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Special Tactics: Pokemon Trainer Red runs a Sun Team.

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by zahariel, May 10, 2012.

  1. zahariel

    zahariel

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    43
    Recreating a Legend

    [​IMG]

    To me, Pokemon Trainer Red wasn't just a video game character - he was a legend. When Red Version came out, I was in fact that tender age of 10. Before Yellow Version was out, I had already collected all 151 Pokemon. I legitimately purchased both Scyther and Porygon, and I would sit there buying tokens in batches of 5 (like a BOSS) tapping at the A button for hours on the family road trips. I would sit there and dream up a story in my mind about the young trainer from Pallet Town. It was the story of a pokemon trainer named Satoshi Ketchum, but all his friends just called him 'Red'. He took on the Pokemon League Challenge, and on the way his fate became entangled with Team Rocket. This was due to the unexplainable rivalry between Red and the Rocket's nefarious Boss, Giovanni. After displaying immense bravery, Red emerged victorious against Giovanni using the team of Pokemon he'd collected all along the way - Pikachu, Charizard, Blastoise, Venusaur, Snorlax, and Lapras. This line up would go on to defeat the remaining Gym Leader, climaxing in the final show down between Red and Giovanni (who is revealed to be a former super-genius trainer whose career mysteriously ended years ago). Besting the former Rocket Boss one last time, Satoshi moves on into the Pokemon League National tournament. The Legend of Pokemon Trainer Red is forged in an unheard of rookie who goes undefeated in the tournament, overcomes the Elite Four Challenge, and then is paired off against last season's Champion, Pokemon Trainer Green (NOT Blue). We all know the rest.

    Then in Gen II, I found myself face-to-face with a trainer who I very legitimately believed to be myself. His line-up, with the exclusion of Lapras, was the same as mine had been. That's right, because in the original generation two games Red used Espeon instead of Lapras (the anime hadn't reached the Orange Islands yet if I recall correctly). In fact, in that very team, there was a Sunny Day user (Venusaur). Realizing that this had legitimate ramifications for making Red's Team viable in the current OU Meta.

    Long ago in Gen IV, you had to set up Sunny Day and Rain Dance with a Pokemon equipped with the corresponding Held Item. This gives the player 8 turns of weather effects, unless otherwise disturbed. In addition, the fact that it is used as a move can serve as a counteraction against opposing Weather Teams that use ability-induced weather. I contemplated this strategy and wondered how it could play out in the current Meta. After some testing, it became clear that this team had potential to be more than perhaps a simple gimmick team.


    [​IMG]
    Espeon (M) @ Heat Rock
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Morning Sun
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psyshock

    Comments: In Generation II, Espeon was proof that Red had trained into the next Generation. Presumably, this is the Eevee that Bill gives Red in Cerulean City. Espeon is the key Pokemon in this line-up, and when translating the original Gen II line-up it became abundantly clear that Espeon made much more sense for this team in Gen V. His strategic value is immense. From a team standpoint, Espeon's primary function is to activate Sunny Day for 8 Turns. This is what unlocks the true potential of Red's Sweepers: Charizard and Venusaur. Obviously, Magic Bounce is also invaluable in protecting Charizard from Stealth Rock, and neutralizing most tactical approaches to battle. Morning Sun nets a 2/3 HP recovery in the Sun as well, and HP Fire can be useful against Ferrothorn or Scizor especially in the Sun. Psyshock because Blissey.

    [​IMG]
    Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 208 HP / 124 Def / 176 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Sleep Talk
    - Rest
    - Whirlwind
    - Return

    Comments: Snorlax serves as the Special Wall of this team. Rest/Talk ensures that he will be able to shake off any negative stats, and you can take his HP to the limit because Rest is a full heal - don't be stupid, though. Red uses this Pokemon to sponge Special Sweeper-would-be's. He can also PHaze a set-up Pokemon as well. Return does stupidly huge damage, so Body Slam's Paralyzing factor isn't accounted for. Saving him as a Pokemon of last resort who takes a Spore from Breloom now and then to activate Sleep Clause, well that's just Special Tactics at it's finest.

    [​IMG]
    Blastoise (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Roar
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald

    Comments: Blastoise is the Physical Wall/Utility Pokemon of Red's Special Tactics. Red was a smart trainer, basing his team around a core of Fire, Water and Grass. As a Bulky Water he is gifted with wonderful resistances and a fat 362 HP. His DW ability, Rain Dish, gives Blastoise the chance to get Double HP Gain as a small punishment to Rain Teams. Toxic breaks other Bulky Waters. Roar ensures that he can PHazer even Substitutes. Rapid Spin is a last resort if you failed to predict with Espeon or it has fainted. Scald might get critical burns on Pokemon such as Scizor or Terrakion.


    [​IMG]
    Charizard (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Solar Power
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Focus Blast
    - Fire Blast
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Comments: Charizard, the Fire portion of the FWG core to this team, is the real star of this Sunny Day Special Tactics line up. His Solar Power gives him all the juice you could possibly ask of a Special Sweeper. I decided to change over to an Expert Belt in order to stop being Choice-Locked, which many teams could take advantage of. The raw power of this build is still monstrous, so there is no temptation to use a Life Orb. Fire Blast is the new STAB Fire move of choice without the Scarf. Focus Blast is important against key pokemon like Tyranitar. SolarBeam is obvious in the Sun. HP Ice cleans up Dragons and annoyances like Gliscor. I have gotten so many free switches by placing Pikachu on the field to draw an EQ. I really don't understand why people don't see it coming.


    [​IMG]
    Venusaur (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 140 HP / 252 Atk / 116 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Swords Dance
    - Seed Bomb
    - Earthquake

    Comments: The Grass portion of the FWG trio of this team, Red's Venusaur is truly a Special Tactics masterpiece. A Swords Dance Venusaur can reach over 1000 Atk at +6, allowing him to sweep with Chlorophyll backed speeds of 450 with this EV Spread. The HP investment makes him bulky enough to take some Fighting Type hits for Snorlax, though, and he has survived many battles. Black Sludge provides healing every turn. Sleep Powder usually ensures a switch so you can trust in a +2 for sure in your Atk. Seed Bomb for his STAB Atk is the law. Earthquake provides critical coverage against the many types that resist Grass. Venusaur's a Poison Type, so Toxic Spikes are a warm welcoming for it.

    [​IMG]
    Pikachu (M) @ Light Ball
    Trait: Lightningrod
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Thunderbolt
    - Encore
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Comments: Pikachu is that signature Pokemon, endowed by the graces of Yellow Version and the anime and manga to the mythos of Pokemon Trainer Red. While he was originally thought to be nothing more than a liability because of his low SAtk and reliance on the Light Ball to be relevant, the DW offered him a chance to become a key Special Tactics Pokemon. Pikachu exists on this team for one reason alone - to take every Electric Type attack thrown at this team. Both Blastoise and Charizard draw Electric moves, and any sweeper could very well be crippled by a Thunder Wave. Lightningrod absorbs the move and gives Pikachu a +1 SAtk. With a Spe of 305, Pikachu can be a threat for a brief moment. Substitue is used to provide Pikachu with a single turn to act before his pathetic defenses fail him. Thunderbolt is the obvious STAB attack. Encore may frustrate Thunder Wave users like Ferrothorn and Dragonite. Not only that, but Pikachu can shut down Volt Switch, at least once. HP Ice can hit Dragons and Gliscor.
  2. CedOmega

    CedOmega

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    Nice team. You seem to be open to opposing Sun team attacks, which could be troublesome fo you. When under sun(refering to Blastoise), its Scald suffers powerloss, which could cost you the game should your opponent have Volcarona with full HP out. After one QuiverDance, Volcarona could potentially OHKO 5/6 of your team. Having said that, LifeOrb Volcarona can OHKO your entire team thanks to STAB Flamethrower under sun, plus LifeOrb's boost.

    So far, Volcarona is the only threat I see to your team. Prankster Sableye could pose somewhat of a threat but,for now, I see your team having no struggle against them.
  3. zahariel

    zahariel

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    43
    Thanks so much! I've played with this team a bunch of times under the handle [SpecialTactics]Red on the server, and I have seen mixed success. Volcarona isn't usually a huge problem for me because so many players get tricked into bouncing Rocks onto their side of the field, but you are right that Volcarona has beaten this lineup on occasion. I don't see many Prankster Sableye's, so that's not been an issue either.

    When I win, though, I usually win big...or on the coat-tails of Snorlax.
  4. labarith

    labarith

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,689
    What this team has going for it is suprise. The opponent's like "oh, it's a newb with pikachu and the first 3 starters" and you turn out to have a sunnyday team.

    Notes:
    I would think a HP Fire mixed or special Venosaur w/ Growth would be a better option than the SD set. I also don't see Black Sludge being that useful as your guy outruns most of what it's expected to kill, and is OHKO by any opponent's fire move.

    Charizard - Life Orb > Expert Belt. He's already got a life expectancy on him in the sun. No reason to pretend otherwise. Alternatively a Choice Scarf set might let him outspeed crucial opponents. End of the day this pokemon is only useful to trick your oponent into thinking you're running a bad team. As long as you know this, you need to focus on the surprize factor. Choice Scarf might let you do that more.

    Pikachu - I like the NP set over the substitute set... http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/pikachu...
    But the real question is whether you can throw some curveballs in there.

    Blastoise + Snorlax as set up need Stealth Rocks, and probably a ghost spinblocker. Otherwise there are better sets out there for them. You can't rely upon your opponent magic bouncing them to himself.
  5. Anthrix

    Anthrix

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Interesting team - however, only having one Sunny Day user could be a bit of a problem for Venusaur and Charizard. You could opt to give Charizard Sunny Day, or run Sunny Day Venusaur instead. I think both are a bit slow and weak otherwise.

    The other option is to not rely on Sunny Day at all, and go with a Life Orb Charizard with Roost. This means you don't get Solar Power, but Life Orb is much more reliable. Roost can be used to keep yourself healthy, and with 3 of Fire Blast / HP Ice / Focus Blast / Air Slash, Charizard would threaten quite a lot. Sure you miss out on Solar Power, but with only one Sunny Day user that Charizard doesn't help out too much you're not relying on it too much anyway.

    I'd also consider a more offensive Snorlax. Most of the team is fairly fast paced, and I could see that Snorlax being asleep or selecting Rest could cost you the match. You don't have any reliable Fighting resists either, so Roost Charizard could help you here as long as you avoid Stone Edges. How about running 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 SpD on Snorlax, and using his more offensive movepool? You could give him Fire Blast, which would act as a good lure for Skarmory to help Venusaur sweep a bit easier.

    Good luck!
  6. Gamein99

    Gamein99

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2012
    Messages:
    136
    Thanks for makin this team. Although I remember back in crystal when my feraligator solo sweep reds team, without any boosts, just some nice crits off slash. I would says the biggest threats to your team are other sun teams. A chlorophyll venasaur could sweep most of the team, provided it has hp rock for charizard. Cool theme thiugh.
  7. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,983
    Ash isn't red ;).

    Anyway this looks like a pretty good gimmicky team, a heck lot better than some of the other ones out there. You have some balls to use Pikachu in OU.

    First thing I have to say is try out focus punch (along with a Naive nature of course) over encore, since all your really setting up is sunny day, and pikachu would love to hit Blissey and Tyranitar with focus punch, you have sub anyway.

    My second suggestion is that you use choice band snorlax over your current one. Considering the offensive nature of this team, it may be better to have it hit special attacks hard and even trap and kill them, then just wall them. It also traps and kills Latios, Latias, and Candelure, which I am sure are a problem for this team.

    Snorlax (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Frustration
    - Earthquake
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit

    Good luck.

    Edit: to address this silly debate, simply look at the dates. The pokemon anime aired in 1997, the first pokemon games came out in early 1996. Clearly red was first.
  8. Nubagator

    Nubagator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    168
    Despite the fact that the videogame character Red, existed years before the cartoon adaptation, Ash?

    As for the team since all the members are set in stone, I would just change the sets up. I feel like Roar and whirlwind are both not worth it on Blastoise and Lax. You don't have any hazards to abuse, and can only obtain them with a well timed Espeon switch. I would consider Ice beam on Blastoise as a replacement, and perhaps shifting over to a Curselax, which would greatly boost your match-up against stall, assuming no perish songer, and that you've managed to eliminate any mon immune to Body slam + coverage move.
  9. Elgoo

    Elgoo

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    226
    I threw focus punch on pikachu instead of encore and sunny day on snorlax (rest, sleep talk, sunny day, return)

    This was the result
    Show Hide


    Tier: Dream World OU
    Mode: Singles
    Variation: +51, -49
    Rule: Rated
    Rule: Sleep Clause
    Rule: Species Clause
    Rule: Wifi Battle

    Your team: Espeon / Snorlax / Charizard / Venusaur / Blastoise / Pikachu
    Opponent's team: Politoed / Swampert / Basculin / Tentacruel / Vaporeon / Suicune

    dr_sly_man sent out Espeon!
    HIRoTON sent out Politoedea! (Politoed)
    HIRoTON's Politoedea's Drizzle made it rain!

    Start of turn 1
    Espeon used Sunny Day!
    The sunlight turned harsh!

    HIRoTON's Politoedea used Hydro Pump!
    Espeon lost 127 HP! (46% of its health)
    HIRoTON's Politoedea is hurt by its Life Orb!

    The sunlight is strong!

    Start of turn 2
    dr_sly_man called Espeon back!
    dr_sly_man sent out Venusaur!

    HIRoTON called Politoedea back!
    HIRoTON sent out Tentacruela! (Tentacruel)

    The sunlight is strong!

    Start of turn 3
    Venusaur used Swords Dance!
    Venusaur's Attack sharply rose!

    HIRoTON's Tentacruela used Scald!
    It's not very effective...
    Venusaur lost 21 HP! (6% of its health)
    Venusaur was burned!

    The sunlight is strong!
    Venusaur restored a little HP using its Black Sludge!
    Venusaur is hurt by its burn!

    Start of turn 4
    HIRoTON called Tentacruela back!
    HIRoTON sent out Politoedea! (Politoed)

    HIRoTON's Politoedea's Drizzle made it rain!
    Venusaur used Earthquake!
    HIRoTON's Politoedea lost 29% of its health!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Venusaur restored a little HP using its Black Sludge!
    Venusaur is hurt by its burn!

    Start of turn 5
    Venusaur used Sleep Powder!
    HIRoTON's Politoedea fell asleep!

    HIRoTON's Politoedea is fast asleep!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Venusaur restored a little HP using its Black Sludge!
    Venusaur is hurt by its burn!

    Start of turn 6
    HIRoTON called Politoedea back!
    HIRoTON sent out Swamperta! (Swampert)

    Venusaur used Sleep Powder!
    The attack of Venusaur missed!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Venusaur restored a little HP using its Black Sludge!
    Venusaur is hurt by its burn!

    Start of turn 7
    Venusaur used Seed Bomb!
    It's super effective!
    HIRoTON's Swamperta lost 100% of its health!
    HIRoTON's Swamperta fainted!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Venusaur restored a little HP using its Black Sludge!
    Venusaur is hurt by its burn!
    HIRoTON sent out Tentacruela! (Tentacruel)

    Start of turn 8
    HIRoTON's Tentacruela used Scald!
    It's not very effective...
    Venusaur lost 55 HP! (16% of its health)

    Venusaur used Earthquake!
    It's super effective!
    HIRoTON's Tentacruela lost 74% of its health!

    Rain continues to fall!
    HIRoTON's Tentacruela's Rain Dish heals it!
    HIRoTON's Tentacruela restored a little HP using its Black Sludge!
    Venusaur restored a little HP using its Black Sludge!
    Venusaur is hurt by its burn!

    Start of turn 9
    HIRoTON's Tentacruela used Toxic Spikes!
    Poison spikes were scattered all around the feet of dr_sly_man's team!

    Venusaur used Earthquake!
    It's super effective!
    HIRoTON's Tentacruela lost 37% of its health!
    HIRoTON's Tentacruela fainted!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Venusaur restored a little HP using its Black Sludge!
    Venusaur is hurt by its burn!
    HIRoTON sent out Basculina! (Basculin)

    Start of turn 10
    HIRoTON's Basculina used Crunch!
    Venusaur lost 113 HP! (33% of its health)
    Venusaur fainted!

    Rain continues to fall!
    dr_sly_man sent out Espeon!
    Espeon was poisoned!

    Start of turn 11
    HIRoTON's Basculina used Crunch!
    It's super effective!
    Espeon lost 144 HP! (53% of its health)
    Espeon fainted!

    Rain continues to fall!
    dr_sly_man sent out Snorlax!
    Snorlax was poisoned!

    Start of turn 12
    HIRoTON called Basculina back!
    HIRoTON sent out Vaporeona! (Vaporeon)

    Snorlax used Sunny Day!
    The sunlight turned harsh!

    The sunlight is strong!
    Snorlax is hurt by poison!

    Start of turn 13
    HIRoTON's Vaporeona used Acid Armor!
    HIRoTON's Vaporeona's Defense sharply rose!

    Snorlax used Rest!
    Snorlax went to sleep and became healthy!

    The sunlight is strong!

    Start of turn 14
    HIRoTON's Vaporeona used Acid Armor!
    HIRoTON's Vaporeona's Defense sharply rose!

    Snorlax is fast asleep!
    Snorlax used Sleep Talk!
    Snorlax used Rest!
    But if failed!

    The sunlight is strong!

    Start of turn 15
    dr_sly_man called Snorlax back!
    dr_sly_man sent out Charizard!

    HIRoTON's Vaporeona used Acid Armor!
    HIRoTON's Vaporeona's Defense sharply rose!

    The sunlight is strong!
    Charizard lost some HP because of Solar Power!

    Start of turn 16
    Charizard used SolarBeam!
    It's super effective!
    HIRoTON's Vaporeona lost 98% of its health!

    HIRoTON's Vaporeona used Scald!
    It's super effective!
    Charizard lost 128 HP! (42% of its health)

    The sunlight faded!
    HIRoTON's Vaporeona restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 17
    Charizard used Fire Blast!
    It's not very effective...
    HIRoTON's Vaporeona lost 7% of its health!
    HIRoTON's Vaporeona fainted!

    HIRoTON sent out Basculina! (Basculin)

    Start of turn 18
    Charizard absorbed light!

    HIRoTON's Basculina used Waterfall!
    It's super effective!
    Charizard lost 133 HP! (44% of its health)
    Charizard fainted!

    dr_sly_man sent out Snorlax!

    Start of turn 19
    HIRoTON's Basculina used Waterfall!
    Snorlax lost 280 HP! (54% of its health)

    Snorlax is fast asleep!
    Snorlax used Sleep Talk!
    Snorlax used Return!
    HIRoTON's Basculina lost 71% of its health!

    Snorlax restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 20
    HIRoTON's Basculina used Waterfall!
    Snorlax lost 265 HP! (51% of its health)
    Snorlax fainted!

    dr_sly_man sent out Blastoise!
    Blastoise was poisoned!

    Start of turn 21
    HIRoTON called Basculina back!
    HIRoTON sent out Suicune!

    Blastoise used Toxic!
    HIRoTON's Suicune was badly poisoned!

    HIRoTON's Suicune is hurt by poison!
    Blastoise is hurt by poison!

    Start of turn 22
    HIRoTON's Suicune used Calm Mind!
    HIRoTON's Suicune's Sp. Att. rose!
    HIRoTON's Suicune's Sp. Def. rose!

    Blastoise used Roar!
    HIRoTON's Politoedea was dragged out!
    HIRoTON's Politoedea's Drizzle made it rain!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Blastoise's Rain Dish heals it!
    Blastoise restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Blastoise is hurt by poison!

    Start of turn 23
    dr_sly_man called Blastoise back!
    dr_sly_man sent out Pikachu!
    Pikachu was poisoned!

    HIRoTON's Politoedea is fast asleep!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Pikachu is hurt by poison!

    Start of turn 24
    Pikachu used Substitute!
    Pikachu made a substitute!

    HIRoTON's Politoedea is fast asleep!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Pikachu is hurt by poison!

    Start of turn 25
    Pikachu used Thunderbolt!
    It's super effective!
    HIRoTON's Politoedea lost 60% of its health!
    HIRoTON's Politoedea fainted!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Pikachu is hurt by poison!
    HIRoTON sent out Basculina! (Basculin)

    Start of turn 26
    HIRoTON's Basculina used Aqua Jet!
    Pikachu's substitute faded!

    Pikachu used Thunderbolt!
    It's super effective!
    HIRoTON's Basculina lost 28% of its health!
    HIRoTON's Basculina fainted!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Pikachu is hurt by poison!
    HIRoTON sent out Suicune!

    Start of turn 27
    Pikachu used Thunderbolt!
    It's super effective!
    HIRoTON's Suicune lost 84% of its health!

    HIRoTON's Suicune used Scald!
    Pikachu lost 55 HP! (26% of its health)
    Pikachu fainted!

    Rain continues to fall!
    HIRoTON's Suicune is hurt by poison!
    dr_sly_man sent out Blastoise!

    Start of turn 28
    HIRoTON's Suicune used Scald!
    It's not very effective...
    Blastoise lost 81 HP! (22% of its health)

    Blastoise used Rapid Spin!
    HIRoTON's Suicune lost 2% of its health!
    HIRoTON's Suicune fainted!
    Blastoise blew away Toxic Spikes!

    dr_sly_man won the battle!
    dr_sly_man: Its okay, maybe next time.
    dr_sly_man: gg

    The window was disabled due to one of the players closing the battle window.


    Focus punch didnt do much for me but The sunny day on snorlax was pretty cool to have.
  10. PokeQ8

    PokeQ8

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1
    Red <3

    But zahariel i have problems facing a dragonite when he dragon dance ones he simply trols me plz tell me what should i do to dragonite i used everything using your team but outspeed and cause problems
  11. Chieliee

    Chieliee

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,811
    ur underestimating the power of sun and solar power and expert belt and stab boosted fire blast :o. Volc can't do much to zard

    but if SR is on your side of the field, the situation is different. since zard can only switch in once

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