How exactly is Torkoal going to RestTalk against Sableye's (priority) taunt?
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Spinning in RU
- Thread starter Scoopapa
- Start date
It won't, but it handles most of sableye's common offensive options, and can aim for a burn vs. most sets (or burn something else that switches in after Sableye spinblocks). Most sableye run will-o-wisp and confuse ray (or an attacking move) alongside taunt and recover, and odds are in your favor that getting a burn will force it to recover and give you time to spin or do more to it since its main method of residual damage is ineffective against it.
That, and if you don't have a Sub up as much as possible with Sableye, you're doing it wrong. And good luck Stalling out a burn (if you somehow do get one...) when Sableye has Recover.
How is Torkoal going to work at all? Taunt stops you from recovering, Recover will easily outstall (even if you get lucky with a burn), and all the while he whitles down your HP in no time at all with Night Shade/Seismic Toss. Even if Sableye's Taunt wares off and he is forced to recover instead of re-taunt, Torkoal doesn't learn Foresight or Odor Sleuth to even take advantage of Rapin Spid.
It seems your relying on Sableye to carry Confuse Ray over NS/ST, which only a small amount do, and even then your only reliable way of recovery is leftovers.
It seems your relying on Sableye to carry Confuse Ray over NS/ST, which only a small amount do, and even then your only reliable way of recovery is leftovers.
So I took CB Armaldo for a spin (no pun intended), and I discovered that while it's actually a good pokemon, it's not really a good spinner. I guess I could add it, but basically it's only good as a last ditch check against having massive amounts of layers stacked against you... it will rarely find time to keep the odd SR at bay. Still, that STAB X-scissor is actually better in practice than I had figured in theory, and luring and KOing Blastoise is always nice. Grass neutrality is also a nice advantage over many mons with whom Armaldo competes. I haven't tried Life Orb, but I know from the damage calculator that you miss out on a whole boatload of 2hkoes by forgoing the Choice Band (not to mention nice bulk). People tend to assume that Armaldo is one of those physical mons with shit Special Defense but base 80 isn't too shabby.
Armaldo also gets pretty decent overall bulk if sandstorm is up somehow, with the nice sp def boost.
How about rock polish?
Agreed. Bulk is much more important then Speed in RU too so Id much rather have Swords Dance and max HP EVs. This allows it to set up on things like Porygon-Z but this isnt the Armaldo discussion thread ;)
WHY are people still trying to promote Torkoal as a candidate for the OP? If you want to use it as a Spinner, then b all means, but there are much better things for it to be doing. A troll set (Fire Spin set from Advance Gen or Toxistall+Amnesia), a Specs set even, or a classic set up set, or even a SHELL SMASH set are all preferable. It's never going to be top tier at anything it does, but at least it has usability and direction when using one of those specialised sets. Like I said, use it if you want but it's not getting recognised as THE STRONGEST anytime soon.
Also, Armaldo is a fairly good offensive spinner able to check common threats with a Choice Band or Life Orb when hazards are no longer up, and I recommend people with strong Water and Rock resists on their team to try it out.
Also, Armaldo is a fairly good offensive spinner able to check common threats with a Choice Band or Life Orb when hazards are no longer up, and I recommend people with strong Water and Rock resists on their team to try it out.
I tried running SD Armaldo with max HP and Life Orb as people suggested and I really wasn't impressed. It is easier to spin, but it goes from viable pokemon who has some trouble spinning to "wtf is this doing on my team... I guess I'll sack it when there's an attack I can't take". Despite generalities such as "bulk is better than speed in RU" I found my max speed CB set to be way more useful. Also, RU is a really slow metagame and going from 126 speed to 207 is quite significant in terms of breaking down walls. Also, that 21% more HP you gain from adding HP instead of speed is negated and then some after you've used 2 attacks (including Rapid Spin) so it's not that significant (basically the reason Life Orb sucks on slow mons to begin with).
I noticed Heysup has been using Torkoal on his main team. I don't know if he cares to argue its case here but it would be interesting if he did. Considering this thread is basically the "spinning in RU / torkoal sucks" thread at this point. I think we have as many posts about Torkoal as the Torkoal thread does (although a higher % of those are about how much he sucks). If I catch him on PO I might ask him about that.
I noticed Heysup has been using Torkoal on his main team. I don't know if he cares to argue its case here but it would be interesting if he did. Considering this thread is basically the "spinning in RU / torkoal sucks" thread at this point. I think we have as many posts about Torkoal as the Torkoal thread does (although a higher % of those are about how much he sucks). If I catch him on PO I might ask him about that.
I'd definitely run Lefties / Lum on SD Armaldo. It's too slow to be wielding Life Orb imo. The point of making Armaldo bulky is to take hits, which LO is undermining. Swords Dance will provide the power it needs.
However, CB Armaldo definitely sounds legit. Probably not ideal for a Rapid Spinner, but probably more ideal as a physical tank that dish hits hard from the get-go.
However, CB Armaldo definitely sounds legit. Probably not ideal for a Rapid Spinner, but probably more ideal as a physical tank that dish hits hard from the get-go.