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Solrock

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by FLCL, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. FLCL

    FLCL
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction

    The recent tier shift was extremely kind to stall, giving it another reliable Spiker in Roselia and taking away Emboar, which was the best wallbreaker in the tier. I decided to build a team around the core of Bastiodon | Misdreavus | Roselia | Alomomola, which provided two walls on each side of the spectrum, Stealth Rock, Spikes, Phazing, Wish support, Perish Song support, and a spin-blocker, which makes it incredibly hard to beat. All I lacked was a Heal Bell user, so I slapped on Licklicky, who could also pass Wishes against the specially attacking foes that Alomomola had troubles with. Skuntank was later added to deal with Duosion and Musharna better while serving as an additional Phazer.

    This team is relatively easy to play compared to some of the more offensive teams that players use in NU. There is a lot less prediction involved since all you need to do is see which member of your team counters the opponent's active Pokemon and react accordingly. However, there are times where a sacrifice needs to be made in order to set up a crucial layer of hazards or deal with a certain threat. However, there are only a few Pokemon that I will cover later which need to be dealt this way.


    The Team

    [​IMG]
    Bastiodon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Magic Coat

    Bastiodon's unique support movepool makes it an extremely useful member of the team. It provides Stealth Rocks which are the basis of any stall team and can phaze around the opponent's team, racking up hazards damage. Flying-types generally have trouble with Bastiodon and usually get forced out quite easily. Substitute Bulk Up Braviary, the bane of many stall teams, is completely neutralized by Roar in conjunction with Perish Song from Misdreavus, in the case where it becomes the last Pokemon. Toxic lets Bastiodon spread passive damage and greatly annoys many of the bulky Ground-types that like to switch in. This team doesn't carry Toxic Spikes, so poisoning as many Pokemon as possible will make the rest of the team's jobs a lot easier. Magic Coat is a nasty surprise for the opponent, allowing me to bounce back any status move, Taunt, or hazards from opposing Spikers, which usually lack a way of damaging Bastiodon. Between Roar, Toxic, and Magic Coat, opposing Pokemon are generally hard-pressed to set up against this guy even though it carries no attacking moves.

    [​IMG]
    Roselia @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Spikes
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Rest

    Spikes can be devastating for offensive teams to face, especially when they're constantly being forced out by the defensive Pokemon on this team. Roselia is a wonderful user of the move because it can find multiple opportunitites to set up against Electric, Grass, and even certain Water types. Even Ice Beams have trouble breaking through Roselia unless they're STAB'ed and the flower can the Rest up and switch out with full health. However, its typing leaves much to be desired in the face of many Fire or Psychic types in the tier. The lack of recovery makes Roselia easily worn down by Pokemon spamming Volt Switch, since it's usually the first to come in against Electric-types.

    [​IMG]
    Alomomola @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Protect
    - Waterfall
    - Wish
    - Toxic

    Alomomola is the MVP of the team, passing around huge wishes effortlessly to team members without reliable recovery, thanks to Regenerator. It walls the majority of the physical attackers in the tier without breaking a sweat. If this guy goes down then the team usually starts to fall apart since Licklicky can't handle the pressure of passing Wishes to other members and healing itself at the same time. As you will read in the threat list later, physical attackers that can get past Alomomola are some of the biggest threats to this team.

    [​IMG]
    Misdreavus @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Perish Song
    - Pain Split

    Misdreavus prevents Rapid Spin users from having their way with this team and acts as the Fighting-type counter of the team. Without it, Sawk could just spam Close Combat and eventually break through even Alomomola. It is also my only line of defense against physical Grass-types such as Torterra and Sawsbuck, rendering them useless for the rest of the match with Will-O-Wisp. Perish Song is useful for getting rid of last Pokemon, especially set-up sweepers such as Duosion or Braviary.

    [​IMG]
    Skuntank @ Leftovers
    Trait: Aftermath
    EVs: 236 HP / 236 SDef / 36 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Roar
    - Poison Jab
    - Sucker Punch / Crunch
    - Taunt

    I posted this set a while ago claiming that it would do well on stall teams, but I never really got around to actually building one myself until now. Specially Defensive Skuntank's role is to counter the Psychic-types that dominate the tier. Even Hidden Power Grounds do pathetic damage to it due to near maximum investment. The choice between Sucker Punch or Crunch depends on if one wants to do more consistent damage to threats like Musharna or if they like hitting faster threats such as Ludicolo. It could also go over Taunt, but Skuntank really enjoys having it in order to prevent Leech Seeds, Sleep Powders, and Spikes. Roar is an excellent option to rack up hazards damage against Ground and Rock types that like to switch into Skuntank. The EVs look a bit odd, but they're used to outpace standard Misdreavus and hit a Leftovers number.

    [​IMG]
    Lickilicky @ Leftovers
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Return
    - Heal Bell

    Lickilicky is probably the weakest link of the team, but it provides Heal Bell support, which is useful if a random physical attacker uses Toxic on Alomomola or if Skuntank gets burned by Gardevoir. It takes care of the special attacking threats that Bastiodon and Roselia can't handle, mainly powerful Fire and some Water-types. Lickilicky doesn't do much in most matches, but when it does come out its role is usually pretty important.


    Threat List

    [​IMG] Sawsbuck is by far the biggest threat to this team. It can break through even member of the team with ease, except for Misdreavus and to an extent, Lickilicky. However, those two both take huge amounts of damage as well and the former can be worn down throughout the match. I usually have to rely on statusing it before it can set up or hitting it with either Sludge Bomb or Poison Jab from Roselia or Skuntank, both of which are nearly OHKO'ed by Sawsbuck.

    [​IMG] Torterra is in the same boat as Sawsbuck, but is outpaced by Misdreavus and can be worn down through recoil much faster. However, it does hit much harder than Sawsbuck and is much bulkier.

    [​IMG] Electric-types in general are annoying because they can come in on Alomomola and spam Volt Switch, which will always give the opposing team the upper hand.

    [​IMG] Fire-types can really hurt this team if they are packing Life Orb and Focus Blast. They can plow through my special walls if they can connect twice in a row against Bastiodon and Lickilicky. Charizard in Sun can break through this team easily, although there's not much one can do about that.

    [​IMG] Hazards are tough for this team to face since it has no Rapid Spinner and it wears down the walls rather quickly. Garbodor and Roselia can find multiple opportunuites to come in and set up. I usually have to Taunt them with Skuntank or spam Magic Coat with Bastiodon and then Roar them around until they're dead.


    Importable (open)
    Alomomola @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Protect
    - Waterfall
    - Wish
    - Toxic

    Roselia @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Spikes
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Rest

    Misdreavus @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Perish Song
    - Pain Split

    Lickilicky @ Leftovers
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Return
    - Heal Bell

    Bastiodon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Magic Coat

    Skuntank @ Leftovers
    Trait: Aftermath
    EVs: 236 HP / 236 SDef / 36 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Roar
    - Poison Jab
    - Sucker Punch
    - Taunt
  2. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
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    Glad to see my Skuntank set that I posted, i have a really a similar stall team w/ this Roar Skuntank. http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4536096&postcount=247

    I should to use Scald > Waterfall on Alomomola since the damage doesnt matter but the 30% to burn is really nice! And also for Musharna / Gardevoir Sincro just you're running Skuntank which can beat both.

    You should to try Regirock > Bastiodon, to beat more easily SubBU Braviary & other stuff but Bastiodon really helps with drag mons.

    Good team! Luvdisc.

    p.s: i saw that you was posting the same set but now is effective.
  3. ium

    ium rowan is an ape
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    bastiodon / roselia / alomomola / misdreavus / skuntank / lickilicky

    okay, there was some discussion on this team already, but basically the fact is that sawsbuck has the potential to dent any stall team no matter what unless you run unorthodox stuff, like WORMADAM. adding a second check to sawsbuck is pretty much necessary, because misdreavus isn't the end-all-be-all check, especially if sawsbuck is a substitute variant. charizard is also a big problem, but i would try to focus less on that because charizard is less common and focus blast variants are seen even less.

    because of all of that, i will second what we discussed earlier and use physically defensive sap sipper miltank over lickilicky. it checks sawsbuck, and it still has heal bell. for the free moveslot, i guess you can use thunder wave to stop certain things if need be.

    summary:
    bastiodon / roselia / alomomola / misdreavus / skuntank / miltank lickilicky


    i tried thinking about some stuff like mixed defense alomomola, and i honestly even considered wormadam... lol. but the synergy in this team is just too intricate and there isn't much else that can be changed to check stuff like bambi or charizard without going with offensive or really niche pokemon. :( i suppose you can try to find a way to fit tangela in there if you want?

    gr8 team tho.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
  4. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Hooray for NU stall! I like this team a lot, as it has good defensive synergy and can handle a lot of threats at once while easily outlasting the opponent. I concede that I too struggle with physically based Grass-types and hazards, but there isn't much one can do about that without drastically changing the structure of the team.

    That said, I find Rest on Roselia a bit redundant when you have not one, but two Wish passers on the team. One thing you could try is Toxic Spikes, which can speed up the stalling process, distract Heal Bellers and hinders the physical Grass-types that threaten your team. However, it is kinda deadweight against Poison-types, which your team lacks a way to quickly dispatch, so just a note.

    Psychic-types are also a problem for stall teams, be it Magic Guard, Trick or just sheer offensive presence. Skuntank can check them remarkably well, but another option is Liepard, who boasts much more speed, providing yet another check against a rampaging Sawsbuck. Encore can also be used to force switches and get free Subs, but Roar on Bastiodon already covers setup sweepers for the most part. Liepard's other draw is to also deal with last pokemon setup sweepers by outright discouraging setup of any sort. This can free up a slot of Perish Song on Misdreavus for that Heal Bell you wanted so bad, which in turn frees up the slot of Lickilicky, which you said was the weakest link of the team (and rightfully so, it is SSmash Gorebyss's best chance for a setup). If you do choose to keep Lickilicky anyway, Dragon Tail can stop setup, while Sub boosters can be phazed out by Bastiodon anyway.

    The Fire and Electric weakness can be patched up with a defensive Dragon, such as Altaria, Dragonair or Shelgon. As an added bonus, all three can phaze (Altaria and Shelogon have Roar, while Nair has Dragon Tail). They are also among the few to stand up to Eelektross's huge coverage (Bastiodon and Licky should watch out for the ocassional Superpower), so they are worth a look.

    This is the most shaky suggestion thus far, but if you really want to fix the Grass weakness, Golbat is an option, boasting good overall bulk, Taunt, reliable recovery and harassing moves such as Super Fang, Haze and Whirlwind. While it looks good on paper, Golbat's problems are its stacked weaknesses with Roselia (an integral part of the team) and competition for Fighting and Ground counter with Misdreavus, who can burn its opponents.

    These suggestions should be taken with a grain of salt, as you're admittedly a better battler than I, but seeing another fellow NU stall team, I couldn't help but throw in my two cents. Alomomola'd.
  5. FLCL

    FLCL
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    I'll try out Scald on Alomomola, but Bastiodon and Regirock play differently and I really need the team support it brings. It handles SubBU Braviary well enough and I can always Perish Song it when it becomes the last Pokemon.

    Yeah Miltank seems like a good option here, although I will become significantly weaker to Samurott if I use a physically defensive spread. I guess you can't cover everything...

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I don't really like using Stealth Rock weak Pokemon on a stall team since it relies a lot on switching into Pokemon and countering them. Dragon-types are interesting, but they don't really fulfill a specific role on a stall team so I'm not sure what I'll replace...

    Liepard is a bit frail for my tastes, and it's hit by Signal Beam super effectively so I'll probably keep Skuntank.

    Toxic Spikes on Roselia is very interesting and I can see it working so I'll try it out.



    Thanks everyone!
  6. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    Why are you using Waterfall on Alomomola... Scald is honestly the much superior option. Other than that, cool team FLCL
  7. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist 40 more
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    It's been a few days and I've been avoiding rating this team (Stall's not my style). I've still had trouble thinking of what you could possibly replace Lickilicky for, since that is definitely the most expendable. Sap Sipper Miltank is a great idea, though it makes Banded Sawk with Knock Off a bit harder to deal with than it should be, especially since you have no way to Spin away opposing hazards.

    I've played around with the slot, and Musharna was something I feel you should test for your team. It still provides an excellent cleric for your team, and is an all-around bulky Pokemon that you can use to tank hits. The physically bulky pivot set works very well with your team, as does the CM mono-attacker set (you already know the benefits of both sets). Mushy ends up helping you out with Charizard and Spikers a bit better, and is still an alright switch in to Electric-types and unboosted Sawsbuck.

    Change?

    Musharna>Lickilicky

    Show Hide
    Musharna @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Psychic
    - Heal Bell
    - Moonlight
    - Baton Pass/Thunder Wave/Calm Mind


    If this isn't to your liking, then congrats! I have nothing else I can add atm! Good luck with improving your team and I hope I helped! :heart:
  8. FLCL

    FLCL
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    Honestly Scald doesn't have as many benefits on this team since I'd rather Toxic Pokemon and wear them down rather than burn them. Getting the wrong status on something like Gurdurr can prove to be troublesome for this team. Vileplume is a non threat to this team so burning it on the switch doesn't count for much. Plus, Alomomola already beats all the physical attackers that it burns with Scald, so I don't see how it is that much better than Waterfall. However, the burn on Garbodor is pretty useful and it sure does like to switch into Alomomola and set up, so I guess I'll try it out even though I never get burns in my favor.

    Musharna seems like a cool option to use over Lickilicky in order for this team to gain some sweeping capabilities. It's so amazing in the tier right now so I'll try it out for sure. :heart:
  9. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    please don't use Scald on Alomomola. If you accidently burn Gurdurr youve put yourself in a negative situation. It conflicts with all the status on your team, Scald is just generally a bad idea.


    I've spent awhile looking for ways to improve this team, because it is really good. And Lickilicky is clearly the weak link, like you said most matches it won't do anything.

    So I'm trying to fix your Sawsbuck weakness as well as I can, and I believe that a defensive Shelgon could help your team out quite a bit.

    The set I recommend is:

    Shelgon @ Eviolite
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Protect / Roar
    - Dragon Claw
    - Wish
    - Toxic


    This set allows you to take on Torterra and Sawsbuck a lot better, while maintaining the Wish support that Lickilicky provides. It is able to take on Sawsbuck decently well(as well as anything in NU can), and counters Torterra, while also resisting Electric and Fire attacks. Don't go switching it into Fire Blast though, it will get maimed pretty badly. The Dragon Dance set could also work, but it does not fit with your team nearly as well. Protect vs Roar is a choice between sustaining Shelgon more, or helping out the team. Roar is a rally cool move, and you could definitely use another phazer on your team, but Protect is really helpful against physical attackers that could wear you down otherwise. You already have a bunch of good special walls in Roselia, Skuntank, and Bastiodon. So I don't think you'll be missing out on to much by adding another physical one.

    Other than that I don't have much else to say, this is a great team and a defining one right now. Best of luck!! If you have any questions about Shelgon let me know :)


    tl;dr (open)

    Shelgon > Lickilicky
  10. Iris

    Iris

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    waterfall also breaks 4/0 gard subs 100% of the time which is always nice if someone played well against skuntank
  11. FLCL

    FLCL
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    Shelgon is a nice counter to Sawsbuck and Torterra, but replacing Lickilicky with it means that I lose Heal Bell. Plus, this team has no way to remove hazards, which means that Shelgon can be worn down really quickly due to lack of Leftovers.

    Yeah I might just stick to using Waterfall after all.
  12. WillSO

    WillSO

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    Altaria is perhaps an alternative to Lickilicky. Wish, Heal Bell, standalone recovery in the form of Roost, can phase easily, Perish Song, etc.

    Fully defensive investment is unorthodox but perhaps viable given the Sawsbuck threat.
  13. FLCL

    FLCL
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    Yeah Altaria has been mentioned a few times, but I dislike it because it makes me weaker to Water-types with Ice Beam and hazards. It also doesn't counter Sawsbuck since it dies to a boosted Double Edge.

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