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Gen 4 Some Simple Team That I Want You To Rate

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Umby, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 25, 2005
    Marlon Brando (Machamp) (F) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: No Guard
    EVs: 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SDef / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - DynamicPunch
    - Bullet Punch
    - Stone Edge
    - Payback

    I went with Stone Edge over Ice Punch to help deal with Zapdos and Gyarados so Heatran/Shaymin and Starmie, respectively, can conserve some health.

    Dr. Killinger (Gengar) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Protect
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Plastic Knife (Skarmory) (F) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind

    Prism (Starmie) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Rapid Spin

    Not sure if I need Rapid Spin. I'd like Recover if I can afford to lose Spin for it, so as to keep it around as long as the opponent's Heatran is still alive. I think everyone generally keeps Spikes/Toxic Spikes from being set up, but no one here really cares about Stealth Rock.

    Red Velvet (Heatran) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect

    As the primary special tank, I prefer Roar over Earth Power to move random stuff like CM Cresselia out of the way. Since my primary strategy is scouting with Protect, it also works for Choice users trying to get out with U-Turn. Leaves me open to opposing Heatran, but I lose that 1v1 any way.

    Signs of Love (Shaymin) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Seed Flare
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Protect
    - Leech Seed

    Another excuse to use Protect.

    Can't really be too descriptive about my building process here. I took two particularly dangerous Pokemon (Machamp and Starmie), tossed in Heatran/Shaymin for that FWG core you kids are so crazy about, and used Gengar as a spinblocker. I like using Protect a lot in a game with so many Choice users, which somewhat allows me to switch around comfortably. Pretty much, wreck as much as I can on the first turn with Machamp, set up hazards, and frustrate the shit out of most choice users while I move around and force switches however I like.

    What is this game and how do I play it?
  2. BKC

    BKC It's always nice to be included in a sentence someone says.
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis a defending World Cup of Pokemon championis the Smogon Tour Season 22 Champion

    May 22, 2010
    i think machamp is really out of place here, since on such a defensive team as yours, you will want your hazards set up as soon as possible. i would get rid of it for, say, choice band tyranitar, and then move skarmory or heatran to the lead position; ttar will help starmie spin by trapping rotom-a and the occasional dusknoir [you do not need to run a scarf set in order to trap gengar because starmie outruns it and kills it in two hits with ease, which is actually a problem you face yourself by using gengar as your spinblocker, but more on that later]. cbtar also gives you something your team could really find useful -- a bulky hard hitter. machamp may be fairly bulky and he hits hard, but his bulk, power, and general utility pales in comparison to cbtar. however, if you are intent on keeping machamp, the lum set is outdated; it gets ohkoed by cb azelf zen headbutts and specs/life orb heatran overheats, so try focus sash as the item. instead of being down 5-6 after the first turn and having to deal with your opponent's entire team at full health, you can kill their lead while surviving at 1 hp, forcing them to reveal another mon to revenge you, which lets you then switch in the appropriate counter and seize momentum. without lum you lose the ability to beat roserade, but most rade will run in terror or use leaf storm at the sight of machamp, so you should be fine there.

    gengar is a terrible spinblocker in dpp because the two most common spinners have no trouble killing it; starmie is faster and can 1-2hko depending on the choice of hydro pump/surf + the amount of sp atk investment it has, while the other common spinner, forretress, kills in one shot with payback. as a final nail in the coffin of sorts, teams with these two mons often have scarftar to remove ghosts, and because gengar doesnt have sub, it is incredibly prone to being trapped. since your team could use some speed, try a scarf rotom-w over gengar. it can take a hit or two from starmie, outrun, and ohko, while it can tank a payback from forretress before pivoting into heatran to force it out and make it take more damage from hazards. if you have sme hazards up, rotom can even 2hko scarftar switch-ins provided you predict correctly. use an ev spread of 252 hp / 36 spatk / 220 spe, with a timid nature and moveset of thunderbolt/hydro pump/hidden power ice/trick. max hp evs may seem weird on a scarfer but they are needed so rotom can stick around, and with hazard support the lowered damage output is barely noticeable.

    if you make this change, you now have rotom to revenge kill dd dragonites / mixed flygons, which means you dont need ice beam on starmie or hp ice on shaymin; so, try recover on the former and hp fire on the latter. you will want starmie to stick around as long as it can on a defensive team like this. hp fire is generally better coverage for shaymin vs mons like scizor and forretress. sr + leech seed really bothers dragonite, and flygon not only gets mauled by seed flare, but it also cant really hit you too hard.


    - cb tyranitar > machamp, move skarmory or heatran to lead slot
    - if you want to keep machamp, use focus sash as the item
    - scarf rotom-w > gengar
    - recover > ice beam on starmie
    - hp fire > hp ice on shaymin

    nice team, hope this helped.
  3. Warped Worlds

    Warped Worlds formerly Lizardman
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Aug 20, 2008
    I agree with BKC's rate. He hit most of the nails on the head.

    Although I personally used lead Machamp on defensive teams before. Mainly because it does a great job at snatching the momentum, which is even more important for this than other teams. It can lure pokemon like Gliscor (w Ice Punch) or Mixed Dragonite and kill them.

    Then they would find themself without a reliable way to defeat the stall team. Also, most people don't expect a stall team to lead with Machamp. Making the lure more effective.
  4. Psyshock


    Aug 7, 2012
    If you're looking for better spinblockers than Gengar, consider Rotom-W as BKC said. Or, maybe Dusknoir because he can stall better-This looks like a stall/defensive team. I'd say Machamp's a good surprise lead; he won't be screwed over by fast Taunt users. I've used lead Machamp myself and it is quite decent. But Machamp and Gengar are seemingly more for offense-based teams.
  5. Psyshock


    Aug 7, 2012
    Oh yeah, Starmie works on the team if you give it Recover. Maybe Rapid Spin? Tbh, I'm not one to use Rapid Spin on my teams though. Recover is a must; replace either T-Bolt or Ice Beam if you need Rapid Spin in the set. Starmie is actually fairly bulky, so it can go on the offensive and take/Recover hits.
  6. Captains


    Sep 22, 2011
    Foretress › Skamory

    -Access to T. Spikes.
    -Baits Flash Fire boosts.

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