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Spelling and Grammar Standards

Discussion in 'Sixth Generation Contributions' started by GatoDelFuego, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. Swamp Link

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    STAB is too ingrained as a term in and of itself that doesn't describe anything else. It may sound grammatically awkward if you read STAB as same-type attack bonus whenever it's used, but things like STAB option or STAB move sound wrong as well.
  2. Ununhexium

    Ununhexium "My life has got to be like this, it's got to keep going up"
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    Yeah ik it was just a thought though.
  3. Lady Salamence

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    But it's grammatically incorrect to use STAB as a stand-alone noun, regardless if "STAB move" sounds wrong (which is not an opinion I subscribe to)
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  4. Kangaaroo

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    I think when you say something like "Draco Meteor is a good STAB option/move for Noivern" it sounds fine. I wouldn't know how else to word it to be honest.
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  5. Ununhexium

    Ununhexium "My life has got to be like this, it's got to keep going up"
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    Yes STAB move doesn't sound wrong in my opinion. I agree that we should discontinue the use of STAB as a noun and encourage STAB move or STAB option
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  6. Calm Pokemaster

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    Um, I think we are talking about the same thing? I too wanted STAB to be paired with a 'variable', as you put it: like "move" or "option" or whatever. The only difference is that I want this to be the standard way of writing it (if this is going to be made a standard) i.e., the variable you use is preferably move / attack / option. I just feel that "deal a lot of damage with their STABs" sounds a little awkward.

    Also lol, I think you can expect readers to figure out that Heatran / Infernape are Fire-types, that they won't use Ember or Fire Fang or whatever :P

    tbh I'm not really sold on having this added as a standard to the list. We can just point it out while GPing and be done with it.

    Yeah, I know if you read it that way "same-type attack bonus move" sounds stupid, but we read "STAB move" and understand it as "a move that gets STAB".

    And no, for the love of god no "STABM" or whatever, that just sounds worse >:( >:(

    tl;dr "STAB move / option / attack" sounds better than "STABs / STAB" if you want to refer to "an attack that gets the same-type attack bonus", but I don't know if this is so big an issue that it needs to be added to the list.
  7. Lady Salamence

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    You seemed to imply that Gato's second example was wrong, and I disagree. Did I miss something?
  8. Calm Pokemaster

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    Nope, you didn't. I just think "STAB moves" seems better than "STABs" as I said in my previous post.

    eh let's just agree to disagree I guess :P
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2014
  9. Electrolyte

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    STAB is an adjective describing a move. It is not a noun, so it should not be used as one. (It is only a noun when it represents the actual boost being given to the attack in question.) It not only requires a variable; it requires a noun variable for it to describe.

    Thus, these are incorrect:

    "Magma Storm is one of Heatran's most powerful STABs."
    AND
    "Fire-types hit powerfully with their STABs."**

    I agree with Calm Pokemaster. In both cases, the word STAB is missing its noun- it isn't describing anything. To fix this, a noun must be added- "STAB moves" and "STAB attacks" are both grammatically correct.

    **Note that, because STAB is an adjective, it should never be pluralized to "STABs". Plurality should always be expressed in the noun. (This is a helpful tip. If you're ever not sure if you're using STAB correctly, check if you're using "STABs"- if you are, odds are you're (incorrectly) using it as a noun.)
  10. horyzhnz

    horyzhnz [10:02:17 AM] flcl: its hory xD
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    So does this mean we need to overhaul all the finished analyses?
    I know we'll need to keep this in mind for future analyses and update the Grammar thread and whatnot, but I'm fairly certain 'STABs' has been used many times in already finished analyses.

    edit: ot, yeah, I reckon electro's correct; STAB is used more often than not as an adjective so just for consistency's sake: STAB move / [name of move], not STABs ('-Pokemon-'s same type attack bonuses get good coverage' just sounds plain wrong too)
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2014
  11. Ununhexium

    Ununhexium "My life has got to be like this, it's got to keep going up"
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    Likely. It would be inefficient, but (I think) necessary. We can't just leave all analyses with a simple grammatical error due to the lack of previous discussion. This means that all analyses need going through (from RBY too) but it isn't way too difficult. Just use the find in page function, go through, and make the correction. The only real issue is the amount of time it will take.
  12. horyzhnz

    horyzhnz [10:02:17 AM] flcl: its hory xD
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    We shouldn't be needing to go back and change ALL analyses, only the ones that are actually relevant at this time; basically only the XY ones which most people will be viewing, since what's done is done, and there's not much point to necroing analyses that nobody will be looking at. Just my two cents.
  13. Calm Pokemaster

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    lol no we don't need to go back and fix all the instances of "STABs". I know it's wrong, but just fix it when you come across it in the future. This is what we follow for most conventions we frame: fix it in future analyses, but don't waste time going back and fixing all its occurrences in previously written stuff.
  14. Lady Salamence

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    Didn't we do retroactive work when it came to stuff like "the crux of the set"?
  15. Electrolyte

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    I don't find it necessary to actively go back and fix this because it isn't as widespread of a problem as the "crux" and "first glance" issues were. (Of course, if you see the mistake, you are obligated as not only a GP member but also a badged user to fix it, but you don't have to actively look for the errors.) Also, as far as I know, I have always corrected for the use of "STAB" as anything besides an adjective anyway, and will just continue to do so.

    This isn't a major rule change; this rule has always existed, unlike the rules against prose repetition in the past. People have just overlooked it, so we'll be fine as long as everyone is aware and fixing it again.
  16. bugmaniacbob

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    wait I've been changing "STABs" to "STAB attacks" since I started GP

    Has nobody else been doing so? Really? (I mean aside from Electrolyte and the others here)

    I was very much under the impression that this was, if not a standard, at least correct English. If it isn't clear to everybody, it should be made explicit.
  17. Oglemi

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    Also remember it's about 1000x easier to do mass sweeps and correct stuff like that with the SCMS. For now don't bother with doing it with the current "finished" analyses since they're in thread form, just know that it's the current standard and focus on fixing ones from here on out.

    I standardized the no accent on the e in Pokemon for the entire site bar The Smog in 2 days a couple years ago, and Honko and a couple others eliminated "crux" in about the same timespan. Mass sweeps are doable, just have to remember to do them. 9.9
  18. GatoDelFuego

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    I've always been changing STAB when talking about a move to STAB moves or whatever, but I just noticed a big increase in its use so I wanted to start a discussion about it.

    I have to disagree that STAB is ALWAYS incorrect--LS's thoughts are exactly what mine are. STAB is usually an adjective, as in "STAB move--a move that gets STAB". When you break it down though: same type attack bonus. In this case it's a noun. I've always interpreted there to be one "STAB" for each type in the game. In that sense, I've always thought a sentence like "Terrakion has two of the best STABs in the game" was perfectly correct, in that it gets a Fighting STAB and a Rock STAB. I know that this form has been used quite a bit and is kind of a "staple" in Smogon writing or something like that? I just don't believe that STAB when used to describe the bonus for a certain type is wrong.

    90% of the time though I agree STAB is being used wrong to describe a STAB move.
  19. Cobalt314

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    I don't know if I'm allowed to post here, or not, but should Arceus holding a different plate be considered a "forme" difference or a "type" difference? I've heard people referring to them as different formes, but the official Pokédex recognizes all of them as just Arceus, and not Grass Arceus, Fire Arceus, Flying arceus, etc. Which one should we use?
  20. Calm Pokemaster

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    We say Arceus formes e.g., "support Arceus formes such as Fairy Arceus"
  21. GatoDelFuego

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    Attack control vs attack control

    I've seen two uses for this: the first being Attack control; controlling the opponent's Attack stat, by use of burns or Intimidate. The other is absorbing/redirecting attacks, such as with Follow Me or Rage Powder, which would be "attack control". Because we added in speed control, I'll add this one as well in a bit.
  22. GatoDelFuego

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    For a sentence such as "Heatran can hit Lucario hard on the switch in," what form of "switch in" should we use? I've been using the two-word version, as it would be the same as "hit hard on the switch". I only ask because "switch-in" is a noun in itself, but usually refers to "something that switches in". Thoughts?
  23. Lady Salamence

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    "Switch in" would appear to me to be a verb. It is an action Lucario is taking.

    "Switch-in" would appear to me to be a noun. It is Lucario itself. Lucario is the switch-in.
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  24. fleurdyleurse

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    hyphen. It's optimal to just use 'hit hard on the switch' rather than 'hit hard on the switch-in', imo, as it causes less confusion.
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
  25. Oglemi

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    Switch-in is strictly a noun:

    "Scizor is a great switch-in to counter Whimsicott."

    Switch in is two words, meaning you are actively switching a Pokemon in:

    "Try to switch in Heatran on Fire-type attacks."
    "Heatran easily switches in on Steel-type attacks."

    Switch into is also acceptable:

    "Try to switch into Fire-type attacks if using Heatran."
    "Do not switch into Stealth Rock if you need Shuca Heatran to take an Earth Power."

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