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Spiritomb (BW2 Revamp) (QC 2/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Spirit, May 12, 2013.

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  1. Spirit

    Spirit
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    [​IMG]

    Spiritomb

    [Overview]
    • best spin blocker in RU
    • very bulky and great defensive typing gives it no weakness
    • low speed and lack of reliable recovery hurt
    [SET]
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Sucker Punch
    move 2: Shadow Sneak
    move 3: Pursuit
    move 4: Trick / Return
    item: Choice Band / Black Glasses
    ability: Pressure
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • takes full advantage of spiritomb's priority attacks
    • Sucker Punch can OHKO pokemon like archeops and moltres after SR
    • Shadow Sneak is weaker, but more reliable as it can revenge kill Pokemon like Gallade and Medicham
    • Pursuit takes out any pokemon attempting to flee, forcing a lot of offensive pressure
    • Trick is used with CB to cripple walls such as Steelix
    • Return to hit Dark-types
    • Black Glasses is weaker but a safer option as CB sucker punch is setup bait

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Good Partners such as Poliwrath and Slowking can beat the fire-types that trouble this set
    • Fire-types such as Magmortar and Moltres can melt away at pesky steel-types
    • Fighting-types such as the hitmons can do the same and provide rapid spin support
    • Kabutops can provide spin support and set up entry hazards such as Stealth Rock so that Spiritomb can OHKO Moltres and Archeops after SR with sucker Punch
    • Qwilfish can also provide hazard support in the form of Spikes and take on Entei and Emboar
    • Leftovers and Foul Play both acceptable options.

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Foul Play
    move 3: Rest / Pain Split
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Shadow Sneak / Pursuit
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Pressure
    nature: Careful
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • best fits on balanced / stall teams
    • Will-O-Wisp Cripples Physical attackers
    • Foul Play allows it to beat Kabutops
    • Rest-talk is the most reliable form of healing
    • Pain split can be sued over rest as it frees up an extra move slot
    • Sucker Punch helps it beat entei
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • evs allow it to take beat cryogonal
    • Rapid Spin support from Cryogonal to keep it from getting worn out
    • Wish Support from clefable and alomomola to keep it healthy
    • Clefable can also provide cleric support to remove status and SR support
    • Roselia, Qwilfish, and Crustle can set up spikes to wear it the opposing team faster
    • In return, spiritomb keeps the hazards from being blown away

    [SET]
    name: CroTomb
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Calm Mind
    move 4: Dark Pulse
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    ivs: 0 Atk

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Both of spiritomb's abilities can work with this set
    • Pressure can be used stall
    • infiltrator can get past screens easier
    • Dark Pulse is chosen because no pokemon is immune to it
    • Rest-talk allows it to boost and stay healthy
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Steel-types need to be removed
    • Moltres, Gallade, Hariyama, Emboar can all do just that
    • Fighting-types need to be taken out as well
    • Slowking, Uxie, and Qwilfsih can all deal with them

    [Other Options]
    • Snarl
    • Taunt
    • Hypnosis
    • Nasty Plot
    • Destiny Bond
    • Toxic
    • Curse + Pain Split
    • All-Out Attacker
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Mandibuzz
    • Qwilfish
    • Steelix
    • Aggron
    • Walrein beats defensive sets
    • Poliwrath, Escavalier, and Durant beat the offensive set, though they must watch out for Will-O-Wisp
    • Emboar
    • Klinklang
    • Magneton
  2. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    I'm not on QC, but I honestly don't think the All-Out Attacker set that great. It seems extremely reliant on switch-ins to the point where you need to predict what the opponent will send out to deal with opponents. Most of the Fighting-types out there don't even defeat Spiritomb in the first place, Psychic or not, as Hitmonchan, Hariyama, Gallade, Primeape, Medicham, and Hitmonlee can't do anything to it regardless, and the latter two can't even use their main STABs when Spiritomb is alive due to the risk of 50% recoil from HJK, so really the only things you lure in with Psychic are Emboar (who can OHKO you with a Band so you need to use Psychic on the switch), Amoonguss (Regenerator takes care of the unexpected Psychic damage), and Qwilfish. That means the only real thing you lure in are Steel-types thanks to HP Fire, which fairly useful admittedly, but Durant will hit you hard before it gets hit itself, and Escavalier can probably OHKO Spiritomb with Megahorn, while Spiritomb only manages a 2HKO, meaning it only really becomes definite against Steelix.

    Both moves are probably OO worthy.
  3. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Logs:

    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-18430991

    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-18431534

    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-18432168

    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-18450401

    I'm sorry but this ladder is shit. It's way too hard trying to find good players.

    As you can see, this thing lures in Pokemon who normally don't give a shit about Spiritomb, then tomb just destroys them. The best part is, due to its coverage, it isn't setup bait to steel-types. In the course of these matches HP Fighting >>> HP Fire, just b/c I would have maimed aggron and stopped bouffo from getting a sub. I honestly do feel this set deserves an analysis because of its ability to take away most of offensive Spiritomb's flaws, not to mention it's a great pivot.
  4. Oglemi

    Oglemi We broke it. Yes, we were naughty. Completely naughty.
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    No the Ebelt set is terrible. I don't understand what it's supposed to do after playing with it for about 15 matches, and the logs you have are absolutely horrible and don't prove anything (opponent switching tomb into alo, another switching lee into tomb). You say it's to lure things in that normally can set up on tomb and beat them, but most of the things still beat it because tomb is so slow. And if your opponent doesn't really have anything that this tomb is meant to beat, it's really just a waste of a teamslot because it hits like a wet paper towel.

    Remove it and put it in OO.

    The rest looks ok to me

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  5. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    Mention Leftovers and Foul Play in the AC of the offensive set as well imo. Although Spiritomb really loves the extra power of Choice Band and Blackglasses, the passive recovery from Leftovers can also be very useful imo, making sure it doesn't get worn down as quickly from repeated attacks and switching in and out. As for Foul Play, despite the larger amount of investment on the offensive set, hitting things such as CB Entei way harder than your other STAB Attacks is still incredibly useful, and it warrants an AC mention imo.

    Implement this and Oglemi's changes and you can consider this

    QC Approved 2/3
  6. Spirit

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    Okay, I removed it and made Molk's changes. I'll write this up asap.
  7. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    Mention Return in AC of the first set. It's good because of Spiritomb's awful coverage issues, and lets it be a check to a couple more things like Crawdaunt and Drapion kinda. It also gives you a reliable move to use if you don't want to play the Sucker Punch/Pursuit mindgame against Cryogonal.

    Also in that set, mention that CB is best on more stallish teams, because being locked into Sucker Punch or Pursuit is a prime setup opportunity for a lot of dangerous mons, and a lot of offensive teams rely on certain mons not setting up, as opposed to stall which can just counter it. This means that BlackGlasses is better on more offensive teams.
  8. august

    august free the robots
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    why is the defensive set running so much defense? honestly i really think spiritomb needs pretty much max special defense in order to take on cryogonal (the spinner that you should be aiming to beat, since kabutops WILL win regradless) and stuff like offensive sigilyph, accelgor etc. you have foul play + will o wisp to discourage strong physical attackers from coming into spiritomb for free so yeah you should be running max/near max special defense imo.

    avoiding the 2hko from offensive cryo means it will still beat you. it will force you to rest then force you out and rinse wash and repeat. the current spread doesnt BEAT any spinner.

    slash return for 4th slot on all out attacker

    infiltrator is really situational. it should be pressure

    im not really sure this even NEEDS a revamp lol
  9. DittoCrow

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    Talked with august and here are some more changes.

    [Overview]

    • It's not the best spinblocker since it loses to the most common spinner, Kabutops.
    • I wouldn't say that it is incredibly versatile. It only has a few coverage moves and Will-O-Wisp.
    • There's only 1 common Steel-type that sets up on Spiritomb which is Aggron, so I would omit that part.

    [Physical Attacker]
    • Don't mention Archeops and Moltres. Archeops isn't that good and Moltres can just avoid it by using Roost.
    • Shadow Sneak is in fact very important because this is the best way to counter Gallade.
    • Return should be slashed since it is a great way, especially with Blackglasses, to deal with Cryogonal and not be setup bait for Absol and Crawdaunt.
    • Foul Play should probably be on the set, we haven't come to a conclusion yet.

    [Defensive]
    • Main spread should have max HP and SpDef to better deal with Cryogonal, CM Sigilyph / Uxie / Mesprit, and Specs Slowking.

    Seriously doubting CroTomb's viability as well. It's extremely hard to set up and there are a lot of options to deal with it after the fact, like Taunt, Haze, Trick, and Frost Breath.

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Entei should be removed since it takes a ton of damage from Sucker Punch / Foul Play.
    • Klinklang and Magneton shouldn't really be talked about imo since they're uncommon and below average mons, but we'll see what everyone else thinks.
    • Poliwrath, Escavalier, and Durant are good counters to the offensive set.
    • Walrein counters the defensive one with Roar.

    I do not think this is ready for approval. This post was just a preliminary list of changes and I think august will have more soon as well. This might even be able to be updated via the SCMS.
  10. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    @august, while I do agree Pressure is generally better, Infiltrator should at least be mentioned in AC to beat Reflect Cryo, which can prove to be useful to beat stall teams...
  11. Spirit

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    Yeah, it's not the best spinblocker overall. But Kabutops beats everything. The statement seems pretty accurate since it's the best spin blocker in RU. Unless I'm missing something? All of the other changes have been made though.

    But an entire set needs to be changed, not to mention all of changes going on in the physical attacker set. I can't find a reason why a revamp isn't needed to reflect that.


    August, Ernesto summed it up pretty well as to why Infiltrator should stay on the offensive set.
  12. august

    august free the robots
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    ernesto said mention it in ac. pressure should be the main ability.

    also remove the overview that spiritomb is one of the best priority users in RU. sucker punch is ridiculously inconsistent and shadow sneak is weak.
  13. Koinzell

    Koinzell

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    On the defensive set, please remove Shadow Sneak. And really, you shouldn't even mention it in AC, uninvested Shadow Sneak is just that useless (for reference, you're weaker than Dusknoir). Pursuit is also a little iffy, since Pain Split Spiritomb loses to Slowking or Toxic Cryo and the damage you're dealing to Uxie is so underwhelming that you might as well just try to catch a switch with Foul Play / Will-O-Wisp.

    Imo, there is only one move that is worth not having Rest/Talk and that move is Sucker Punch. Sucker Punch has twice the BP of Shadow Sneak and it gets the job done. Foul Play + Sucker Punch is a pretty potent combo that can 2HKO Entei or Magmortar (Stealth Rock needed) before they can attack Tomb. Sucker Punch alone deals in the 70% to Offensive Cryo and allows Spiritomb to be a lot safer against stuff like King's Rock Cincinno. In the AC of the set, please mention that without Rest/Talk running max physical Def is the way to go. Pain Split Spiritomb is pretty bad at spinblocking Cryogonal anyway, and running Impish means you beat Lum Berry Kabutops and Sword Dance Sandslash.
  14. DittoCrow

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    Everything besides the defensive set just needs minor updating and can be done via the SCMS. I'm thinking you should create a separate thread just for the defensive set. Also I believe that Shadow Sneak does deserve an AC mention on the defensive set. It's good if Spiritomb is weakened so it can pick off Gallade and weakened foes, I've seen it work before. I guess we can QC the set later if other QC members agree to split it.

    QC REJECTED 1/3
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