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Snover (Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Ray Jay, Dec 16, 2011.

  1. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    Hey peeps and peepettes, Snover needs to be redone; it's pretty out of date for this metagame, has too many sets, etc (also has some grammar issues, but that's the inner gp boy coming out in me).
    [​IMG]

    QC (open)
    -Coma -Aerrow -EM? lol


    GP (open)
    -Snorlaxe -Zystral



    [Overview]
    <p>Even though its stats may not appear initially overwhelming, Snover possesses a useful niche in the Little Cup metagame due to being one of two legal, automatic-weather inducers. Although sandstorm provided by Hippopotas is a more prevalent playing style, hail is beneficial to Snover. Primarily, Blizzard becomes 100% accurate, and in conjunction with a usable base 62 Special Attack, puts pressure on the opponent if they lack an answer to Snover; unfortunately, there are a lot of those floating around, as Fighting-types dominate the metagame. Snow Warning is also useful for eliminating sandstorm, which makes Pokemon such as Drilbur and Lileep more manageable. To back all this up, Snover also has a particularly useful movepool, including defensive moves as Leech Seed and Substitute, and STAB priority in Ice Shard.</p>

    [Set]
    name: Offensive Leech Seed
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Blizzard
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Ice Shard / Substitute
    item: Eviolite / Life Orb
    nature: Rash / Naive
    evs: 36 HP / 20 Atk / 36 Def / 184 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Just by switching in, Snover shuts down opponents that rely on sandstorm and turns the weather into a nuisance that harms all but a few Pokemon in LC. Leech Seed makes this effect additive, and is a fantastic move due to all of the switches Snover causes. Blizzard becomes a 100% accurate STAB move with 180 Base Power. Blizzard still hits a good portion of the metagame for super effective damage, such as Taillow, Hippopotas, and, of course, Drilbur. Giga Drain provides both healing and decent neutral coverage in tandem with Blizzard, taking out bulky Water-types such as Slowpoke and Chinchou. Ice Shard is useful in the last slot as it picks off weakened Flying-types equipped with a Choice Scarf, or Dragon-types with Dragon Dance. However, Substitute is also viable to ease prediction and rack up copious amounts of damage with Leech Seed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The EVs prioritize Special Attack and Speed, along with enough Attack to guarantee a 2HKO on Dratini with Ice Shard, all while retaining bulk. Eviolite is the preferred item as it synergizes nicely with Leech Seed, providing lasting longevity and added annoyance to the opponent. It also makes switching in to Snover less of a hassle, as its defensive stats aren't exactly stellar. Nonetheless, Life Orb can be used to make Blizzard all the more devastating as the recoil can be recouped from Giga Drain. If Life Orb is used, 100 EVs should be placed into Attack, as this gives Snover a chance to OHKO Dratini after Stealth Rock. Alternatively, 196 EVs and a Naughty nature bring Snover's Attack up to its maximum, and give it a chance to OHKO Drilbur. If this is chosen, Wood Hammer should be used over Giga Drain for its sheer power.</p>

    <p>Hidden Power Fire, although it has a tough time finding room on this set, hits opposing Snover, Ferroseed, and even Bronzor. Bulky Water-types work as fine teammates to Snover, as they tank Fire-type attacks. Frillish has the added bonus of being immune to Fighting-type attacks, while also being able to cripple them with Will-O-Wisp. On the other hand, Staryu can use Rapid Spin to get rid of Stealth Rock, which hampers Snover. Snover also needs teammates that can handle Fighting-types; Flying-types with a Choice Scarf, such as Taillow, Doduo, or Rufflet are fine choices for this. Wynaut also does this job well, but must be wary of switching into Mienfoo's U-turn.</p>

    [Set]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Blizzard
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Ice Shard
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Rock
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Naive
    evs: 100 Atk / 184 SpA / 196 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>By wearing a Choice Scarf, Snover guarantees that it will outspeed Drilbur, provided hail is up instead of sandstorm. If your team has a method of dealing with Fighting-types, "Blizzspam" suddenly becomes a scary offensive strategy, decimating a large portion of the tier. Giga Drain keeps Snover healthy after repeated switch-ins, and also does passable damage due to STAB. Ice Shard is an important move on this set, even with Choice Scarf, as it allows Snover to pick off faster Choice Scarf users such as Taillow. Hidden Power Fire is the primary option for the last slot, as it catches Ferroseed or Bronzor that try to switch in off guard. Hidden Power Rock is another option that hits the less-prevalent Fire-types, including Larvesta and Houndour.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>As stated, Choice Scarf with maximum Speed is important to outspeed Drilbur after Snow Warning (Snover should still be careful of coming in on a Rock Slide, however). Snover also gets the jump on Gastly, Staryu, Doduo, Ponyta, and Taillow that are not equipped with a Choice Scarf of their own. The Attack EVs can be shifted to 36 HP / 36 Def / and 36 SpD if you desire to use Leech Seed as a bluff instead of Ice Shard, or if Ice Shard is unnecessary for the team. Water Pulse and Shadow Ball are also interesting coverage moves Snover has access to, but don't provide any particularly helpful coverage (Hidden Power Rock is better since it is 4x effective on Larvesta, and Gastly already won't like taking Blizzards).</p>

    <p>Wynaut and Flying-types with a Choice Scarf are great teammates for Snover, as it still lacks a method of defeating Fighting-types (especially Mienfoo, who will wall this set). It is also recommended to use a defensive answer to Fighting-types, which can include Frillish, Eviolite Larvesta (who has good synergy with Snover, but suffers from Morning Sun being less effective in hail), or even Duskull. Ponyta absorbs Fire-type moves directed at Snover and takes out Bronzor, who walls varieties without Hidden Power Fire. Magnemite with Magnet Rise also have no problem taking out Bronzor. Ironically, a Mienfoo of your own can help alleviate the threat of opposing Fighting-types, getting free damage with Fake Out, hitting hard and fast with Hi Jump Kick, and paving a free way in for Snover with U-turn.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>An offensive Swords Dance set can be used, as Snover is one of the few Pokemon in Little Cup with STAB priority and Swords Dance. Protect could be used as more of an annoyance on any set with Leech Seed and Substitute; however, Snover needs both the offensive power of Blizzard and the coverage of Giga Drain. Speaking of which, Energy Ball can be used over Giga Drain on any set, but generally the HP restoration is more useful than a slight boost in power.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>Tentacool walls nearly every set Snover can run since its ability, Liquid Ooze, actually reverses the effect of Giga Drain and Leech Seed. When Snover does not have Hidden Power Fire, Steel-types such as Ferroseed, Bronzor, or even Pawniard will have no difficulty switching in and forcing Snover out. Stealth Rock does enough damage to Snover to discourage repeated switch-ins, and also makes it much easier to OHKO. Fighting-types typically take little from Blizzard and OHKO back with their STAB attacks. Notably, Mienfoo, a dominant force in the tier, can U-turn or Hi Jump Kick for stellar damage and then recover any damage it may have taken switching in courtesy of Regenerator. Lastly, Hippopotas is slower than nearly all variants of Snover, so it will always get sandstorm up if both it and Snover are sent out as a lead.</p>

    [Dream World]
    <p>Snover gets the ability Soundproof from the Dream World, but moves such as Roar and Bug Buzz are becoming less and less prevalent, and Snover should be used for its ability to summon hail anyway.</p>
  2. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    Perhaps mention Hidden Power (Fire?) on the first set, specifically for other Snover, but also for Ferroseed I guess. I've never really tried Leech Seed so idk how well it works, but it looks good on paper to help keep Snover healthy.

    Not sure what this means though:
    Eviolite is preferred to make taking attacks easier, Life Orb can make Blizzard more devastating (less preferred since resisted by Fighting-types)
    ?

    Also, maybe mention a +Atk nature with lots of Atk investment, I know I ran something like that when Gligar was around because it was necessary to to nab the KO (with Eviolite Snover), but a similar case probably applies to Drilbur since it outspeeds and threatens non-Scarf Snover.
  3. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    Updated with your suggestions and some calcs here and there, also I'm not even sure what I meant by that statement
  4. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    definitely mention Wynaut as a teammate for the Choice Scarf set. Fighting-types frigging hate those things. Also, both sets need a Mienfoo counter. Also, maybe mention Wood Hammer somewhere? It's good.

    QC APPROVED 1/2
  5. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    Implemented those changes and ready for 2nd QC check / approval.
  6. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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    I'm going to approve this (since it looks good to me), but I suggest you wait until elevator_music has taken another look at this update before you start writing it up.
  7. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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  8. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    Ready for GP checks!
  9. Crux

    Crux
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    Ummmm why is the offensive Leech Seed set listed first it is not that great the Choice Scarf set is better. Also my favorite Snover set is just a bulky offensive Eviolite set which I think deserves a set of its own, as it plays differently to the Leech Seed set.
  10. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    GP CHECK 1/2

    additions
    removals
    (comments)

    Show Hide
    [Overview]
    <p>While its stats may not appear initially overwhelming, Snover possesses a useful niche in the Little Cup metagame due to being one of two legal, automatic-weather inducers in the tier. Although Sandstorm sandstorm (weather conditions themselves arent capitalized; the same thing goes for hail) provided by Hippopotas is a more prevalent playing style, Hail hail is beneficial for a variety of reasons to Snover for a variety of reasons. Primarily, Blizzard becomes 100% accurate, and in conjunction with Snover's usable base 62 Special Attack, puts pressure on the opponent if they lack a resistance to it; unfortunately, there are a lot of those floating around with Fighting-types dominating the metagame. (not sure what this sentence means. what is floating around exactly ?_?) Snow Warning is also useful for eliminating Sandstorm, sandstorm, which makes Pokemon such as Drilbur and Lileep more manageable. To back all this up, Snover also has a particularly useful movepool, including defensive moves as Leech Seed and Substitute, and STAB priority in Ice Shard.</p>

    [Set]
    name: Offensive Leech Seed
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Blizzard
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Ice Shard / Substitute
    item: Eviolite / Life Orb
    nature: Rash / Naive
    evs: 36 HP / 20 Atk / 36 Def / 184 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Switching Just by switching in, Snover shuts down opponents that rely on Sandstorm sandstorm and turns the weather into a nuisance that harms all but a few Pokemon in LC. Leech Seed makes this effect additive, and is a fantastic move due to all of the switches Snover causes. Blizzard, despite being resisted by the ubiquitous Fighting-types, (Fighting-types dont resist Ice.......?) becomes a 100% accurate STAB move with 180 base power. Base Power. Blizzard still hits a good portion of the metagame for super effective damage, such as Taillow, Hippopotas, and, of course, Drilbur. Giga Drain provides both healing and decent neutral coverage in tandem with Blizzard, taking out bulky Water-types such as Slowpoke and Chinchou. Ice Shard is useful in the last slot as it picks off weakened Flying-types equipped with a Choice Scarf, or Dragon-types with Dragon Dance. However, Substitute is also viable to ease prediction and rack up copious amounts of damage with Leech Seed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The EVs prioritize Special Attack and Speed, give enough Attack to guarantee a 2HKO on Dratini with Ice Shard while retaining bulk. Eviolite is the preferred item as it synergizes nicely with Leech Seed, providing lasting longevity and added annoyance to the opponent. It also makes switching-in switching in (no hyphen when its a verb) to Snover less of a hassle, as its defensive stats aren't exactly stellar. Nonetheless, Life Orb can be used to make Blizzard all the more devastating since the recoil can be recouped from Giga Drain. If Life Orb is used, 100 EVs should be placed into Attack, as this gives Snover a chance to OHKO Dratini after SR. Stealth Rock damage. (you typically dont abbreviate in analyses) Alternatively, 196 EVs and a Naughty nature bring Snover's Attack up to its maximum, and give it a chance to OHKO Drilbur. If this is chosen, Wood Hammer should be used over Giga Drain for its sheer power.</p>

    <p>Hidden Power Fire, although it has a tough time finding room on this set, hits opposing Snover, Ferroseed, and even Bronzor. Bulky Water-types work as fine teammates to Snover, as they tank Fire-type attacks. Frillish has the added bonus of being immune to Fighting-type attacks, while also being able to cripple them such Pokemon with Will-O-Wisp. On the other hand, Staryu can use Rapid Spin to get rid of Stealth Rock, which hampers Snover. Snover also needs teammates that can handle Fighting-types, and Fighting-types. Flying-types with a Choice Scarf, such as Taillow, Doduo, or Rufflet are fine choices for this. Wynaut also does this job well, but must be wary of switching into Mienfoo's U-turn.</p>

    [Set]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Blizzard
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Ice Shard
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Rock
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Naive
    evs: 100 Atk / 184 SpA / 196 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>By wearing a Choice Scarf, Snover guarantees that it will outspeed Drilbur, provided Hail hail is up instead of Sandstorm sandstorm. If your team has a method to dealing with Fighting-types, (seriously whats up with all this Fighting-type shit in this analysis? i realize that fighting-types are super effective against snover, but they DONT resist blizzard. if im missing something, please explain it to me) "Blizzspam" suddenly becomes a scary offensive strategy, decimating a large portion of the tier. Giga Drain keeps Snover healthy after repeated switch-ins, and also does passable damage due to STAB. Ice Shard is an important move on this set, even with Choice Scarf, as it allows Snover to pick off faster Choice Scarf users such as Taillow. Hidden Power Fire is the primary option for the last slot, as it catches Ferroseed or Bronzor that try to switch-in switch in off guard. with their resistances. Hidden Power Rock is another option that hits the less-prevalent Fire-types, including Larvesta and Houndour.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>As stated, Choice Scarf with maximum Speed is important to outspeed Drilbur after Snow Warning (Snover should still be careful of coming in on a Rock Slide, however). Snover also gets the jump on Gastly, Staryu, Doduo, Ponyta, and Taillow that are not equipped with a Choice Scarf of their own. The Attack EVs can be shifted to 36 HP / 36 Def / and 36 SpD if you desire to use Leech Seed as a bluff instead of Ice Shard, or if Ice Shard is unnecessary for the team. Water Pulse and Shadow Ball are also interesting coverage moves Snover has access to, but don't provide any particularly helpful coverage (Hidden Power Rock is better since it is 4x effective on Larvesta, and Gastly already won't like taking Blizzards).</p>

    <p>Wynaut and Flying-types with a Choice Scarf are great teammates for Snover, as it still lacks a method of defeating Fighting-types (especially Mienfoo, who will wall this set). It is thus also recommended to use a defensive answer to Fighting-types, which can include Frillish, Eviolite Larvesta (who has good synergy with Snover, but suffers from Morning Sun being less effective in Hail hail), or even Duskull. Ponyta absorbs Fighting-type moves (how does ponyta absorb fighting-type moves? it doesnt resist them and isnt particularly bulky......) directed at Snover and takes out Bronzor, who walls varieties without Hidden Power Fire. Magnemite with Magnet Rise also have no problem taking out Bronzor. Ironically, a Mienfoo of your own can help alleviate the threat of opposing Fighting-types, getting free damage with Fake Out, hitting hard and fast with Hi Jump Kick, and paving a free way in for Snover with U-turn.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>An offensive Swords Dance set can be used, since Snover is one of the few Pokemon in Little Cup with STAB priority and Swords Dance. Protect could be used as more of an annoyance on any set with Leech Seed and Substitute; however, Snover needs both the offensive power of Blizzard and the coverage of Giga Drain. Speaking of which, Energy Ball can be used over Giga Drain on any set, but generally the HP restoration is more useful than a slight boost in power.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>Tentacool walls nearly every set Snover can run since its ability, Liquid Ooze, actually reverses the effect of Giga Drain and Leech Seed. When Tentacool does not have Hidden Power Fire, Additionally, Steel-types such as Ferroseed, Bronzor, or even Pawniard will have no difficulty switching in and forcing Snover out. Stealth Rock does enough damage to Snover to discourage repeated switch-ins, and also makes it much easier to OHKO. Fighting-types typically take little from Blizzard and OHKO back with their STAB attacks. Notably, Mienfoo, a dominant force in the tier, can U-turn or Hi Jump Kick for stellar damage and then recover any damage it may have taken switching in thanks to its ability. Lastly, Hippopotas is slower than nearly all variants of Snover, so it will always get Sandstorm sandstorm up if both it and Snover are sent out as a lead.</p>

    [Dream World]
    <p>Snover gets the ability Soundproof from the Dream World, but moves such as Roar and Bug Buzz are becoming less and less prevalent, and Snover should be used for its ability to summon Hail hail anyway.</p>


    um this analysis had some questionable content imo. maybe im missing something because i rarely play little cup, but i'd like it if you could read my comments and get back to me.

    [​IMG]
  11. Good_Luck!

    Good_Luck!

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    Resistances to Blizzard.

    I think he meant Thick Fat Makuhita, who's rarely seen but effective.

    LC is plagued with a lot of Fighting types who are usually Bulky enough to take a Blizzard even when hit neutrally. He emphasized into this because is very relevant to the meta.

    This I can't explain.
  12. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    I'm going to have to suck it up and say most of those were just honest mistakes. I wasn't really considering the fact that although Fighting-types beat Snover and are bulky enough to take unboosted Blizzards, they don't technically "resist it" (although, in an unofficial way, they are a "resistance" to Snover). Fighting-types dominate the metagame so that's why there's so much in there about them. I was thinking of the moves Sandstorm and Hail, but upon rereading it is the weather condition (uncapitalized) not the move like you suggested. I meant Fire-types which Ponyta absorbs, not Fighting-types. Thanks for your checks, I guess not writing an analysis for a few months puts you out of practice.
  13. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    2/2 Approved
  14. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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    Uploading -- Uploaded. Good work, Ray Jay!

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