Spinning in RU

[Scoopapa]

Lol Delibird...

I like muscle band on Lee, slashed it in before Life Orb.

There's a lot of pressure to include Armaldo, so I'm considering it, but I really want to avoid posting theorymon sets here, and I really don't have time to test everything (I've already personally tested most of the things up here) so help with that would really be appreciated. Just a little bit like "yeah I tried support armaldo and he got up rocks and spun well" or "I tried choice band armaldo and he died horribly every game without doing anything". I'm okay with it being somewhat outclassed by other things, considering that you have six pokemon and sometimes just don't want the type redundancies. Just so long as it's good. If you discover something that was suggested flat-out sucks, report that too, because that helps this thread be more helpful.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't post ideas for sets here, just don't expect them to end up in the OP unless you can vouch for their success (and they should make a bit of sense...I know it was a joke but sry no Delibird)

I'm also thinking of expanding this to include spin-blockers, as it's pretty relevant to "hey I need a spinner on my team, what can I use", which is sort of what the OP is meant to accomplish. Let me know what you guys think.

If anyone is looking for ideas of things to test (I know fat chance right?) Support Armaldo, CB Armaldo, and CB Kabutops seem like the most promising things not on this list.

@ HuntSaboteur: thunder punch could work, just make sure you have a really good way of punishing a claydol switch, as otherwise it's going to set up Stealth Rock in your face all day. Luckily claydol is pursuit weak, so something like honchkrow could work wonders. Toxic would work against waters and claydol, too, but doesn't do much to discourage yanmega which is arguably even more dangerous.

 

[HuntSaboteur]

Let's not forget the fact that about the only good thing Torkoal can do is counter Entei (kinda)

Two words - Stone Edge. Does Torkoal get EQ? Don't think so. Does Torkoal have decent attack? Don't think so. Does Torkoal therefore counter one of the best Pokemon of the meta? Don't think so.

PS. As I have trouble with water types, should I use Thunderpunch on Hitmonchan instead of another elemental punch?

 

[Chieliee]

Two words - Stone Edge.lol, adamant max attack choice band entei fails to 2hko max/max impish torkoal Does Torkoal get EQ? Don't think so. yes it fucking does, research things before you post. Does Torkoal have decent attack? Don't think so.it has 85 attack and 85 special attack. That's what I call decent. Does Torkoal therefore counter one of the best Pokemon of the meta? Don't think so. YES I FUCKING DO THINK SO

dude, seriously. These posts make you look stupid, which you probably aren't. Stop making them.

EDIT: Damn,:
4 Atk Torkoal Earthquake vs 4 HP/0 Def Entei: 39,25% - 46,24%
3 hits to KO

oh well.

EDIT2: Remember though, Stone Edge can miss and Torkoal can switch

 

[HuntSaboteur]

Yeah, ONLY Max/Max HP and defense. you understand. 85 is no longer decent. Entei has 115 and that is what I call decent.

 

[Scoopapa]

I must be missing something here:

CB Entei Stone Edge vs. 252/252+ Torkoal: 54.7% - 64.5%

By any definition Torkoal does not counter Entei. It is only a check. A recovery-less, SR weak check.

LO Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252/252+ Torkoal: 44.8% - 53.2%

Chance to 2HKO - KO with SR - KO with minor additional damage - Krow has recovery Koal doesn't.

Adamant Rhyperior vs... ok this one isn't necessary. Rhyperior rofl-stomps Torkoal because the latter is slower and barely tickles the former.

Torkoal does not do well vs. the metagame's biggest physical threats. This leaves it with very little to redeem itself considering it's SpD is bad, it's speed is bad, and it's attacking stats are mediocre. Use a different spinner and a different physical wall. Can we pretty please stop talking about Torkoal now? Honestly at this point it's logs or gtfo as far as Torkoal is concerned.

 

[Chieliee]

fuck my calcs were probably wrong lol. and no, I was not saying torkoal is good, I was just trying to get it at least ONE positive point... but meh, i failed =/

 

[WinstonShnozwick]

Lol Delibird...

I like muscle band on Lee, slashed it in before Life Orb.

There's a lot of pressure to include Armaldo, so I'm considering it, but I really want to avoid posting theorymon sets here, and I really don't have time to test everything (I've already personally tested most of the things up here) so help with that would really be appreciated. Just a little bit like "yeah I tried support armaldo and he got up rocks and spun well" or "I tried choice band armaldo and he died horribly every game without doing anything". I'm okay with it being somewhat outclassed by other things, considering that you have six pokemon and sometimes just don't want the type redundancies. Just so long as it's good. If you discover something that was suggested flat-out sucks, report that too, because that helps this thread be more helpful.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't post ideas for sets here, just don't expect them to end up in the OP unless you can vouch for their success (and they should make a bit of sense...I know it was a joke but sry no Delibird)

I'm also thinking of expanding this to include spin-blockers, as it's pretty relevant to "hey I need a spinner on my team, what can I use", which is sort of what the OP is meant to accomplish. Let me know what you guys think.

If anyone is looking for ideas of things to test (I know fat chance right?) Support Armaldo, CB Armaldo, and CB Kabutops seem like the most promising things not on this list.

@ HuntSaboteur: thunder punch could work, just make sure you have a really good way of punishing a claydol switch, as otherwise it's going to set up Stealth Rock in your face all day. Luckily claydol is pursuit weak, so something like honchkrow could work wonders. Toxic would work against waters and claydol, too, but doesn't do much to discourage yanmega which is arguably even more dangerous.

I've used a support armaldo to a lot of success in OU (physically defensive support), but I can't vouch for how effective it would be in the transition to RU. Just saying, it can stand up with the bigger boys. I do reccomend him. If you havent read my previous post yet of armaldo's plusses against sandslash, try it. Also to add, he can run a rock polish set if you don't like swsw damp rock. I do want to give my support for his usefullness though, he's a great mon.

I think spinblockers being added here would be a great idea! Rotom O sounds like a good one in this tier. And here's my little favorite..

I've got two sets for him, a low risk low reward, and a high risk high reward setup support set. This guy is seriously cool.

Drifblim (M) @ Chesto Berry (Low risk low reward)
Trait: Unburden
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 120 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Stockpile
- Rest
- Baton Pass


EV's: Set to maximize bulk for subs and then some for stockpile.
Moves: Stockpile and substitute should be activated whenever you can safely get in and do so, then chestorest for a soft reset, and finish your setup. Unburden kicks in and gives you almost 400 speed to safely baton pass out with the set up. Chestorest and high hp give you a higher guarentee of survival and being able to pass the boosts.

Drifblim (M) @ Starf Berry (high risk high reward)
Trait: Unburden
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 120 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Stockpile
- Disable
- Baton Pass

EV's: Same as above for the same reasons.
Moves: This goes a bit differently. You want to try to get a secure switch in with him, because he needs to be able to take a bit of a beating to make his setup safe. If you come in on a resist and force a switch, get a sub up for security. Otherwise, start stockpiling like crazy to avoid KO's, and if you have a chance for a sub after, take it. Keep subbing or stockpiling to activate staft berry (legal in GenV through dw), this is the most critical point of the set. You need the unburden to carry you safely out. Once you have obtained stockpiles and eaten the berry, you can baton pass out immediately if you feel dangered, but if not, use disable (outspeeding from unburden) to maybe force a switch, and then baton pass out.

Advantages/Disadvantages:
-First set is much safer, and in practice survives more. If you just want extra bulk, go with this, safe and secure. Chestorest is very useful, and in practice again, has even times given drifblim a second chance to set up and baton pass after the first time if needed. (minus resting, so running like the second set then)
-Second set is much more rewarding, and in practice is devastating if pulled off. Starf berry can give an attack boost, another defense boost, OR a +2 evasion boost. If you gain the +2 evasion boost and the stockpile defenses, you can probably win the game. (1 in 7 chance) Also, if your recieving pokemon wants opportunity to set up more, disable can force a switch, giving you more time.

You can find ample opportunities to switch in due to this magnificent typing resists. I know you may criticize due to taunt susceptibility, but many pokemon are only meant for support, just beware of taunt. Both of these can be successful, I personally developed them and tested them in RU successfully. He turns many pokemon into tanks able to set up, and as such is best passed to a crazy powerful sweeper or something that can set up. One thing to note, when you baton pass to a teammate, most opponents will try to toxic you to put you out of commision. I've found mega amounts of success if you pass to something that doesn't care about status. Of course if drifblims sub is still up from the pass (huge hp) there is status immunity for a few turns. But something such as eviolite duosion or my favorite personal set, harvest lum exeggutor, can then run down almost anything with huge bulk and the ability to flip toxic or burn the bird.

 

[Scoopapa]

Did some work on the spin-blockers. Would like suggestions as to the sets (and EV spreads) of the pokes who I don't have any sets for.

 

[Cloud 8]

Lets see spinblockers:

Shedinja could have a place considering spinning is a breeze in RU and weather is practically non-existant but is not very reliable considering the abundance of status in the metagame. Status also stops it from blocking Blastoise thanks to Toxic. However, I dont think any of the other spinners can hit it outside of toxic or a rare Fire Punch. This is a total theorymon so if anyone has tried it please tell.

Sableye: Outclassed by basically everything until Prankster is released.

Haunter could be interesting however with Sub+Disable. Unfortunately, Blastoise and the Hitmons generally run 2 moves that can hit Haunter. With Haunters low HP and Eviolite Subsplit may work but might be outclassed by Misdreavus.

Banette should never be used when Golurk is available

Lampents fire typing really hurts its spinblocking abilities and I would rather use Haunter.

Frillish could work in theory with its water typing giving it resistances to Blastoise, Cryogonal and any Fire punches from the Hitmons. It does have better defences than Jellicent with Eviolite and Recover gives instant recovery...

Those were all Theorymons though so if anybody has the time to test them or already has please discuss

 

[col49]

Shedinja could have a place considering spinning is a breeze in RU and weather is practically non-existant but is not very reliable considering the abundance of status in the metagame. Status also stops it from blocking Blastoise thanks to Toxic or Scald burns. However, I dont think any of the other spinners can hit it outside of toxic or a rare Fire Punch. This is a total theorymon so if anyone has tried it please tell.

Shedninja isn't getting burned by Scald, as Magic Guard prevents it from hitting, but considering most Blastoises carry Toxic that's more or less negligible.

Anywho, it this point I would like to call Cofragrigus one of the better, if not the best, spinblockers in RU. With his respectable bulk, decent supportive movepool and decent ability in Mummy, he can easily take a hit or two and counter with Wow, Shadow Ball, etc., or start setting up CM boosts. True Toxic cripples him, but with his bulk he can viably run Rest, possibly in a core with Heal Bell Clefable. Frillish is allow a pretty cool option that seems to be overlooked quite often, so that may deserve some looking into.

 

[No Luck Involved]

Frillish sounds promising, seen a few teams with it.

 

[Cloud 8]

Speaking of Frillish, a core of it and Ferroseed would be just as effective as Ferrocent in OU for the same reasons.

I would rather use Dusknoir over Cofagrigus unless running Calm Mind. There's only 10 base points of difference between the physical defense of the two as well as only having 26 more HP while, Dusknoir having exceptional special defense over Cofagrigusk's average. I would personally rather have greater special bulk than physcial bulk in a specially oriented metagame. I'm not sure how significant Mummy is when nothing would think to hit him with a physical move and it could end up biting your team in the ass. They also have similar movepools but Dusknoir is able to utilize Pain Split better with lower HP and slightly better defenses. Dusknoir also has a really good offensive prowress and physical movepool, even getting acces to Shadow Sneak.

 

[marilli]

Frillish? Frillish is really one of the best spinblockers I've ever used in RU. OK, I dare say the best defensive spinblocker is Frillish. Maybe it's because the fact that most Ghosts only have Rest / Pain Split--and that tends to be very unreliable.* Or you could say that's because Frillish is a very natural switch-in to all of Claydol, Blastoise, Hitmonchan, Cryogonal, etc. and the worst they can do back is Toxic. I had a fair bit of experience with Frillish, and she's really the integral part of my stall teams.

(*:yes, I'll need Aromatherapy/ Heal Bell support because anyways I'll get toxic'd all over by most blasty, claydol, etc. Still, if you're playing stall, your Yanmega counter is probably RestTalk Munchlax... and you really don't want to depend on two mons with Rest as their only recovery.)

EDIT: A simple set along the lines of

Frillish (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Taunt
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Night Shade / Scald

will do. Great special bulk, and stallbreaks opposing defensive team with few mons out of the way. Doubles as a bulky water with cool typing. Aromatherapy support is good but not necessary.

 

[Lunar Fist]

If you're looking for a Misdreavus set, try this one:

Misdreavus @ Eviolite
252 HP/252 Sp Def
-Heal Bell
-Pain Split
-Will-o-Wisp/Toxic
-Shadow Ball

This i the set I use because I want the heal bell support. Missy gets a lot of other nice moves like perish song, mean look, destiny bond, thunder wave and works as a nice counter to yanmega with the bug resist.

Will-o-Wisp helps against a lot of physical threats, especially if you can catch Honchkrow on the switch in. But you can also switch in to Rhyperior and just about any fighting type for the Wisp. You can also status other spinners to help wear them down. If they status you you can heal bell it off.

 

[Mike Legend]

Misdreavus is a good spin blocker. Eviolite gives it pretty decent defenses and it has a pretty good support movepool. Taunt + Will-O-Wisp is always effective, particularly against stall, and being able to burn Pursuit users already makes it harder to get spun against. Perish Song is pretty cool if you're running Misdreavus on full stall, as it allows you to defeat last mon threats such as Heal Bell Curse Miltank, and Rest Calm Mind Cresselia. Pain Split is also decent enough recovery with Misdreavus' low HP stat, though running a solid Wisher like Clefable reduces the need for this. With this said I think a 'standard' Misdreavus set would look something like this:

Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt / Pain Split / Heal Bell / Perish Song
- Taunt / Pain Split / Heal Bell / Perish Song

 

[Oglemi]

Standard Tanknoir is the way to go with Dusknoir:

[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Pain Split
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Fire Punch / ThunderPunch
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

You can go either physically or specially defensive here, and the last two slots are highly versatile thanks to Dusknoir's giant movepool. Earthquake is just all around a good move as always, but in this tier it could probably be replaced with Fire Punch. Fire Punch is nice to nail the Bugs + Ferroseed and Tangela, ThunderPunch is for Blastoise and friends, and Shadow Sneak is nice for STAB and picking off Sharpedo or Yanmega that are pretty beat up (read: extremely), but it's always nice to be packing an extra priority move especially on a mon that doesn't need much more than just the first two slots of its movepool to work.

 

[Nanoswine]

There's a new spinblocker in town.

Sableye @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def, Calm
PRANKSTER
-Will-O-Wisp
-Taunt
-Night Shade / Toxic
-Recover

With Blastoise moving up to UU, this guy walls the living hell out of every other spinner. The best Claydol and Cryogonal can do is Toxic him on the switch, and every other spinner is physically based so he can just hit them with a priority WoW. Not only that, but he serves huge utility outside of just spinblocking, he can effectively deal with Cresselia, Alakazam (all the more important now), and most set-up sweepers. I really can't wait to see this guy in play, he seems to be pretty awesome atm.

 

[Lady Shinki]

Sableye will probably fall out of RU almost immediately: its ability is what makes it useful, but it will be at the very least UU when the next round of statistics takes the newly released Dream World abilities into account.

In the meantime though, sableye can go die in a fire because it is GOOD.

 

[Cloud 8]

There's a new spinblocker in town.

Sableye @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def, Calm
PRANKSTER
-Will-O-Wisp
-Taunt
-Night Shade / Toxic
-Recover

With Blastoise moving up to UU, this guy walls the living hell out of every other spinner. The best Claydol and Cryogonal can do is Toxic him on the switch, and every other spinner is physically based so he can just hit them with a priority WoW. Not only that, but he serves huge utility outside of just spinblocking, he can effectively deal with Cresselia, Alakazam (all the more important now), and most set-up sweepers. I really can't wait to see this guy in play, he seems to be pretty awesome atm.

Damn, I thought it wasnt released. He will be really groundbreaking in RU. Its ridiculously good. I have no idea why I havent seen any yet. Taunt is really anti-metagame and can give Sableye free turns to do everything.

 

[No Luck Involved]

Holy crap Sableye is released.

 

[LeviLamprey]

SABLEYE IS RELEASED? PARY INTO THE NIGHT~
No, but seriously, this thing is an amazing spinblocker. I've tried it (on a DW tier) and the capacity it has to fully cripple the Spinners/Set Up enemies is outstanding. Switch into a Spin, Taunt/WoW/Toxic depending on the enemy and situation, then go to town, or simply take the chance to switch to a counter (though as the enemy often switches here an all-round Pokemon is most useful). AND it kills Cresselia the lifebane as a bonus!(not to mention the rarely seen miscellaneous boost sweepers, as Cloud 8 said).

Also, I tested Torkoal and it seems great on paper but it just DOESN'T get off the ground! I had more success with my PINECO than with this. As much as I love the fiery tortoise, once it's Spun it's either too wounded to attack again or switch out (eg. VS Entei) or it has nothing to hurt the enemy with (outside of gimmick WoW and Toxic), for example, when facing Cresselia. I'll admit it has a few offensive options, but there's simply no time to KO a foe not named Yanmega or Cryogonal after Koal has Spun the hazards away.

 

[Scoopapa]

Okay, the spin-blockers section is more or less "complete", except of course for contributions by the community.

 

[Nanoswine]

I'd max SpD on Sableye instead of defense. It allows him to not only take on the spinners, but also Yanmega and Cress (and maybe Porygon-Z?). Will-o-Wisp does a good job of covering his physical side anyways.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Most people i've seen using Torkoal run it as part of a dual spin core along side 3 Flyings and that has the ability to be very effective.

 

[Lady Shinki]

Ironically, I think Torkoal will gain a lot of temporary popularity as a stall-team rapid spinner if only because it can switch in easily on most Sableye. RestTalk with Plume and Rapid Spin solves its longevity issue, and although it can be switched in to easily, its teammates can cover its other issues, as Lava Plume has good overall utility. The only other spinners that don't really suffer from burn is Cryogonal, and Torkoal has the advantage of having a good chance to stall out sableye due to the high chance of a burn.