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Songs About Jane- Peaked #27

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Electrolyte, Oct 14, 2012.

  1. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte On a short LoA
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,030
    I was so high I did not recognize
    The fire burning in her eyes
    The chaos that controlled my mind
    Whispered goodbye and she got on a plane
    Never to return again
    But always in my heart~

    SONGS ABOUT JANE- a BW2 RMT by Electrolyte

    [​IMG]
    Hey everyone! I'd consider you just about crazy if you don't know who I am (;D) I've recently been urged to write an RMT about my Dark Horse team, something that I've always wanted to do but never had the time- and because I've got a pretty much free weekend with me now, here it is.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This team was made about a month ago, (probably less) when NixHex and I came together for our monthly co-create and furnished this team which he didn't necessarily like but I loved. He introduced me to Cobalion- alexwolf's Cobalion- and I fell in love with it almost immediately. It had one of the fastest Taunts in OU, shutting down even Deoxys-D, which was reknown for its mighty speed. Cobalion was not only fast but also crazily bulky- with an awesome offensive and defensive typing to boot. With its wide movepool of both support and offense, access to Close Combat and Volt Switch, I knew I had to try it. And I don't regret that decision.

    For those who want me to prove my success (open)
    [​IMG]


    This team is modeled after my favorite album of all time- Songs About Jane, by Maroon 5. One of the songs that it's famous for, Sunday Morning, has the line 'Sunday Morning, Rain is Falling', and because this was a Rain team, I decided to connect the two concepts. Because my team also had a Latias, I felt that she could play the role of 'Jane'- the woman Adam Levine goes after but never gets. This represents the core between Cobalion and Latias- never are they seen at the same time, yet they cover their weaknesses so well and have such good synergy.

    Here's how the teambuilding went: (it's relatively short, so please read)

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    CobaLatias started our team. It was a decent offensive core, sporting two 'mixed' attackers (after all, Psyshock hits defense) with decent speed and great bulk. They also had near perfect synergy- Cobalion could tank hits on Latias's weaker physical side, as well as take the numerous U-Turns and Crunches with its x4 resistance to both. Latias, on the other hand, could take Fire, Fighting, and Ground attacks- Cobalion's only weakness- as well as set up on Bulky Water types, something Cobalion doesn't like facing.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    After CobaLatias, Landorus-T joined the group for his pivotal skills. He formed a nice Volt-Turn core with Cobalion, set rocks, and helped cover Cobalion's weakness to Fighting and Ground with Intimidate. Landorus's EdgeQuake coverage and great bulk allowed it to act as the tank of the team. It became my main answer to set up sweepers that boosted their attack stat, for its ability to tank an unboosted hit after Intimidate and deal a lot of damage back. It could take bug for Latias, ground for Cobalion, and Dragon for both.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now, we needed some more firepower. Cobalion and Landorus were outstanding attackers, but they weren't exactly powerful enough to sweep whole teams- as their attack stats were minimally invested. The team needed not only a strong physical attacker, but a strong set up sweeper as well. Breloom was chosen not only because it hit hard, but also for the priority, and the ability to shut down slower walls that were hard to break through. It fit in snugly. Its typing also allowed it to take some ground type moves when Latias / Landorus were gone.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now, defensively, my special side was lacking. Latias was the only member of the team who could take any moderately powerful special hits, howevere since it was a set up sweeper it did not function as well. Latias was great as a special sweeper- though I really wanted to try Sub CM Jirachi, so I put it in there. It was even better at setting up than Latias, and could act as a go-to special wall as well. Its ability to set up on a lot of the pokemon that wall it was also a great factor too. After seeing people say 'Shit, SubCM Jirachi' numerous times during matches, I knew it would work well.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Two SubCM'ers were a bit pointless- though I knew I preferred Jirachi over Latias. I also wanted a powerful, fast, special attacker, yet I didn't want to change Latias, because of its core with Cobalion, and also because Latios's defensive abilities were not as strong. To try to solve this problem, I changed Latias's set into Choice Specs- and it worked really well. Not only did it hit like a truck with Draco Meteor, but it was also fast, moderately bulky, and a surprise trick. Latias's ability to cripple set up sweepers and Blissey/Chansey with Trick was magnificent, and opened up many other opportunities for Jirachi. The ability to use a Psychic type move against fighting types was also fun.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Finally, Defensive Politoed was added. The rain let Jirachi use the more powerful and more haxful Thunder as its main weapon of attack. It also lessened Jirachi and Cobalion's fire weakness, added another weapon against sun, and acted as a bulky mixed wall that also spread status and locked set up sweepers into their set up moves. Ice Beam was a great way to deal with Salamence and Dragonite, and Scald burns eased up a lot of prediction. Politoed's typing also helped a bunch, tanking ice beams for Latias, Breloom, and Landorus.


    Descriptions

    [​IMG]
    I don't mind spending everyday
    out on your corner in the pouring rain
    look for the girl with the broken smile
    ask her if she wants to stay a while
    and she will be loved
    and she will be loved~
    Jane (Latias) (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Trick
    - Thunder / Hidden Power Fire
    - Psyshock

    The analysis describes her as an 'artemis'- well, in my team, she's a 'Jane'. As one of the primary leads of the team, as well as the whole puncher, wall breaker, support smasher, and revenge killers, she solidifies the idea of one heck of a 'badass girl'. With a huge base 110 special attack and speed, as well as a massive 130 base special bulk, she acts as the team's fast special tank, firing off Dracos to eliminate most opposing special sweepers. Her typing is vital for the team as well- and she has perfect synergy with Cobalion. She's my main answer to fighting types, because with Psyshock she can knock em out of the sky, and can Trick them her Specs. She is also my answer to Politoed and Ninetales- being able to 2HKO both with Draco Meteor, or just fuck them up with a simple Trick.

    Her specs set is my ace in the hole- and my trick up my sleeve, if you'll allow the pun. Not only does nobody expect it, but everyone underestimates it even after they know it's spec'd. Latias just isn't suitable for choiced items, is the false assumption of many players. Although her CM set is by far one of my most favorite Dragon sets in the whole pokemon universe, I think her Specs set has a ton of viability as well, because it can KO many of her most common counters. She can Trick incoming Blisseys her Specs, and then KO them with Psyshock. She can Trick Scizors her Specs, and even if she gets a Band back, she can still OHKO with HP Fire.

    Trick, however, is one of the main reasons why I use Latias in the first place. She is more of a suicide attacker in the beginning, and a revenger later should she survive, but one of her biggest assets is her ability to screw whole teams up by just shuffling their items. She can Trick incoming Genesects and steal their Scarves, then outspeeding and posing the threat of HP Fire, and then with good prediction, I can then Trick the double switched Blissey Genesect's Scarf- eliminating Genesect as a threat, and Blissey as a wall. It's just marvelous.

    Synergy:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]- Cobalion, Landorus
    [​IMG] - Cobalion, Breloom
    [​IMG] - Cobalion, Jirachi
    [​IMG]- Cobalion
    [​IMG]- Cobalion, Jirachi, Politoed

    [​IMG]

    And I've done you so wrong
    treated you bad
    strung you along
    oh, shame on myself
    I don't know how I got so tangled~

    Tangled (Cobalion) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 28 Atk / 228 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Volt Switch
    - Taunt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Yeah, Latias is the last pokemon to have a person's name, because that's kind of corny. Cobalion is modeled after the song Tangled, which talks about the author's regret of ever having a relationship with 'Jane'. They've treated each other bad, and now want to break up, but they can't. This represents Cobalion's surprise factor- due to his fighting typing, a lot of opponents bring in their physical walls- Skarmory, Gliscor, other flying types- just to have their walls fall to a surprise Hidden Power Ice or Volt Switch. It signifies my opponent's regret of sending their walls in- and wishing they hadn't got themselves so Tangled.

    As the mixed pivot and speedy defensive tank number one, Cobalion has a lot of Pressure on its shoulders. He's lead number two, and has quite a different purpose than Latias. First off, his superfast Taunt, speed tieing with Suicide Terrakion, and beating Deoxys-D, shuts down every opposing suicide lead (except the rare Terrakion and Aerodactyl) For them, Cobalion has different plans. He also sports a fast Volt Switch- and can pivot to a teammate that puts forth more momentum on my side. Volt Switch hits a lot of flying types like Skarmory really really hard- and when boosted by Cobalion's Expert Belt and backed up by its decent 90 SpA, it's doing ~60% to physically defensive versions, a guaranteed 2HKO. Cobalion is also a great lead against opposing weather inducers- as Close Combat can cleanly OHKO Tyranitar, as well as 2HKO a Ninetales switch in. Hidden Power Ice is Cobalion's Trick. It cleanly OHKO's all variants of Gliscor, Landorus, Landorus-T, Salamence, and Dragonite (only when Multiscale is broken) And lo and behold, those are some of the most popular pokemon that actually switch in. Go figure.

    Cobalion's excellent synergy with Latias is the backbone of the team- and is what opens of sweeps from Breloom and Jirachi later. Latias's weakness to Dark is abused by this core fully- as she can draw in Crunches for Cobalion to take and boost his attack. She can take Flamethrowers and Earth Powers. He can take U-Turns and Ice Punches. And, with Latias's Trick, some pokemon that can actually break through this core, such as Gengar or Starmie, become crippled, and then they too fall into the hole of death.

    Synergy:
    [​IMG]- Latias, Landorus
    [​IMG]- Latias, Politoed
    [​IMG] -Latias, Landorus, Breloom


    [​IMG]


    Immobilized by the thought of you
    paralyzed by the sight of you
    Hypnotized by the words you say
    Not true but I believe 'em anyway~

    Shiver (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge

    Landorus-T joins the team as a rampaging tailed beast, Intimidating opposing physical attackers with its mesmerizing glare. Its great typing, awesome stat distribution, and good coverage bought it its spot on the team. However, this isn't the standard Scarfed Landorus-T most people use- this is the bulky set, the one with even more physical bulk than Gliscor and the one that can rip off chunks of HP from flyers like Salamence / Dragonite and OHKO them on the spot. The song Shiver really shows the true monstrosity that Landorus is- talking about how it's glare 'immobilizes' and 'hynotizes' my opponents. Of course, it's obvious that that's exactly what Landorus-t does- Intimidating my opponents until their attack is lowered into obscurity.
    Landorus's job isn't only to KO things that need KO'ing. It's a physical tank just like Cobalion- but with a different purpose. He sets Rocks, and weakens physical attackers, and then pivots to Jirachi or Latias who have weaker defense and allow them to set up / sweep. He also handles Fighting/Ground types much better than Cobalion, resisting Fighting and immune to Ground. Landorus's slower U-Turn is really useful against VoltTurn teams- in fact, Landorus's slower U-Turn is MY ANSWER to VoltTurn teams, because of his slow speed and typing. His powerful EQ is the 2nd most damaging move in the team- second only to Latias's Choice Specs Draco. Stone Edge provides desperately needed coverage for pokemon like Tornadus / Volcorona, who would have no trouble sweeping if Landorus couldn't come in to revenge them.

    Landorus is lead number 3, and for good reason. It is perfect against Tyranitar leads- as it can weaken them, and threaten for EQ, and with the right prediction can get my rocks up early. Landorus is also my primary answer to Calm Minders- as most resist Breloom's and Cobalion's STABs. Because they are usually psychic type, I just switch to Landorus to U-Turn a huge piece off and then switch to either Breloom or Latias to finish them off.

    Synergy:
    [​IMG] - Cobalion, Jirachi, Politoed
    [​IMG]- Latias, Breloom, Politoed

    [​IMG]
    I'm lifting you up
    I'm letting you down
    I'm dancing 'till dawn
    I'm fooling around
    I'm not giving up
    I'm making your love
    this city's made us crazy and
    we must get out~
    Must Get Out (Breloom) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Bullet Seed
    - Spore
    - Swords Dance
    - Mach Punch

    Although those short stubs may not seem like much, Breloom sure packs a punch. With Technician boosting its Mach Punch to power rivaling Scizor, Breloom is a force to be reckoned with. When coupled with Spore to shut down walls and Swords Dance to boost to crazy levels, it's no wonder Breloom's sub-smashing swords-dancing sleep-inducing abilities find their place on this team. Breloom's wall breaking nature led to my connection of it with the song 'Must Get Out'- where the author is tired of living in the city, with so much pressure from his work, girlfriend, and other things in life. Breloom as well doesn't like taking pressure- he just wants to Spore, Swords Dance, and knock the walls free with his punches and bullets. I definitely would not like to mess with him.

    Breloom works hand in hand with Latias to make sure that nothing, absolutely nothing, remain 'unrevenged'. Mach Punch is really powerful even without LO boosts- and can deal at least 25% to most of the tier's primary sweepers. He's also the main physical sweeper of the team- as teams just collapse when he gets to +2 and I have rocks up. Mach Punch destroys Steel, Rock, and Dark types, while Bullet Seed nails Ground and Water types that are pretty problematic for Jirachi. Having a grass type on the team is awesome- as Breloom can act as an emergency 'wall' to force out a boosted sweeper or choiced opponent. He's got great synergy with Jirachi, his partner sweeper, as well.

    One of the best things about Breloom is his access to a speedy Spore. It's really helpful to pivot to Breloom in the face of a hazards setter and shut it down before it lays too much stuff down- as my team isn't exactly a fan of hazards. Spore also shuts walls down, giving Cobalion the time to 2HKO, or Latias the time to Trick and then KO. Spore is a great panic button, not only because it forces switches but also because I can play mindgames with it, threatening switch ins such as Latias, should they dare come in.

    Synergy:
    [​IMG]- Jirachi
    [​IMG]-Latias, Politoed
    [​IMG]-Jirachi, Politoed, Cobalion
    [​IMG]-Cobalion, Jirachi
    [​IMG]-Latias, Jirachi

    [​IMG]
    And Momma, I've been crying
    'Cuz things ain't how they've used to be
    She said, 'The battle's almost won
    and we're only several miles,
    from the sun'~
    The Sun (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Water Pulse
    - Thunder

    'Oh no! SubCM Rachi!'

    It's ironic that the front ranks of the team have all of the big monsters- Latias, firing off Dracos, Cobalion, pounding things to death, and Landorus-T, shaking holes in the ground- but the true powerhouses are in the back, looking tiny and innocent. From the Earth, the Sun may not seem very big, but underestimate it at your own risk. The immense ball of power can shoot off incinerating plasma rays and fire blasts (sorry, I'm not an astronomist or whatever) and destroy the earth on 2012, says the Mayans. Jirachi's reign of terror is just as powerful- and once it sets up, 'the battles almost won'. Underestimate it at your own peril.

    Everyone knows how powerful and dangerous this set is- but not many people actually know how to deal with it, or pack a counter to it. My opponents automatically dismiss Jirachi as an offensive threat- not only because this set is uncommon, but also because Quote: 'why THE FUCK do you run 2 Sub CM'ers?' Well, I don't. Jirachi's my only one- and the only one I need. After a Calm Mind, it has more bulk than its Specially Defensive counterpart- and has a lot more offense and speed as well. Once it gets safely behind a Substitute against your specially attacking wall / tank, it's pretty much gg, even if I haven't put up rain yet. Jirachi's typing and stats give it so many opportunities to set up- and with Landorus-T as its servant, preparing its way, Jirachi can sweep whole teams 6-0 for me. With max speed and max HP, it can outspeed Genesect, and tie with Salamence. It can make Substitutes not even Blissey/Chansey can break in one hit. It can tank many neutral hits with ease. Although it's small, it hits hard.

    Jirachi and Breloom together form my sweeping core- and 95% of matches I play I win by sweeping with one of them. Jirachi has great synergy with Breloom- walling special attackers that come in on Breloom, killing flying types with its powerful Thunder, and crippling opponents to ease both its and Breloom's setup. Thunder is one heck of a powerful move- and, it has a 60% chance of paralysis to boot, so that even if Jirachi can't pull of a full sweep it'll have at least crippled the opponent so severely that Breloom or Latias will have no trouble cleaning up. Water Pulse is pretty powerful in Rain as well- with the same base power as Breloom's Mach Punch in Rain. It can also confuse opponents- and though it's not as common, it's definitely helpful when setting up, because once the opponent is both Paralyzed and confused, it only has a 10th of a chance to actually attack, allowing Jirachi to go on for whole turns without having its Sub broken.

    Synergy:
    [​IMG]-Politoed, Latias
    [​IMG]- Latias, Landorus


    [​IMG]
    Sunday Morning, rain is falling
    steal some covers, shed some skin
    clouds are shrouding us in moments unforgettable
    you twist to fit the mold that I'm in~
    Sunday Morning (Politoed) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 4 SAtk / 40 SpDef
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Encore
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic

    I don't just use Politoed for Rain- but also for its prowess as a bulky water type and its ability to Encore and counter Sun. Back when I was all hipster and insisted on using Sun, I had a Banded Terrakion try to kill a Politoed (I believe that was in my warstory) and I gaped when CC only did 75%. Politoed is just so badass that it shrugs off physical and special hits like nothing. Then, it replies with a burning Scald, slowly eating health away and decreasing damage output as well. It's really obvious why I chose to name Politoed the way it is- it brings Rain, what else. I could say that 'the clouds' represent the Thunder that Jirachi brings but I'm not going to pretend that I have any literary skills at all.

    Politoed is the primary wall of the team, and though I play so recklessly with it that some people would shout 'animal abuse', it does just fine. Spreading Toxic is something I love about it- as it wears down walls such as Gastrodon or Slowbro that give my team a few problems. Encore is another great tool- locking set up sweepers into their set up moves, and just generally preventing me from getting all tread on by pokemon like Volcorona. Scald is just in general a good STAB move, plus it burns, so why not, eh? Ice Beam helps me deal with Dragonites and Salamences that are stupid enough to set up in my face, and it hits Tornadus pretty hard.

    Synergy:
    [​IMG] -Latias, Landorus, Breloom
    [​IMG]-Latias, Cobalion, Breloom, Jirachi


    A LOOK ON STRATEGY
    Teams need solid cores, don't they? Here's a look into some of the cores present in my team.

    [​IMG][​IMG]- COBALATIAS
    The main core of the team. Cobalion takes Bug, Dark, Ghost, Ice, and Dragon, while Latias takes Ground, Fire, and Fighting. They are both fast, offensive, and are my primary leads. Cobalion smashes pursuiters and walls Scizor like crazy, while Latias coolly handles Gengar/Starmie by OHKO'ing both with a STAB move.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]- BRELANDOLION
    The physically attacking core. Cobalion breaks down Gliscor and Skarmory, two pokemon that Breloom and Landorus hate, and Landorus and Cobalion pivot to open up sweeps for Breloom. Loom, in turn, kills off Gastrodon, a major problem for Cobalion, and Landorus takes down fire types with EQ/Stone Edge.
    [​IMG][​IMG]-BRELACHI
    The sweeping core. Jirachi's main walls, Blissey/Chansey and Gastrodon, are both completely obliterated by Breloom, while Breloom's main walls, Gliscor, Lati@s, Skarmory, and Tornadus, are all set up on by Jirachi and then KO'd by a respective move. Breloom takes Ground for Jirachi, and Jirachi takes flying and psychic.
    [​IMG][​IMG]-LANDOED
    The physically defensive core. Politoed can burn, while Landorus switches in and out to lower attack stats. With the combination of SR and Toxic/Burns, this can take a stallish nature as well. Landorus can tank electric, and Politoed water/ice.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]-Gah, can't think up of something catchy
    The specially defensive and offensive core. Latias and Jirachi pound things to death with Thunders provided by Politoed's rain. Politoed also Toxics the blobs and Gastrodon, to major enemies of the core. Latias's Psyshock helps eliminate opposing CM'ers, and her Trick gives Jirachi the opportunity to switch in and set up. Politoed also lures in Ferrothorn, a pokemon Jirachi loves to wall. Latias's Draco Meteor 2HKO's Ninetales, who could screw up Politoed's rain.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Thanks for reading! Be sure to leave a comment/rate, and if you don't have any suggestions, be sure to luvdisc!

    SHOUTOUTS
    alexwolf- the guy who started it all. You're awesome not only at battling but also as a friend. thanks for the battle and advice!

    Miles Tails- you're one of the best teambuilders I've ever met- and it was a pleasure talking with you and seeing what you thought about my team. Thanks for everything!

    Ambicrow(3)- I battled a lot both with you and against you- and you're a lot better than you give yourself credit for! Thanks for helping me improve my team and carry the strategy further!

    You guys- for reading, liking, and commenting! Thanks for your time!

    Importable (open)

    Jane (Latias) (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Trick
    - Thunder
    - Psyshock

    Tangled (Cobalion) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 20 Atk / 236 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Volt Switch
    - Taunt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Shiver (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge

    Must Get Out (Breloom) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Bullet Seed
    - Spore
    - Swords Dance
    - Mach Punch

    The Sun (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Water Pulse
    - Thunder

    Sunday Morning (Politoed) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Encore
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
  2. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte On a short LoA
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,030
    Standard OU Offensive Threats

    Big threats in bold and underlined, annoyances in bold
    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Choice Band - Run over by Cobalion and Landorus-T, and Breloom
    • Choice Scarf - Run over by Landorus-T and Loom
    • Dragon Dance - Run over by Cobalion and Landorus-T and Breloom
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Latias handles it well, but annoying as a lead
    • Support - Latias can trick it. Jirachi can set up on it. Breloom, as long is it doesn't get burned
    [​IMG] Scizor:
    • Choice Band - Cobalion and Landorus-T run over this one. If it's locked into bullet punch Politoed can scald burn
    • Swords Dance - Swept me once or twice but as long as it doesn't get higher than +2 I'm good with Landorus/Cobalion
    • Bulky Swords Dance - Same as above, can be revenged by Loom
    [​IMG] Dragonite:
    • Choice Band - Cobalion, Landorus-T, Latias if Multiscale is broken
    • Dragon Dance - Cobalion, Landorus-T, Politoed
    • Mixed - Cobalion, Latias, Landorus-T
    • Parashuffler - Politoed, Landorus-T
    • Rain Abuse - Latias, Cobalion, Landorus-T
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - Latias, Politoed
    • 3 Attacks - Jirachi can set up, Latias, Breloom
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Standard - Latias can trick, Landorus can EQ, Cobalion can CC, Breloom can Mach Punch
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Substitute + Calm Mind / Wish + Calm Mind - Landorus-T. A bit rarer.
    • Expert Belt - Latias, Landorus-T
    • Choice Scarf - Landorus-T, Politoed
    [​IMG] Latios:
    • Life Orb / Expert Belt - Jirachi- once it's gone, Latias can riskily revenge. Landorus's U-Turn does a lot
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Jirachi, same as above
    • Calm Mind - Jirachi, same as above
    [​IMG] Reuniclus:
    • Calm Mind - Landorus-T, Breloom. Annoying if it gets too many boosts.
    • Offensive Trick Room - I'm going to have to start sacking until TR is over. Landorus-T can take a hit, but U-Turn doesn't even 2HKO
    [​IMG] Haxorus:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Landorus-T, Jirachi, Cobalion, Latias vs Band
    • Dragon Dance - Landorus-T, Cobalion
    • Double Dance - Landorus-T
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Nasty Plot - Latias
    • Choice Specs - Latias, Politoed
    • Special Attacker - Latias, Politoed
    [​IMG] Conkeldurr:
    • Bulk Up - Landorus-T, annoying if it gets too many boosts because Bulk Up lessens Psyshock damage
    • Flame Orb + 3 Attacks - Landorus-T
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Nasty Plot Sweeper - Latias, JIrachi
    • Tinkerbell - Latias, Cobalion can Taunt
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf - Latias. U-Turn does a lot, but must come in on a resisted move
    [​IMG] Terrakion:
    • Double Dance - Landorus
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Landorus
    • Substitute + Swords Dance - Landorus
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • Offensive / Bulky Dragon Dance - Cobalion's Volt Switch is an OHKO after rocks
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf - same as above, though these are rare
    [​IMG] Gengar:
    • Substitute + Disable / Pain Split - annoying. Latias must be full health. A crit / SpDef on Jirachi also spells the end.
    [​IMG] Starmie:
    • Life Orb - Latias can take a hit and OHKO back
    • Rapid Spin - Same as above
    • Choice Specs - never seen it, but I guess latias, because it avoids trick
    [​IMG] Landorus:
    • Rock Polish / Swords Dance - annoying, especially LO+Sheer Force. Latias, but only if at full health
    • Choice Scarf - Landorus-T, politoed
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - Politoed, Landorus-T
    [​IMG] Infernape:
    • Mixed Attacker - Landorus, Politoed
    • Nasty Plot / Swords Dance Booster - never seen it, saa
    • Choice Band - saa
    [​IMG] Volcarona:
    • Offensive Quiver Dance - Politoed, Landorus
    • Bulky Quiver Dance - SAA
    • Chesto Rest - SAA
    • Substitute - SAA
    [​IMG] Magnezone:
    • Substitute - Cobalion, Lando, Breloom
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Specs - SAA
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Calm Mind - Annoying. Landorus
    • Bulky Sun Attacker / Passer - Annoying. Landorus
    [​IMG] Salamence:
    • Dragon Dance - Landorus, Politoed
    • Mixed - Latias, Politoed, Landorus
    • Defensive - SAA
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Landorus
    [​IMG] Hydreigon:
    • Offensive - Latias, Jirachi, Politoed
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf - SAA
    • Substitute - SAA
    [​IMG] Breloom:
    • Bulk Up - Latias, Landorus, Jirachi
    • Sub Seed - Breloom, Landorus, Jirachi
    • Sub Punch - Latias, Landorus, Breloom
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Calm Mind - Landorus; defensive versions are hard to take down
    • Offensive Tank - Landorus
    • Choice Specs - Jirachi
    [​IMG] Toxicroak:
    • Swords Dance - Landorus, Cobalion
    • Bulk Up - annoying with Sucker Punch, Latias can Trick
    [​IMG] Lucario:
    • Swords Dance - Politoed, Lando, Cobalion
    • Nasty Plot - Latias, Lando
    [​IMG] Virizion:
    • Calm Mind - Latias
    • Swords Dance - SAA
    • Dual Screens - Cobalion Taunts, Latias
    [​IMG] Scrafty:
    • Dragon Dance - Landorus, Politoed
    • Bulk Up - Politoed, annoying if it gets too many boosts, then I have to sack Latias or Trick it
    [​IMG] Venusaur:
    • Special Growth - Latias
    • Mixed Growth - SAA
    • SubSeed - SAA
    [​IMG] Metagross:
    • Stealth Rock - Breloom, Politoed, Cobalion taunts
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Cobalion, Politoed, Landorus
    • Agility - Landorus, Politoed
    [​IMG] Mienshao:
    • All-Out Attacker - Landorus
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Landorus
    [​IMG] Cloyster:
    • Shell Smash - Breloom, Politoed. Get rocks up early.
    • Utility - SAA
    [​IMG] Mamoswine:
    • Physical Attacker - Politoed, annoying because EQ is a 2HKO
    • Focus Sash + Endeavor - SAA
    [​IMG] Darmanitan:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Politoed, Landorus
    [​IMG] Tornadus:
    • Rain Abuser - Jirachi
    • Choice Specs - SAA
    [​IMG] Abomasnow:
    • Choice Scarf - Cobalion and Breloom
    • SubSeed - SAA
    • Mixed Attacker - Latias
    [​IMG] Alakazam:
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - Jirachi
    • Offensive Calm Mind - Jirachi, Politoed can lock
    • Focus Sash - Jirachi
    [​IMG] Azelf:
    • Dual Screens - Latias can Trick. Lando U-Turn.
    • Lead - SAA
    • Nasty Plot - SAA, but no Lando, Rachi instead
    • Choice Band - Lando, Politoed
    [​IMG] Azumarill:
    • Choice Band - Politoed
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    • Fast Spiker - Cobalion taunts, Latias Tricks
    [​IMG] Dugtrio:
    • Focus Sash - Lando
    • Choice Band - SAA
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Agility - Who the heck uses this
    • Choice Specs - SAA
    [​IMG] Gorebyss:
    • SmashPass - SAA
    • Shell Smash Sweeper - SAA
    [​IMG] Kingdra:
    • Dragon Dance - Cobalion
    • Rain Dance - Politoed
    • Choice Specs - Jirachi
    [​IMG] Kyurem:
    • Choice - Politoed, Jirachi, prediction
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - SAA
    [​IMG] Victini:
    • Choice Band / Scarf - Final Gambit is annoying. Politoed, Landorus
    • Physical Attacker - SAA
    [​IMG] Stoutland:
    • Choice Band - Lando
    [​IMG] Smeargle:
    • Baton Pass - Cobalion Taunts
    [​IMG] Sharpedo:
    • Speed Boost - Cobalion, Lando, Politoed
    [​IMG] Rotom-C:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Specs - nobody uses this
    • Support - SAA

    Standard OU Defensive Threats

    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Specially Defensive - Cobalion, Landorus
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Standard - Jirachi, Latias
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn:
    • Standard - Jirachi, Cobalion Taunts, Breloom Spores
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Defensive - Jirachi, Latias, Breloom
    [​IMG] Gliscor:
    • Swords Dance - Landorus, Cobalion, Latias
    • Substitute + Protect - SAA
    • AcroBat - SAA
    • Defensive - SAA
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Specially Defensive - Landorus, Breloom can Spore
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Specially Defensive - Landorus, Politoed, Breloom Spores
    [​IMG] Skarmory:
    • Physically Defensive Spiker - Cobalion, Latias, Jirachi
    • Specially Defensive Spiker - SAA
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Specially Defensive - Latias
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Physically Defensive - Latias, Landorus
    [​IMG] Forretress:
    • Physically Defensive Spiker - Cobalion, Breloom
    • Specially Defensive Spiker - SAA
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • RestTalk - Jirachi, Latias, Cobalion, Lando
    [​IMG] Jellicent:
    • Utility Counter - Latias, Cobalion, Breloom, Politoed's Toxic, Jirachi set up
    [​IMG] Tentacruel:
    • Toxic Spikes - Landorus, Latias, Jirachi set up
    [​IMG] Gastrodon:
    • Tank - Breloom, Latias, Politoed Toxic
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Dual Screens - Latias Trick. Annoying if it can get its screens up.
    • Baton Pass - Latias, Jirachi set up
    [​IMG] Blissey:
    • Support - Jirachi set up, Latias Trick, Cobalion and Breloom, Landorus, Politoed Toxic
    [​IMG] Vaporeon:
    • Wish Support - SAA, minus Lando
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Support - Latias, Jirachi set up
    [​IMG] Bronzong:
    • Tank - annoying. Breloom can put it to sleep.
    • Dual Screens - SAA
    [​IMG] Swampert:
    • Defensive - Breloom, Latias
    [​IMG] Mew:
    • Stallbreaker - Cobalion taunt, Latias Trick
    [​IMG] Slowbro:
    • Tank - Cobalion, Latias, Jirachi set up, Breloom
    [​IMG] Quagsire:
    • Curse - Breloom, Politoed Toxic
    • Specially Defensive - SAA
    • Physically Defensive - SAA
    [​IMG] Cresselia:
    • Support - Annoying if I accidentally paralyze it. Latias can Trick, Politoed Toxic, Breloom Spore
    • Dual Screens - SAA
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    • Bulky Spiker -Cobalion, Politoed Toxic
    • Toxic Staller -Cobalion, Polioed Toxic
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Specially Defensive - Latias, Jirachi set up, Breloom spore, Lando EQ
    [​IMG] Hippowdon:
    • Physical Tank - pretty damn hard to kill. 3HkO'ed by Cobal, Latias Trick, Politoed Toxic, Breloom spore
    [​IMG] Xatu:
    • Standard - Latias, Jirachi can set up. Lando's SE
    • Dual Screens - annoying, but not enough for Bold. SAA
    [​IMG] Wobbuffet:
    • Bulky - Annoying when it comes in at the right time. Politoed Toxic, Lando U-Turn
    [​IMG] Whimsicott:
    • Prankster - Politoed Toxic, Latias Tricks or OHKO's with DMeteor
    [​IMG] Tangrowth:
    • Physically Defensive - nobody uses this
    [​IMG] Sableye:
    • Prankster - annoying. Latias can Trick.
    [​IMG] Porygon2:
    • Defensive - Latias Tricks, Breloom puts it to sleep. Jirachi can set up.
    [​IMG] Chansey:
    • Support - What's this doing all the way down here Latias Tricks, Cobalion Taunts, Jirachi can set up and 3HKO at +6 lol
  3. wrestlethebest

    wrestlethebest

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    20
    Very, very nice team Electrolyte. It desereves a rate, even if by a poor rater like me! The one thing I would suggest is running this Breloom spread, it allows you to take a CC/SE and Swords dance in that turn which can lead to sweeps late game. It might seem kinda useless to not KO first turn with Mach Punch but being able to have that +2 on whatever switches in kind of nice in my opinion.

    Breloom (F) @ Fight Gem
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 68 HP / 224 Atk / 216 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Seed
    - Mach Punch
    - Spore
  4. Leader Fox

    Leader Fox

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Messages:
    38
    for some reason i don't see anything wrong with your team, except change your latias to expert belt orb or to leftovers, as latias don't like getting walled by ferrothorns or other special walls. Love how My alt Miss Elesea Menaj is So Big :) (my alt)
  5. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Spooky Dawg
    is an Artist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    993
    i would say since your going all out offensive with latias, might as well go with latios since it has more power.
  6. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    789
    Hey man, really awesome team. I love alexwolf's Cobalion too, and you put it to great use.

    You could have some problems with Specially Bulky Celebi, since you can't take down it at all bar U-Turn. Jirachi is walled hard, and can be forced out with Perish Song, Latias can only Trick, Cobalion can't do anything apart from Taunting, Breloom and Politoed can status it / Encore, but thanks to Natural Cure that's hardly a problem. Cobalion and Lando can of course mantain momentum on it by VoltTurning, but the thing still handles almost everything in your team so I think it's at least worth a mention. Not that I have some idea to fix that, since everything I can think opens some other, much worse, weakness in your team.

    Overall, great work and good luck for your laddering!
  7. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    Celebi does look like an issue, same with things which have a similar typing like CM Roar Latias (all you can really do is try to hax it with Jirachi or hit it with Poli's Toxic / Encore). The other problem I can see is entry hazards; against Deoxys-D in particular I really don't understand how you can win against a competent player. You can lead with Coba for the Taunt, but with so many bulky members Deo will at some point be able to set up.

    Off the top of my head...SpDef Forretress could definitely fit over Cobalion, although it does remove a lot of the creativity. It spins, obviously, and the hazards it provides should make up for the loss of Coba's offensive presence. Also sets up on Celebi and Latias. I'd personally go for Flash Cannon in place of Water Pulse on Rachi, again helping handle Latias and hitting Tyranitar, hopefully luring it so it isn't such a roadblock to your own Latias.

    Hope that helps, it's a really nice team and beautifully presented:)
  8. GC7

    GC7

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Pretty good team over all, I'd say Celebi might be a huge pain in the butt for your team though unless you could predict the switch into cobalion and hp ice it, other wise it'll be a big problem especially in the sun if it has hp fire
  9. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Electrolyte, this was a fun read! I really appreciate how you were able to fit Cobalion into this team, and it's such a cool set, too :D

    As you mentioned Latias and RP Landorus are some notable threats to this team. Although you haven't listed it as such, Volcarona on a Sun team can relatively easily sweep this team, given the opportunity by Latias. Here are some quick fixes to these problems:

    Divert 40 Defense EVs into Politoed's Special Defense. You use Politoed for mixed-walling, so the extra 40 SpD EVs would help tank hits from the likes of RP Landorus, Gengar, or Volcarona. You still reach the jump point in Defense (264).

    Try out Water Gem Rain Dance Latios over Specs Latias. This is a set that shrang has discovered, and I believe it would benefit this team by aiding you in the weather war. After Rain Dance + Water Gem, Latios's Surf virtually OHKOs all but the most specially defensive Tyranitar. It will certainly throw off Sun teams, too!

    [​IMG] Latios @ Water Gem | Levitate
    Timid | 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~ Draco Meteor
    ~ Rain Dance
    ~ Surf
    ~ Psyshock


    You can use Life Orb if you want, but WGem is recommended to OHKO bulkier TTars with SR

    Finally, I suggest replacing Breloom for Mamoswine. Mamoswine gives you a quick and dirty answer to all the annoying Celebi and Latias that troubles this team with its powerful STAB Ice offense. Even more, it makes RP Landorus a non-issue as you can OHKO it any time. Losing Breloom means you miss out on Mach Punch, but most targets for Mach Punch is covered well by this team (ie Landorus-T checks Terrakion). You also lose out on Spore, so if you really want that sleep support, you may want to try Hypnosis on Politoed over Toxic.

    [​IMG] Mamoswine @ Life Orb | Thick Fat
    Jolly | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Shard
    ~ Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear
    ~ Superpower


    Thanks for sharing this creative team, and have fun :)
  10. asterat

    asterat

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    965
    well you can't really rely on 4 HP choice latias to take on all sun teams and sweepers. I would make landorus sheer force or terrakion and give rocks to jirahchi except make it bronzong because of garchomp and mamoswine.
  11. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,818
    I suggest you replace SD on Breloom for Low Sweep. It gives you a great answer to faster threats and it can 2hko Tornadus-T so that Jirachi doesn't have to worry about taking hits from it. SD is a great move but your other sweepers require weakened pokemon and a bit of set up. with SD you outright take out pokemon but stuff like Tornadus, Salamence, Dragonite, Latis, Skarmory, bronzong can just come in and not be scared of the + 2 Mach punch. Low Sweep forces them to sac it (unless they're scarfed) or switch out to another pokemon to take damage.

    Low Sweep also helps you take on slower and bulkier pokemon as well like Conkelderr, Scizor, and Scrafty.
  12. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte On a short LoA
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

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    A semi-bump where I answer the awesome replies to my awesome team:

    Thanks for the rate! It was definitely more helpful than you give yourself credit for. Breloom right now functions more as a sweeper than a revenge killer- and though it does the latter well, I really need it to be able to take a few hits and recover off the damage without having to move a muscle. Because it's one of my main counters to Sand, taking away its Sand-counter will make it a lot frailer, and unable to do its job successfully. Thanks for the idea though!

    We had a great battle, I'm not sure if you remembered :) A lot of Latias's viability on this team is her ability to Trick AND hit hard, which is why I chose Specs. LO would drain her health too quickly, give away her offensive 'surprise', and make her Tricks not as effective. EBelt wouldn't drain her health or give away her surprise, however it is not powerful enough, nor does it have nearly as much effect against pokemon like Ferrothorn/Blissey. I also have HP Fire most of the time on Latias, so pokemon like Scizor/Ferrothorn are less of a problem.

    As I said above, Latias's surprise and better bulk solidifies her spot on the team. Since so many people are suggesting it, however, I will try out Latios.

    Awesome rate Ganj! You're right- Celebi is really a bitch- and surprisingly, Landorus can't even OHKO the defensive versions with U-Turn. Defensive Celebi's with Perish Song are of no annoyance to me at all, because they can easily be set up on with Jirachi. Offensive versions can be dealt with Jirachi as well, however I must make sure it doesn't get a boost first. Landorus's U-TUrn can also deal a lot of damage. I usually have to play safely against it, but it's not as annoying as some other pokemon. Thanks for the rate!

    Thanks for the complement! I've never thought about Forretress, because Cobalion's role is so important for the team. It would help me with my hazards problem, and stack even more to help Breloom and Jirachi sweep. I think it's definitely worth trying!
    You mentioned Deoxys-D, and I would like to say that Cobalion is exactly the way I deal with that thing. I just Taunt it, Volt Switch, and then grab early momentum. Cobalion is what I lead with 75% of the time, even if Deoxys-D isn't on my opponents team, so it is rarely a problem. I fear that if I lose Cobalion Deoxys-D and other set up sweepers like Dragonite would become much more problematic. What do you think?

    Variants with HP Fire are dealt with by Landorus, as those are usually the offensive versions. Latias can also pummel the offensive versions with her own HP Fire or Draco Meteor. I've never really had a problem with offensive Celebi; it's defensive Celebi that's more problematic. Thanks anyway!

    Thanks for the rate Pocket, it was really helpful, and I"m glad you enjoyed my RMT!
    I've already tested and changed the evs- they work well. Thanks!
    On the subject of Latios, I have never seen that set before- and am very eager to try it. A Latios that can OHKO Tyranitar? Yes please. Though, no HP Fire and another weakness to Ferrothorn will be something I'll have to overcome.
    As for losing Breloom, I am really really reluctant to do that. I originally thought Breloom could be fixed because it was really just slapped onto the team, but when I lost it the team suffered a lot. The only thing I don't like about Mamoswine is the fact that it can't set up or shut down slower walls- which is a lot of what Breloom's slot is used for. I could use Politoed for shutting down walls like you said, but missing a Hypnosis twice against a Ferrothorn will be really annoying later in the match, especially when the Spikes are doing upwards to 20% every time I switch. I will try this, but most likely I don't think it'll work out.
    Awesome rate! It's always nice to hear from you, Pocket! Thanks!

    Garchomp really isn't a problem at all, Latias outspeeds it and can OHKO, Cobalion outspeeds it and can OHKO, Landorus-T can Intimidate it, and Breloom can revenge at around 30%. Mamoswine can be problematic at times, but can be handled by Cobalion/Politoed- and choiced ones can be handled by scouting its moveset and acting accordingly. It may not seem like it, but Latias has a lot of special bulk even when uninvested- certainly enough to wall Politoeds and Ninetales even in their own weather. It can even survive Tyranitar's Pursuit, as long as it doesn't switch out.

    Thanks for the rate! As I stated above, Breloom's ability to set up makes him important for my team. Low Sweep sounds useful, but SD is a lot more beneficial, as it turns Breloom into a sweeper, instead of a predicting machine. Still, I'll test it out. Thanks!

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