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Soul Stealer Of The Shadows

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by fire r a g e, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    115
    Epilogue For Battle!

    Hello all. Azeem40 here again with yet another RMT. This team is starred around ScarfGar, an uncommon hidden threat. He is very well known for sneaking up behind your shadow and stealing your life, but in the world of Pokemon, this doesn't always fly, so he resorts to using his intimidating exterior to frighten his foes to death. Hopefully, my team will bring out the most in him, but if it doesn't, you all can help me out. Is that a deal?

    Anyway, here's how I planned the team...

    Team Building
    Show Hide

    So, as stated in the intro, I have decided to star this team around ScarfGar, an underrated threat!

    [​IMG]

    Next, I wanted a wall breaker that can take care of some of Gengar's counters and defeat them. These include the Pink Blobs, Latios, Scizor, and Psychic types, so in came Hydreigon, another underrated terror of doomsday.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    As suggested by
    youngjake93 and seconded by MCBarrett, I included Ferrothorn to take care of those dragons that Hydreigon and Gengar together cannot hurt much, such as Salamence, Garchomp, and Dragonite. As you can see, most of them are set up sweepers. Simply, in came Ferrothorn with his spikiness.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now that I have added hazards to their side of the field (hopefully), it is time to prevent them from doing the same to my side of the field. There is only one Pokemon that would help with the offensive presssure of my team while spinning away hazards and that is Starmie. He also has good synergy with Hydreigon and Gengar.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Coincidentally, I have 2/3 of a FWG core on my team. Just as a test, I decided to test out Infernape on my team to see how he fares. If my assurance for Scizor and Tyranitar and the pink blobs, aka Hydreigon, are gone, it is gg for me as Scizor KOes the rest of my team, so he is there as a secondary answer.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    4 out of my five Pokemon would really appreciate some Wish support to make their jobs easier, so I opted for some Wish support and another dragon resist. Jirachi seems like a good fit, so I went, what the heck, and included her.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Here is the team: Soul Stealer of the Shadows.


    My Partayy!

    [​IMG]
    FaceStealer the Gengar @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
    Nature: Timid
    Moves:
    Focus Blast
    Destiny Bond
    Hidden Power Ice
    Shadow Ball

    Scarfgar is a very surprising threat that can catch many people off guard. With 110 Base Speed, you'd think it is blazing fast, but Scarf allows it to be even more breakneck in Speed. It is faster than Scarfkion and Scarfdeo and has a way of dealing with them both in Thunderbolt and Focus Blast (Scarfdeo and Scarfkion, respectively). Destiny Bond is the main attraction of the set. It allows it to "revenge" kill (true revenge killing IMO, :b) Tyranitar and Scizor, two of its top counters. It also helps me win the weather war against Politoed and Ninetales AND Tyranitar, although Hydreigon, his teammate who forms a great attacking duo with, can OHKO with Superpower (it helps when Hydreigon isn't around, as I will save Gengar for near the end to set up my win condition). Shadow Ball has STAB and outspeed and kills all Psychic types that dare come in on it. I put 4 SpD EVs to lessen SR damage. One of the greatest things about Gengar is its immunity to ExtremeSpeed, and since it outspeeds even +2 Dragonite, I'll always be able to revenge kill it with HP Ice without any problems. Similarly, Rock Polish Landorus almost never has Psychic, and since its HP Ice never kills Gengar, I have a nice answer to that as well. I don't I'll have a problem with Skarmory, Gyarados, or bulky waters, so I doubt I'll miss Thunderbolt. This was suggested by Gimmick. Scarf is the item of choice so I can outspeed Pokemon that think I am maxed at 350 Speed (like Tornadus).

    [​IMG]
    Dendrite the Hydreigon @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
    Nature: Mild
    Moves:
    Draco Meteor
    Superpower
    Fire Blast
    Substitute

    Meet the triple headed mite of doomsday, (meaning, he preys on walls such as Heatran, Skarmory, Forretress, and the Pink Blobs) Hydreigon. This Pokemon is known for its vicious nature, but alas, it is one of the most underrated threats due to its middling Speed stat. Nevertheless, with Paralysis support, it can be a real menace. Draco Meteor is the STAB of choice, 2HKOing almost everything in the metagame. Pokemon not totally mowed by this gargantuan power move are eliminated with its wide coverage moves. Blissey can survive Draco Meteor and so can Chansey and many Steel types. This is where Superpower comes in. It KOes those Steel types and the aforementioned pink blobs (Chansey needs prior damage however and Heatran needs EQ). Substitute allows me to take leech seeds all day and OHKO Ferrothorn with Fire Blast (2HKO in Rain), though, so I am torn between the two. Fire Blast scorches Scizor and Forretress as well. Substitute really helps from being stalled out, since Gengar isnt with its Substitute.

    [​IMG]
    Spiks the Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP/88 Def/168 SpD
    Nature: Impish
    Moves:
    Spikes
    Leech Seed
    Gyro Ball
    Power Whip

    Since I have Hydreigon to break down the Dragons, I don't see a need to use Gyro Ball, as it is counterproductive with T Wave anyway. EVs are standard, so max HP gives it greater overall bulk, 88 Def EVs allows it to always survive two CB Haxorus +1 Earthquakes. Leech Seed is for recovery and Power Whip is to check bulky waters. Gyro Ball allows me to check Dragons and Scarf users, and also Gengar. Spikes is just icing on the cake. It gives me more residual damage on a foe that can't touch me.

    [​IMG]
    Sleipnir the Keldeo @ Expert Belt
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Moves:
    Hydro Pump
    Secret Sword
    Icy Wind
    Rain Dance

    Thanks to Shurt, meet the Doomsday Horse, Sleipnir the Keldeo. While Expert Belt doesn't make it the wallbreaker the Specs version is, the revenge killer the Scarf version is, or the late-game sweeper the CM version is, he is best at luring and destroying common switchins such as Landorus, Terrakion, Venusaur, Celebi and many more. Hydro Pump is the STAB of choice and is incredibly powerful in the rain. Secret Sword allows it to OHKO Terrakion, who isn't OHKOed in Sand. Rain Dance allows me to win the weather war after the foe's weather inducer has been taken out by ScarfGar. Icy Wind catches the LaTwins off guard, reducing their speed so on the switch-in Latios is 2HKOedand and Latias is 3HKOed. Secret Sword does 71% min to standard Ferrothorn!



    [​IMG]
    RotatingStar the Starmie @ Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
    Moves:
    Surf
    Ice Beam
    T-Bolt
    Rapid Spin

    He's the spinner of my team. I prefer Surf > Hydro Pump due to the accuracy and I'd rather not miss at a crucial time. Ice Beam maims dragon types such at Latios and Latias, Salamence, DNite (after Multiscale), etc. I changed to Psyshock from Thunderbolt. It has pretty decent neutral coverage and always OHKOs Terrakion in Sand, Keldeo, Breloom, Conkeldurr after Spikes, and others. I don't really see the need for Thunderbolt since Ferrothorn loves going face-to-face with bulky waters to set up Spikes and get some more HP with Leech Seed. This was also suggested by Gimmick. Rapid Spin clears the field of hazards (obviously). I chose to put 4 SpD for LO recoil at a min.



    [​IMG]
    Estrella theJirachi @ Leftovers
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
    Moves:
    Thunder Wave
    Iron Head
    Wish
    Stealth Rock

    Meet the special wall of my team, FlinchRachi, who is arguably the cutest Pokemon out there. Just look at its face! XD
    Anyway, he is here for a good reason, and that is almost guaranteed paralysis (Body Slam's 60% isn't good enough for me). The main reason T-Wave is here is because Hydreigon's speed stat is at the border of uselessness, as almost every prominent threat, like Garchomp, Salamence, Thundurus-T, etc, sit at the 100+ speed tier. T Wave makes him faster than the entire unboosted tier. Iron Head + T Wave forms the infamous ParaFlinch combo, which causes many annoyances and RQs. Wish helps give my sweepers and walls another chance at doing their job, which is invaluable. Stealth Rock is given for entry hazards damage.

    In Reserve

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Ape the Infernape @ Life Orb
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
    Nature: Naive
    Moves:
    Fire Blast
    Close Combat
    Grass Knot
    Nasty Plot


    Meet the ape of the OU Jungle, Infernape. An Infernape's fighting spirit is determined by the size of the flame on its head. Just a fun fact. Anyway, Nasty Plot is the most important move of the set. It boosts his SpA to a staggering 614, meaning his Fire Blast will HURT ALOT. To show just how powerful it is, Gyarados, who is otherwise known for being a stop to Infernape, is 2HKOed by Fire Blast after SR damage! Grass Knot also OHKOes after SR damage. Close Combat massacres Tyranitar, hitting 146.78% - 173.76% (593 - 702) to 252 HP/252 Def +Def Tyranitar! Don't get me started about Ferrothorn, who is OHKOed even in the rain, Scizor, Forretress, etc... Politoed is 2HKOed by Grass Knot. I will test out Stone Edge/Close Combat/Fire Blast/HP Ice out. Stone Edge OHKOes Gyarados after SR damage (Moxie varients), HP Ice frosts Dragons and Ground types, and Fire Blast 2HKOes aforementioned Steel types in the rain.


    Conclusion

    Well folks, that's my team. Honestly, Jirachi is the most expendable member of my team, so any suggestions on a weather changer (NOT inducer) that learns Wish is appreciated. Thanks for looking!

    Changes made!
  2. MCBarrett

    MCBarrett i love it when you call me big hoppa

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    551
    Hey fire r a g e, I think this team looks pretty solid now since you took your time making it which is great. Definitely looks like you're getting the hang of teambuilding! Anyways on to the rate...

    You have nice team synergy but as usual with a weatherless, offensive team you are going to face major problems when going up against powerful sweepers in their respective domains. Rain doesn't hurt you as much since you have specially defensive jirachi and sunny day on it but sunny day just leaves yourself hopeless against powerful sun sweepers such as venusaur. For reference, after one growth boost, venusaur outspeeds and ohko's every member of your team under the sun after SR damage. Therefore i would change your weather to hail to make sure your opponents have a tougher time utilizing their weather threats. starmie does have access to hail so you could remove one of your attacking moves in favor of hail and change ice beam to blizzard. Additionally, although your team all loses damage from hail they will appreciate the fact that most other teams will be losing additional damage too since it allows them to pick up some key ko's.

    I think that is really your biggest problem as of now since most other threats can be played around. Your team is pretty solid and has a clear direction so there isn't much to change in terms of members as long as you have been finding them all useful.

    hope i have helped and good luck!

    Edit: I would put stealth rocks on jirachi and switch stealth rocks on ferrothorn to protect. This gives your ferrothorn more longevity and allows you to stack hazards much easier. You could also put protect on jirachi instead of sunny day to make it easier to receive its own wishes.
  3. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    115
    So, for Starmie, use Rapid Spin/Hail/Blizzard/Surf?
  4. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

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    Hi there, this is a pretty standard team, but there's a few issues you need to patch up:

    First off, you've got a couple massive weaknesses. Terrakion is a big one, as it can OHKO your entire team. You're prety much saccing a Pokemon every time it comes in, and if it happens to be paired with a CB tar, you're finished, as it can deal with both Gengar and Starmie. For these reasons, I propose you use a bulky Landorus-T over Gengar. Gengar I see as the weak link, as it doesn't really help you with any threats in particular. Without Substitute or Life Orb, it's going to have trouble getting hits off. It's also really frail. Landorus-T provides you with a much less risky pivot for Fighting-type attacks, can take numerous physical attacks, and take Stealth Rock off Ferrothorn.

    Infernape is also a horrendous Pokemon in OU at the moment, as it is simply outclassed and too weak. I think you should replace it with an NP Thundurus-T, as it features better sweeping capabilities, can hit bulky Water-types hard, which is something your team currently lacks. It can also take advantage of the paralysis support Jirachi provides, which is a huge plus.

    With that, you have a team of Landorus-T / Hydreigon / Ferrothorn / Starmie / Thundurus-T / Jirachi. Tbis leaves you with a lack of a revenge killer. To really make your team work the best it can, you need to make one more Pokemon change in using Choice Scarf Salamence over Hydreigon. Sorry to change so much, but honestly, Choice Scarf Salamence just fits so well on this team. It can clean just in case Thundurus-T doesn't get to finish its sweep, provides a top-notch revenge killer, and hits many of the same Pokemon that Hydreigon can. Hydreigon is honestly just too slow for this team, as it is forced out too easily. Salamence also gives you a solid revenge killer for Pokemon like +1 DD Nite. It also gives you another way to handle Breloom, which is always nice to have.

    With that taken care of, there's a few more changes you should make, in my opinion. First off, you should run a bulky Starmie over your current offensive one. It allows Starmie to spin much more reliably, but most importantly, it gives you a better way of handling Keldeo. Offensive Starmie can't take any hits from Keldeo, but a more defensive one can, and as a plus it can spin against Keldeo. Secondly, replace Sunny Day on Jirachi with Protect, as it would allow Jirachi to have more reliable recovery and thus allow it to deal with numerous threats, especially opposing Thundurus-T, much more easily. Sunny Day is honestly completely useless on Jirachi, especially because it has such 4MSS. Since Landorus-T will have Stealth Rock, replace Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball, which helps immensely against Latios, Garchomp, and various other opponents.

    Good luck!

    sets (open)

    Landorus-T @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn

    Thundurus-T @ Life Orb
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Nasty Plot
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power Ice

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 224 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Recover

    Gyro Ball > Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn

    Protect > Sunny Day on Jirachi
  5. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    115
    Sorry man, but I cannot change the two stars of my team. Thanks anyway. However, I will change Sunny Day to Protect and SR to Gyro Ball.

    @MCBarret: Thanks for your suggestions. Hail on Starmie sounds like a unique idea that helps me win the weather war and change the weather. I will test it out. :)
  6. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,312
    Hi fire r a g e, I can see you've put a lot of effort into this RMT and you have some pretty cool sets/team members. However, I think there are some changes to be made, as there are some big weaknesses to prominent threats.

    First off, I don't particularly like choice locked Gengar. Why? Every single one of his moves has a corresponding immunity that would leave Gengar helpless and force him to switch out. Current set: Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, and Thunderbolt. Together, they have pretty good coverage (especially over Rapid Spinners) BUT Shadow Ball has a Normal-type immunity, Focus Blast has a Ghost-type immunity, and Thunderbolt has a Ground-type immunity, and can't hit Volt Absorb users. This leaves Gengar set up bait for threats like Thundurus-T, Landorus, Garchomp, etc. Furthermore, if they double switch and catch you on something other than Focus Blast or Destiny Bond, Tyranitar will instantly KO Gengar 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 336-396 (128.73 - 151.72%) -- guaranteed OHKO and that's goodbye. Scarf Gengar just seems a little too one-dimensional to me, and honestly begs for a Pursuit trapper or a priority user to come in. For instance, 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 244-288 (93.48 - 110.34%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO and 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 326-384 (124.9 - 147.12%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Again, that's it. I know you want to keep your star, so I'll try and give you a way around these threats. Against Pursuit trappers, I think the best thing to do, is to set up a Substitute beforehand, and flee, having Pursuit break the sub and leaving relatively unscathed. If they DON'T have Pursuit trappers like the aforementioned threats, you now have the chance to fire off powerful moves while behind a sub. Even better, right? I know you like the appeal of Destiny Bond, so I ran that in the fourth moveslot, but Thunderbolt or HP Fire could be run there instead. Therefore, I'll suggest that you run this set:

    Show Hide
    Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Destiny Bond


    Furthermore, on Hydreigon, I suggest running Earthquake > Substitute. Why? Because the two of his main moves drastically lower his stats. Draco Meteor will lower SpA by two stages while Superpower lowers Atk and Def by one stage each. Therefore, what's the point of running a Substitute when you won't be able to hit the next pokemon very hard at all? With moves lowering Hydreigon's stats, he loses much staying power, and so Substitute seems counter-intuitive.

    On Ferrothorn, since I will run Stealth Rock on Landorus-T, put Toxic > Stealth rock to stall for even more residual damage and take down set-up sweepers. This works well with Protect on Jirachi as Jirachi becomes even more haxy; Iron Head/Protect on slower, bulkier pokemon that don't care about weak Iron Heads or Paralysis will cause them to be slowly consumed by Toxic damage and possible Leech Seed damage.

    As mentioned by pokemon0078, you really do have a big Terrakion weakness. Terrakion will come in and squish the majority of your team. Especially frightening is the SubSalac set, as after a SD boost and the Salac berry activating, it has an extremely high chance to OHKO your entire team with just its STABs. The only pokemon with even a slightest chance of surviving the onslaught is Jirachi, who has a 75% of being OHKO'd by Close Combat after a boost (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock). Therefore, Landorus-T should be run over Infernape, as it provides good defensive synergy (absorbing Electric moves for Starmie, tanking Fighting moves for Hydreigon, etc) and its weaknesses to Water and Ice are covered by Ferrothorn and Starmie, respectively. The Offensive Pivot set that pokemon0078 suggested would work wonders on your team, as it can deal with Terrakion fairly well through Intimidate, resistance to Close Combat and neutrality to Stone Edge, and good natural bulk. Also, this gives you a reliable Stealth Rock user and Earthquake off a base 145 Atk stat allows you to hit Terrakion. This is the same set as proposed before, but I'll write it again for convenience.

    Show Hide
    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge


    Lastly, dump Sunny Day on Jirachi, as that's really a bad idea. Jirachi is already weak to Fire, and summoning Sun to boost Fire-type moves is suicidal. Therefore, run Protect > Sunny Day to stall for possible residual damage and for passive recovery from Leftovers. Also, since you have Thunder Wave, the need for a fast scarfer is slightly less, and I'm not really sure where I would put one anyway. (Somebody else might propose one.) To change the weather, Hail on a slightly bulkier Starmie might work, but I"m not 100% familiar with bulky Starmie so consider pokemon0078's Starmie.

    With these changes, you now have Gengar/Hydreigon/Ferrothorn,Starmie,Landorus-T/Jirachi. Good luck! Hope this helped!

    tl;dr

    Show Hide
    uhh... OK!
    Scarf Gengar --> Subsitute Gengar
    Earthquake > Substitute on Hydreigon
    Toxic > Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn
    Landorus-T > Infernape
    Protect > Sunny Day on Jirachi
    Offensive Rapid Spin Starmie --> Defensive Rapid Spin Starmie w/ Hail
  7. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    115
    Thanks a lot for your help blitzle! All those changes I will definitely be testing out on PS. Sorry Pokemon, but your changes are too drastic for me to make. However, I have one qualm, Blitzle. Without Infernape, I cannot reliably deal with Scizor, Forretress, and Skarmory, or OHKO Gyarados with Grass Knot at +2. Could I replace him with Heatran maybe to have a more prominent fire type? Also, I have no fighting moves besides Focus Blast. Will that be a problem?
  8. SSJDennis

    SSJDennis

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    17
    Hi, really like your team setup. I just want to give you some advice on Hydreigon.

    Myself, I use Substitute. It actually helps out great versus pokemon that can't hurt you. Switch in and make a sub. Protects you against status and Leech Seed.

    IF you deceide to use Sub, you should use Leftovers. Expert Belt is overkill, if you have it for Blissey. You'll OHKO it anyway (97.5% - 114.8% damage, with Bold nature and 252 HP), unless it has 252 HP, Bold nature and 252 Def. And, if the Blissey has that, it will still live your Superpower WITH Expert Belt. Also, your power will decrease so you can't kill it with your second hit either and it gets worse every turn after. You might consider Focus Blast for everything that isn't Blissey.

    Also Draco Meteor is going to backfire pretty easily if you run a Sub. Sure, its much stronger then Dragon Pulse. But after one hit, Dragon Pulse would do much more damage. You should only run Draco Meteor on Choice Specs or Choice Scarf, as it will nerf Hydreigon big time. Dragon Pulse has much more staying power and will kill any Latios or other dragon when it hits the field, trying to destroy your Sub.

    Fire Blast is really superb on Hydreigon. Surf is good replacement, Earthquake is probably not as good as you expect.

    Just my two cents :)

    HYDREIGON SET (open)

    [​IMG]
    HYDREIGON @ LEFTOVERS
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Mild
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    *Dragon Pulse
    *Fire Blast
    *Focus Blast / Superpower
    *Substitute

    ps. If you pick Focus Blast, use Modest nature.
  9. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,312
    In terms of Fighting moves, you'll also have Superpower on Hydreigon. There's almost no chance of Infernape getting a Nasty Plot boost in a Rain-based metagame (too frail and weak to boosted Water moves), and chances are, Gyarados will KO with Waterfall if you attempt to boost. Also, Scizor, Forretress, and Skarmory are all very weak to Hydreigon's Fire Blast (you wanted him as a wallbreaker, so here he is breaking walls), and if you're concerned about Gyarados, you can run Thunderbolt > Psyshock on Starmie or Thunderbolt > Destiny Bond on Gengar. Also, Heatran > Infernape would give you a pretty big Fighting weakness, and amplify your weakness to Terrakion.
  10. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    167
    Hey again! Got the request.

    Since you want to keep both ScarfGar and Hydreigon, I'll work around them. So first of all, I see two massive threats in DD Dragonite and Volcarona. The former can set up on Infernape and Ferrothorn (and Jirachi to an extent) while the latter can set up on Gengar, Ferrothorn, Starmie (assuming Sun) and Hydreigon. Volcarona also uses Gengar as set-up fodder, so locking yourself into Destiny Bond with Gengar to take it out would cause you to lose the game entirely. I think Infernape fits quite nicely on this team as it supplies a fighting type and a fire-water-grass core. My only beef with him is the set. Without Vacuum Wave, it's easily revenge killed and already difficult to set up. I feel like you'd do much better with the MixApe set, which also deals with your Volcarona problem. Infernape resists both its STABs and Giga Drain, so it's a good thing to switch into when it's trying to boost. Here's the set that I think would most benefit your team:
    Infernape (open)
    [​IMG] (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Stone Edge
    - Overheat
    - Close Combat
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    *IVs should be 30 HP, 30 Def

    I changed the nature over to Hasty so that Volcarona's STABs won't OHKO you. Basically, the set here is more characteristic of Infernape's job in OU. Hit hard and run away. Stone Edge OHKOs Volcarona before it can hope to sweep you while Overheat and Close Combat function as absurdly powerful STABs. HP Ice deters Landorus(-T), Dragonite, and others from setting up on you. After all, prevention is the best protection.

    Moving on with the same ideal of prevention, I feel like a change in Ferrothorn's moveset is in order. To make sure that Dragonite cannot find a single opportunity to set up, give Ferrothorn Gyro Ball over Stealth Rock. I know someone already suggested this, but I really want to enforce it. Making sure Dragonite cannot set up is the best way to deal with it. It also helps against other Dragons and especially Rock Polish Landorus, which can also give you massive amounts of trouble. Since you're now missing Stealth Rock, remove Sunny Day from Jirachi in favor for it. You already have a spinblocker, so having 2 hazards is definitely supported. And let's face it, your team already hates Sun anyway. I feel like you're able to deal with the other weathers just fine, so it's worth it.

    And lastly, I do want to change something on Gengar. You are really weak to DD Dragonite and Rock Polish Landorus, as stated before, so I think it would be a really good idea to replace Thunderbolt with Hidden Power [Ice]. One of the greatest things about Gengar is its immunity to ExtremeSpeed, and since it outspeeds even +2 Dragonite, you'll always be able to revenge kill it without any problems. Similarly, Rock Polish Landorus almost never has Psychic, and since its HP Ice never kills Gengar, you'll have a nice answer to that as well. I don't think you have a problem with Skarmory, Gyarados, or bulky waters, so I doubt you'll miss Thunderbolt.

    Lastly, I just want to throw it out there that only Life Orb Hydro Pumps on Starmie OHKO 4HP Gengar. Against Deo-Gar HO teams, this can be the difference between winning and losing because you'd be forced to switch out of Gengar (or die to a Shadow Ball after it lives a Surf) if it comes in to spinblock. I know you like Surf's accuracy, so if you want a solid method of killing Gengar, I'd recommend Psyshock over Thunderbolt. It has pretty decent neutral coverage and always OHKOs Terrakion in Sand, Keldeo, Breloom, Conkeldurr after Spikes, and others. I don't really see the need for Thunderbolt on your team since Ferrothorn loves going face-to-face with bulky waters to set up Spikes and get some more HP with Leech Seed.

    That's all! Cool team dood~ Good luck!
  11. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

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    Thank you. Time to test out all your changes! :)
  12. Basileus

    Basileus

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    This would be a cool name for a mono ghost team, but idk honestly. Short and sweet I think Garchomp is a better dragon wall for this team because of it's speed. dregion and chomp are very similar but it is your choice. I suggest the classic stealth rocks build if you are going to replace stealth rocks on ferrothorn for gyro ball.Use stealth rocks build with swords dance. Also, destiny bond is VERY DIFFICULT to master on a scarfed gengar so watch out for that, I would suggest replacing it with HP ice for more coverage.

    Overall I love your team, GL. :D
  13. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

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    I have pulled it off in a few test battles today. Weather inducers feared me.
  14. Basileus

    Basileus

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    Still think you should send in stealth chomp, give ferro Gyro ball, and HP ice is greater then destiny bond.
  15. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

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    I want to change the weather without being a weather team. Does Hail work for Starmie?
  16. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Hello!

    You seem weak to a lot of things. Sun teams come to mind (namely Growth Venusaur). Band Scizor is another problem, as well as Volcarona and Dragonite.

    This teams seems like its trying to be offensive, but it the bulky Ferrothorn ruins it (since Jira is plenty offensive even when defensive). Starmie also lacks a place on this team, so I was thinking you should drop Ferrothorn and Starmie in favor of Life Orb'ed Latias. It does Starmie's roll (minus the Rapid Spinning) and also does Ferrothorn in the light that its still a great answer to rain teams, as well as checking Keldeo and Terrakion (which are huge threats).

    With Starmie gone, I suggest you run Double Dance Landorus-T. It's a great answer to Sand teams and Sun teams alike, as well as providing Intimidate to help take those fighting hits better that usually target Hydregion. Finally, I would replace Infernape for the likes of Expert Belt Keldeo. EB Keldeo works wonders next to Hydregion and Latias, who easily beat all of its checks and counters. Keldeo can provide utility Rain Dance to stop sun assaults as well as combat sand, rain, and sun teams.

    Use 72Hp / 252 Atk / 186 Spe and Adamant on Landorus, 72Hp / 184 SAtk / 252 spe with Timid on Latias, and use Hydro Pump / IcyWind / Rain Dance / Secret Sword Keldeo. I have to go GL!


    Edit:

    Ok iPod edits since bell rang on computer >_>

    Body Slam > Twave on Jirachi.
    The above changes synergies well, beats sun, and makes it a tad more offensive, but Intimidate on Landorus-T should more than make up for loss of Ferrothorn. Sadly , you lose spikes, but its not that bad to be frank! :)

    If Toxicroak is threatening test Hp psychic over Rain Dance

    GL and stuff :P PM again if you need more rates ~
  17. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

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    Thanks for all the suggestions. Starmie and Ferrothorn can be replaced, so I don't mind that you changed them. However, Ferrothorn had such good synergy with my team and it provided Spikes. I will test out Lando-T over Infernape, but the lack of mixed firepower Infernape had will be hard for me to live with.
  18. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    I had said land over mie and be Kedly over Ape ^^

    Gl in testing mate :)
  19. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

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    My bad.
    I forgot to add this to my last post...
    "Weird, because over on the simple questions and simple answers thread, they said that Starmie and Ferrothorn are a fit for my team..."
  20. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    I named my reasons for the changes. Latias can do Ferro and Starmies job whileJira maintains steel typing. LandyT over Starmie, which is now useless since Latias, help fight sand, namely band tar (sets up easily). RD Keldeo momentarily removes sun weather while acting as back up rain fighter and it crushes sand. It's great since Hydregion removes EB Keldeos counters alongside Latias, while changing the weather like you wanted. Ape is not needed. Your limiting yourself since you like it. Do what you will, I hope this rate helps this team but if your arbent on keeping ape then what do you want me to do? You told me via pm not to replace gar or Hydregion , so I'm trying to play to their strengths with these replacements as you requested. I did just that. GL


    If you want to take simple q&a answers over my suggestions than why did you ask me to rate? I saw problems and I fixed them. I hope no matter what you pick that it turns out successful, Good Luck.
  21. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

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    I changed Keldeo from Infernape as Shurt suggested; however, Infernape is in reserve.

    Gimmick's changes are implemented as well.
  22. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Hi! Here are a few changes you could try...

    Put Life Orb and Roost on Hydreigon instead of Expert Belt and Sub. The added power allows Hydreigon's DM to be a real wallbreaking tool, and Roost helps mitigate LO damage and potential SR + sand damage too.

    You also seems pretty Scizor weak. Th CB variant can get free switches against Gengar and Ferro and start wrecking shit. The SD set can find set-up chances against the same Pokemon and then procceed to OHKO your entire team, excpet for Starmie, which takes 61% min from +2 BP and is vulnerable to passive damage, Pursuit and frail, leaving Keldeo as your only check to it. My suggestion? Use Fire Punch over SR on Jirachi. This way you will be able to outspeed and OHKO Adamant offensive Scizor after SR and 1 LO round. You will also be able to hurt CB Scizor instead of being forced to take a huge amount of damage from U-turn. Fire Punch will also allow Jirachi to deal much better against Ferrothorn and Magnezone, which both seem problematic.

    Finally, i suggest replacing Keldeo with Landorus-T. This is because Terrakion is a huge pain in the ass for this team, as is CB Scizor, which i mentioned earlier. LO Garchomp gets a kill every time he comes in if it predicts correctly too. Here is the set:

    Landorus-T @ Leftovers
    252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Relaxed nature
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn

    With Keldeo gone you are a bit more weak to Sheer Force Landorus, but Gengar can always revenge kill it, where Ferrothorn lives one hit and KOs back.

    That was all i hope i helped, even though i am not so good at team rates.
  23. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

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    No, you were good in rating. I will try out your changes as well. :)

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