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Solis Delictum

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Sylth, Mar 5, 2012.

  1. Sylth

    Sylth

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Hello! This will be my very first Rate My Team and a way of introducing myself to Smogon. Please bare with me if I don't seem very good at this... I'm also terrible at titles, but it is necessary.

    I started building this team after playing many an ubers battle against countless rain stall teams and hyper offensive teams. The objective of this team was to break away from the common teams and build something a little more unorthodox. I had also always had an interest in Ho-oh though never using it myself, so I built this team around it, well kind of.

    Team at a Glance

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The Team

    [​IMG]

    Terra (Groudon) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rocks


    As the only viable option for sun in ubers he is an obligatory member of the team. Without his sun Ho-oh doesn't get that lovely little sacred fire boost and keeps its water weakness, so Groudon is very important to the team. Though despite Ho-oh relying on the sun, I'm never one to sacrifice my others in a weather war to keep Groudon alive since 5/6 of my team can work well without the sun. It's just a nice little bonus I take when I can get. The set itself gives me a physical wall and a way to stop Baton Pass teams and Substitute pokemon while still being able to hit hard with the edgequake combination.

    -Changed the set from paradancer to a rock polish + swords dance set. This was then changed to defensive stealth rocks.-

    [​IMG]

    Luceat (Ho-Oh) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 208 HP / 240 Atk / 60 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Brave Bird
    - Sacred Fire
    - Substitute
    - Recover

    Ah Ho-oh. The sole reason for this teams existence.
    The set itself is pretty standard: substitute to avoid dragon tail phazing and status conditions and brave bird and sacred fire to put heavy damage on a vast majority of ubers. The 50% burn rate on sacred fire and the immense damage it brings makes it very dangerous to switch into if the sun's up to stay and you're not called Giratina or Palkia. Of course there is the ever prominent threat of stealth rocks which makes me really want a spinner on the team, but it seems like that would just be a liability. It just takes some skillful predictions with Xatu to keep them off my side of the field, even if the opponent does get stealth rocks up I can still win the game without major problems. There's only a few times that I've had stealth rocks be a major problem to my team, so that makes a spinner seem even more useless. The EVs give me 101hp substitutes to allow me to set up on the fat pink blobs and allow me 2 Stealth Rock switch-ins should the opponent manage to get them up.

    [​IMG]

    Umbra (Arceus-Ghost) @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Judgment
    - Perish Song
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp

    My extreme-killer, Giratina and Mewtwo check. Though extreme-killer can be handled other ways. When I made the team I realized that if I was going to have a magic bouncer on my team, I might as well have a spin blocker. I thought about Giratina first, but then realized that something which could abuse the sun too was a better choice, so here it is. Will-O-Wisp everything that's physical on the predicted switch (or just do it as they try to set up), judgement everything that's ghost or psychic and perish song to stop last mon sweepers and Baton Pass teams in their tracks. This makes Arceus more of a utility pokemon, but why not? It does have the bulk to pull it off and the typing leaves it with only two weaknesses.

    [​IMG]

    Ferrum (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Atk / 208 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Thunder Wave

    My main Kyogre check and Palkia if rain's up. This thing tanks the water spouts and cripples the scarfed variants with t-wave, or hits the specs ones with a power whip if they're foolish enough to stay in to let me do that. Though more times than not I'll just t-wave to give Groudon or Ho-oh a field day in later turns. Leech seed all the pink blobs and Giratinas for some nice recovery and find a way to get some stealth rocks up at some point. Not much need for a Ferrothorn analysis here, everyone's used one or at least come against one many a time.

    [​IMG]

    Iocus (Xatu) (F) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Roost
    - U-turn

    The joker of the team and possibly my favourite member. This crazy thing trolls all over stall teams and just sets up screens in their face as they attempt to switch to something to hit it with only to find their 'counter' will now do half damage thanks to some nice predictions with the screens. Roost for reliable recovery and HP Fire to take out Ferrothorns and Forretress. Xatu over Espeon for the reliable recovery due to my main use for Xatu being to annoy stall teams, which are often rain varieties.

    [​IMG]

    Astrum (Palkia) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Spacial Rend
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast


    Originally Terrakion was placed here, but that left me with a gaping Specsogre weakness as was noted by just about anyone that saw the team. Furai suggested this Palkia instead of Terrakion and it's worked perfectly. It's power and speed patch up a minor weakness in Darkrai by OHKO'ing it with Draco Meteor and also covers my Kyogre weakness as long as I don't play obvious and switch it into a Thunder or Ice Beam. With the Choice Scarf equipped Palkia can revenge any unboosted dragons and life orb Mewtwo with a Draco Meteor. This pokemon fits perfectly where Terrakion was doing a mediocre job.


    As I said this is my first RMT and I'm very open to any changes within the team. I mentioned above that stealth rocks rarely give me problems if they get up, so I'll link to a match where they did against someone using a team he claimed Donkey gave him, which I can believe since the team was a challenge to beat. Other than that thanks very much for reading this and I look forward to your rates!

    The match I mentioned earlier if you want to watch it. Under one of my alts 'Glore'. I was using double dance Groudon in this one, then changed back right after this to paradancer:
    Show Hide


    Export to text:
    Show Hide

    Terra (Groudon) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock

    Ferrum (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Atk / 208 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Thunder Wave

    Umbra (Arceus-Ghost) @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Judgment
    - Perish Song
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Iocus (Xatu) (F) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Roost
    - U-turn

    Luceat (Ho-Oh) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 208 HP / 240 Atk / 60 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Brave Bird
    - Sacred Fire
    - Substitute
    - Recover

    Astrum (Palkia) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Spacial Rend
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast



    Any changes to the team will be done in bold.
  2. Sylth

    Sylth

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
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    Threat List:


    Life orb Mewtwo - Now covered with the combination of Arceus and Palkia.

    Specs/Scarf Kyogre - Still a minor threat, but can be played around as long as I don't switch Palkia into an Ice Beam or Thunder.

    I will continue adding to this as I play more games, these two are the only two that come to mind straight away.
  3. DeathMetal

    DeathMetal

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Why put flamethrower on arceus? Sure it can roast steels like ferrothorn and forry, but you have xatu to rape them anyway. I suggest putting another move over flamethrower like roar or persish song.
    I really like the team, thumbs up for using xatu.

    I watched that battle log (http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Glo...--2012-02-18-1), I can't understand why your opponent insisted on using rapid spin with his/her tentacruel vs your ferrothorn when your xatu had been fainted. If he'd got toxic spikes down you would have been in trouble. Also the double dancing groudon gaining its boosts seemed to me to be the defining point in the match, if you'd run your current set instead I think it would have impacted on the result.
  4. Sylth

    Sylth

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    After that suggestion I have changed back to double dance Groudon and I'm liking it more than paradancer. It's very easy to set up behind screens and sweep unprepared teams!
  5. Crazydude323

    Crazydude323

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    I would switch out psychic for hidden power on Xatu for an easy STAB.
  6. Adam Lambert

    Adam Lambert

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    570
    At first glance, I can tell this team is oozing with originality. I love the fact you're using Xatu, a very underused and underrated mon in the Ubers tier; I also love that you're using Terrakion, glad to see it gaining usage. I love that your Groudon is very different than most Groudons being used, SD and RP is a pretty boss set. Great team. All-in-all, this team is an extremely standard sun team, with a few twists here and there. The only negative I have, to be honest, is the lack of Reshiram, but that's ok, honestly, as I don't really see the appeal for it.
  7. Bossness

    Bossness

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    440
    From my playing experience with Xatu, i noticed that set up sweepers and kyogre are keen on switching in directly to xatu. I would recommend using U-turn over hidden power so that say for example, extremekiller switches in and you use u-turn. You can immediately send in ghost arceus to burn it instead of facing a +2 extremekiller. Note: The Groudon analysis is sort of outdated since the speed evs are used to outspeed choice scarf garchomp from last generation after a rock polish. This generation, however, terrakion has usurped garchomp's position as the premier physical revenge killer. So i recommend 176 speed evs to outspeed terrakion after rock polish.
  8. Sylth

    Sylth

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Thanks for all the feedback guys!

    Crazydude323 - Psychic isn't needed as it isn't really hitting anything hard and HP fire gets the sun boost when it's there.

    Adam Lambert - I have considered a Reshiram before, but I can't think of anything to replace for it. Ho-oh is the only thing that springs to mind but that would mean I lose a pseudo special sponge, though the sheer power that Reshiram brings is a nice thought. If I was to implement it into this team what set would you recommend? Choice specs or flame charge is what I can think of to put pressure on people like Ho-Oh does.

    Anikrahman1995 - U-turn on Xatu is a good point and I can see its uses so I'll test it out. Up till now when I predicted a threat like that I'd just put up the appropriate screen and swap to a counter for that mon but U-turn would help keep the momentum and that extra damage is always nice. Thanks for the spot on Groudon's set, I've changed the Evs as you suggested!
  9. Adam Lambert

    Adam Lambert

    Joined:
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    Yeah, those are pretty much the only Reshiram sets worth using, unless you want to use Sub over Flame Charge. Also, that would be the only mon you could switch out for Reshiram, if you wanted to, that is. Ho-Oh. I, honestly, think this team is great without Reshiram, and, as you said, you can't even fit Reshiram into this team, as, it would be very hard to do so.
  10. Sylth

    Sylth

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    As you said Ho-oh isn't replaceable so I'll stick with him, thanks for the rate!
  11. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    Hey Solis, interesting sun team you got here.


    Choice Specs Kyogre is going to demolish your team with ease. Your only safe switch in is Ferrothorn, which gets outsped and 2HKOed by Water Spout. Everything else is outright OHKOed by Water Spout or Hydro Pump. Sure, you can weaken it with Stealth Rock and Terrakion, but you will lose a lot of your team members by doing so. Therefore, I recommend switching Terrakion with Choice Scarf Palkia.

    Palkia (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Spacial Rend
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast


    Palkia's 4x resist to Water, great STAB and insane coverage, and its base 100 Speed makes it a remarkable Choice Scarf in general, and specifically a great counter to Kyogre. Using Choice Scarf and not Lustrous Orb gives you insurance against Dragon Dance Rayquaza and Mixed Rayquaza, which are now a bit more common. Palkia outspeeds +1 Rayquaza and smacks with its Dragon STAB in Spacial Rend or Draco Meteor. Feel free to use Outrage or Stone Edge over Draco Meteor to get past Chansey and Ho-Oh, though I really enjoy having Draco Meteor as it outright OHKOes Darkrai.

    I suggest bumping up Ho-Oh HP to 405, which means buming its HP EVs to 208 HP. Doing so will allow Ho-Oh to switch twice into Stealth Rock and still retaining the ability to create 101 Subtitutes against Blissey and Chansey. Take them out of Special Defense or Attack, it doesn't really matter where you take out 16 EVs from (personally I'd take them out of Special Defense because I like Ho-Oh's power).

    Another thing you could try is using Perish Song over Flamethrower on your Ghost Arceus. Doing so will allow you to beat late-game sweepers, such as SubCM Mewtwo and Extreme Killer Arceus, putting a lot of pressure under them. I also suggest changing its EV spread to 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 Spe, with the same nature you use (Timid nature). This spread allow Arceus to outrun Terrakion and it has a little more physical bulk which can come in handy against Extreme Killer Arceus and such.

    Now to your Ferrothorn's moveset. Why are we wasting a precious moveslot on Stealth Rock, when it learns Spikes? Spikes are extremely helpful for Ho-Oh's sweep, weakening its main revengers and counters extremely quickly.

    But with Terrakion's removal, and changing Spikes to Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn, you lack a solid counter to the likes of Salamence and Rayquaza. Thus, I suggest you changing your Groudon to the standard Support set:

    Groudon (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Roar
    - Stone Edge


    With Stone Edge you can easily land tons of damage on Rayquaza and Salamence while still being able to tank a few hits. You also preserve Stealth Rock by your side, making your life a lot easier against Offensive varianted teams and Flying-types. You can use Dragon Tail over Roar, but I prefer Roar so I could phaze away Substitute Pokemon, like the same Ho-Oh you're using.

    The threats you mentioned are now covered pretty well. Ho-Oh makes a phenomenal counter to any Calm Mind Arceus, Giratina-A can be played around with Ferrothorn's Leech Seed, Ghost Arceus, and now Palkia, and Mewtwo can be stopped by Ghost Arceus and Palkia. Reshiram is also covered by Palkia, you just have to play carefully with it.

    tl;dr (open)
    • Choice Scarf Palkia > Choice Scarf Terrakion
    • Bumping Ho-Oh's HP EVs to 208
    • Perish Song > Flamethrower on Ghost Arceus
    • Changing Ghost Arceus's spread to 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 Spe (Timid Nature)
    • Spikes > Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn
    • Support Groudon > Double Dancer Groudon


    That's it, Good Luck!
  12. Sylth

    Sylth

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    Messages:
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    Wow, Thanks for the rate Furai!
    For a while I knew I needed Palkia to cover the obvious Kyogre weakness, but didn't know what how cover everything that Terrakion did once I removed it. With your help the team's incredibly solid and as long as I don't get critted all over the place or haxed out I tend to win, with the exception of my opponent being better than me of course... All in all fantastic rate, it's really helped me patch up some of the teams big and not so big weaknesses!
  13. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Anytime, but I encourage you to change Draco Meteor to Outrage on Palkia. You need another thing to get past Mewtwo if it has a few Special Defense boosts under its belt. Change the nature to Hasty, and move the filler EVs to Attack, to give it a slight boost in power.
  14. Sylth

    Sylth

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    Oh of course, I have noticed a minor Dialga weakness now that Terrakion is gone, but it's not one that can't be worked around. EVs, Nature and moveset all changed as suggested.
  15. Bossness

    Bossness

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
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    I forgot to mention something. I always preferred a speedy ho-oh. It can stall out groudon's stone edge, dialga's dragon pulse and some others. The ho-oh I use is:
    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 208 HP / 136 Atk / 80 SDef / 84 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Substitute
    - Recover
    Now you may be wondering - why reduce attack? Its because without life orb, Ho-oh cannot OHKO some pokemon. It still 2hkos kyogre and the speed is used to get the jump on most slow base 90s and tentacruel. The attack evs ensure that rayquaza dies to brave bird after stealth rock and one round of life orb recoil.
  16. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Ho-Oh is probably the best offensive Special Wall in the game. Like it beats Calm Mind Arceus, it will beat Dialga, as it is able to easily sponge its attacks and Recover the damage off.
  17. Sylth

    Sylth

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    Mar 5, 2012
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    @Furai - Oh dear, I am an idiot. I think it was pretty late when I wrote that post/played that game. Apologies for the idiocy there...
    @Anik - That set looks pretty good, I'm going to test it first and see how it goes after a couple of matches then I'll get back to you!
  18. Faint

    Faint Valar morghulis
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    I don't understand the point of Xatu when you have SR + spikes in the form of Groudon and Ferrothorn. You also run dual screens when nothing on your team sets up, so I'm thinking you might as well replace Ferrothorn and Xatu for Forretress. This will let you spin for ho-oh and not have to worry about relying on Xatu to prevent SR against heavy hitters like Groudon and Dialga.

    If you decide to do that you can use the extra spot for Heatran or a sun abuser which would give you the standard sun team and core. If you use Heatran you would have the same team as me (which is very effective) except I run Giratina-O as my ghost and very different ev spreads. Good luck.
  19. Sylth

    Sylth

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    Hmm. I suppose that with the double dance Groudon gone I no longer have the need for Dual Screens and I have been feeling that Xatu is now more of a liability. Heatran seems to be a nice fit for the team, and I could then replace Ferrothorn with Forretress.

    Now that Arceus has been given perish song it can't really come in on Extreme Killer and kill with flamethrower on one with lowered health, which is annoying. So Giratina-O might actually do the job better than Arceus. I guess I'll just test them when I can find time.

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