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Some Nights.

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by MagicShedinja, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. MagicShedinja

    MagicShedinja

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    38
    [BW2 Uber] Some Nights.

    Hi Smogon, welcome on my first RMT here on your wonderful community. this is my last Uber Team and after a few changes it works very well, but i'm a bit insecure on some things so i decided to post this to receive tips before i'll make this Team on my Nintendo 3DS. the team is a quite standard balanced Sun team featuring Ho-oh, the only Uber pokemon that i haven't try yet. the name of the team is random lol but i listen to this song whe i use this team lol. so let's see the Team!

    Team at a glance:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Building Phase:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    As said, this team is centered around Ho-oh. i've tried two sets, the Tailwind Sweeper and the SubRoost Tank. at the end, i choose the latter because is more reliable, and i hate Recoil of Life Orb on Ho-oh.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    to support the phoenix, i added the classic core of Groudon and Forretress that is used most of the time alongside Ho-oh. Groundon brings out the sun and setups Stealth Rock while checking RockCeus and Zekrom, the main Ho-oh counters. Forretress setup Spikes and Spin for Ho-oh and has good synergy with the flaming phoenix.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    obviously, this is a Sun Team, and every Sun Team need at least 2 Checks to Kyogre, or the team will fail. so i decided to take a surefire counter to the whale, and a more generic check to back up. the surefire counter i choose is Giratina, it can take on choice version with ease and phaze out Calm Mind versions. furthermore, it can Spinblock and checks Deo-A and Mewtwo, as well as most CMArceuses.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    the "more generic check to Kyogre" i choose is this particular WaterCeus: i Choose it because my team had issues with Specal Dragons, like Reshiram, Kyurem-W, Dialga and Palkia, and Arceus can check all of them while still checking Kyogres.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    last, but non least, i needed a Revengekiller, because i think that every Uber team needs one. i noticed that i was weak to Mewtwo and Rayquaza, so i choose Genesect, that can Revengekill the two titans and give me momentium.


    Last versions of the team:

    Show Hide

    V1.0
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    the first version was more standard than the actual: the former three menbers was the same (besides Ho-oh, that was offensive), but the counter for kyogre i choose was Specially Defensive Latias. i saw it on the analysis and it is very cool. then i've added SDGhostCeus because i wanted a good sweeper and spinblocker, with ScarfPalkia to Revengekill and for a second Kyogre Check. this version was fine, but i didn't Like ScarfKia, it was a bit weak, and i couldn't use arceus fine.

    V2.0
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I chenged the last two members with other two pokemons that can Check Kyogre and Rkillm and i changed the Ho-oh set... i finally insert Genesect, and it demostrated to be good, and instead of GhostCeus i put CMGiratina. firstly i used the SubCM set with Aura Sphere and Shadow Ball, hten i changed it with the ResttalkCM set becuase statuses really ruins his sweep. this version was actually good, but i had to much problem with Kyogre, because Giratina can't take Water Spout very well, so if Latias died kyogre became a problem.

    V3.0
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The problem with the old versions was always the same: Special Dragon-Types. so i Needed a good Check and i found it by clicking randomly on the Strategy Dex: WaterCeus provided me with a good Check To Kyogre and ALL the Special Dragon of the MG. so i put it in place of Giratina, but without it, i hasn't a Spinblocker... so i decided to change Latias with Giratina SpDef, and it works just as fine.

    V4.0

    well, let's see if there will be, with your tips :toast:.



    [​IMG]
    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    • Earthquake
    • Overheat
    • Roar
    • Stealth Rock

    Why This Pokemon?
    The Standard Physically Defensive Groudon. i choose this set without a reason, was the first set that comes into my mind and i use it lol. but it works well: is an emergency check to things like DDQUaza and EKCeus, as well as Zekrom and RockCeus. Earthquake and Stealth Rock are obvious moves here, while Overheat is an uncommon move for Baitkilling Ferrothorns, Forretress and Skarmory, who can wall this set and Setup hazards..., furthermore, Overheat is stronger against other Groudons. Roar is to phaze, but i was thinking to change it with Thunder Wave because i have a lot of Phazing moves in this team, so i don't need it. Evs Spread is pretty standard, i want all the physical Bulk it can get.
    Possible Changes:
    a more offensive Set, (like the offensive lead with three attacks and SR) or change Overheat with Stone Edge to solve the Ho-oh problem and Thunder Wave over Roar.

    [​IMG]
    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 172 Atk / 88 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    • Sacred Fire
    • Brave Bird
    • Substitute
    • Roost

    Why This Pokemon?
    Before using this set, i pratically used all the other sets listed... firstly i Used the Tailwind Sweeper, but it sucks because between Stealth Rock Damage, Life Orb and Brave Bird Recoil it died very quickly, so i cahnged to the three attacks + Roost, but i didn't use Earthquake so much, so i change it with this, the standard SubRoost set, and i noticed thai is standard for a reason, in fact is the best. with SubRoost i can stall out SEdge PPs and recover in face of Thunders, Sacred Fire is the motherfucking move that Hax 50% of the time, while Brave Bird is a strong move against Kyogres, 2HKOing all the versions..
    in the Evs Spread i moved the 88 Evs from SpDef to Speed, becuase i want it a bit faster..
    Possible Changes
    None, maybe a new Evs Spread?

    [​IMG]
    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    • Volt Switch
    • Toxic
    • Spikes
    • Rapid Spin
    Why This Pokemon?
    i always Hated Forretress: i think is a setup fodder for everything, but with this set its not so bad. it can beat most physical Arceus, (EkCeus in particular) by using Toxic on it, is a good pokemon for pillaring if it needs to, can toxic Giratina-O on the Switch and can setup Spikes on physical dragon locked on Outrage. Volt Switch is for gain Momentum, but i'm thinking of change it with Pain Split for Semi-Recovery.
    Possible Changes
    Pain Split on Volt Switch, and maybe a new Evs Spread because this is quite Random..

    [​IMG]
    Giratina @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    • Dragon Tail
    • Roar
    • Sleep Talk
    • Rest

    Why This Pokemon?

    Specially Defensive Giratina is one of the only Kyogre's Counter that isn't only a Kyogre's Counter (like Gastrodon), in fact it can check FSDeo-A, Some Mewtwos, and most Calm Mind Arceus, and phazing them. Set is pretty Standard, but i'm thinking to change Dtail with Outrage, because a Phazing Move is enough
    Possible Changes:
    Outrage or Dragon Claw over Dragon Tail


    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 204 SDef / 56 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    • Ice Beam
    • Thunder Wave
    • Roar
    • Recover
    Why This Pokemon?
    this is IHMO the best set for Water Arceus: i find that the Calm Mind is an inferior CMKyogre or manaphy. with his special bulk can easily take Draco Meteors even specsed, and recover before the seconde strickes thanks to Speed Evs. THnder Wave is for paralyzing things i predict, like Shaymin-S or Rayquaza, and hit them with Ice Beam. Roar is another phazing move for other CMCeus and CMKyogres. Recover says all. Evs Spread for outspeed SpecsKyurem-W and rewcover before the second Draco Meteor. Sometimes i think to change it with Specially Defensive Kyogre, but it can interfere with Groudon.
    Possible Changes:
    Perish Song instead of Roar, or change it with SPDef Kyogre

    [​IMG]
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    • U-turn
    • Iron Head
    • Ice Beam
    • Explosion

    Why This Pokemon?
    Because is the best Revengekiller in Ubers just like it was in OU. U-Turn brings me momentium and OHKOs Mewtwo and Deo-S after Rocks, as well as Kyogre. Iron Head is awesome to kill Kyurems and is a good STAB in general for Lategame Sweeping. Ice Beam is Mostly for Rayquaza, but in can 2HKOs most Zekrom and Groudons. Explosion is great for last pokemon and for end battle with Badass Style lol and is the most powerful move against Ho-oh. i think that physical version is better in Ubers then the Special one.
    Possible Changes:

    Thunderbolt / Flamethrower instead of Explosion.

    Conclusion:
    I think this is the best Uber team i've ever made, but is not perfect: enemys Ho-oh are a major threat if played well, usually i have to Explode with Genesect and lose my RKiller. Giratinas and lugia are annoying as well, but not so problematic.

    Hope you like this team :) give me a luvdisc if you want, it'll be appreciated, and sorry all grammatical errors ;)

    ETT
    Show Hide

    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Earthquake
    - Overheat
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock

    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 172 Atk / 88 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Toxic
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin

    Giratina-O (Giratina) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Roar
    - Sleep Talk
    - Rest

    Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 204 SDef / 56 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder Wave
    - Roar
    - Recover

    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Beam
    - Explosion
  2. Hack He Must

    Hack He Must
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    822
    Solid team!

    IMO two checks to Kyogre could be used, but really, the better way would be to try and grab more momentum against rain teams anyway. It's a little overkill with two such sturdy checks because they contribute to zero offensive presence together. Add Forretress any you have 3 pokemon barely able to damage the foe except for status, but only Forretress carries a damaging one. While this is ok on a stall team, and if you want to go stall I would recommend a better way to check opposing Ho-oh. I'd change the Giratina to physically defensive. It can pressure stall Ho-oh (and phaze) as well as roaring out or burning E-killer.

    Giratina can still take Kyogre's hits okay, in sun at least. Barring specs, ofc. For example Scarfogre can only 2HKO you will ice beam.

    252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina: 214-254 (42.54 - 50.49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    And only with SR up. Arceus water can handle specs Kyogre, which is enough. Dragon Tail over Roar on Groudon in my opinion, you can get some nice chip damage on E-killer, which is good.

    Concerning Ho-oh's ev spread, what are 88 speed for exactly? It's too much for speed creep, so please elaborate. Not entirely sold on Overheat Groudon, but I have never used it and it feels like it could work.

    Giratina set:
    Show Hide
    Giratina @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 12 Spd / 248 HP / 248 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar
    - Sleep Talk
    - Rest

  3. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,739
    this team is solid, but has a notable lack of offense, that does not pair well with relying on genesect alone to check the things that it does.

    at any rate not much can be done to alleviate this without changing two or more members, and the team is not bad by any means.

    however, i can suggest a few optimizations, fire blast > overheat on groudon for consistent damage. stone edge over roar will help with ho-oh somewhat, and using a phys.def ho-oh with whirlwind > substitute will further help with the turkey, but gimps your offense even more - just something to consider.

    last mon cm pokemon that can beat ho-oh look troublesome as well, so i would put perish song on water arceus over roar.

    good luck
  4. MagicShedinja

    MagicShedinja

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    38
    thanks for the rates ;) i know that this team lacks offense but it's my playstyle and i'm fine with that.

    i already changed Roar with perish song, after being swept by a CM Lugia with Gust lol. i changed Groudon Moveset with Stone Edge and Fire Blast.
  5. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,299
    Try Fire Punch on Groudon IMO, it works just as well (based off of way high Atk stat and perfect accuracy). And then too add some offense without changing the team overly much, consider Giratina-O with Outrage/Shadow Sneak/Dragon Tail/Will-O-Wisp, because I think Ho-oh and Lati@s to an extent (if Genesect is down) toys with your team. Solid team nontheless though! :)

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