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Snow Me (One Last Kiss) peaked@1903

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by WhiteDMist, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
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    [​IMG]

    Snow Me (One Last Kiss)

    Greetings to the Smogon community, both old and new! Welcome to my latest NU Rate My Team. Neverused has always been my metagame purely because of the sheer number of options to
    choose from. However, lately I've been playing mostly offense (though that is true for most of NU). With Snow Warning Snover allowed in NU now, I felt it was time for a Hail
    based RMT for the round. This is my first time making a Hail team for 5th Gen NU, since I actually started playing Pokemon again the round right after Hail was banned. Appropriately enough, my alt was Snow Me.

    Ladder Peak (open)
    [​IMG]


    I won't make a team-building process for this team because the members themselves haven't changed at all. Obviously, Snover was a necessity; an additional Hail abuser would be a
    requirement for me, as otherwise I wouldn't really have much need for Snover. However, most NU players know that I tend to go for the anti-meta options if I can, and the
    underused/underrated option even more often so. So I took a Pokemon that has had a few ups and downs in the past months, but has rolled with the punches to remain a driving force in the metagame: Samurott. Zebraiken has actually posted about how amazing SD Samurott was again because of Hail, which inspired me to use Samurott in general. I was sick of the same old Hail teams that follow a generic pattern of Snover, Duosion, Sawk, Rotom-F/Glaceon, Rock setter, Hail abuser. While my team may seem to have a similar set-up, the entire point of the team is to wreck opposing Hail teams. Enough talk, time to see the team!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Snover @ Eviolite
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 156 SDef / 100 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Toxic (over Giga Drain)
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect


    Surprising choice of Pokemon for a Hail team isn't it? Snover tends to be important mainly for setting up Hail, but I actually find occasional utility in a Leech Seeding
    monster. Most opponents tend to ignore Snover in favor of setting up, which is where Leech Seed comes into play. Protect is useful for racking up Hail and Leech Seed damage, as
    well as scouting for Choiced attackers. This is quite necessary, as otherwise I would have to predict perfectly or risk losing a Pokemon to a surprise Focus Blast, Stone Edge,
    etc. The Speed EVs are set to outspeed 60 Spe EV Golem so that I can Giga Drain first, forcing them to either attack or set up Rocks before dying. Otherwise, it is the standard
    Specially Defensive Snover; a decent check/counter to many Special Water and Electric types.
    Edit: I've changed Giga Drain to Toxic after some testing.

    [​IMG]

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    Golem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Sucker Punch


    Golem is my near-mandatory Stealth Rock setter; it is also my last resort revenge killer with an unSTABed Sucker Punch. Earthquake works well as a reliable STAB move, while Rock
    Blast is solely to break down Substitute users and anything frail with Focus Sash (if Hail isn't up yet). I added Golem over the bulker Regirock mainly because I needed at least a weak form of priority on my team. The Electric immunity and Fire resistance also meant a lot to this team, meaning that Carracosta and Piloswine weren't quite as useful. I set the Speed mainly to outpace other 60 Spe Golem and everything that is slower. The difference in bulk is somewhat negligible, though I admit that with Hail negating Leftover
    recovery it may be more significant.

    [​IMG]

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    Garbodor @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Aftermath
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Spikes
    - Toxic
    - Pain Split
    - Rock Blast


    This is from Zebraiken's The Heist RMT. I have really enjoyed using is EV spread, and the moveset fits my team perfectly. Spikes are a very nice commodity for this team, since
    my main strategy is to wear my opponents down with massive residual damage before closing in for the kill. Rocky Helmet also adds to the mix by adding on hilarious amounts of
    extra damage to many potent physical attackers; Aftermath is a nice bonus as well. I prefer Toxic over Toxic Spikes simply because I prefer an instant Toxic poisoning rather than having to set up more layers (and possibly losing them due to a Poison type switching in). Pain Split is an unreliable recovery move at times, but Garbodor needs it since it lacks Black Sludge. Garbodor's Rock Blast serves a similar purpose to Golem's, but considerably weaker. Garbodor also holds the distinction of being my best defense against
    Cinccino, who must rely on Tail Slap to have a chance to beat Garbodor (dying to Rocky Helmet recoil along the way).

    Edit: I'm still iffy on Gunk Shot, since I haven't had much time to test it. In the few battles I've had, I've missed Rock Blast as well.

    [​IMG]

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    Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Trick


    Now Rotom-F is a standard on Hail teams, though it seems that the SubSplit set has risen in popularity. I'm a fan of the good ol' fashioned Scarf set, which abuses Hail a little
    less in exchange for multiple revenge killing opportunities. Blizzard is my most powerful move, but I rarely spam it unless I feel that I've done enough damage to the opponent's team. Base 107 Special Atk isn't exactly spectacular, so I really need to take advantage of the copious amount of residual damage that my team can inflict to get those KOs I
    need. Volt Switch is my main spamming move because of that, especially since it is occasionally my lead to get the jump on non-Scarfed Cinccinos. I used to have Will-O-Wisp
    instead of Thunderbolt, but I felt that I needed the boost in power more often than I needed to Burn enemies. Trick has actually been the least used move on this team,
    especially since I rarely have trouble with walls in general. Still, there aren't many other options that really appeal to me either, and Trick still saw more use than Will-O-
    Wisp.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Samurott @ Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Blizzard
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Taunt


    After speaking so highly of Swords Dance Samurott, one would expect me to actually USE the set on this team. However, I find that Special Samurott has more utility for me,
    especially since I like to keep my opponent's from setting up/statusing me as much as possible. Hydro Pump almost always KOs Regirock, while I have HP Grass to neuter most of
    the Sturdy Rock leads. With Taunt, I rarely have to worry about my opponent's getting up hazards while Samurott is standing guard, though it takes some excellent double
    switching on my part to maintain a hazard free field. Blizzard is an excellent jump up from Ice Beam, and in Hail I can use it to its fullest advantage. Samurott is my first
    line of defense against walls, especially the Alomomoonguss core. Sure, Blizzard won't KO Amoonguss, but with Hail negating its item recovery, it has to switch out a couple of
    times to regain enough HP to wall the subsequent Blizzards from Rotom-F (that's assuming that they don't accidentally switch in on a Blizzard/Hydro Pump in the first place). The Timid nature may not be as necessary with the weakening of Ludicolo in Hail, but I find that the extra Speed comes in handy for stopping the faster walls from crippling me(Miltank especially).

    [​IMG]

    And finally, the surprise member of the team:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Pinsir @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - X-Scissor
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge


    Pinsir is surprisingly effective in the Hail metagame, especially as a Hail check. While it can't take Blizzards, it does outspeed about half of a standard hail team (Snover,
    Duosion, Rock setter, slow Hail abusers). If the opposing Sawk is a Choice Banded Adamant variant, then Pinsir can also outspeed and revenge kill (if they lock themselves into
    Stone Edge, then they have other problems to deal with). The only true threats to Pinsir on a Hail team are the Scarfers and Rotom-F, who must be dealt with according to its
    set. Jolly is necessary in order to at least Speed tie Banded Sawk and other base 85s. I use Swords Dance whenever I have the opportunity, as Pinsir is rather weak without a
    boost. X-Scissor, Close Combat, and Stone Edge give Pinsir decent coverage; I do admit that I sometimes wish I had Earthquake and/or Quick Attack, but those occasions are rare.
    Moxie is the highlight of Pinsir's stylish arsenal, letting me gain power with each KO. Moxie allows me to break through opposing walls pretty easily, and I can sweep whole
    teams once the faster Pokemon are out of the way. Lum Berry is an odd choice of item, but status is terribly crippling for Pinsir. Being able to set up a Swords Dance safely
    against an Alomomola has often allowed me to Moxie my way to victory, since Lum Berry negates Toxic and Scald Burns. While its power starts of mediocre and its base 85 Speed is
    only above average at best, it still allows me to shred Gardevoir, Musharna, and Duosion; these Pokemon are pretty tough to take down, even for a Hail team.

    [​IMG]
    Threats:

    Eelektross: While physical variants aren't that threatening, Special variants can guarantee at least 1 KO on my team before I can KO it. Its huge bulk lets it always live at least
    a single hit, meaning that I must hit it twice to truly defeat it.
    Charizard: If they manage to set up Sunny Day, then I must rely on Golem and Rotom-F to revenge kill it. Choice variants are a bit easier, since they have to deal with a lot of
    residual damage (Hail means they can only switch in on Rocks twice).
    Arbok: A pain to deal with, since only Rotom-F can really revenge kill it. Nothing I have can KO it except Golem, who dies to an Aqua Tail/Seed Bomb after Hail damage (stupid
    double edged sword).
    Articuno: With such massive bulk, it can take advantage of hail and spam Blizzard/Ice Beam and Hurricane at me. Very little on my team can stop it if it is Timid, since Pinsir
    must rely on a Speed tie. Golem dies to Ice Beam/Blizzard after Hail. Garbodor can't reliably KO it unless it is at least partially weakened.
    Combusken: A massive threat, since it outspeeds most of my team after a Protect. The Special Attacking set can 1-2HKO my entire team easily as well, and the only one that can
    beat it hates taking Focus Blasts. Good thing it is rare though.
    Emboar: Is more of a threat if I don't know its set, or if it sets up a Substitute.
    Exeggutor: With some proper switching, it may manage to set up a Sunny Day, meaning I'll be forced to switch Snover in sooner or later.
    Floatzel: If it sets up Rain, it outspeeds my whole team. Whether it can single handedly beat my team is debatable, but it will definitely deter Snover from switching into its
    Brick Break.
    Linoone: If it sets up a Belly Drum, I'm practically swept. If Snover, Garbodor, and hazards are still up, I have a chance to take it out passively though.
    Rotom-F: SubSplit is a monster to deal with, since I have to find a way to break its Sub before I can revenge kill with my own Rotom-F. Specs and Scarf are more handle-able.
    Samurott: Just as Samurott is a pain for opposing Hail teams, it is a pain for my own. Physical variants are manageable, but will break through at least one of my Pokemon before I can stop it. Special variants are more manageable, but can stop Golem from setting up.
    Swanna/Mantine: They are major threats if Rain is up, but manageable if it is not. Rotom-F still beats them though, and they aren't exactly thrilled at taking too many hits from any of my Pokemon.
    Tauros: It is a massive threat, since Sheer Force negates its own Life Orb recoil and Earthquake can get around Garbodor. It outspeeds everything but Rotom-F, who can't switch
    in; Scarf variants outspeed my whole team. An underrated threat to many teams that should be used more.

    Shoutouts
    Agent Dell: You are the first guy I've really talked to here! I've watched you grow as a battler, so here's to the guy then and now!
    Sweet Jesus: As guy number 2 that I met, I also watched you grow in battling. You were the start of our trio that turned into a cute little group. OMG, this is getting too sappy. :pimp:slaps for the both of you!
    Don Honkrorleone: You are definitely the glue that keeps our group together. You also have the coolest gimmicks and just overall inventive sets and mons. You get :toast:
    Incon: You've been busy lately, but you are definitely a major force in our group. Again, watching you grow, yada, yada, :heart:
    Majestic Electric: The only girl in our group, it's up to the two of us to suppress the heavy testosterone of 5 guys. As the H** to my F** (omg, that's insulting to all f's and h's).
    Zebraiken: For being an overall cool mog and guy, being near impossible for me to beat, and for your Garbodor set that I borrowed permanently.
    EBeast, citro, MMF: For not laughing at my team when I showed it to you! :nerd:
    Annoyer: <3 for doing your daily chore, even if it's not daily.
    #neverused: The people I talk to (I'm a generally quiet guy) for talking to me. Too many people to name for me. Extra luv for my fellow rater FLCL, since his rates are great! Zeb's too, but they instigate a bit of a grammar nazi in me. :)
    Uxsee: Not on much lately, but a part of our group too.

    Importable (open)

    Snover @ Eviolite
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 156 SDef / 100 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Toxic
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect

    Golem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Sucker Punch

    Samurott @ Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Blizzard
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Taunt

    Pinsir @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - X-Scissor
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge

    Garbodor @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Aftermath
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Spikes
    - Toxic
    - Pain Split
    - Rock Blast

    Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Trick



    Well, thank you Smogon readers for reading this long RMT! I hope you will consider critiquing this team. For any newcomers, take a gander over to the Neverused tier! :pimp:
  2. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

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    ludicolo can cause a lot of disruption to this team, being able to cancel out your hail and then proceeding to do serious damage to most of your pokemon. to fix this, you can run toxic over giga drain on snover to ensure that opposing ludicolo will always lose the one-on-one matchup. blizzard or giga drain just doesn't do enough damage with a defensive spread from my experiences. the only pokemon you miss out on are water-types which can be stalled out by toxic and leech seed or be handled by rotom-f. additionally, toxic is useful for crippling piloswine, which can be a huge pain for your team to face if samurott is down.

    you might also want to try out gunk shot over rock blast on garbodor to make sure that ludicolo does not set up on that either. you already have a better rock blast user in golem, and gunk shot makes sure other frail sweepers such as absol, linoone, or sawsbuck won't set up on you with ease.


    summary of changes:

    giga drain —> toxic on snover
    rock blast —> gunk shot on garbodor


    excellent team wdm, it's a great representation of the current hail metagame :toast:
  3. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Thanks FLCL! I'm going to definitely try Toxic over Giga Drain on Snover. As for Gunk Shot, I'll test that out too (though I'm pretty unlucky with that move).
  4. ium

    ium dein haar riecht gut
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

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    fuckn flcl i talked about toxic on irc

    snover / golem / garbodor / choice scarf rotom-f / special samurott / sd pinsir

    but yes, snover seems to be your primary answer to ludicolo, so i would definitely run toxic over giga drain to actually hurt it.

    you could also try out hidden power electric on samurott to hit mantine and swanna so that you don't have to rely on stalling out rain turns before sending rotom-f in. seismitoad isn't that huge of a problem in comparison to those two, and sludge wave is often neglected for stealth rock so it wouldn't do much to snover in that case. if it does happen to have sludge wave and life orb, snover only takes around 50% while you wear it down considerably.

    finally, i think you're kind of exaggerating your threats a tiny bit since you give them a hard time to set up, but running earthquake over stone edge (not close combat because hitting piloswine and not missing against other ice-types is important) on pinsir can be used to hit arbok harder. i don't really know if you want to do that as arbok is rather rare and you might want to hit some flying-types, so this is optional.

    summary:
    toxic giga drain snover / golem / garbodor / choice scarf rotom-f / hidden power electric grass special samurott / earthquake stone edge* sd pinsir
    * optional

    i'm really just nitpicking; can't find much else to change with this team. :)
  5. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Thanks ium! HP Electric sounds like a decent change, and you're right, I don't particularly fear Seismitoad. Arbok, Seviper, and Muk are rare enough that I would rather be able to KO non-Scarf Braviary instead, but I'll test it out and see. Toxic is a yes.

    @Strategywin: no, no Specs Glaceon here from the looks of it.
  6. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,709
    This... this isn't really a hail team though is it? It has 2 ice types, 3 ice moves... It's like Ludicolo on a sunny day team! While the team itself is good, the idea of it being a hailt team isn't... because it's not a hail team! O:

    You're completely weak to sub sweepers like musharna. Completely. You have 2 psychic checks, pinsir and sucker punch, but sucker punch isn't going to get rid of Musharna, and while megahorn could, some sweepers might give it a burn so it doesn't KO it (lampent stopping stone edge for instance) so I suggest being able to combat psychic types better, possibly with shadow ball/ ominous wind/ hex on Rotom freeze!
  7. citro

    citro

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    The fact that Snover is on WhiteDMist's team means that it's a hail team. He's not just going to put 6 ice-types on a team and call it a day; that causes some very limited coverage and synergy issues and can't deal with a lot of threats to hail.

    Disregarding the fact that Musharna will never use Substitute anyway, it's not a threat to his team because not only does he have Pinsir to kill it, Hail negates its Moonlight recovery to only 1/4 HP. The scenario you mentioned doesn't make sense because Lampent is slower than Pinsir (and even things that could burn it like SubWisp Gardevoir are stopped cold by Lum Berry). An extra ghost move on Rotom-Frost isn't a fantastic idea because STAB Blizzard outdamages even a super effective Shadow Ball.

    Excellent team WhiteDMist. Luvdisc'd =)
  8. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Actually, this IS a Hail team. Please note the Snover inducing Hail, and Rotom-F/Samurott abusing Blizzard. Hail teams DO NOT require 3 or more Icce-types; that is rather ignorant to say actually, since this is tre within all tiers and metagames (except for mono-type). As for Sub sweepers, citro already explained the Psychic Sub users. As for any other Sub user, I have: Samurott to Taunt them, Golem to break their Subs and hit them, and if worse comes to worst, Rotom-F to revenge kill after I sac a mon to break their Sub. Besides Lampent being rare, it is pretty easily removed from the equation with Golem, Samurott, and Pinsir. So there is really no reason to put a non-STAB Ghost move on Rotom-F, especially when Blizzard does more to most of them anyways. Thanks for the effort of rating though!

    @citro: Thanks for the rate! You basically pointed out everything I wanted to say! :heart:
  9. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Bumping. I'll also mention that after testing out the suggestions, I've decided on Toxic for Snover. However, I feel that I still need Rock Blast on Garbodor because my team has a lot of trouble dealing with Articuno once it gets behind a Sub. Any thoughts?
  10. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

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    if you find yourself not using either toxic or pain split enough then gunk shot could go over one of those moves. i just really dislike the fact that garbodor has to rely on toxic or rock blast to prevent the opponent from setting up, but it's up to you.

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