or Roar Snorlax out. Selfdestruct can be used to get a kill on stuff that prevent a teammate form from sweeping, hitting incredibly hard at +1: to get a frame of reference, it deals roughly the same amount of damage to Rhyperior as than Earthquake, it has a big good chance of beating max Defense Blastoise before the latter can Roar it out, and it can even OHKO Slowbro with Spikes support.</p>

    <p>Depending on what Snorlax runs in the its last moveslot, Snorlax it will struggle with specific threats. If it goes for Earthquake, Bronzong and Escavalier will wall it, so Fire-types like Chandelure or Rotom-H are good partners to deal with those walls; whereas if it chooses Fire Punch, it won't stand a chance against Rhyperior and defensive Empoleon&mdash;offensive variants dislike boosted Returns&mdash;, so Shaymin or Choice Specs Slowbro with Trick will be good teammates; the latter will also be able to deal with the Fighting-types that force Snorlax out, specifically Mienshao and Cobalion. Since this set's purpose is to smash things after a boost, having a secondary special tank is a good idea. Rhyperior is excellent there, as it can bait Zapdos and Raikou into using Hidden Power, letting Snorlax switch in more safely. Nidoqueen is also apt for the job, doing a similar job while at the same time switching into Heracross and Scrafty with ease. can do the same job and also switch into Heracross and Scrafty with ease. Finally, Spikes supportcan help helps Snorlax greatly. Froslass and Roserade are the best for that position, the former acting as a spinblocker and the latter absorbing Scalds from bulky Water-types, just as Shaymin as Shaymin does.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Classic CurseLax
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Body Slam
    move 3: Earthquake / Crunch
    move 4: Rest
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful
    evs: 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This acts as the old Curse Snorlax that dominated a huge part of GSC OU, taking a more defensive approach. This Snorlax has been renowned as one of the most resilient last-Pokemon sweepers, due to only having one weakness that could force a critical hit. (Your meaning here isn't clear, please clarify.) While it isn't as good as it once was, considering the offensive nature of the metagame, it can still prove to be a threat. Body Slam is the STAB of choice for the paralysis chance, helping Snorlax boost more reliably. Earthquake or andd Crunch are the options for coverage moves, the former hitting Rhyperior and Cobalion, and the latter helping against Cofagrigus and Slowbro. Rest allows Snorlax to set up without fear on Zapdos and Raikou, since Snorlax can survive three hits before having to use Rest.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread turns Snorlax into an amazing special tank, avoiding the 3HKO from Life Orb Modest Zapdos and Timid Choice Specs Raikou, while also taking two Surfs from Life Orb Kingdra in Rain. Additionally, the 188 Defense EVs allow it to survive two V-Creates from Jolly Choice Band Victini after Stealth Rock damage. Snorlax can also survive a Hi Jump Kick from Reckless Choice Scarf Mienshao at +1. If running Crunch, an alternate spread of 144 HP / 76 Atk / 112 Def / 176 SpD Careful can be used to guarantee the OHKO at +1 on 120/0 Chandelure, after a switch into Stealth Rock. Chesto Berry is an option over Leftovers to get instant recovery with Rest, although Leftovers are generally better in the long-run. Double-Edge can work over Body Slam with a more offensive spread, since Rest allows Snorlax to not care much about the recoil since with Rest, Snorlax doesn't care too much about the recoil. Sleep Talk can be used to act as a mono-attacker, provided Snorlax has heavy Pursuit support to take care of Ghost-types. Fire Punch hits all Steel-types, while also beating Shaymin and Abomasnow more reliably; however, Snorlax would then be completely walled by Chandelure.</p>

    <p>Since this set struggles with Cobalion and Rhyperior&mdash;the former setting up on Snorlax and the latter being able to phaze phazing it with Dragon Tail&mdash;, especially if it isn't running Earthquake,. Slowbro makes for a good partner, taking little from their moves and maybe setting as it takes little from their moves and can set up a Calm Mind on the switch. Cleric support can be used if Snorlax is forced to Rest early and can't stay in, giving it a second chance to set up. Roserade and Togekiss are good options, the former forcing Rhyperior out and being able to set up Spikes or put a Pokemon to sleep, and the latter taking advantage of the removal or weakening of Electric-types. Finally, if not running Crunch, a Pursuit user is helpfhul to damage Ghost-types that don't mind Earthquake: Guts Heracross and Houndoom are the best options, absorbing Will-O-Wisps due to their abilities.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Body Slam
    move 4: Whirlwind
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful
    evs: 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This was at one point the premier special wall of the Underused metagame, and continues to be useful. Even with the revised sleep mechanics, Snorlax is a viable Rest + Sleep Talk user due to its great natural bulk and access to Whirlwind to phaze away things trying to set up on it. Body Slam is the only attacking move needed, possibly spreading paralysis even while asleep. Whirlwind forces Pokemon out to rack up hazard damage; it works great alongside Body Slam and Sleep Talk, since it can bypass the Sleep Talk bypasses the negative priority of Whirlwind, which helps when Snorlax is up against a paralyzed opponent if Snorlax is up against a paralyzed opponent. Rest gives it a way of recovery to recover, while Sleep Talk means it won't be a sitting duck while asleep.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows Snorlax to survive two V-creates from Choice Band Victini, while also not being 3HKOed by Modest Life Orb Zapdos's and Choice Specs Raikou's Thunderbolt. If you dislike the idea of a mono-attacking set, Crunch can be used instead of Sleep Talk or Whirlwind to hit Ghost-types such as Chandelure, while also dealing decent damage to Slowbro and Cofagrigus.</p>

    <p>Since this set is amazing at racking up residual damage, hazard setters are mandatory. Roserade and Froslass are good partners, being able to lay laying Spikes reliably while also resisting or and being immune to Fighting-type moves. Roserade also learns Aromatherapy, which can be helpful should Snorlax forgo Sleep Talk. Due to the fact that Since neither can switch into coverage moves from Fighting-types, a main answer to them as well as Rhyperior is of need. Slowbro and Cofagrigus are both great physical walls to take those on, while having enough offensive presence to not become setup fodder. Slowbro can even take advantage of the paralysis spreading to get a late-game sweep with Calm Mind.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of the moves listed, Snorlax has other options it can run. It can use Rest + three attacks with Chesto Berry for instant recovery, or Belly Drum to mimick its old offensive set from GSC with two attacking moves and Rest, although neither option helps it much, and the huge boost isn't worth losing half its health&mdash;especially considering Snorlax usually takes two hits before moving. Every set can run either one of Double-Edge, Return, or Body Slam as a STAB move, but each has one that goes better with Snorlax's purpose. As coverage options, it learns Seed Bomb, Zen Headbutt, Ice Punch, Wild Charge, and Superpower, each nailing a different Pokemon. Snorlax also has a good special movepool, with Fire Blast, Thunderbolt, and Blizzard, for example, but its low Special Attack means it's unable to put them to good use. Finally, it has borderline-viable support moves in Toxic, Counter, Yawn, and Stockpile to aid its teammates.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While straight-out countering Snorlax isn't an easy task, Rhyperior is the closest to that position as long as Snorlax isn't running Seed Bomb, since Rhyperior doesn't mind the paralysis and doesn't take much from unboosted Earthquakes, hitting back hard with its own STAB Earthquakes. Rhyperior can also phaze Curse variants, although that can't be relied on for this is not reliable in the lategame. Fighting-types such as Cobalion and Heracross can switch in on some sets, but neither enjoy being paralyzed and they are hit hard by the offensive set. (General note, when saying "offensive", there is some ambiguity about whether it is Offensive or Offensive CurseLax. Perhaps you could rework this. One way to do it is to say "offensive sets" instead of "the offensive set". Think about it) Shed Skin Scrafty doesn't mind paralysis and can set up on Snorlax, but it doesn't enjoy taking STAB Returns and it can't beat Snorlax if Scrafty switched in while the former used Curse.</p>

    <p>Tricking Snorlax a Choice Specs or a Choice Scarf is generally a good way of dealing with Snorlax it, since it doesn't enjoy being locked into a move if it isn't the offensive set. (More "offensive" ambiguity.) Rotom-H and Chandelure are good lures for it, however though the latter needs to worry about Pursuit on the way out. Those two can also lure Snorlax and use Will-O-Wisp, which can mean the end for Snorlax if it doesn't have Rest. Stallbreakers such as Mew, Crobat, and Mismagius can make short work of non-Offensive Snorlax with Taunt, preventing it from using Rest and Curse. However, Crobat fears Return and the other two fear Crunch if they don't know the set the possibility of Crunch, unless they're running Will-O-Wisp too.</p>

    <p>Finally, submitting Snorlax to much offensive pressure is generally a good option, since non-Rest variants become unable to stop Zapdos and Raikou, and Rest variants can be taken advantage of while it's is asleep. Strong special attackers like Nidoking or Choice Specs Yanmega usually do a great job of wearing Snorlax down. Incoming switches need to be wary of Sleep Talk, though.</p>


    Edit: no longer amateur.

    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  14. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    OK, thank you both for the checks!! I do have some issues with some of the changes, though.

    Firstly, Nidoqueen over Nidoking seems too subjective, I know Queen sees more usage in 1850 stats, but since I'm talking about power, usage shouldn't be involved, since King has the potential to hit harder than Queen after all.

    Then, in the second check, I don't like some of the changes in wording, for example 'very capably' doesn't sound good enough, I'd rather have 'very aptly' if I'm gonna change it. Other phrases I'm OK with, but I dunno if the way you put them is the best, so I'm gonna reword them myself, if that's ok.

    I'll make the changes later today, thanks again.
  15. NixHex

    NixHex A new vice president erryonce in a while to keep me busy
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    There are quite a few errors here that made me question the quality of the first check. You cannot follow or precede an emdash by a comma and/or a space. That defeats the purpose of the emdash. Also, when referring to sets by their name, you have to spell them out instead of using acronyms (Substitute + Calm Mind, Offensive Trick Room over SubCM and OTR). There is some Speed creep—4 Speed in the Offensive set—that have to be dealt with (see what I did there with the emdashes?). I'll talk to a UU qc member to address it. I'm placeholding check #2 (what of it?)
  16. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    Hang on, I didn't make the changes yet. I thought the fact that I hadn't changed the 0/2 gave it out, I guess I was wrong. However, I'll proceed to call OTR Cofag and SubCM Kou without the acronyms, while I'm at it.

    I really don't get what's wrong with commas after em dashes, I've seen that used a lot outside of this site, but that's the type of thing we'll always have conflicts with (see what I did there with the preposition? That's a much bigger concern for me than commas, but people here don't seem to find that stuff wrong).

    Now I'm not gonna question your knowledge or anything, but since I didn't precisely like your approach, I'm gonna go ahead and ask you: what exactly is wrong with outspeeding min Speed base 30s? You're not aiming to creep on specific sets, just those base 30s that don't invest in Speed–if it had been 8 Speed, then I'd agree with you. I'm asking because Gligar and Slowbro, those being the first to come to mind, also have 4 Spe EVs in some sets—you could argue that they're spare EVs, which doesn't seem to be the case here, then again that spread started out as 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe Adamant.

    If these issues with the GP team—which, mind you, already have plenty of stuff to work on so that the analyses have the same standards, and not the standards of the last checker—continue, then I have no problems with giving up on this analysis. I'm already unhappy with how long it took me to get it here—mostly my fault, of course—so I wouldn't be opposed to that. In fact, I'd asked kokoloko if he wanted to get it through GP for me, but he was unable at the time, so I still have a say here.
  17. NixHex

    NixHex A new vice president erryonce in a while to keep me busy
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    No no no it's fine. The reason I brought up the abbreviations and the emdash issues is because they weren't even caught in the previous check, so regardless of whether or not you made the changes, it's still an error. Don't give up the analysis, it's really good and informative but I just wanted to address errors that were not caught in the first check.

    Also, I talked to koko, keep the 4 Speed EVs. Continue as necessary. Sorry for the mix up.
  18. Ernesto

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    Heh, sorry if that seemed a little harsh, I didn't mean like I was gonna give this up because of our disagreements, but because I can't guarantee to get this through GP if there are stuff to be discussed, since I'm preparing for my exams and I'm gonna move out at the end of this month. The other arguments, although unsettling, I'm up for discussing at any time.

    I think I covered everything between the two checks and your input, NixHex, however I don't think I found more than one em dash error, so I guess the last check should help with that.
  19. NixHex

    NixHex A new vice president erryonce in a while to keep me busy
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    As I promised, I'm doing done with this now.
    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Once the King of GSC OU, Snorlax took quite a bunch of a few hits with each subsequent generation, finally dropping to UU along with long-time fellow OU Pokemon, Zapdos, in BW. With the rising popularity of Fighting-types, it struggles to maintain a big presence on the battlefield. Furthermore, lack of reliable recovery really hurts its durability&mdash;especially with the BW sleep mechanics. However, its amazing HP stat and great special bulk make it one of the few able to reliably check a complete offensive spectrum, taking on special powerhouses such as Nidoking or Zapdos. Snorlax is also the most trustworthy answer to Chandelure, one of the biggest threats in the metagame. With its good base 110 Attack stat, it can keep offensive pressure with ease, be it with a Choice Band or by setting up with its old Curse set.</p>

    <p>Taking everything previously stated into account, Snorlax continues to be a great addition to any team, countering specific prominent threats, such as Offensive Trick Room Cofagrigus or Substitute+Calm Mind Raikou, very aptly. Even though it's much less metagame-defining than it once was, it can take credit for being a staple of the Underused metagame and one of the most used Pokemon overall.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Return / Body Slam
    move 2: Pursuit
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Crunch / Fire Punch
    item: Choice Band / Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 52 Def / 200 SpD / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Offensive Snorlax is very useful on offensive teams, being able to switch into many special attackers and hit back hard thanks to its fully invested base 110 Attack stat. Return is the main option for a STAB move, being able to hit Pokemon such as Shaymin and Zapdos hard; Body Slam is an alternative due to the added paralysis chance, but its damage output makes it the lesser choice. Pursuit is arguably the draw of the set, allowing Snorlax to remove the Ghost- and Psychic-type Pokemon&mdash;Chandelure being the most notable target, since it fears Earthquake&mdash;that it forces out,(space)possibly opening up a path for a partner to sweep. Earthquake lets Snorlax hit Rhyperior and Cobalion, both of which would otherwise get in nearly unscathed to set up on it. For the last slot, the best options are Crunch and Fire Punch:, the former hits hitting Cofagrigus hard&mdash;allowing Snorlax to counter the Offensive Trick Room version&mdash;(remove space)and deals dealing more to Slowbro and Mew than the other three moves;, and the latter allows allowing Snorlax to get past Bronzong and Escavalier, and at the same time while beating Abomasnow more easily. Fire Punch is also good against Shaymin if Snorlax runs Body Slam over Return.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread maximizes Snorlax's offensive presence while allowing it to avoid the OHKO from a +1 Kingdra's Outrage after Stealth Rock,; the 52 Defense EVs also let it survive two Outrages from Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon around 85% of the time without Stealth Rock on the field. The rest of the EVs go into Special Defense to make better use of its great special bulk, with 4 Speed EVs to get the jump on opposing base 30s such as Slowbro and Cofagrigus. Choice Band is the main item due to the added damage output, but Leftovers allow Snorlax to last longer and let it switch moves. While the listed spread is arguably the most effective, an alternate one of 252 Atk / 88 Def / 172 SpD with an Adamant nature can work with Leftovers to ensure Snorlax isn't 2HKOed by non-Choice Band Crobat's Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage. Thick Fat is the only ability worth using, since it allows Snorlax to be the best answer to Chandelure, one of the hardest hitting Pokemon in the tier; it also lets it be a last-minute check to physical Fire- and Ice-type Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Victini and Choice Band Weavile.</p>

    <p>Double-Edge is another option for a STAB move, being more powerful than a super effective Crunch, and working decently alongside Snorlax's massive HP stat. Without Leftovers though, Snorlax won't be able to check special attackers such as Zapdos and Raikou as well due to the recoil, therefore Return is usually a better option. Ice Punch can be used in the last slot to beat Gligar, though the FlyScorpion Pokemon it is faster and can therefore Roost in Snorlax's face. It can work when combined with Leftovers and Body Slam paralysis, though. Seed Bomb is also an alternative to hit Rhyperior harder and beat Swampert one on one. Protect is a great option with Leftovers, giving it extra recovery and scouting for Choice users, especially notable against Fighting-types such as Heracross and Mienshao. Finally, Selfdestruct could be an option due to it being a 200 Base Power STAB move capable of OHKOing Slowbro. However, it faces legality issues alongside with Pursuit, the crux primary weapon of this set.</p>

    <p>When looking for partners, Fighting-types such as Heracross and Mienshao deserve a mention, since they appreciate the removal or weakening of Ghost- and Psychic-types. As Snorlax's only weakness is Fighting, a Pokemon that can absorb those moves with ease also works well. The best examples are Choice Specs Slowbro and Offensive Trick Room Cofagrigus, since they make good switches into Fighting-types and are good on offensive teams. Finally, to guarantee Snorlax will be able to tank hits for most of the match, Rapid Spin support is recommended. Hitmontop and Blastoise are the best for the job, but they are hard to fit into offensive teams, so Magic Bounce Xatu is and option to prevent hazards from being set and keeping the momentum.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive CurseLax
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Return
    move 3: Crunch
    move 4: Earthquake / Fire Punch
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 80 HP / 176 Atk / 96 Def / 156 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>A staple of the GSC era of Snorlax dominance, Curse Snorlax continues to be a threat. Taking a more offensive approach to the classic set, this set forfeits Rest in order to get three-move coverage. As such, it shouldn't be seen as a last-Pokemon sweeper but as an early wallbreaker by setting up on the special attackers it easily checks, mainly Chandelure, Zapdos, and Raikou. Curse boosts Snorlax's great Attack and passable Defense stats at the cost of its already low Speed stat. Return is the STAB move of choice, with Crunch to hit Ghost-types, Mew, and Slowbro harder. The last move is for specific Pokemon: Earthquake hits Cobalion and Rhyperior harder, while Fire Punch helps against Bronzong and Escavalier, still hitting Cobalion super-effectively.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The EVs allow Snorlax to always survive Choice Scarf Mienshao's Hi Jump Kick and Choice Scarf Heracross's Close Combat after one Curse boost, at the same time avoiding the 2HKO from Choice Band Flygon's Outrage, and always take two Thunderbolts from Choice Specs Zapdos. The rest goes into Snorlax's Attack stat to grant it more offensive presence. Adamant is the preferred nature for more power, hitting hard with Return even before setting up. Seed Bomb can be used to beat Rhyperior more reliably, since the latter avoids being 2HKOed by +1 Earthquake without investing into its Defense stat. It also disposes of Blastoise or Swampert that could try to Toxic or Roar Snorlax away. Selfdestruct can work as a secondary STAB move, getting a kill on stuff that prevent a teammate from sweeping, hitting incredibly hard after one Curse: to get a frame of reference, it deals roughly the same amount of damage to Rhyperior as Earthquake, it has a good chance of beating max Defense Blastoise before the latter can Roar Snorlax out, and it can even OHKO Slowbro with Spikes support.</p>

    <p>Depending on Snorlax's last move, it will struggle with specific threats. If it goes for Earthquake, Bronzong and Escavalier will wall it, so Fire-types like Chandelure or Rotom-H are good partners to deal with those walls;. whereas However, if it chooses Fire Punch, it won't stand a chance against Rhyperior and defensive Empoleon&mdash;offensive variants dislike boosted Returns&mdash;,(remove space)so Shaymin or Choice Specs Slowbro with Trick will be good teammates;. The latter will also be able to deal with the Fighting-types that force Snorlax out, specifically Mienshao and Cobalion. Since this set's purpose is to smash things after a boost, having a secondary special tank is a good idea. Rhyperior is excellent in that regard, as it can bait Zapdos and Raikou into using Hidden Power, letting Snorlax switch in more safely. Nidoqueen can perform similarly, and also switch into Heracross and Scrafty with ease. Finally, Spikes support helps Snorlax greatly. Froslass and Roserade are the best for that position, the former acting as a spinblocker and the latter absorbing Scalds from bulky Water-types, such as Suicune.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Classic CurseLax
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Body Slam
    move 3: Earthquake / Crunch
    move 4: Rest
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful
    evs: 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This acts as the old Curse Snorlax that dominated a huge part of GSC OU, taking a more defensive approach. This Snorlax has been renowned as one of the most resilient last-Pokemon sweepers, since its sole weakness makes it harder to KO without random critical hits. While it isn't as good as it once was, considering the offensive nature of the metagame, it can still prove to be a threat. Body Slam is the STAB of choice for the paralysis chance, helping Snorlax boost more reliably. Earthquake and Crunch are the options for coverage, the former hitting Rhyperior and Cobalion, and the latter helping against Cofagrigus and Slowbro. Rest allows Snorlax to set up without fear on Zapdos and Raikou, since Snorlax can survive three hits before having to use Rest.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread turns Snorlax into an amazing special tank, avoiding the 3HKO from Life Orb Modest Zapdos and Timid Choice Specs Raikou, while also taking two Surfs from Life Orb Kingdra in Rain. Additionally, the 188 Defense EVs allow it to survive two V-Creates from Jolly Choice Band Victini after Stealth Rock damage. Snorlax can also survive a Hi Jump Kick from Reckless Choice Scarf Mienshao at +1. If running Crunch, an alternate spread of 144 HP / 76 Atk / 112 Def / 176 SpD with a Careful nature can be used to guarantee the OHKO at +1 on 120/0 Chandelure, after a switch into Stealth Rock. Chesto Berry is an option over Leftovers to get instant recovery with Rest, although Leftovers are generally better in the long-run. Double-Edge can work over Body Slam with a spread of 80 HP / 176 Atk / 96 Def / 156 SpD and an Adamant nature, since with Rest, Snorlax doesn't mind the recoil much. Sleep Talk can be used to act as a mono-attacker, provided Snorlax has heavy Pursuit support to take care of Ghost-types. Fire Punch hits all Steel-types, while also beating Shaymin and Abomasnow more reliably; however, it would prevent Snorlax from hitting Chandelure.</p>

    <p>Since this set struggles with Cobalion and Rhyperior&mdash;the former setting up on Snorlax and the latter phazing it with Dragon Tail&mdash;,(remove space)especially if it isn't running Earthquake, Slowbro makes for a good partner, as it can take little from their moves and even set up on them. Cleric support can be used if Snorlax is forced to Rest early and can't stay in, giving it a second chance to set up. Roserade and Togekiss are good options, the former forcing Rhyperior out and being able to set up Spikes or put a Pokemon to sleep, and the latter taking advantage of the removal or weakening of Electric-types. Finally, if not running Crunch, a Pursuit user is helpful to damage Ghost-types that don't mind Earthquake: Guts Heracross and Houndoom are the best options, absorbing Will-O-Wisps due to their abilities.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Body Slam
    move 4: Whirlwind
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful
    evs: 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This was at one point the premier special wall of the Underused metagame, and continues to be useful. Even with the revised sleep mechanics, Snorlax is a viable Rest + Sleep Talk user due to its great natural bulk and access to Whirlwind to phaze away things trying to set up on it. Body Slam is the only attacking move needed, possibly spreading paralysis even while asleep. Whirlwind forces Pokemon out to rack up hazard damage; it works great alongside Body Slam and Sleep Talk, since the latter bypasses Whirlwind's negative priority when Snorlax is up against a paralyzed opponent. Rest gives it a form of recovery, while Sleep Talk means it won't be a sitting duck while asleep.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows Snorlax to survive two V-creates from Choice Band Victini, while also not being 3HKOed by Modest Life Orb Zapdos's and Choice Specs Raikou's Thunderbolt. If you dislike the idea of a mono-attacking set, Crunch can be used instead of Sleep Talk or Whirlwind to hit Ghost-types such as Chandelure, while also dealing decent damage to Slowbro and Cofagrigus.</p>

    <p>Since this set is amazing at racking up residual damage, hazard setters are mandatory. Roserade and Froslass are good partners, both laying Spikes reliably while also resisting or being immune to Fighting-type moves. Roserade can also run Aromatherapy, which could be helpful should Snorlax forgo Sleep Talk. Since neither can switch into coverage moves from Fighting-types, a main answer to them as well as Rhyperior is of need. Slowbro and Cofagrigus are both great physical walls to take those on, while having enough offensive presence to not become setup fodder. Slowbro can even take advantage of the paralysis spreading to get a late-game sweep with Calm Mind.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of the moves listed, Snorlax has other options it can run. It can use Rest + three attacks with Chesto Berry for instant recovery, or Belly Drum to mimick its old offensive set from GSC with two attacking moves and Rest, although neither option help it much, and the huge boost isn't worth losing half its health&mdash;especially considering Snorlax usually takes two hits before moving. Every set can run either one of Double-Edge, Return, or Body Slam as a STAB move, but each has one that goes better with Snorlax's purpose. As coverage options, it learns Seed Bomb, Zen Headbutt, Ice Punch, Wild Charge, and Superpower, each nailing a different Pokemon. Snorlax also has a good special movepool, with Fire Blast, Thunderbolt, and Blizzard, for example, but its low Special Attack means it's unable to put them to good use. Finally, it has borderline-viable support moves in Toxic, Counter, Yawn, and Stockpile to aid its teammates.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While straight-out countering Snorlax isn't an easy task, Rhyperior is the closest to that position as long as Snorlax isn't running Seed Bomb, since Rhyperior doesn't mind the paralysis and doesn't take much from unboosted Earthquakes, hitting back hard with its own STAB Earthquakes. Rhyperior can also phaze Curse variants, although that isn't as reliable in the lategame. Fighting-types such as Cobalion and Heracross can switch in on some sets, but neither enjoy being paralyzed and they are hit hard by Snorlax's offensive sets. Shed Skin Scrafty doesn't mind paralysis and can set up on Snorlax, but it doesn't enjoy taking STAB Returns and it can't beat Snorlax if Scrafty switched in while the former it used Curse.</p>

    <p>Tricking a Choice Specs or a Choice Scarf is generally a good way of dealing with Snorlax, since only the offensive sets don't mind being locked into a move. Rotom-H and Chandelure are good lures for it, though the latter needs to worry about Pursuit on the way out. Those two can also lure Snorlax and use Will-O-Wisp, which can mean the end for Snorlax if it doesn't have Rest. Stallbreakers such as Mew, Crobat, and Mismagius can make short work of non-Offensive Snorlax with Taunt, preventing it from using Rest and Curse. However, they can't directly switch in without knowing the sets, since Return and Crunch, respectively, hit them hard.</p>

    <p>Finally, submitting Snorlax to much offensive pressure is generally a good option, since non-Rest variants become unable to stop Zapdos and Raikou, and Rest variants can be taken advantage of while asleep. Strong special attackers like Nidoking or Choice Specs Yanmega usually do a great job of wearing Snorlax down. Incoming switches need to be wary of Sleep Talk, though.</p>


    Excellent work.
    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  20. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    Thanks for the check, NixHex! It seems I had missed some em dash/comma situations after all.

    I do have one comment, though:
    What I was trying to get at, maybe poorly phrased, is that a random critical hit couldn't really KO Snorlax—probably weaken it to the point another hit beat it, but it could still survive. So, unless it was a really strong physical hit, such as CB Rhyperior's Stone Edge or CBLax's Return, Snorlax could survive a lone crit. Under the assumption it wasn't super effective, of course. I was trying to differentiate that from something like CM Slowbro, which can boost a lot lategame too, but is much more prone to dying due to its larger number of special weaknesses to break through its boosts.

    How do you think I should put that so it's clear that Snorlax's biggest advantage over other stat boosters is the difficulty to critKO with random hits, therefore being much harder to beat lategame? I know this is similar to CroCune (I don't wanna say Raikou there because it's easier to break on the physical side without crits), but that takes longer to set up and is therefore, imo, on another level—it does have the Pressure advantage, meaning it can waste defensive Roserade's Giga Drain PP before the chances of a crit are big enough.
    Another option is simply deleting that sentence, of course.

    Also, I can't believe I forgot this, but I didn't mention Cofagrigus as a check if Snorlax doesn't have Crunch. While it dislikes boosted Earthquakes, it can set up alongside Snorlax or burn it and delete its boosts with a combination of Will-O-Wisp and Haze. I'll write that out and wait for a third check.

    EDIT: Why exactly is 'mimick' wrong? I looked it up just in case it was one of those AE/BE differences, but apparently they're just alternative forms of one another... I'll do the correction, but I wanna know why, lol.

    Also, here's the blurb (it would go after the Scrafty comment):

  21. NixHex

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    Misunderstanding on my part. Honestly it's not a big deal. If that's what you meant to say, then leave out my correction. Also, American English is the standard throughout our website so mimic is the spelling we are going with.
  22. Ernesto

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    OK, I made the final corrections—including removing the stuff abouts crits since it can be confusing—so I guess this is done.

    Thanks to all who helped me finish this, and one last time, I'm really sorry for taking more than four months to get this onsite. It's a big down for me, I realize that.
  23. kokoloko

    kokoloko &McMeghan: chef koko seasoning his games with some salt
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    is upload

    good job everybody

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