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Solar Vengeance (#1 on all major ladders)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Gamester, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. Conflict

    Conflict And who are you, the proud lord said That I must bow so low?
    is a Pre-Contributoris a SPL Winner

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    Ive always wanted to try Reversal+Memento Dugtrio but sadly its an illegal move combination (both eggmoves). Prolly should use SE/RS instead so you can at least trap opposing Volcaronas and hopefully kill em. (I assume PS doesnt have a feature implemtend that shows you illegal moves.)

    http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/dugtrio
  2. Gamester

    Gamester

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    @Kirikizan - the team is fast-paced and there is no time for things like that if forre dies you'll be trapping whatever did it and setting up rona soon after.

    @Nate Dog - I usually use Ninetales to take the Trick

    Thanks to Naixin and Gr8astard for helping answer questions

    @ZoroDark - the current version of the team doesn't want it but I'm testing a Growth Venusaur with Scarf Tini now which is doing quite brilliantly

    @Shrang - I make it a priority to get rocks then phaze with tales until I set up my own Volcarona first but now that I'm testing Victini I can just flat out kill it. Thanks a ton for the rate and wobtrio is ridiculous :]

    @MikeDecIsHere - I went mixed to ease the burden of Dugtrio who may not be able to kill both a Tyranitar and a Heatran in the same game. Once again now that I'm testing Growth Venu and victini sludge bomb is much more usable than without boosting at all. Thanks for the rate!

    @alexwolf - Shed Shell Tyranitar is easily the teams biggest weakness lol. Thankfully it's incredibly rare.

    @Stone_Cold - I mean you're sc22 did you expect anybody to beat you?

    @Conflict - It's legal on PO as well actually and PS does have illegal move combos implemented.
  3. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    Reversal + Memento isn't an illegal combination since Smeargle can breed with Dugtrio. However, Memento + Stealth Rock IS illegal if this is a BW1 team, since Memento is a 5th-Gen Egg Move only. It's a legal combination in BW2 though so if you used this team in the current meta then it should be fine.
  4. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    It's a B2W2 team, Ninetails also has pain split, which is illegal with drought in BW
  5. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    Hey gamester,
    nice team, since you're thinking of changing Venusaur into a special sweeper you may want to test out Victreebel over Venusaur, this may seem like a really weird suggestion but other than a few differences such as less bulk but better coverage they are very similiar pokemon. Victreebel has access to Weather Ball; a base 50 power normal type move which is absolutely terrible, but when used under weather it's power doubles and changes to the type the weather is associated with (It becomes Fire type under the sun) now that it's Fire type, the sun boosts it's power by 50% giving Weather Ball a whopping 150 power. Due to Weather Ball Victreebel dosen't need to run HP Fire, it can now use HP Ice absolutely destroying dragons, gliscor and landorus, HP Ice also means you can use Victreebel as a revenge killer if a dragon tries to sweep you. The combination of Fire, Ice and Grass hits every type for at least neutral except Fire types which are easily trapped by dugtrio anyway. Victreebel has less bulk than Venusaur but dont let that discourage you from using it, Victreebel is going to be faster than anything your opponent will have and after a growth (which is very easy to set up with wobbufet and dugtrio with memento) it can OHKO almost every pokemon in OU. Pritority users can be a pain, but Scizor is trapped by wobbufet when it's locked into Bullet Punch and they might not want to risk switching Scizor in on a Victreebel because you can nail it with a weather ball on the switch, Mamoswine is the only other priority user that can be a problem but the rest of your team can take him down pretty easily, and again your opponent wont want to switch it in on Victreebel.

    Sorry for the incredibly long rant about Victreebel, lol. Anyway I hope my rate helped and GL with the team.

    Victreebel set:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Victreebel @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Growth
    - Weather Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
  6. shofly12

    shofly12

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    Hi gamester!

    I would agree with The Great Mighty Doom above on the Special Sweeper thing. I've tried using a Venusaur myself, and for me, I found that Venusaur just lacked the coverage with Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb/HP Fire. It hit hard, but the coverage afforded by Victreebel's Grass/Fire/Ice hits Dragons and the new Therians hard. (understandably, a SE HP Ice has only 5 more BP than a neutral Sludge Bomb, but against Dragonite/Salamence, the power increase is notable). I haven't actually tested Victreebel myself, but at least in theory, it seems pretty nice. The lower speed does mean that you'll need to be more careful about things that have already set up a speed boost though.

    Just my 2 cents.

    hope I helped!
  7. Gamester

    Gamester

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    @The Great Mighty Doom - Thanks for the suggestion and I ended up sticking with my mixed life orb attacker set because the support was too useful for victini. But I agree Victreebel in general is far superior to venusaur as a purely special sweeper.

    @Shofly12 - Maybe if I turned out I did need a dedicated special sweeper I would but after adding Victini it seemed fine. Thanks for the rate tho!

    Just in general I'd like people to go back over the team and it's new changes because I think it's a bit more solid now with an easier win condition imo. Rather than +2 volcarona in sun the win condition is win the weather war which is not too difficult based on how the team works!
  8. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

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    Nice team you have there Gamester.
    Yes, im LilOu. You must recognize me.

    So, as you told me in the morning, Victini is fitting very well through your team because it can revenge kill Tornadus-T (the major threat in the metagame right now), otherwise, if your opponent takes down Wobbufet, he sweeps your team (i mean Tornadus-T) because he can easily kill ninetails with superpower (i run a mixed attacker) and just spam hurricane. But with the V-head rat that is really cute, you can OHKO easily...
    But what happens if you are in the rain? Tornadus-T can take a V-create in the rain and then OHKO victini (i was going to paste calcs, but my damage calculator doesn't have date about the new formes), try to use fusion bolt in victini so he can ALSO revenge kill Tornadus-T in the rain and any other weather.

    Hope I helped you. See ya :)
  9. Gamester

    Gamester

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    Hey LilOuOn! Yes I remember lol.

    Superpower doesn't do that much to tales but yes if it hits tales with a hurricane things can get problematic. The other thing is I now run sunny day because nado will usually try to u-turn into politoed when I'll then reset the sun keeping them under heavy pressure and whenever victini comes in they're forced to play a guessing game where they lose a pokemon or lose the game. I might try fusion bolt again but I almost never used it.

    Thanks for the rate! :]
  10. ScarlequinTheImmortalGod

    ScarlequinTheImmortalGod

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    First of all huge props on the team Gamester, Euthanasia was a masterpiece and this likewise. The synergy is incredible and Tickle Wobbuffet with Dugtrio is massively underrated to win the weather war and take out specific threats.

    The Immortal Almighty God Scarlequin however does have one suggestion, take it with a pinch of salt if you dislike it, when I was laddering with the team I found myself sweeping with Volcarona the vast majority of games rather than Venusaur.
    After thinking about synergy I believe WEAVILE and your original Volcarona would work well over Victini and Venusaur.
    Weavile allows you to pursuit trap threats that have been Tickled by Wobuffet, either if they are Aerial or Dugtrio is dead. Low Kick would allow you to one shot Tyranitar again aiding in the weather war, also one shotting Mamowsine, Terrakion and without doing calcs gives you a method to severely damage Balloon Heatran. Ice Shard would revenge outrage locked Dragons or dragons that have got out of control, which is particularly relevant for Specially Defensive Dragonite which walls Volcaronas Bug/Fire Coverage. Ice Shard is also amazing for the Therian formes which can be problematic if you somehow lose the weather war. Final moveslot goes to Ice Punch to destroy Dragons without boosts and Gliscor/Non Scarfed Therians, as well as being your most powerful attack.
    The Bullet Punches and Mach Punches that give Weavile issues are walled by Forretress and Volcarona
    Set:

    Weavile @ Life Orb/Choice Band
    Ice Shard
    Pursuit
    Low Kick
    Ice Punch

    32 HP/252 Atk/224 Spd Jolly Nature

    If you did test with this I would change HP Ice on Dugtrio back to Memento because I think HP Ice is too gimmicky.
    Night Slash/Punishment are options over Ice Punch for CM Reuniclus and Jellicent

    Ive realised this leaves you without a water resist if you lose the weather war which is a problem but thats what Sunny Day is for on Tales right

    Amazing team dude, and let me know what you thought of the suggestion
    Peace out
    The Eternal Immortal God Scarlequin :heart:x
  11. Gamester

    Gamester

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    Thanks for the suggestion and I like Weavile alot but just not on this team. Thanks for the rate tho! But the frailty of Weavile is massively unappealing.
  12. ScarlequinTheImmortalGod

    ScarlequinTheImmortalGod

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    Trust me man I really dislike frail Pokemon too, but obviously the concept with Pokes like Weavile is they should never take a hit, you should be switching out on the predicted Bullet/Mach Punches.
    And your point about frail Pokemon is moribund when youre running Dugtrio, but I understand your view and Ive had high success on the ladder both with your current version and one with Weavile.
    Completely respect your point of view Gamester, youre a master of the RMT, so Luvdisced and keep up the amazing work
    Props from the Immortal God Scarlequin
  13. King John

    King John

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    I usually would say boot Victini since I hate the damned thing, but this team is awesome.
  14. salamence1

    salamence1

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    Ha, I played against this team, and it knocked me out of the top 20. I lost because of the Forretress xD it really does work! It suprised me big time.
  15. CZ.

    CZ.

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    Hippo destroys the whole team, forry won't do much with hp ice and wobb falls to 3 EQ's with sand up. Nothing can switch into a non-choiced EQ either. I haven't played in a while so I don't really know how BW2 is yet. But EQ is always a common move.

    Maybe try and throw Guss or Celebi in there somewhere.
  16. AznSeal

    AznSeal

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    Hippo gets shut down by Wobbufett.

    If hippo does EQ, it gets killed with counter. If hippo uses SR, it gets tickle'd to -6 defense and duggy finishes it off. Forretress also laughs in the face of Hippowdon because it can spin all day. If hippowdon gets locked in roar, something that will threaten it will eventually come in.

    Thanks for the rate!
  17. Gamester

    Gamester

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    @ScarlequinTheImmortalGod - Well thank you for respecting my opinion as I respect yours. I'm glad to hear you've done well with the team :]

    @King John - Well thank you sir, Victini is my favorite 5th gen pokemon

    @salamence1 - haha well I'm glad to know it works and I'm sorry you got knocked out of top 20!

    Thanks to everyone who has rated, luv'd, tested, hated this team so far! And thanks again Naixin for helping respond to some of these rates.

    Also this is just an RMT so please lets be civil :/
  18. Dragonfruit

    Dragonfruit

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    Alright, I apologize Gamester. I didn't know how important RMTs were to you as opposed to actual battling. I acted arrogant and childish. The truth is, I was actually somewhat jealous of the achievements you got with this team. I really like the Wobbuffett and Dugtrio core. My greatest apologies.

    However, I do think that a fully special set on Venusaur would benefit you more, as other people had said. If you can trap Heatran with Dugtrio, Venusaur will sweep no problem. I know you're testing it already, I just felt like I could give it a bit more of a push. Anyway, I hate to say it, but I do look forward to reading more of your teams..
  19. Gamester

    Gamester

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    Uhh that's ok dragonfruit.... don't worry about it.....

    Thanks for the suggestion I just feel like it's too big of a risk to really solely one one pokemon to check something which can threaten all 6 to a degree. And I'm glad to hear it. I look forward to seeing you use more Snorunt....
  20. Finchinator

    Finchinator

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    Damn man, I can't find anything wrong with this team..luvdisc
  21. AznSeal

    AznSeal

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    We tried pure special venusaur but if dugtrio dies, or in the rare occasion we switch duggy into a scarf heatran, we lose.
  22. Episode36

    Episode36

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    Yeah, there are quite a few threats that really just take this whole team apart, as previous people have pointed out. Otherwise a pretty decent sun team, though, even if sun/ninetales isn't the greatest. Wobb/Dug is always lol-worthy, but they are easily countered by any decent battler who knows how they work.

    Victini is pretty good on sun teams, but once the opponent realizes it's scarfed, it will be easily countered by Pokemon such as Heatran and faster revenge killers. Venusaur is always a staple on sun teams, so good job there at least. Ninetales set looks fine. I don't like the Forretress set, but I understand why it's being used. With Wobb/Dug, I'd prefer more entry hazards to even the playing field, since you're basically fighting opposing teams 4 on 6 because Wobb and Dug are so unreliable. While Forretress does well in sun because it basically can't take a fire attack anyways, I'd probably rather see something like Starmie in its place. However, then you'd need a steel type, which would mean blowing up your whole team, because I'd probably suggest AB Heatran or some such.

    In any case, good effort and I like Wobb/Dug myself, even if they aren't always that great against good battlers. Props for trying to make Victini viable too.
  23. AznSeal

    AznSeal

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    Hello

    I would have to respectfully disagree on how wobb/trio is easily countered. Yes, the combo isn't unbeatable, but between U-Turn on Victini and Volt Switch on forretress, it's really easy to lure and then switch into a trapper. For some pokemon, such as Heatran/Ninetales/any firetype for dugtrio, or choiced pokemon for wobb, a switch in=death. Beyond U-turn/Volt Switch, wobb/trio is also really good when double switches are involved.

    This leads to my second point. We tried spikes over Gyro Ball and spikes over HP ice, but in the end, we thought an offensive forretress was our best bet. Without Gyro Ball, threats such as scarf terrakion or DD haxorous will tear this team apart. Also, HP Ice is a hard counter for Gliscor/Landorus/Landorus-T and a soft counter for Dragonite. Also, because of the trapping that wobb/trio creates, this team actually forces less switches than expected, so the investment in spikes is not needed.

    And we tried other spinners such as Claydol, Donphan, and Starmie. We came to the conclusion that Forretress is simply too good.

    Thanks for the rate!
  24. Gamester

    Gamester

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    @Finchanator - thanks bro :] Wobbtrio is 2 stronf

    @Episode36 - Wobbtrio pulls 2 kills on average per game and it usually takes out very crucial mons for the opposing team so it's not like a 4v6 at all lol.

    @Aznseal - thanks once again for helping to respond lol
  25. Maaowr

    Maaowr

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    A really nice team ! But could it be possible to have a threat list ? Would be awesome !

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