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Solar Eclipse (Sun Offense)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Edgar, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Edgar

    Edgar
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    957
    The Title is just a filler because I couldn't think of something else haha. I made a team like 3 weeks ago while I was bored, I really wanted to use a Sun based Offensive team so I came out with this.
    The team at glance:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    The first thing you will notice is that I don't have Ho-Oh, Reshiram or other Pokemon that could benefit from the sun, the reason why I built it this way is that I didn't want to be that weak to hazards, even though my team doesn't give enough opportunities for my opponents to set up too much hazards you never know, also another reason is that I couldn't fit a spinner. Let's get into the individual analysis.


    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-A @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 68 Atk / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Spikes
    - Ice Beam
    - Superpower
    - Hidden Power [Fire]


    I chose Deoxys-A because it has always been a good lead, my buddy Problems showed me one of his teams which had Spikes Deoxys-A so I decided to try it out myself. Magic Bouncers can't switch in to Deoxys-A reliably so they shouldn't switch them to this. Speed EVs are enough to outspeed Modest/Adamant base 90 Scarfed pokes, that allows me to set up 2 layers of Spikes before dying. I'll leave a separated explaination for each attack(except for Spikes which I already explained).
    Show Hide
    Ice Beam: Dragons in general and Groudon.
    Superpower: Lead Dialga, Extreemkiller Arceus, 0 Hp Kyogre, Palkia.
    Hidden Power Fire: Forretress(we first hit it with something else so we don't activate Custap Berry and then we use HP Fire).


    [​IMG]
    Groudon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Punch
    - Rock Slide


    Groudon is, as you can already see the Stealth Rock user of this team, I chose Life Orb over Lum Berry over Earth Plate just so I can 2hko 252 Evs Arceus because Arceus Ghost and just setup Arceus in general is very annoying against this team. Offensive Groudon also allows me to keep offensive pressure against Physically defensive Kyogre since it is 2HKOd by Life Orb Earthquake. I'll proceed to explain the moves(Aside from Stealth Rock of course).
    Show Hide
    Earthquake: STAB move 2HKOs a lot of Pokemon
    Fire Punch: OHKOs Forretress and Ferrothorn in the sun(It could also be switched with Dragon Claw since it's not used that much).
    Rock Slide: Hits Ho-Oh, Lugia and Rayquaza(>Implying people switch in Rayquaza to Groudon lol).



    [​IMG]
    Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Stone Edge
    - Spacial Rend
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Tail

    Palkia is probably the MVP of this team alongside Genesect. I chose Lustrous Orb over a choice item or Haban Berry because I wanted more power on my main STAB move that being Spacial Rend. Also, you may notice that I also have a Latias in this team, Palkia's main job is not fighting Kyogre but forcing switches since it doesn't have a counter for every situational since its moveset cannot be guessed that easily. Moves:
    Show Hide

    Stone Edge:People may think is gimmicky and stupid but it helps keeping the offensive momentum in this team killing Ho-Oh, some of my friends told me to run Hydro Pump instead of it but, to be honest Ho-Oh still stalls Palkia in the Sun since it barely 2hkos, Spacial Rend + Stone Edge definetly kills Ho-Oh.
    Dragon Tail: Since Palkia forces switches Dragon Tail is very good for shuffling my opponent's pokemon as well as abusing the hazards, it also helps catching set up sweepers that would set up in front of a Palkia.
    Fire Blast: Helps me deal with Steel types in general.
    Spacial Rend: Main STAB, boosted by Lustrous Orb.



    [​IMG]
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SAtk / 224 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Beam
    - Explosion


    I won't explain this Pokemon's set as much as the other ones since it's a standard set already. I chose Genesect because is Palkia's best partner you could say, it forces switches with U-Turn, Pokemon that generally switch in to Genesect's U-Turn can be taken care of by Palkia. Genesect holding the Choice Scarf helps me deal with Kyurem, Dragon Dance Rayquaza, as well as other base 90 Choice Scarf users, and even Calm Mind Arceus if I get lucky, Genesect just fits very well in this team.


    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 136 HP / 176 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Roar
    - Recover


    Latias is probably my favorite Pokemon to use in Ubers, it's just so viable in the offensive side while being a major wall as well. Standard Speed EVs (enough to outspeed Garchomp). It's my main Kyogre switch in, it can take any attack (aside from Sheer Cold of course) and counter with a powerful Draco Meteor, Latias cannot fight Specs Kyogre locked into Ice Beam though, what I do after I see specs Ice Beam is switch into Arceus or Genesect and gain some offensive momentum. Moves:
    Show Hide

    Draco Meteor: STAB, OHKOs Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock
    Hidden Power Fire: Helps me kill Forretress and Ferrothorn in the Sun
    Roar: A move that may look bad in this set. My thought Process is very simple, a -2 Latias is bait for any set up sweepers (anything really), Latias works kinda like Palkia, baits set up sweepers and then Roars them out as well as causing a lot of damage due to the entry hazards.
    Recover: Standard Recovery move.



    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Dragon (Arceus-Ghost) @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 140 HP / 116 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Judgment
    - Focus Blast
    - Recover


    I don't really have much explanation for Arceus, I was debating this and Giratina-O for a spin blocker. Even though I could have used Swords Dance I figured out that Calm Mind would benefit me more. with the EV spread I gave, Focus Blast will have a high chance of 2HKOing 0 HP Arceus (100% of 2HKO after SR), it is also a very good late game cleaner when Ho-Oh is gone. 140 HP EVs allow me to have as much HP as a Max HP Lugia,max Speed as always.

    Biggest Threats:

    Double Dance Groudon (depending on coverage moves)
    Calm Mind Arceus in general.
    Life Orb Ho-Oh
    Speed Boost Blaziken
    Latio@s
    Bulk Up Dialga
    Genesect could be annoying
    Omastar (In the rain Obviously)
    Mewtwo
    Scarf Darkrai.
    Scarf Skymin.





    I'm pretty much done lol. I'll leave the importable and some shoutouts I guess.


    Shoutouts to:

    SOTI
    IDM
    DRAZO


    Special shoutout to: Problems, Joey, Jamvad and Cheese.

    Importable:
    Show Hide
    Deoxys-A @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 68 Atk / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Spikes
    - Ice Beam
    - Superpower
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Groudon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Punch
    - Rock Slide

    Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Stone Edge
    - Spacial Rend
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Tail

    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SAtk / 224 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Beam
    - Explosion

    Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 136 HP / 176 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Roar
    - Recover

    Arceus (Arceus-Ghost) @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 140 HP / 116 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Judgment
    - Focus Blast
    - Recover
  2. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,999
    Just out of curiosity how exactly do you check/counter extremekiller? After a single swords dance it absolutely steam rolls your team since you're relying on mons that are ohko'd by extremekiller while relying on moves that have a chance of 2hko'ing.
  3. IAmAnHero

    IAmAnHero

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    62
    Since you don't have an Extremekiller check you should think about replacing Genesect with Terrakion because he can revenge kill Extremekiller. If you do replace Genesect that would remove your only Dark, Dragon, Ghost, and Ice resist and you have two or more people weak to each of those types on your team. You probably replace Deoxys A with Forretress because he can get Spikes up and resists all of those types of moves. Here are the sets.

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor

    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Gyro Ball
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes
    - Toxic/Volt Switch
  4. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    443
    First of all,solid team.

    Like mentioned above,you look kinda weak to Ekiller since it can truck through your team late game.I guess,hazards+Genesect+GhostCeus+Groudon can keep it in check,and you can probably rake up some extra damage via phazing since it'll probably try to set up on Palkia/Latias,so meh.I disagree on the Terrakion suggestion since it'll make you more weak to Mewtwo.

    However,I have no idea of how do you beat CM/SD Recover Arceus Ghost.It can set up on Genesect and shake of entry hazard damage with Recover.After it grabs a CM/SD,it can easily steamroll your team.You're best bet is a speed tie which not only is unreliable but fails to KO if opposing Arceus is at +1+1.CM SteelCeus with Will-o-wisp will give you serious problems too if Palkia is dead and groudon weakened.

    I really don't know who to replace to be honest,however I think making Latias a standard offensive set with Psyshock to deal with Ho-oh and changing Palkia to Darkrai could help.But this would mess with the team quite a bit,still I think it's worth considering. Good Luck!
  5. lousy918

    lousy918

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    325
    psycho boost > ice beam, it hits everything harder, including dragons, exceptions being latias, due to stab. also u're going down pretty soon so the -2 doesn't matter a lot.

    don't understand ghostceus spread lol
  6. Porygon2

    Porygon2

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    10
    Great team as always, but I think there's a couple of small changes that might help you cover a little more.

    The first change I would consider is using a Giratina-O over Palkia. The way you are using your Palkia alongside your Latias right now makes Palkia the more redundant of the two. The main use for Palkia right now is to form an offensive core with Genesect. However, I think you can do the same thing with Genesect and Latias. If you change Palkia to Giratina-O, you gain a check to Extremekiller Arceus, Double Dance Groudon, Blaziken and Mewtwo, all big threats to your team, especially Arceus. At the same time Giratina-O can do a lot of the same things your Palkia does right now. I would use a set like this one:

    Giratina-O
    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 168 Atk / 252 Def / 88 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Stone Edge / Earthquake
    - Will-O-Wisp



    The EVs allow you to outspeed most Ho-Oh (only max Speed and Tailwind variants should be faster) to then swiftly remove them from the field with Stone Edge. The Defense EVs in combination with Dragon Tail and Will-O-Wisp help you beat Extremekiller Arceus and also help you take an attack from Blaziken. The remainder of the EVs are put into Attack to do as much damage as possible with Dragon Tail and Shadow Sneak. Keep in mind that more Pokémon (including opposing Giratina-O) use this amount of investment into Speed. If you want to be sure to outspeed your opponents, speed creeping is advised.

    Changing Palkia to Giratina-O unfortunately makes your weakness to Arceus-Ghost bigger than it already was. If you change Arceus-Ghost to Arceus-Dark you can take on Arceus-Ghost much easier as well as having a great weapon against stall teams. Also, the presence of Arceus-Ghost as far as spinblocking goes is no longer required, seeing as you would use Giratina-O as your spinblocker. For the Arceus-Dark set I recommend using a standard Calm Mind set like this one:

    Arceus-Dark
    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Arceus (Arceus-Dark) @ Dread Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Refresh / Substitute
    - Judgment



    Using Arceus-Dark does open up a weakness to Arceus-Fighting, however, by simply changing Roar to Psyshock on Latias that weakness will be covered as well. Psyshock on Latias benefits you greatly when you're battling against Ho-Oh as well.

    I understand the changes I suggestion are a little more conservative and defensively oriented than you might like, but I do believe it greatly reduces the amount of weaknesses. You can of course decide for yourself whether you want to actually implement the suggested changes. I hope I helped!



    tl;dr
    Show Hide


    - Change Palkia to Giratina-O
    - Change Arceus-Ghost to Arceus-Dark
    - Change Roar to Psyshock on Latias



    [​IMG]
    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 168 Atk / 252 Def / 88 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Stone Edge / Earthquake
    - Will-O-Wisp



    [​IMG]
    Arceus (Arceus-Dark) @ Dread Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Refresh / Substitute
    - Judgment


  7. Edgar

    Edgar
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    @Haruno: The things that can OHKO Arceus don't resist Extreemspeed, they get OHKOd at +2 so something that can OHKO Arceus without boosting is difficult in general, Arceus Ghost with 116 Sp.Atk always 2HKOs 0 HP EVs Arceus with Focus Blast, therefor I got a check. Thanks por pointing out a minor weakness I guess.

    @IAMaHero: Hi, Terrakion would make me even weaker to Groudon and Mewtwo,as I mention above here I already got a E-Killer check.... About Forry, it would stop this team's offensive momentum, Ho-Oh would be such a bigger threat than it was before, Rapid Spin is not that important in this team since I don't give enough chances to my opponent for setting up hazards. Also, you want me to add Forry because it resists Ghost,Dark and Ice?...... thanks for trying though.

    I wonder if you 2 actually read every single bit of the team analysis or your thoughts were based around the skeleton of the team. Also asuming Arceus comes out of its Pokeball already at +2 then yeah my team is pretty weak to it but, it can only set up in front of Genesect when I'm locked into Ice Beam.

    @White Symphoni: You said that you don't have any idea how I beat Calm Mind users well, I don't let them set up, as simple as that. Thanks though.

    @lousy: Deoxys barely attacks though, Psychic isn't a good offensive type in Ubers, if you come up with Mewtwo and Psystrike, Mewtwo uses it because it destroys things that would wall it without it, like Chansey. You would understand Arceus' EV spread if you actually read the analysis. :]

    @Porygon2: Finally someone that actually took his time to read the team's analysis and not base his thoughts around the Skeleton. I really like your Arceus Dark and Giratina-O idea. I was also considering removing Latias and add LO Darkrai with Sucker Punch. I don't know if I should replace Palkia though, since Palkia helps more than Latias in this team. It's a hard descision to make. Psyshock on Latias looks interesting as well.

    Thanks a lot for the rating friend :]
  8. PROBLEMS

    PROBLEMS you're welcome
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    678
    This is soo similar to the team i used vs Fiction in SPL

    Mewtwo>Latias
    Haban>Lust Orb
    Gira-O>Ghostceus

    But considering the lack of originality there is in sun offense i think you've pretty much nailed a good version. Personally I'd say put Haban back on the Palkia as you've no real solid switch in to opposing Palkia and from 60% you live the rends if they switch it in realising you're not choiced going for the revenge kill. Also switch Stone Edge for Power Gem so that you can afford having it switch into Ho-oh without fearing the burn still kills after lefties and rocks!

    On the Ghostceus put Fire Blast>Focus in the sun Fire Blast on that thing is soo good gets alot of unexpected KO's and its more powerfull then the stab.. Also allows you to straight taker out those peasky steels who try and status it like Forry/Ferro/Skarm.. Also doing over 50% each time to Groudon is good also.

    The roar on latias I know you've explained it but if you come across a CM Fightingceus with Dark Pulse you've pertty much fucked as you're lacking the Psy stab to hit it hard, so I recommend giving it Psyshock also if they are running jolly max speed and outspeed flinch your Arceus on the recover.

    I also recommend giving the Deox a full psysical movesetf to get the most out of Espeed for the Deox-A's this way you can 2 hit with fire punch and espeed and prevent the layer of spikes. You also still hit the spinners hard that you could before.



    Great team buddy, luvdisk'd
  9. Danmire

    Danmire Finding motivation.
    is an Artist Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,220
    I feel pretty iffy about using Ghostceus as a good check to Ekiller. It's extremely risky with the critical hit chance of Shadow Claw and the terrible accuracy of Focus Blast. I use the set myself, and the latter is annoying as can be. I recommend using the support set. You don't have to use it, but it's just my two cents. It checks you any physical sweepers you mentioned you had trouble with such as Groudon with Will-O-Wisp. Also, Blaziken is pretty weak so you can use the Judgement to take it down after recoil damage from LO and Flare Blitz, and you can use it as a Hi Jump Kick misser if it tries to use that attack, or you can Roar out set up sweepers.

    [​IMG]
    Ghost-Arceus
    Item: Spooky Plate
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 Spd
    ~Judgment
    ~Flamethrower
    ~Recover
    ~Will O Wisp/Thunderwave/Roar

    Use the last move to your liking to see which one you have trouble with.

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