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So... You can't check every threat in 5th Gen OU huh? My Ass

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by New World Order, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 15, 2009

    So, recently, I've seen a lot of complaints about there being "too many threats" in 5th Gen OU, and no matter what you do, you're always going to be weak to multiple pokemon. But I have made many teams that had a response to the most common sets of most of the common pokemon. Keep in mind that response doesn't mean counter, something like an Agility Lucario would often leave me going: what the hell just happed. So getting tired of the people complaining on Dragonspiral that "weather makes it too hard to make teams", I decided to take it upon myself to create a team that could check EVERY Pokemon in the OU range.

    First, I need to define "check": a check is something that can surely win against another. It does not necessarily mean a pokemon needs to be able to switch in 100 times on something. It just means that the pokemon should be able to come out of every matchup the winner. As well, revenge killing qualifies as a "check" since you come out the winner. Considering how for some pokemon like Hydreigon and Salamence, there are nearly no counters, and you can only revenge kill. I also wanted to ensure that no playstyle could be a particular bother to my team as well, so I had to keep that in mind when making the team. I came up with a list of all the possible playstyles: Weather Offense, Weather Stall, Weather Balance, Heavy/ Hyper Offense, Balance, Stall, Baton Pass.

    After experimenting with about 30 different teams, no exaggeration, I've come up with one. I've also included a list of how this team deals with every threat in OU. As well as every playstyle. The team itself is a whore-ish sand team. There is next to nothing special about it, so I'll skip you the pain of reading a 500000 word team building process. All I'm trying to prove is that while time consuming, it is possible to create a team that has virtually no weaknesses. Why? Because I've come up with one with outright no weaknesses.

    The Team Itself, Screw Creativity:

    Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
    Sand Stream
    252 Hp/ 180 SpA/ 76 SpD
    - Stealth Rock
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Fire Blast

    So, weather is still around for another round, u mad bro?[​IMG] Standard Tyranitar, nothing special about it. Tyranitar's job main job is obviously to set up weather. Chople Berry is to ensure that the team doesn't get raped by Trick Room Reuniclus. Crunch is an obligatory STAB, Pursuit just wont cut it. In my opinion, the gayest Tyranitar set in OU is Stealth Rock, Pursuit, Ice Beam, Fire Blast. You're pretty much asking Reuniclus to rape you. Anyways, Pursuit is there so I have a fuck you button against the Latii twins, Starmie, and Celebi. I run Fire Blast mainly because I hate bells (except end of the school day bells) but it also comes in handy against Skarmory and Ferrothorn. Oh yeah, and I changed my Tyranitar to shiny on PO just because of this picture.

    Excadrill @ Life Orb
    Sand Rush
    252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Hp
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - X-Scissor

    It turns out that Excadrill is actually not only a botched reincarnation of a digimon, it also carries genes of history's most infamous anti-Semnite. I think the reason that everybody wants the guy banned is because Excadrill comes onto Smogon every day spouting his Aryan supremacy, offending just about everyone on the forum.[​IMG] Kinda reminds me of that douchebag New World Order. But even though Excadrill is a proven racist, I do not believe it justifies a ban. Sure it goes around threatening war and genocide, but it hasn't committed these fouls yet, and we shouldn't punish him for a law he hasn't broken. As well, behind that pompous, insensitive jerk is actually a timid, lonely lass who fears scorpions. The whole Nazi thing is just a cover up for its true nature. Anyways, for those of you who haven't dialed 911 yet, I mainly use Excadrill as a revenge killer mid game, then bring him out for cleanup when the coast is clear. Air Balloon is fail, and I use Adamant Life Orb like everyone else should, but doesn't.

    Landorus @ Choice Scarf
    Sand Force
    252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 SpA
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Miss Edge
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - U-Turn

    Alright, so I've figured out why Landorus is no longer suspect and Sand Force does x1.3 instead of x1.5: Landorus has become a pussy who cares about nothing besides gardening. Just look at that treehugger with no balls! Instead of swords, it now carries around a pink scarf. Although I can't blame him, pink scarves just make people so much faster. Usain Bolt wears a pink scarf when he practices; they just make people feel so much more confident and secure. [​IMG] Anyways, Landorus' 101 Speed makes it a great candidate for a Choice Scarf, it trolls so many things. Volcorona? Trolled! DD Mence? Trolled! Stone Edge kinda sucks, but hey, what are you going to use instead? Smack Down? Hidden Power Ice is mainly for Gliscor, but also offers a more reliable way to take out Salamence and Dragonite. Since Landorus' only priority is its stupid garden. It U-Turns out whenever it feels its precious plants are being threatened.

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    252 Hp/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird

    In other news, I know what I want for Christmas now!:naughty: Skarmory is one of the most successful species in the pokemon kingdom. Although the species lacks diversity, it boasts many traits that allow it to thrive in the vast desert environment. Its impenetrable armor allows it to survive even the most vicious of onslaughts. It's capable of spraying its spikes everywhere to deter opposing species. It's also capable of blowing away the daring organisms who dare enter its territory. It's also apparently capable of camouflage as well! Unfortunately, ever species in the pokemon kingdom has its natural predator. In the case of the Skarmory, that predator is the magnet. Skarmory's tough hide protects it from axe faced dragons and terrorizing moles, yet it is slain by fucking magnets. Nature is cruel that way. Each autumn, flocks of Skarmory arrive in backyards with large trees and basketball hoops. Here they roost and perhaps find a mate: to carry on the legacy of this unique and resilient species.

    Celebi @ Life Orb
    Natural Cure
    232 Hp/ 240 SpA/ 36 Spe
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Psychic
    - Rest

    So I've also figured out how Celebi has jumped from UU to top 20 OU: that whore has been sleeping her (its?) way to the top. Look at that poor Grovyle, its trying to resist the allure, but it doesn't stand a chance. For even some of OU's best have caved to temptation.:heart: Celebi is currently simultaneously carrying the children of Rotom-W, Politoed, Ferrothorn, Conkeldurr, Terrakion, and many others. Now that I've officially creeped you out (yeah right, if you haven't stopped reading by Excadrill or Landorus, you are most likely psychotic) you can probably see that this is probably the closest thing I have to surprise. But screw creativity, I've got tons of wierd sets, I just need standards to accomplish my current goal. Leaf Storm is the STAB of choice, and HP Fire is to ensure Scizors can't blindly come in. I originally had a regular Tinkerbell, but I added Psychic to address my Virizion weakness. Rest not only heals Celebi to max Hp with all the sand and Life Orb recoil taking a toll, it also technically removes status because Celebi wakes up by switching out. Its not like Celebi ever stays in for more than 3 turns anyways. Rest is also coincidentally the move Celebi likely uses after she has had her way with Rotom-W and the gang.

    Garchomp Just Kidding
    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 SpD
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power Fire/ Grass/ Ice/ whatever, just not Hidden Power Poison
    - Trick

    Gotcha! Although checking every threat in the metagame would surely be a lot easier if I had access to a Garchomp.[​IMG] Anyways, Rotom-W is perhaps the MVP of my team. It offers many useful resistances such as water and ground, while patching up issues against the likes of Scizor and Gyarados. This guy is, along with Landorus, one of my primary scouts. It allows me to revenge kill many dangerous threats such as SD Terrakion and Thundurus, while providing me with an incredibly valuable pivot. The best part about Rotom-W is that it often gives me the turn I need to set up. Just simply trick the scarf onto somebody using and electric type to finish off Rotom-W, then swap to Excadrill and its usually game over. Rotom-W is the glue that keeps this team from imploding on itself, and the only reason I used a Garchomp picture instead is because there aren't any funny ones for the washing machine of doom.

    Dealing With Every Pokemon:
    Show Hide

    Tyranitar: Drill it with a mole
    Rotom-W: Use pixie dust (Leaf Storm)
    Scizor: Toss it into a washing machine
    Ferrothorn: Bait it in with a washing machine, breathe on it with Tyranitar, or just power through with a drill
    Dragonite: Just throw some rocks or something up, and uhh, hit it with more rocks.
    Politoed: washing machine (or alien for defensive versions)
    Gliscor: washing machine of doom, alien if necessary
    Heatran: Washing machine of doom (again) genie or Drimogemon if it has no balloon
    Jirachi: Genie and mole (Landorus actually trolls Scarfrachi's although those are rarely ever used anymore... Scarfrachi isn't even that bad a set)
    Latios: Once again, if Tyranitar can check it, its OU, if not, its Ubers
    Excadrill: Skarm ensures it doesn't get that +2, Rotom-W and Landorus can finish if Exca is at +0. If I learn it lacks X-Scissor, Celebi.
    Skarmory: Washing machine of doom (there's a reason this guy is MVP)
    Thundurus: revenge from Excadrill, Landorus, and Rotom-W
    Reuniclus: see Latios. Trick Room versions are shut down as well due to Chople
    Deoxys-S: I usually lead with Ttar, switch to Celebi on the Superpower, then kill with Leaf Storm or whatever I predict.
    Haxorus: Get in Skarm and MOAR SPIKES
    Ninetails: What doesn't counter Ninetails? In all honesty, just win the weather war. Sawsbuck is taken on by Skarm, Victini by Ttar himself, blahblahblah, the rest are explained in this section.
    Conkeldurr: Celebi can shrug off a Payback and start spamming attacks
    Celebi: Ttar. Drill mole can also give it a much needed haircut
    Forretress: What doesn't counter Forretress?
    Terrakion: Celebi for the double booster. Excadrill can easily win vs the Scarf/ Band versions.
    Gyarados: Rotom-W. I don't give a shit about those Sub DD versions, since I can just switch to Landorus. There, you die anyways.
    Gengar: Chopletar ftw, I can revenge it if necessary
    Starmie: Err... pretty much everyone except Skarm can hit it hard.
    Landorus: The bird and the washing machine of doom
    Jellicent: Spam fairy glitter
    Infernape: revenge kill with the wachine (I actually type waching instead of washing by accident, but decided that I wanted to call Rotom-W a wachine on the spot) or genie
    Volcorona: revenge kill with the genie or the mole
    Tentacruel: EQ
    Gastrodon: When I was his alien... Roger Smith
    Magnezone: EQ
    Espeon: See Baton Pass for more details, but basically, Tyranitar
    Blissey: anything physical
    Salamence: Landorus can revenge kill this guy
    Hydreigon: Just revenge it with Excadrill
    Breloom: Celebi laughs at this thing all day long. It doesn't even mind spore since it can just get rid of it the next time out.
    Vaporeon: The washing machine of doom and the alien.
    Latias: Ttar or revenge it with Excadrill
    Toxicroak: EQ its ass. Even in the rain, Drimogemon is faster.
    Lucario: Revenge kill if necessary, but usually, Rotom-W can switch in on the SD, Trick its scarf onto it, and then I can play as necessary.
    Bronzong: Ttar and the wachine just need to dent it enough for +2 X-Scissor to break through. Bout 40% is usually good.
    Virizion: Lets play alien invasion.
    Scrafty: Skarmory is the best answer here
    Venusaur: Perhaps the closest thing to a problem for this team. I absolutely cannot let this thing set up... which is why everyone on the team has a move to hit it hard.
    Metagross: Cell absorbs androids
    Meinshao: Skarm can take an HJK and take it out with Brave Bird, although I wont like Skarm's Hp value after though...
    Cloyster: Skarmory takes those hits all day.
    Swampert: Cell was able to take on multiple super saiyans. What the hell is some frog gonna do to it.
    Mew: Ttar. I can hit it hard with Lando if need be.
    Hippowdon: Washing machine of doom (sorry wachine, you sound too much like Washington) and the alien
    Mamoswine: Rotom charge... oh wait I'm not drunk yet
    Chansey: physical attacks, although Chansey>>>>>>>>>Blissey since it actually has a chance of surviving
    Dugtrio: See playstyle: sun offense
    Donphan: Aliens are coming.
    Chandelure: Wachine k NWO that joke is getting old
    Slowbro: Cell and its partner in crime (hint, they are the first two characters introduced in the wish story, which you shall see later)
    Darmanitan: Lando trolls it
    Jolteon: Poor guy, way too many moles around nowadays...
    Porygon2: I really just power through with repeated assaults, pretty logical.
    Machamp: Do you really think Mr Satan (Hercule depending on the version) would be able to beat Cell? Well, I guess Mr Satan is so pathetic that Cell can get confused and end up killing itself by accident.
    Kingdra: Very annoying, Celebi should be enough though.
    Quagsire: Celebi
    Tornadus: Washing machine of doom
    Abomasnow: Appropriate place to end IMO, the last weather. None of the abusers of hail are any problem tbh.

    Dealing With Every Playstyle:
    Show Hide

    Sand Offense: There's this metal bird thing, this moving washing machine, and a green fairy thing on my team. No problemo.
    Sand Balance: See sand offense, but add this evil genie on my team as well.
    Sand Stall: A washing machine and a big mean lizard take out that bird that uses too much "wing gel" and a trolling scorpion. Then a failed abortion version of the digimon Drimogemon takes care of the rest.
    Rain Offense: Puck the troublemaking fairy one day bought a magic washing machine. He rubbed it and a genie came out. The genie granted it one wish: the death of the frog prince that apparently turns into an actual prince with one kiss. Drimogemon then spams his random drills everywhere.
    Rain Balance: Reyskarmface spazzed out because everyone got a role in the last episode except him.
    Rain Stall: Drimogemon got high, so the washing machine had to fill in until it got a bell thing out of the way. Then Drimogemon went through therapy and is now no longer addicted to cocaine.
    Sun Offense: There's this 3 headed thing, which I think is an even more aborted version of Drimogemon since its still defined as a "mole". Everyone on earth can see it coming and all you have to do is not stay in, and you'll be fine. Really, just win the weather war, and I will come out the winner. Most of the common abusers are checked as well.
    Hail Offense: I use a... oh wait, this playstyle doesn't exist.
    Hail Balance: Drimogemon and the Hitlerlizard
    Hail Stall: Drimogemon and the Hitlerlizard
    Hyper Offense: Everyone on Earth can see Porthos coming considering how much he waves his Balloon around. Just toss an alien at it, then use the baked mole to finish things up.
    Offense/ Balance/ Stall: Landorus is a jerk, it makes fun of your mom for a while, then tells you to go see the pokemon threatlist.
    Baton Pass: Lead with Rotom-W, Volt Switch spam to ensure what comes in after Ninjask doesn't come with a Substitute. Swap to Skarmory, switch to Tyranitar on the Espeon switchin. Now momentum is all mine.
  2. TransparentOpacity


    Dec 16, 2009
    Doesn't a Ludicolo in rain sweep this entire team? It actually seems like a ton of rain sweepers could do a lot of damage to this team. Rotom-W can't keep switching in to all those attacks. I don't see how Celebi can switch into something like Kingdra, and it appears that Tornadus would wreck this team with Hurricane. I would suggest switching out Skarmory for Ferrothorn. It can help take hits. I don't think you would need Celebi anymore, so maybe you should change that for a Jellicent or a Slowbro. You forgot to mention how you deal with Genesect, as he seems to be deadly to this team. Cloyster can sweep most of this team, and Skarm doesn't wall it because Hydro Pump kills in 1 hit after a shell smash. I'm thinking now that maybe a Gastrodon would be a good fit for this team.
  3. kkoala


    Mar 2, 2011
    Swift swim with drizzle is illegal, so ludicolo is pretty rare... Cloyster can't really set up on anything, and is outsped by Excadrill in sand (if i'm not mistaken). Also, genesect is illegal to use in any ladder outside of dw, which this isn't even for that tier.
  4. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 15, 2009
    Damp Rock+Swift Swim strategies are dealt with by a pretty simple strategy. When you see Kingdra, Ludicolo, Kabutops and crew, with no Politoed, you know for a fact that this is a Damp Rock Rain team. Immediately, lead with Rotom-W. The opponent will likely lead with Thundurus, Tornadus, or Kingdra to set up rain. Rotom-W Volt Switches to Celebi as they attempt to get up rain Celebi can now fire off a Leaf Storm or Psychic, removing something from the game. (except Tornadus who gets KOd anyways by Volt Switch) Skarmory is near useless against rain dance teams. Sac to the swift swimmer and bring out Tyranitar. Go to Rotom-W again as they bring out a new rain dancer to remove another pokemon from the game. Do this again with Landorus, rinse and repeat. By now 3/4 of the opposing team has been destroyed with only Skarm and Landorus gone. More likely than not, the rain dancers are all gone as well. Now Excadrill can close off the match, if there's still something kicking around thats troublesome, Exca can be saced as well, as Rotom-W and Celebi are more than enough to close off any match.

    As for Cloyster, it can't set up on anybody except maybe Landorus. Versions with Hydro Pump are rare, and even if one does catch Skarmory off guard, I can still take it out with a combination of Ttar/ Excadrill.
  5. HBK

    HBK Subtlety is my middle name

    May 25, 2009
    Hey there,nice team you have here.However,you have a glaring weakness to strong fighting moves coming from pokes like CBTerrakion and to a lesser extent CBConkeldurr.Everything on your team gets 2HKO'ed/OHKO'ed by STAB CC.Excadrill and Landorus only temporarily halt it's rampage while it can effortlessly switch out and switch back in later.To remedy this I'd like to suggest Slowbro over Landorus(252 hp 252 def 4 spdef Bold with Scald,Slack Off,Ice Beam and Fire Blast/Toxic/Thunder Wave).You can revenge kill Volcarona with Excadrill anyway and 'Mence dies to Ice Beam.Also change Skarm's item to Shed Shell.Good luck!
  6. Razza


    Mar 26, 2011
    A sub version of volcarona looks like it could give you some problems, as do other excadrill to an extent, i would run a bulkygyarados over rotom-w as excadrill can act as a revenge killer
  7. Jirachee

    Jirachee scootin
    is a Tournament Directoris an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Leader

    Sep 24, 2010
    Hey there,

    This is a nice team, but however Sun teams can prove themselves to be quite a problem for it, especially their Chlorophyll abusers with their power Grass STAB and Fire coverage moves. They can win the weather war pretty easily with Dugtrio as you use Chople Tyranitar, and then Venusaur, the most threatening to your team, can grab a Growth on Rotom-W and proceed to sweep your entire team with Energy Ball and HP Fire. To ensure you can win more battles against Sun teams, I suggest you swap your Rotom-W for a Latias. Latias will help you a lot in your battles against sun as it resists both of Venusaur's most common moves, altough it gets hit for a big amount by Sludge Bomb, which is rather rare. It's able to set up Calm Minds on it and then pummel it with a powerful boosted Hidden Power Fire. Here's the Latias set you should use :
    Latias (open)

    Latias @ Leftovers
    EVs : 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Hidden Power Fire
    -Calm Mind

    Good luck!
  8. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 15, 2009
    @ HBK: Conkeldurr has been no problem whatsoever. Celebi and Skarmory have it checked. Terrakion can be revenge killed by Excadrill, Landorus, Rotom-W and Celebi wins 1v1 as long as CB Terrakion doesn't use X-Scissor. However, I'll still give Slowbro a whirl, since it may allow me to replace Celebi with a more reliable check to Rotom-W/ Virizion/ and perhaps a sun check even.

    @ Razza: I have Skarmory, Celebi, Rotom-W, and Landorus. The only way I could be less weak against Excadrill is to add a Gliscor. Sub Volcorona has caused some problems, but I can predict the switchin to Celebi and Skarmory (they ALWAYS do) and swap to Landorus. Gyara would open up too many weaknesses. I will try playing around with a more reliable SubVolcorona though.

    @ Jirachi: Bingo, Venusaur with a boost is the biggest problem for this team. So far, I've just been caring a move to hit it hard with on every one of my pokes. Replacing Rotom-W for Latias would open up more weaknesses than it fixes though. I'm going to give Slwbro over Landorus a try, which may make Celebi obsolete. I may consider Latias in this spot after that.
  9. NatGeo

    NatGeo ¡Órale!
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 4, 2010
    Imo Sun teams with Dugtrio really do get the better of this team if they catch Tyranitar on a Stealth Rock or other move Dugtrio can come on easily. Once Tar goes down Growth Venusaur easily dispatches most of your team with a Grass attack along with HP Fire. Volcarona isn't friendly either though I think you take care of it easily with Scarf Landorus as it is. Other Chlorophyll sweepers are almost as bad as Venu but Sleep Powder allows it to get at +2 or +4 which lets it plow through. DDNite on sun teams is also a bit of problem if you don't have hazards up, as if it carries Fire Punch it can go straight through Skarmory. The easiest thing which you can do in my mind to patch this up is to replace Celebi for the previously mentioned Calm Mind Latias, who takes care of not only the threats that you say Celebi takes care of but also sun as well.

    Some nitpicky things which could also help: Try a Shed Shell on Skarmory if you're having trouble with Magnezone and to give you an extra edge against Drag+Mag teams. It allows you to take care of any Dragonite as well if you can bait them into using Outrage against one of your team members. It's a bit gutsy, but w/e Shed Shell is a good option. Female Skarmory is also a good idea. The previously mentioned CM+HP Fire Latias also takes care of Virizion, so use that! Also, I think it might be worth your time to try a bulky Choice Specs set with Volt Switch / Signal Beam / HP Grass / Hydro Pump so you can nail most threats on rain teams on the switch in. I'd probably use the standard EVs for bulky Rotom-W, but honestly whatever floats your boat fits here. I honestly don't find speed THAT important on Rotom-W and on this team it needs the bulk.

    In summary,

    -Try Calm Mind Latias over Celebi
    -Put Shed Shell on Skarmory and make it female
    -Try a bulky Rotom-W spread to give you further assurance against rain.

    Hope this rate helped and good luck.
  10. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Jun 25, 2011
    Whats a sash broken Lucario going to do against Excadrill? Hello!

    Also, Volcarona CAN be a threat if it set up to much as after 3 QD it will outspeed Excadrill even in sand. Believe me, I learned that the hard way. Just don't let it set up and you fine, or force it out.

    Excadrill is so much better on Life Orb + Adamant I agree (since, the answer for him is the washing machine of doom anyways).

    Rock Slide over Landorus? Stone Edge never hits (i tried one time tom many -__-) I perfer banded set as it does a lot more damage, I'm not sure what it can/can't outspeed with our without scarf so just wanted to mention that.

    Nothing much to say, this team is a great team! I wish it luck (and that some of the players of Dragonspire Tower took a look, although they'll probably say "thats the reason sand should go, I AM TO PUSSY TO TAKE IT". I stopped reading it now, because its total BS and i am sure Smogon knows this *How many times do we have to prove it does it take for them to understand?*)


    Rotom can take out mostly everything packed on them bar (Dragonite/Venasuar/Tanglegrowth/Sawsbuck)/ Lets see, you already mentioned how to take out most of those with your team. Latias may be a good idea, although STAB leaf storm kinda looks important to this team. Just make sure you win the weather war, and Excadrill can take care of the rest of Sun Teams. Tbh, sun teams are not as common as rain teams, and you can take that pretty well to.

    With that, good luck man :)
  11. WhiteQueen

    WhiteQueen ...
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Past SPL Championwon the 11th Official Smogon Tournament

    Aug 6, 2009
    not really a rate, just wanted to say that your descriptions cracked me up hahaha
  12. TransparentOpacity


    Dec 16, 2009
    Oh I didn't know drizzle + siwift swim was banned. If that's true, then shouldn't sand storm + all those sand abilities be banned too?
  13. CheezyMoon


    May 23, 2011
    No, because Exca is the only real threat with Sand Rush, which has solid counters and a lot of checks.
  14. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Jun 25, 2011
    The reason why Drizzle + Swift Swim ban was b/c there was to many pokemon that can abuse Swift Swim.
    San + Sand Rush is like 2 pokemon (4 including there pre-evolutions)

    So, hope this clears that up.
  15. Stunt


    Dec 23, 2010
    May I inquire what ladder account you are using?
  16. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Sep 28, 2010
    Why not use Giga Drain over Leaf Storm? Giga Drain won't give you the -2 SpAtk drop and force you to switch out if your opponent brings in something like Ferrothorn in the rain (which can cause this team quite a bit of trouble if you happen to lose the weather war). Giga Drain will also give you some additional recovery so you are not forced to use Rest a turn early. Unless Leaf Storm nets a specific KO that I missed, it would seem like Giga Drain is a superior choice

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