Pokémon Snorlax

[Guggerbunk]

Name: Snorlax
Type: Normal
Ability: Immunity / Thick Fat / Gluttony (HA)
Base Stats: 160 / 110 / 65 / 65 / 110 / 30

Movepool

Level-Up Movepool
Start: Tackle
Lv. 4: Defense Curl
Lv. 9: Amnesia
Lv. 12: Lick
Lv. 17: Chip Away
Lv. 20: Yawn
Lv. 25: Body Slam
Lv. 28: Rest
Lv. 28: Snore
Lv. 33: Sleep Talk
Lv. 36: Rollout
Lv. 41: Block
Lv. 44: Belly Drum
Lv. 49: Crunch
Lv. 50: Heavy Slam
Lv. 57: Giga Impact

Pre-Evolution Moves
Last Resort
Snatch
Metronome
Odor Sleuth
Screech
Stockpile
Swallow
Fling
Natural Gift
Self-Destruct (PokeBank)
Zen Headbutt (PokeBank)

TM and HM Moves
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM13 Ice Beam
TM14 Blizzard
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM23 Smack Down
TM24 Thunderbolt
TM25 Thunder
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM29 Psychic
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team (Illegal)
TM35 Flamethrower
TM37 Sandstorm
TM38 Fire Blast
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM52 Focus Blast
TM56 Fling
TM59 Incinerate
TM67 Retaliate
TM68 Giga Impact
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM93 Wild Charge
TM94 Rock Smash
TM98 Power-Up Punch
TM100 Confide
HM03 Surf
HM04 Strength

Egg Moves
Charm
Double-Edge
Curse
Fissure (Illegal)
Pursuit
Counter
Natural Gift

General Analysis

With the introduction of the Assault Vest (+50% SpD but no status moves allowed) Snorlax once again emerges as a very hard to kill check for many of the premier special attackers of OU. Even with minimal investment his 110 Attack base provides strong enough hits to intimidate and scare off special attackers including Mega Gengar and Volcarona while tanking their punishment better than most could hope. The loss of Leftovers is worth mentioning, though, meaning he needs Wish support if you want him to stick around longer. Additionally Psyshock-carrying attackers and Choice Keldeo with its Secret Sword (assuming its mechanics remain the same in 6th Gen) need to be watched out for.

Possible Movesets

Bulky Special Tank

Snorlax @ Assault Vest
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Nature: Careful / Adamant
- Body Slam / Return
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Pursuit

With such enormous special bulk Snorlax can switch into Mega Gengar and most boosted special attackers while taking minor damage except in the case of Focus Blast from the former, which ranges from a 3HKO to 4HKO depending on the Mega Gengar in play and any hazards. Calculations!

Snorlax's Defensive Calculations versus Mega Gengar

Mega Gengar (Modest, 4HP / 252SpA / 252Spe) against Snorlax (Careful, 252HP / 4Atk / 252SDef @ Assault Vest)

252+ SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 158-188 (30.15 - 35.87%) -- 42.5% chance to 3HKO (guaranteed 3HKO /w SR)
252+ SpA (custom) Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 94-112 (17.93 - 21.37%) -- possible 5HKO (guaranteed 5HKO /w SR)

Mega Gengar (Timid, 4HP / 252SpA / 252Spe) against Snorlax (Careful, 252HP / 4Atk / 252SDef @ Assault Vest)

252 SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 146-172 (27.86 - 32.82%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (89.3% 3HKO /w SR)
252 SpA (custom) Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 85-102 (16.22 - 19.46%) -- possible 6HKO (possible 5HKO /w SR)

Mega Gengar (Modest, 4HP / 252SpA / 252Spe) against Snorlax (Adamant, 252HP / 4Atk / 252SDef @ Assault Vest)

252+ SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252 SpD (custom): 174-206 (33.2 - 39.31%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA (custom) Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 252 SpD (custom): 103-123 (19.65 - 23.47%) -- possible 5HKO (possible 4HKO /w SR)

Mega Gengar (Timid, 4HP / 252SpA / 252Spe) against Snorlax (Adamant, 252HP / 4Atk / 252SDef @ Assault Vest)

252 SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252 SpD (custom): 158-188 (30.15 - 35.87%) -- 42.5% chance to 3HKO (guaranteed 3HKO /w SR)
252 SpA (custom) Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 252 SpD (custom): 94-112 (17.93 - 21.37%) -- possible 5HKO (guaranteed 5HKO /w SR)

Snorlax's Offensive Calculations against Mega Gengar

Snorlax (Careful, 252HP / 4Atk / 252SDef @ Assault Vest) against Mega Gengar (Modest / Timid, 4HP / 252SpA / 252Spe)

4 Atk (custom) Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 78-92 (29.77 - 35.11%) -- 16.82% chance to 3HKO (guaranteed /w SR)
4 Atk (custom) Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 190-224 (72.51 - 85.49%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Gengar switching) 4 Atk (custom) Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 152-180 (58.01 - 68.7%)

Snorlax (Adamant, 252HP / 4Atk / 252SDef @ Assault Vest) against Mega Gengar (Modest / Timid, 4HP / 252SpA / 252Spe)

4+ Atk (custom) Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 84-100 (32.06 - 38.16%) -- 97.46% chance to 3HKO (guaranteed /w SR)
4+ Atk (custom) Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 206-244 (78.62 - 93.12%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (37.5% OHKO /w SR)
(Gengar switching) 4+ Atk (custom) Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 166-196 (63.35 - 74.8%)

Snorlax Defensive Calculations versus Volcarona

Volcarona (Modest, 4HP / 252SpA / 252Spe @ Life Orb) against Snorlax (Careful, 252HP / 4Atk / 252SpD @ Assault Vest)

252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Fire Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat (custom): 40-48 (7.63 - 9.16%) -- 9HKO at best
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Fire Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat (custom): 60-71 (11.45 - 13.54%) -- possible 8HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Fire Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat (custom): 81-95 (15.45 - 18.12%) -- possible 6HKO
+3 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Fire Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat (custom): 100-118 (19.08 - 22.51%) -- possible 5HKO
+4 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Fire Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat (custom): 118-140 (22.51 - 26.71%) -- possible 4HKO
+5 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Fire Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat (custom): 139-164 (26.52 - 31.29%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+6 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Fire Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat (custom): 159-187 (30.34 - 35.68%) -- 37.72% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Bug Buzz vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 66-78 (12.59 - 14.88%) -- possible 7HKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Bug Buzz vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 97-116 (18.51 - 22.13%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Bug Buzz vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 130-153 (24.8 - 29.19%) -- possible 4HKO
+3 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Bug Buzz vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 161-191 (30.72 - 36.45%) -- 64.36% chance to 3HKO
+4 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Bug Buzz vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 194-229 (37.02 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+5 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Bug Buzz vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 227-268 (43.32 - 51.14%) -- 4.69% chance to 2HKO
+6 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Bug Buzz vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 259-305 (49.42 - 58.2%) -- 98.83% chance to 2HKO

Snorlax Offensive Calculations versus Volcarona

Snorlax (Careful, 252HP / 4Atk / 252SpD @ Assault Vest) against Volcarona (Modest, 4HP / 252SpA / 252Spe @ Life Orb)
4 Atk (custom) Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 169-201 (54.16 - 64.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk (custom) Body Slam vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 142-168 (45.51 - 53.84%) -- 40.63% chance to 2HKO
4 Atk (custom) Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 336-396 (107.69 - 126.92%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk (custom) Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 45-54 (14.42 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO
(Volcarona switching) 4 Atk (custom) Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 90-106 (28.84 - 33.97%)

Those are the two main special attackers that I could think of to do damage calcs for. I'll add more calcs if people request them.

A number of other special attackers can be checked by him as well, but most things that do carry Psyshock can be too tough for him to counter, although those things that do counter it need to beware of paralysis from Body Slam, hence it being my preference for the set. While it can take the special attacks of Jellicent and Rotom-W very easily Snorlax does not enjoy being burned with Will-o-Wisp.

Return of the Boomlax

Snorlax @ Assault Vest
Trait: Thick Fat / Immunity
EVs: 76 HP / 180 Atk / 252 SpD
Nature: Adamant
- Power-Up Punch
- Wild Charge
- Earthquake
- Self-Destruct

Self-Destruct isn't what it used to be, but very little likes taking a boosted STAB blast thanks to Power-Up Punch. It allows Snorlax to boost himself with the Assault Vest on and badly injure things that try to check it. Wild Charge is needed to peg Skarmory coming in to phaze and a bulky Gyarados switching into it won't appreciate the damage even after Intimidate. Earthquake provides general cover, pegs Heatran hard, and allows for some mind games depending on how Skarmory wants to go about the encounter, making Roost with him in a possibly dangerous propisition. When Snorlax has done all he can he pulls the pin on himself. A +2 Self-Destruct is guaranteed to OHKO Hippowdon if Stealth Rock is in play. Beware ghost-types switching in to absorb the boom. At the very least Jellicent might not want to switch in since the prospect of taking a boosted Wild Charge is bad for it. Other options for the set, depending on how the metagame develops, are Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Gunk Shot, and Heavy Slam, with the latter two only being remotely worthy of consideration thanks to the new fairy types. I am uncertain where they would slot into the set, but still worth mentioning.

I am open to anybody telling me that my Boomlax set is stupid, or that I am stupid for suggesting it because why don't I know that Selfdestruct was nerfed in D/P. I've always liked Boomlax though and that seems the best way to make use of it.

Checks and Counters

Physical tanks in general (and Skarmory in particular) do a good job of rolling with the rotund one's blows and making him stay away. Depending on the set Rotom-W has the ability to switch in and peg him with a Will-o-Wisp, hampering his own ability to intimidate special attackers with his hits. Without Wish support and/or a cleric on the team Snorlax will be worn down by entry hazards eventually due to a lack of recovery from Leftovers or Rest. While he's more intimidating than he has been for a generation he is still not the monster he once was in GSC.

Conclusion

If you are in need of a special wall that can hit back while still admirably shrugging some of the hardest special hits in the game then head to your nearest bridge and find yourself a Snorlax. I hear that bridges make the best beds.

 

[Colonel Levitate]

I personally can't wait to use snorlax this gen. One thing I do like about x and y is that it allows a lot of previously forgotten pokemon to become viable options instead of the standard garchomp t-tar etc. That self destruct is really perfect, imagine OHKOing someones brand new mega with <25% hp left before they get a chance to sweep.

 

[seventh]

Snorlax has always been one of my favorite pokemon; I'm looking forward to trying it out again.

Selfdestruct sounds nice, but my experiences with this thing in last gen's UU have shown me the value of pursuit. Forcing a switch while dealing damage or even KO'ing is way better than sitting there taking hits and getting set up on with no lefites.
That's another concern. Even if you stop something like greninja or gengar, you yourself will be forced to retreat when they bring out one of the many physical forces in the current metagame.
I'd love to use him in OU but I can too easily see him being outclassed. Until that's proven to me, however, it won't stop me from trying.

New model sucks though.

 

[Jaroda]

I've tried Snorlax online, he has a lot of versatility and crazy amount of options. Coverage is fast, enough to make use of Assault Vest for sure and with Thick Fat he's a terrific Fire and Ice sponge as well as a well sought after Ghost immunity. Having to rely on Focus Miss is a big disadvantage against him. He even gets Gunk Shot according to the simulator, which would demolish fairies but really EQ/Ice Punch/ThunderPunch/Crunch or Body Slam is really good for coverage.

Also, Rest/Curse is totally viable again. Snorlax's typing and 160/65/110 is a terrific spread for a Curse set to patch up that lackluster Df. Physical Fighting moves can be seen a mile way, so it's probably best to hold off on throwing him out there. Still...

Snorlax@Leftovers
Thick Fat
4 HP / 252 Df / 252 SpD
~ Curse
~ Rest
~ Body Slam/Brick Break/Sleep Talk
~ Crunch

With Steel no longer resisting Dark, Dark/Normal hits everything in the game neutrally barring Klefki, Carbink, Bisharp and Tyranitar. Maybe a few more... You can through Brick Break over Body Slam but then Fairies give you trouble. You really want Crunch though if you're going to counter Ghosts. Status means nothing when you can Rest to full and if you've gotten a Curse in then you can actually afford to sleep to full much of the time with Leftovers since you have so much HP. His HP is so high that you get better longevity boosting his two defense stats and so Df gets boosted more when you Curse. Sleep Talk should be used with Crunch if you want a solo attack so you really can take care of said Ghosts.

And I can't believe it doesn't have Slack Off yet. I mean really!

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Snorlax (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SDef
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Whirlwind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

ShuffleLax is going to be better than ever now, thanks to the reversion to Gen IV sleep mechanics, on top of the fact that many of the tougher Special Attacks were nerfed. Unlike Blissey, Snorlax is not a sitting duck (blob?), since he has access to Whirlwind, and also has significantly better physical bulk. Can't wait to try him in standard again!

 

[MegaSnorlax]

Is curselax still viable?

 

[Farpafraf]

With the assault vest he's like the ultimate Sdefensive pkmn however a wish from a pkmn like jellicent or even vaporeon isn't going to heal him that much, he needs chansey's wish.

 

[Copes]

I have had a lot of success with Assault Vest Snorlax on Showdown, I really like him. He partners well with Char Y and the two of them are forming the core of the first competitive in-game team I am trying to build.

I've been running him on Showdown with IcePunch, but the unfortunate fact is that there is no access to Ice Punch until Pokebank opens up.

I've been running Crunch instead of Pursuit, but I do think that Pursuit is probably the better move to run with, and I'll be making the change later today. Need to start Rock Smashing for a Skull Fossil in game I suppose.

 

[Molk]

You know i've actually been intrigued by how Snorlax might function in this new generation. Changes such as the introduction of Assault Vest, the general special moves nerf to make his job easier, and the return of gen 1-4 Sleep Mechanics (if you decide to run a set with rest instead of going vest) give me a feeling that he has a legitimate shot at a comeback in x/y (although we'll have to wait and see!). Something notable that i'd like to point out involving the bulky offensive tank is that i don't think Assault Vest Snorlax really needs to go max/max+ with its special bulk. 160/110 bulk with an assault vest tacked on is already extremely high, and i feel that dedicating all your evs to HP and Special Defense on the set is a bit overkill (although you definitely want to have some investment!). I'd probably move some of the evs over to attack to give Snorlax's attacks a bit more oomph, but that's just me. Anyways, here are some damage calculations of my own to contribute against some potential special attackers in the x/y metagame (there are some post pokebank calcs in here btw), to show just how effectively assault vest Snorlax can check them. All damage calculations are done using Snorlax's standard BW UU spread, keep in mind that a different spread might be better for snorlax right now though since its a different meta and all :x. Feel free to post your thoughts on how well Snorlax takes these pokemon on below.

Greninja

Greninja Attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 103-122 (22.34 - 26.46%) -- possible 4HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 75-90 (16.26 - 19.52%) -- possible 6HKO

4 Atk Life Orb Greninja U-turn vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Snorlax: 125-148 (27.11 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Snorlax in return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Greninja: 252-297 (88.42 - 104.21%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Greninja: 132-156 (46.31 - 54.73%) -- 56.25% chance to 2HKO (On a switch assuming protean has changed Greninja's type to something neutral to dark)


I guess Greninja could be a pain with multiple well timed U-turns, but if Snorlax gets in on pretty much anything else, Greninja's in a pretty tough spot, with Return OHKOing it after Stealth Rock pretty easily and Pursuit doing a lot of damage if Greninja switches out without its Dark-typing (like with U-turn perhaps?)

Mega Charizard Y

Mega Charizard Y Attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Thick Fat Snorlax in sun: 81-96 (17.57 - 20.82%) -- possible 5HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y SolarBeam vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 79-93 (17.13 - 20.17%) -- possible 5HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 75-88 (16.26 - 19.08%) -- possible 6HKO

252 SpA Charizard Focus Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 158-186 (34.27 - 40.34%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Snorlax in Return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard: 199-235 (67 - 79.12%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard: 104-124 (35.01 - 41.75%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (switching out)

Snorlax has absolutely no problem with Mega Charizard Y, and should be able to beat it pretty easily unless it takes a lot of prior damage. Not even a possible Focus Blast can get past Snorlax, having a very high chance of missing at least once and only doing 40% at absolute maximum, if Stealth Rock is up that seals the deal for zard y.

Heatran (Allowed in Pokebank OU)

Heatran Attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Thick Fat Snorlax: 48-57 (10.41 - 12.36%) -- possible 8HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 51-61 (11.06 - 13.23%) -- possible 8HKO

Snorlax in Return

252+ Atk Snorlax Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 408-480 (126.31 - 148.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (might have to use return or pursuit on Heatran first if Air Balloon)

Heatran doesn't stand a chance at all here lol, even with Air Balloon Snorlax can still simply break the balloon and attack, and can even use Pursuit to break the balloon as heatran switches (i think?).

Thundurus-T (Allowed in Pokebank OU)

Thundurus-T attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 190-226 (41.21 - 49.02%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (high chance of 2HKOing after Stealth Rock :s)

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 109-129 (23.64 - 27.98%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

Snorlax in Return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus-T: 217-256 (72.57 - 85.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus-T: 114-136 (38.12 - 45.48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (switching out)

Sadly Thundurus-T has a decent shot at winning here if Focus Blasts gets high damage rolls, thund is holding Life Orb, and rocks are up, +2 Focus Blast also has a decent shot of OHKOing after Stealth Rock. Knowing Focus Blast though....

Tornadus-T (allowed in pokebank OU)

Tornadus-T attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Focus Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 159-187 (34.49 - 40.56%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 109-129 (23.64 - 27.98%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

4- Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T U-turn vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Snorlax: 78-92 (16.91 - 19.95%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock


Snorlax in return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 196-232 (65.55 - 77.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 104-124 (34.78 - 41.47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (switching out)

Like with Greninja well timed U-turns from Tornadus-T could get annoying, but Snorlax can still pose a threat to Tornadus-t if it gets in on anything else, just make sure to watch out for Focus Blasts if you take too much prior damage.

Landorus-I (Allowed in pokebank OU)

Landorus-I attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 208-247 (45.11 - 53.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 118-140 (25.59 - 30.36%) -- 7.01% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

4 Atk Life Orb Landorus U-turn vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Snorlax: 105-125 (22.77 - 27.11%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

Snorlax in return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Landorus: 198-234 (62.06 - 73.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Snorlax Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Landorus: 388-460 (121.63 - 144.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (obtainable post pokebank)

There's only word to describe that Focus Blast: Ouch. This is a Pokemon that Snorlax would probably need to run a bulkier spread to do well against, and even then Landorus-I might give lax a hard time. thats to be expected from Landorus-I though given its really damn powerful with Sheer Force Life Orb and all.

Latios (obtainable post pokebank)

Latios attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Snorlax: 258-304 (55.96 - 65.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 163-193 (35.35 - 41.86%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Snorlax in Return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 196-232 (65.11 - 77.07%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 208-248 (69.1 - 82.39%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (switching out)

Choice Specs Psyshocks are really painful, but get Snorlax in on anything other than that and Latios is essentially screwed, even being trapped by Pursuit!

Latias (Obtainable post pokebank

Latias attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Life Orb Latias Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Snorlax: 199-235 (43.16 - 50.97%) -- 4.69% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 126-149 (27.33 - 32.32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Snorlax in Return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 178-210 (58.94 - 69.53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 188-224 (62.25 - 74.17%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Like Latios, Psyshock is a pain, but if Snorlax gets in on anything else, especially meteor, Latias is going to have a hard time

Goodra

Goodra attacking Snorlax

252+ SpA Goodra Focus Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 132-156 (28.63 - 33.83%) -- 0.49% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 108-127 (23.42 - 27.54%) -- possible 4HKO


Snorlax in return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 219-258 (57.03 - 67.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Snorlax should have absolutely no trouble checking Vest Goodra, not even a possible Focus Blast does enough to break Snorlax, and lax always 2HKOs 252/0 Goodra with no prior damage

Noivern

Noivern attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 135-159 (29.28 - 34.49%) -- 4.3% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Boomburst vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 96-114 (20.82 - 24.72%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hurricane vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 114-135 (24.72 - 29.28%) -- possible 4HKO

Snorlax in Return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 196-232 (63.02 - 74.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 384-456 (123.47 - 146.62%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 104-124 (33.44 - 39.87%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Snorlax should have little trouble with Noivern, repeated U-turns could wear lax down, but they won't do that much and Noivern will get worn down really fast itself if Stealth Rock is up.

So what do you all think? Some of the Pokemon listed can get past Snorlax through repeated Focus Blasts or Psyshock, but it still seems like Snorlax would at least pose a threat to the vast majority of them to me, maybe i'm just a bit too optimistic :s.

 

[Zazazaki]

Shouldn't this thread go to the Old mon's discussion thread? It didn't really got anythin ground-breakin (new type, good new ability or w/e)
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/old-mon-general-discussion.3490455/

That aside, I think Snorlax will be about the same as it was on Gen 5, maybe slightly better, but overall I presume it will remain as top-notch UU with viability in OU.

 

[Impy]

Assault Vest might be what it takes for Snorlax to finally crawl back into OU. That special bulk is great. But I think his best days will always be behind him, sadly. When your best STAB move is a suicide attack that's been nerfed to hell and back, you might not have what it takes anymore. There's Return, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that ghost types are the new dragons and will generally wall him right back (Looking at you, Aegislash.) And even with the fantastic bulk Assault Vest provides, losing Leftovers, Rest and everything else kills his ability to stall. Everything he could be doing is done ten times better by Goodra and Tyranitar. Tyranitar alone has superior special bulk thanks to sand stream, which covers more than Thick Fat ever will, and hits much harder. Goodra is a nearly unmatched special tank that can force switches just by breathing thanks to Gooey.

Without Assault Vest Snorlax is basically unchanged from his original incarnation. There's a reason he's been UU for a while: The metagame changes and he just doesn't. Assault Vest is fun, and that special bulk looks great, but thick fat is kind of pointless on a normal type. Back when everyone and their mother carried ice beam, sure, Snorlax could wall just on account of some pokemon carrying nothing BUT ice beam. But fire moves are still rare and ice is probably going to drop sharply in usage now that it's utterly outclassed by fairy. That will only get worse with time. And never forget the ever-present fighting-type wallbreaking moves. Mega Lucario alone just stands there and laughs at Snorlax as it pumps up its fat ass and tries to take a double-STAB CC. Maybe he will come back in OU, but he's like a severely drug-ravaged musician trying to play again. You want him to be good again, but you know in your heart he'll never be the same.

Rest in peace, sweet prince. We'll never forget your reign.

 

[silversurfer718]

Tbh, I think Snorlax is entirely viable in OU, just not with assault vest or really most of the sets listed here. Choice band, max att max spD Snorlax is an absolute monster and can OHKO many serious threats. Gengar, the Lati twins, Heatran. All crushed by Snorlax.

And for the Lucario example, choice band lax OHKOs him with an EQ. So its not a safe switch in at all

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

ice is probably going to drop sharply in usage now that it's utterly outclassed by fairy.

*laughs*

As per your post at large, OP clearly shows how well our blob eats up Mega Gengar's attacks. Moreover, with Immunity it can utterly wall Megengar, as it can't even hope for poison hax.

Worst case scenario Snorlax remains UU, which is just fine.

 

[Impy]

*laughs*

As per your post at large, OP clearly shows how well our blob eats up Mega Gengar's attacks. Moreover, with Immunity it can utterly wall Megengar, as it can't even hope for poison hax.

Worst case scenario Snorlax remains UU, which is just fine.

Tyranitar does that better too.

I guess a lot of that was rampant theorymoning, I admit. But when fairy attacks become more numerous, ice will probably take a back seat when everyone can run a move that has coverage on dark, fighting and dragon. I just really don't see things getting too much better for Snorlax. His reign of terror is long over.

 

[alexwolf]

Something worth noting is that Pursuit + Selfdestruct is a legal egg move combo on Snorlax now. Assault Vest sets can become the ultimate Mega Gengar counter while also being able to soften up Pokemon such as Hippowdon nicely for teammates to sweep. The set should probably be this:

Snorlax @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Adamant Nature:
- Return
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Selfdestruct

Use it with some Magnezone support and you should be fine. Oh, and look at this:

- 252+ Atk Snorlax Selfdestruct vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 204-241 (48.57 - 57.38%)

Not bad at all for a physically based HO team that wants some insurance against special attackers in generals and especially Gengar.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

But when fairy attacks become more numerous, ice will probably take a back seat when everyone can run a move that has coverage on dark, fighting and dragon. I just really don't see things getting too much better for Snorlax. His reign of terror is long over.

A: Ice has far greater distribution than Fairy, as Ice Beam is available on essentially every Water pokemon. Fairy's distribution, counter to what your post implies, is fairly small.

B: Ice hits TONS of important threats 4x; Hydreigon's the only Dragon that Fairy does that to.

C: Ice also hits majorly common types like Flying and Ground.

In short, it's going exactly nowhere. Assuming otherwise is bad theorymonning.

 

[KOTR]

You know i've actually been intrigued by how Snorlax might function in this new generation. Changes such as the introduction of Assault Vest, the general special moves nerf to make his job easier, and the return of gen 1-4 Sleep Mechanics (if you decide to run a set with rest instead of going vest) give me a feeling that he has a legitimate shot at a comeback in x/y (although we'll have to wait and see!). Something notable that i'd like to point out involving the bulky offensive tank is that i don't think Assault Vest Snorlax really needs to go max/max+ with its special bulk. 160/110 bulk with an assault vest tacked on is already extremely high, and i feel that dedicating all your evs to HP and Special Defense on the set is a bit overkill (although you definitely want to have some investment!). I'd probably move some of the evs over to attack to give Snorlax's attacks a bit more oomph, but that's just me. Anyways, here are some damage calculations of my own to contribute against some potential special attackers in the x/y metagame (there are some post pokebank calcs in here btw), to show just how effectively assault vest Snorlax can check them. All damage calculations are done using Snorlax's standard BW UU spread, keep in mind that a different spread might be better for snorlax right now though since its a different meta and all :x. Feel free to post your thoughts on how well Snorlax takes these pokemon on below.

Greninja

Greninja Attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 103-122 (22.34 - 26.46%) -- possible 4HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 75-90 (16.26 - 19.52%) -- possible 6HKO

4 Atk Life Orb Greninja U-turn vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Snorlax: 125-148 (27.11 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Snorlax in return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Greninja: 252-297 (88.42 - 104.21%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Greninja: 132-156 (46.31 - 54.73%) -- 56.25% chance to 2HKO (On a switch assuming protean has changed Greninja's type to something neutral to dark)


I guess Greninja could be a pain with multiple well timed U-turns, but if Snorlax gets in on pretty much anything else, Greninja's in a pretty tough spot, with Return OHKOing it after Stealth Rock pretty easily and Pursuit doing a lot of damage if Greninja switches out without its Dark-typing (like with U-turn perhaps?)

Mega Charizard Y

Mega Charizard Y Attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Thick Fat Snorlax in sun: 81-96 (17.57 - 20.82%) -- possible 5HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y SolarBeam vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 79-93 (17.13 - 20.17%) -- possible 5HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 75-88 (16.26 - 19.08%) -- possible 6HKO

252 SpA Charizard Focus Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 158-186 (34.27 - 40.34%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Snorlax in Return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard: 199-235 (67 - 79.12%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard: 104-124 (35.01 - 41.75%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (switching out)

Snorlax has absolutely no problem with Mega Charizard Y, and should be able to beat it pretty easily unless it takes a lot of prior damage. Not even a possible Focus Blast can get past Snorlax, having a very high chance of missing at least once and only doing 40% at absolute maximum, if Stealth Rock is up that seals the deal for zard y.

Heatran (Allowed in Pokebank OU)

Heatran Attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Thick Fat Snorlax: 48-57 (10.41 - 12.36%) -- possible 8HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 51-61 (11.06 - 13.23%) -- possible 8HKO

Snorlax in Return

252+ Atk Snorlax Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 408-480 (126.31 - 148.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (might have to use return or pursuit on Heatran first if Air Balloon)

Heatran doesn't stand a chance at all here lol, even with Air Balloon Snorlax can still simply break the balloon and attack, and can even use Pursuit to break the balloon as heatran switches (i think?).

Thundurus-T (Allowed in Pokebank OU)

Thundurus-T attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 190-226 (41.21 - 49.02%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (high chance of 2HKOing after Stealth Rock :s)

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 109-129 (23.64 - 27.98%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

Snorlax in Return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus-T: 217-256 (72.57 - 85.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus-T: 114-136 (38.12 - 45.48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (switching out)

Sadly Thundurus-T has a decent shot at winning here if Focus Blasts gets high damage rolls, thund is holding Life Orb, and rocks are up, +2 Focus Blast also has a decent shot of OHKOing after Stealth Rock. Knowing Focus Blast though....

Tornadus-T (allowed in pokebank OU)

Tornadus-T attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Focus Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 159-187 (34.49 - 40.56%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 109-129 (23.64 - 27.98%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

4- Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T U-turn vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Snorlax: 78-92 (16.91 - 19.95%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock


Snorlax in return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 196-232 (65.55 - 77.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 104-124 (34.78 - 41.47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (switching out)

Like with Greninja well timed U-turns from Tornadus-T could get annoying, but Snorlax can still pose a threat to Tornadus-t if it gets in on anything else, just make sure to watch out for Focus Blasts if you take too much prior damage.

Landorus-I (Allowed in pokebank OU)

Landorus-I attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 208-247 (45.11 - 53.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 118-140 (25.59 - 30.36%) -- 7.01% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

4 Atk Life Orb Landorus U-turn vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Snorlax: 105-125 (22.77 - 27.11%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

Snorlax in return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Landorus: 198-234 (62.06 - 73.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Snorlax Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Landorus: 388-460 (121.63 - 144.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (obtainable post pokebank)

There's only word to describe that Focus Blast: Ouch. This is a Pokemon that Snorlax would probably need to run a bulkier spread to do well against, and even then Landorus-I might give lax a hard time. thats to be expected from Landorus-I though given its really damn powerful with Sheer Force Life Orb and all.

Latios (obtainable post pokebank)

Latios attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Snorlax: 258-304 (55.96 - 65.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 163-193 (35.35 - 41.86%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Snorlax in Return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 196-232 (65.11 - 77.07%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 208-248 (69.1 - 82.39%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (switching out)

Choice Specs Psyshocks are really painful, but get Snorlax in on anything other than that and Latios is essentially screwed, even being trapped by Pursuit!

Latias (Obtainable post pokebank

Latias attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Life Orb Latias Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Snorlax: 199-235 (43.16 - 50.97%) -- 4.69% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 126-149 (27.33 - 32.32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Snorlax in Return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 178-210 (58.94 - 69.53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 188-224 (62.25 - 74.17%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Like Latios, Psyshock is a pain, but if Snorlax gets in on anything else, especially meteor, Latias is going to have a hard time

Goodra

Goodra attacking Snorlax

252+ SpA Goodra Focus Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 132-156 (28.63 - 33.83%) -- 0.49% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 108-127 (23.42 - 27.54%) -- possible 4HKO


Snorlax in return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 219-258 (57.03 - 67.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Snorlax should have absolutely no trouble checking Vest Goodra, not even a possible Focus Blast does enough to break Snorlax, and lax always 2HKOs 252/0 Goodra with no prior damage

Noivern

Noivern attacking Snorlax

252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 135-159 (29.28 - 34.49%) -- 4.3% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Boomburst vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 96-114 (20.82 - 24.72%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hurricane vs. +1 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax: 114-135 (24.72 - 29.28%) -- possible 4HKO

Snorlax in Return

252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 196-232 (63.02 - 74.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 384-456 (123.47 - 146.62%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 104-124 (33.44 - 39.87%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Snorlax should have little trouble with Noivern, repeated U-turns could wear lax down, but they won't do that much and Noivern will get worn down really fast itself if Stealth Rock is up.

So what do you all think? Some of the Pokemon listed can get past Snorlax through repeated Focus Blasts or Psyshock, but it still seems like Snorlax would at least pose a threat to the vast majority of them to me, maybe i'm just a bit too optimistic :s.

So what takes the attacks that wreck 'Lax?

I was thinking Skarmory. I don't know where you guys get those calculations from so I don't know how well Skarmory takes Therian Kami Focus Blasts or Mystical Dragon Psyshocks, but if it can well then it's worth noting that 'Lax comfortably switches in on any Fire, Ice, or Electric attacks directed at Skarmory, they both can phaze for one another, Skarmory sets hazards and Snorlax can Pursuit trap Spinners like Starmie and Trevenant as well has Magic Bounce Espeon and Xatu, and they both have strong recovery and offensive options.

It looks good from my limited scope. What do you think?

 

[I2edShift]

So what takes the attacks that wreck 'Lax?

Just going by types here, but Mega Charizard Y sounds like a decent enough fit.... Also the Lati twins?

 

[Guggerbunk]

Something worth noting is that Pursuit + Selfdestruct is a legal egg move combo on Snorlax now. Assault Vest sets can become the ultimate Mega Gengar counter while also being able to soften up Pokemon such as Hippowdon nicely for teammates to sweep. The set should probably be this:

Snorlax @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Adamant Nature:
- Return
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Selfdestruct

Use it with some Magnezone support and you should be fine. Oh, and look at this:

- 252+ Atk Snorlax Selfdestruct vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 204-241 (48.57 - 57.38%)

Not bad at all for a physically based HO team that wants some insurance against special attackers in generals and especially Gengar.

I've been thinking about how to handle the Perish trapper variant of Mega Gengar. Here's some crunchings in regards to this irritating encounter.

Turn 1: Opposing Gengar switches in.
Turn 2: You expect a Mega Gengar and switch in Snorlax. Gengar goes mega and uses Substitute.
Turn 3: Mega Gengar uses Protect. Snorlax uses either Pursuit or Earthquake. Let's say EQ for now to drag the example out.
Turn 4: Mega Gengar uses Disable. EQ is disabled. Expecting this, Snorlax uses Pursuit. Mega Gengar's sub is broken. Mega Gengar is at 75% HP.
Turn 5: Mega Gengar uses Perish Song. Snorlax uses Pursuit. Mega Gengar takes 39.69 - 47.32% from Pursuit. Mega Gengar is at 27.68% - 35.51%.
- Perish Song count is at 3 for Snorlax and Mega Gengar.
Turn 6: Mega Gengar uses Protect. Snorlax uses Pursuit.
- Perish Song count is at 2 for Snorlax and Mega Gengar.
Turn 7: Mega Gengar uses Substitute. Snorlax uses Pursuit. The sub is broken. Mega Gengar is at 2.68% to 10.51%.
- Perish Song count is at 1 for Snorlax and Mega Gengar.
Turn 8: Mega Gengar uses Protect. Snorlax uses Pursuit.
- Perish Song count is at 0 for Snorlax and Mega Gengar. Both faint.

Turn 7 is key there for this part. If Stealth Rock is in play on the side of Mega Gengar it cannot Substitute on Turn 7 and will have to pray to the RNG that Protect does not fail, else it is KO'ed by Pursuit. Now to look at the better option with Pursuit being hit with Disable instead.

Turn 3: Mega Gengar uses Protect. Snorlax uses Pursuit.
Turn 4: Mega Gengar uses Disable. Pursuit is Disabled. Expecting this, Snorlax uses Earthquake. Mega Gengar's sub is broken. Mega Gengar is at 75%.
Turn 5: Mega Gengar uses Protect. Snorlax uses Earthquake.

Mega Gengar now sees that Snorlax can OHKO it after the first sub and it can't stall with Perish Song effectively. What if a Snorlax switch with Pursuit / EQ is expected on turn 2 and Perish Song is used?

Turn 2: You expect a Mega Gengar and switch in Snorlax. Gengar goes mega and uses Perish Song.
- Perish Song count is at 3 for Snorlax and Mega Gengar.
Turn 3: Mega Gengar uses Protect. Snorlax uses Pursuit.
- Perish Song count is at 2 for Snorlax and Mega Gengar.
Turn 4: Mega Gengar uses Substitute. Snorlax uses Pursuit. Mega Gengar's sub is broken. Mega Gengar is at 75%.
- Perish Song count is at 1 for Snorlax and Mega Gengar.
Turn 5: Mega Gengar attempts to switch out. Snorlax uses Pursuit. Pursuit KO's Mega Gengar.
- Perish Song count as it 0 for Snorlax. Snorlax faints.

If Mega Gengar expects a Snorlax @ Assault Vest switch to counter it if it Perish Songs on the switch the best possible outcome is for both Pokemon to faint. Dammit.

It's possible that the ResTalk set of yestergen would break Perish Song traps, but to be honest I don't know how Protect functions against Whirlwind and how Disable checks against Sleep Talk. Whether ResTalk can aggravate is contingent upon those two things. I'm starting to think that if Mega Gengar is not banned to ubers (or at least if Perish Song is not made illegal on @ Gengarite) then he'll be meta defining, and not in a good way.

Edit: I've been told that Whirlwind is blocked by Protect and that Disable blocks Sleep Talk... so crap.

 

[marrrkyyy]

Question is... How do you get self destruct onto this boomlax in this gen. Puzzilng x.x

 

[Jaroda]

Tyranitar does that better too.

I guess a lot of that was rampant theorymoning, I admit. But when fairy attacks become more numerous, ice will probably take a back seat when everyone can run a move that has coverage on dark, fighting and dragon. I just really don't see things getting too much better for Snorlax. His reign of terror is long over.

The old argument of Poker on X does this better than Y can't be applied universally otherwise every team would have the same 6 pokemon. Some teams would benefit more from Normal than Tyranitar. Tyranitar is bulky as he'll and strong but it can't take Focus Blasts like Snorlax can. And some teams don't want Sand Stream for numerous reasons.

 

[Guggerbunk]

Question is... How do you get self destruct onto this boomlax in this gen. Puzzilng x.x

It is an egg move for Snorlax, but presumably we cannot access it until we bring a third (Pokemon XD tutor), fourth (PokeWalker), or fifth (breeding either of the previous two) gen Snorlax with Selfdestruct into X/Y via Pokebank.

The old argument of Poker on X does this better than Y can't be applied universally otherwise every team would have the same 6 pokemon. Some teams would benefit more from Normal than Tyranitar. Tyranitar is bulky as he'll and strong but it can't take Focus Blasts like Snorlax can. And some teams don't want Sand Stream for numerous reasons.

Tyranitar is also weak to Water / Grass / Fairy / Ground / Fighting / Steel, resists Fire but not Ice, gets butchered by any version of Mega Gengar, and as a consequence of his ability demands that your team be built around Sandstorm synergies. And he can't make himself asplode. Can't emphasize that enough. Boom.

 

[GrassNeedsBuffs]

Snorlax has heavy slam so:


110 Atk + 7th heaviest pokemon ever = dead fairies

But it may be a bit of a gimmick.

 

[Aasgier]

Choice Band Snorlax' Heavy Slam OHKO's most fairies. Most fairies aren't heavy, I think Mr Mime is the heaviest but its hit for 120 BP as well.

Mawile and Azumarill can certainly take one though.

 

[Zazazaki]

Snorlax @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Adamant / Brave Nature:
- Return
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Pursuit / Crunch

Classic CB set that I was usin in Gen 5, it should work just as well now too, especially with some trick room support. I don't see a reason to change much over a new type, as Return hits hard anyway.
Choice Band 252+ Atk Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Azumarill : 72,28% - 85,4% : Guaranteed 2KHO.