Solar Flare

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by DoomTrain, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. DoomTrain

    DoomTrain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    SOLAR FLARE

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    Hi everyone and welcome to my RMT! =)

    I think this is the second or third RMT I post here since my registration so please be gentle! =)

    After some months passed without playing on PO or Showdown I decided that I wanted to come back to play with one of my most successful teams I've ever built. However, this team has been built before the release of BW2 and the new bannings so I had to fix it to fit the new metagame. Now let me introduce you my team:



    At a Glance


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    Team Building Process

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    As you can understand by the title and the team layout, it is a Sun Team and it all started with Ninetales and Mixed Venusaur.


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    Mixed Venusaur is able to baitkill some of its most common switch-ins, such as Heatran. Given this, I was wondering about something that could give it a second life in the late game to finish off my opponents' team, then Healing Wish came to mind. However, the only viable users of this move are Jirachi and Celebi, together with Blissey and Chansey, but I thought that none of them could fit the team well. I then looked at Lilligant that could be nice, but I thought that having Venusaur as my Chlorophyll user was just fine.
    I then run into Cresselia and Lunar Dance, her signature move and it was love at first sight! She gives me the walling capabilities I was asking for, plus the ability to bring new life to one of her teammates.



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    At this point, I wanted another Sun abuser, possibly a Fire-Type pokemon non-weak to Stealth Rock and I noticed the lack of a Steel-Type and something that could set up my own Stealth Rock. Heatran answered the call.


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    4 gone, 2 missing.
    The lack of a Rapid Spin user annoyed me so I started to search one that could fit well in the team...
    Starmie, TTar is an issue by itself, a spinner that can be pursuit trapped is not the best thing to me.
    Tentacruel, lack of offensive presence and no reliable STAB available in the sun will make it a dead weight.
    Donphan attracted me, but I already had my Dragon Killer in Cresselia and my Stealth Rock user in Heatran, sadly, no.
    Cloyster, Forretress, Claydol, Blastoise, no no no no!
    Meanwhile, I noticed my huge weakness to Blissey/Chansey that I couldn't even touch if not with ineffective special attacks. I needed a Fighting-Type Rapid Spin user... Welcome Hitmontop!



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    Well, now I needed a Physical Sweeper/Revenge Killer with a good set of resistances, what's better than a Dragon-Type? Even better, the original Dragon-Type: Dragonite.


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    In Depth


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    Konkon (Ninetales) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 104 SDef / 36 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Toxic
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Protect

    A fairly standard set. EVs and a Calm Nature are given in order to survive some weaker physical attacks, such as Earthquake from Focus Sash Dugtrio, to give her the ability to switch into weaker Water-Type moves, such as Scalds from Politoed/Jellicent/Tentacruel, and to tank most Grass-, Ice-, Fire- and Bug-type attacks. 36 EVs in Spd bring the stat on the edge of 245. Flamethrower acts as a reliable STAB with decent power in sun. Toxic cripples bulky pokemons as Jellicent and Latias and the omnipresent Politoed. WoW is for physical attackers and Tyranitar, lastly, Protect helps with prediction. I chose a dual status set due to its versatility.
    Ninetales' nickname "Konkon" derives from the japanese onomatopoeia kon that's the sound the fox makes.



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    Miàowāhuā (Venusaur) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 76 Atk / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Growth
    - Earthquake

    The very start of everything. I wanted something that you don't see everyday and that could lure in Heatran, Sun teams' nightmare, and kill it without effort. 252 Evs in SAtk are mandatory as the set is highly specially based, 180 Spd Evs allow Venusaur to outspeed 110 based + Scarf in the sun and I thought that further EVs would have been a waste. 76 Atk Evs to give a little more "Oomph" to Earthquake and 2HKO Heatran everytime. Giga Drain is the STAB move of choice that can deal reliable damage and heal Venusaur at the same time. Hidden Power [Fire] acts as a pseudo-STAB move in the sun to hit really hard those pesky Steel-types that try to stop Venusaur's sweep. Eartquake is mainly for Heatran, Growth is my set up move of choice. As for now I'm really satisfied with Venusaur's job, however I'm thinking about replacing HP [Fire] with HP [Ice] to hit those Dragon-types that otherwise wall this set, let me know what's best in your opinion.
    Venusaur's nickname Miàowāhuā is the Chinese Mandarin name for Venusaur and it means literally "Wonderful frog flower".



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    Helios (Heatran) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    - Protect
    - Stealth Rock

    Now Heatran, the only Dragon-type resistor. Initially I opted for a more offensive set with Air Ballon but I then had issues with the Latwins so I changed the old set with this one and never looked back. Specially Defensive Heatran is a fairly standard set that can wall many threats to my team, Latwins as I sad, Volcarona and mainly every special sweeper in the metagame. It can even tank Water-type moves in the sun and this is awsome. Lava Plume is the STAB of choice due to its 30% burn rate and has great power in the sun, Roar is to phaze set up sweepers or to stack up some hazard damage, Protect helps me scouting for Choice Items and racks up some Leftovers recovery. Stealth Rock is simply the best move in the game.
    Heatran's nickname Helios derives from the name of the Greek Sun God.



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    Selene (Cresselia) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Moonlight
    - Lunar Dance

    Now there's my creation. Cresselia was designed for absorbing those powerful Fighting- and Ground-type moves that flow in the OU environment and it's a solid check to nearly any physical sweeper in the metagame. Not only, when her walling job is finished she can sacrifice herself to give new life back to one of her teammates, namely Venusaur or Dragonite.
    32 SAtk Evs allow Cresselia to hit Steel-types quite hard with Hidden Power [Fire] and to OHKO 248 HP / 0 SDef Scizor in the sun after Stealth Rock damage 100% of the time. The remaining Evs are invested in HP and Def for the greatest possible physical bulk, her tanking abilities let her sponge even outraging +1/Chioce Banded dragons such as Dragonite and Haxorus.
    Ice Beam can 2HKO Gliscor, Landorus and Dragon-types in general, Moonlight is for reliable recovery in the sun and Lunar Dance is the crux of the set, fully restoring one of my pokemons. Despite Ice Beam and HP [Fire] having pitful coverage, Cresselia never let me down and does her job excellently.
    Cresselia's nickname Selene derives from the name of the Greek Moon Goddess, sister of the Greek Sun God.



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    Capoeira (Hitmontop) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Close Combat
    - Foresight
    - Stone Edge

    Now, the much-needed Rapid Spin user and Rock-type resistor for my sun team.
    That's a pretty standard set for Hitmontop that, thanks to Intimidate and Def Evs investment, is a great check to many powerful physical threats.
    Thanks to Foresight Hitmontop doesn't fear Ghost-types switch-ins and can Rapid Spin like there's no tomorrow and Venusaur's ability to absorb Toxic Spikes softens up Hitmontop's spinning role.
    Again, Rapid Spin and Foresight are pretty self-explanatory, Close Combat is a reliable STAB that can 2HKO Blissey and deal decent damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Stone Edge is mainly for Dragon-types, Gyarados and for the rare Volcarona.
    Hitmontop's nickname Capoeira derives from the famous brazilian dance/fight that this pokemon seems to use in combat.



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    Dragonite (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake
    - ExtremeSpeed

    Last but not least, Dragonite.
    Once again a fairly standard but effective set. I chose the Choice Band set because I wanted some immediate damage and didn't want to give up one between Earthquake and ExtremeSpeed. Multiscale is the crux of the set, letting Dragonite survive against almost every move it takes. Evs are given in order to have the maximum power and speed as possible to rip holes in weakened teams.
    Outrage is the STAB move of choice of course, severly denting everything that doesn't resist it, Fire Punch gets a pseudo-STAB boost in the sun and takes care of those omnipresent Steel-types, Earthquake mainly for Heatran and rounds up the coverage, ExtremeSpeed is for revenge killing purposes.
    Dragonite's nickname Lóng is the Chinese word for Dragon.



    Importable

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    Please keep the nicknames

    Konkon (Ninetales) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 104 SDef / 36 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Toxic
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Protect

    Miàowāhuā (Venusaur) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 76 Atk / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Earthquake

    Selene (Cresselia) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Moonlight
    - Lunar Dance

    Helios (Heatran) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock

    Capoeira (Hitmontop) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Close Combat
    - Foresight
    - Stone Edge

    Lóng (Dragonite) (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake
    - ExtremeSpeed



    Threatlist

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    [​IMG]: without Dragonite or Hitmotop is a big threat. However, since Giga Drain has been released on Chlorophyll Venusaur ad thanks to Growth, non-Thunder Wave variants are more manageable.

    [​IMG]: none of my moves can OHKO this guy, except Growth-boosted moves from Venusaur. However it is manageable with the combination of Hitmontop and Cresselia, now that Ice Punch is much more seen than Payback.

    [​IMG]: ouch. SD variants can rip holes, Cresselia can resist a +2 Outrage at full health but she's not able to kill it with Ice Beam, I need to sacrifice her and then revenge kill with Venusaur or Dragonite.

    [​IMG]: the biggest threat to the team. SubDD variants with Bounce will tear this team apart.

    [​IMG]: same as Garchomp, but luckily it does not have set up moves. However Choice Band sets can punch holes.

    [​IMG]: TR variants are pretty easy to handle but CM sets are a real pain. The only ways to deal with it are to send in Heatran and Roar it hoping for the Focus Blast miss or put pressure with Dragonite and Venusaur.​





    Please leave a [​IMG] if you like the team or gonna use it =)



  2. bobbyvaporeon

    bobbyvaporeon

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    670
    I think that Rotom-H is a good fit for your team. With a thunderbolt to kill gyarados, Trick to cripple Blissey, and a Sun-Boosted Overheat, the oven is a good fit. The problem is where to put it. Maybe in Heatran's Place?
    I might also suggest Victreebell in Venasaur's Spot simply because it has Weather ball, and Hitmontop takes care of opposing Heatran anyways.
  3. DoomTrain

    DoomTrain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Thanks for your suggestions.
    However, I don't think that I'm going to replace Heatran, simply because it is my only way to deal with powerful special attackers and my only Steel-type.
    Victreebel seems appealing but even with Max Spd, 110 Base + Scarf can outspeed it and I really need the extra speed and Earthquake that Venusaur provides as Hitmontop can't take care of Heatran by itself since it gets OHKOed by a sun boosted Fire Blast.
  4. Ninetale3

    Ninetale3

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2011
    Messages:
    154
    Have you considered sun utility lilligant in place of venusaur. Venusaur doesn't seem really needed on this team and lilligant can get a healing wish off much better than cresselia can get the lunar dance off. With lilligant you can get a sweeper in that can continue outside of the respective weather most likely victini or bulky volcarona as either will serve well.
  5. Halcyon.

    Halcyon.
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,204
    Cool team DoomTrain, seems like you really put a lot of thought into it!

    yeah, I don't mean to sound rude, but I just straight up disagree with Bobbyvaporeon. Rotom-H is great and all, but Heatran is definitely necessary if you want to deal with opposing dragons. However, I notice that your team is pretty dependent on the sun being up (Venusaur and Cresselia really need sun to perform well), so I would suggest switching your Heatran set to a Sunny Day Trapper set. This will help you win the weather war, and also quickly wears down common switch-ins to Heatran (Lati@s, Garchomp, Rotom-W, Jellicent [bulky waters in general], and others hate taking a sun boosted Magma Storm), making it easier for the rest of your team to sweep. This Heatran can also reliably deal with Politoed by trapping it with Magma Storm on the switch and then proceeding to Sunny Day and KO with Solar Beam.

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    Heatran (F) @ Air Balloon / Chople Berry
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - SolarBeam
    - Sunny Day
    - Magma Storm
    - Earth Power

    Obviously this Heatran isn't a defensive set, so sponging outrages and the like will be harder than normal, but I think this set supports your team better as a whole, because you shouldn't have too much trouble dealing with Dragons if the sun is up. Like I said before, this can trap and kill all sorts of threats like Lati@s (in the sun, Surf does about 30%, whereas your Magma Storm is a 2HKO after Magma Storm's residual damage), but most importantly, kills Politoed and Tyranitar, allowing you to maintain your sun. Chople Berry helps in killing Tyranitar, who can do serious damage with Choice Banded Superpower. However, this set makes you lose out on Stealth Rock, which is why I advise Stealth Rock Garchomp over your current Dragonite.

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    Garchomp @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP (SAtk if using Fire Blast)
    Naive Nature (Jolly if using Swords Dance)
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance / Fire Blast
    - Stealth Rock

    This set gives you almost guaranteed Stealth Rock, as well as an excellent check to Tyranitar, as well as a strong lead if Ninetales isn't the best choice. Your choice between Fire Blast and Swords Dance really depends on what your team needs most. If you want to have something that can set up, then Swords Dance is your best bet. Fire Blast gives him a way to deal with stronger physical steel types like Bronzong and Skarmory, although your team doesn't really struggle to beat either of those, so I would advise Swords Dance. Either way, Garchomp gives you a way to deal with non-Choice Scarfed Kyurem-B, which you said can be a pain for your team to deal with.

    Also, I would recommend using HP Ice on Venusaur instead of HP Fire, just because you already have plenty of fire moves on the team and HP Ice gives you a more reliable way of dealing with Garchomp/Dragonite/Salamence, who otherwise give you a bit of trouble.

    I hope I was able to help you. I really like the team, good luck!
  6. DoomTrain

    DoomTrain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Hi Halcyon of Light, thanks for your rate!

    I tested the sets you recommended to me and I found that Garchomp doesn't fit well in my team as I desperately need a form of priority to deal with certain threats like Alakazam who otherwise would give some troubles, I really missed Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed and raw power.
    On the other hand, I haven't tested Heatran's trapping effectiveness very much due to Magma Storm's shaky accuracy, giving me 2 misses out of 3. I don't think I want to play with a "coin toss" move, however I'll keep testing this set 'cause Sunny Day has been really helpful so far.
  7. Alexander.

    Alexander.
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,583
    Hey DoomTrain!

    Just some considerations about your team. First of all, I always found Toxic quite useless on Ninetales because you can hit anyway Politoed with Will-O-Wisp, which doesn't appreciates a burn, and because you haven't problem against both Latias and Jellicent since you have a solid switch into Latias called Heatran and since you can setup on Jellicent very easily with your Venusaur, in general your team doesn't fear any bulky Pokemon in my humble opinion. Therefore, you should try Sunny Day instead of Toxic on your Ninetales, which would allow you to make pointless the switch in of Politoed, Tyranitar and Hippowdon and as you know, it's always useful. You should also try Superpower instead of Earthquake on your Dragonite, which is usually a better move than Earthquake on Choice Band Dragonite since it allows to hit Ferrothorn under rain and Heatran too, you would only lose a stronger move against Jirachi but you have Heatran which is its best counter in the game so you shouldn't worry about it. After that, I think that you should try Thunder Wave on your Cresselia, probably replacing Hidden Power Fire which doesn't seem really useful for your team since Scizor isn't a threat for it anyway so Hidden Power Fire on Cresselia replaced; Thunder Wave would help you against both Kyurem-B and Gyarados, which are big theats for your team, as you already said and against fast setupper too, such as Terrakion, Volcarona, Keldeo and so on, so you should sometimes try it and see how it works on your team. Finally, for a small nitpick, you should also always use only 248 EVs on HP on Heatran to take less damages from Stealth Rock and Spikes, which can be somewhat useful if you can't spin for some reason, you may use the remainder EVs on Speed just to have a speed tie with the other Special Defensive Heatran.

    Good luck and Luvdisc'd =)
  8. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Angel of mercy, how did you find me?
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,617
    Hey, I got your request!

    One of the main problems I see with your team is your lack of offensive power and capability that Sun teams need to maintain momentum against Sand and Rain. Sure, you have walls, but Heatran is the only one that can really stop opponents from setting up, and that is because it can phaze- not because it can hit hard. For this reason, nearly any setup sweeper that can defeat Heatran can deal massive amounts of damage to your team. This is why you are so weak to Gyarados, Garchomp, and many fighting types too. Once they set up, they can use their boosted moves to plow through Ninetales and Hitmontop, as well as take advantage of the fact that Heatran and Cresselia lack power / coverage to stop them. For instance, you really have no way of defeating SD Garchomp if Rocks are up, because it can set up easily and sweep pretty much unresisted. I think this problem definitely stems from a. Cresselia's lack of power and b. your lack of powerful setup sweepers.

    Cresselia is shouldering a lot of the team's defensive pressure. It's your answer to most setup sweepers, but it needs to be able to not only take hits from sweepers but also dish out damage / crippling in return, as without it pokemon like Gyarados can easily just set up on you again and hit with more power to finally break your defenses. For this reason, I encourage you to try a moveset of Psychic / Thunder Wave / Ice Beam / Moonlight instead of your current moveset, along with a spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA Bold. This change does a few things that enable Cress to fully stop all setup sweepers from being able to puncture your defensive back bone. First of all, it removes HP Fire, which is pretty useless as it counters a pokemon that your team only laughs at, ad replaces it with Psychic, a move that would be a lot more useful. Psychic not only hits Fighting types like Conkeldurr for 2HKOs, but it also hits a lot stronger in general, because it receives STAB boost. With the removal of HP Fire, you no longer require a SpA boost to KO Scizor, so maximum investment in bulk can be used. Lunar Dance is a pretty subpar move imo, because I don't see your team needing it very often. Venasaur is a self standing sweeper; it can do well on its own as long as it gets Sun, which Ninetales provides. It can heal itself with Giga Drain too, and is immune to Toxic status- so, it is of my opinion that Lunar Dance would not be as useful. Dragonite too has great bulk, and should only be used for cleaning / revenging with ESpeed, so it too probably doesn't need Linar Dance. Instead, I think you should give Cresselia Thunder Wave instead. This lets her cripple setup sweepers and allow Dragonite or Venasaur to pick them off later, and pretty much eliminates Gyarados or Kyu-B as threats if played at the right time. You can also try Reflect over Lunar Dance, as it boosts its defense to skyhigh levels- also giving its teammates a needed Defense boost. Both can be used, deoending on how you want to handle opposing sweepers. The point here is to give Cresselia more tools so she can cripple offensive setup sweepers or dampen their attacks.

    Now, speaking of Dragonite, I think its set should also be changed. I think using Dragon Dance Dragonite would benefit you more as it has the ability to set up and clean late game, after Venasaur has used its speed and fast attacks to eliminate faster frail sweepers. Dragon Dance Dnite also does better against Rain in general, which this team might not like facing.

    Dragonite @ Lum Berry
    Adamant / 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Dragon Dance / Outrage / Fire Punch / Extreme Speed


    What this Dragonite can do is set up on choiced locked pokemon and perform quick, damaging sweeps that either win the match for you or open up holes for Venasaur to clean. It has the bulk to do so easily too, and can be used as an offensive 'check' to opposing sweepers if you set up enough. It also has tremendous power and speed after a boost, KOing all dragon types with Outrage and denting massive holes in other non resistors as well. The reason why I don't think a Band is a good idea is because it leaves you susceptible to setup- which again I've stressed is a bad thing for Sun teams and for this team. Other than Dragon Dance and Outrage, the remaining moves are coverage. Fire Punch hits SpDef Skarmory, which can be a pain to deal with as it can tank a hit from Venasaur and KO with Brave Bird. Also, with the Sun boost, it hits harder than EQ too. ExtremeSpeed is extremely valuable prioirty that can be used not only to revenge but also to escape frail scarfers. In conclusion, Dragon Dance Dragonite will give you a powerful, fast sweeper that can obliterate special walls and KO opposing sweepers, aiding with the success of the team.

    Other than that, there is one more minor tweak. I agree with Alexander that Toxic is probably not the best move on Ninetales- I think you should try Sunny Day too, to help beat TTar / Toed.

    Good luck!

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